peek 20 #1 March 15, 2005 I'm posting this because of another thread in this forum where a rig owner seemed to imply that one shouldn't care how difficult/easy a reserve is to pack because they won't be packing it - their Rigger will. My question to Riggers is: With attitudes like this, why aren't you charging more for these difficult to pack rigs? For you non-riggers out there, I think one of these days soon, Riggers are going to wise up and start charging for your "don't care about the Rigger" atitude. (Just my guess, I'm not suggesting it.) I asked a question on the newsgroup rec.skydiving a while back when more people were reading there. I asked if they wanted their rig to be tight enough to look good, or as tight and small as it could possibly be. I got only one response of the latter. If most people want their rigs to be only tight enough to look good, then where are all of the extremely tight and difficult to pack rigs coming from, and why? I guess I could ask this question again, here. Tight or RF tight? Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #2 March 15, 2005 I think your right people do take their rigger for granted, I really don't care how it looks as long as it opens when I need in and not before Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #3 March 15, 2005 Because it's unethical and just wrong. Besides there are no hard to pack rigs just lots of riggers who do not know any tricks to make them pack easy,Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #4 March 15, 2005 QuoteBecause it's unethical and just wrong. Charging what the market will support is unethical and wrong? I don't think so.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 March 15, 2005 I do charge more for rigs I KNOW will take longer or be harder. Like a Preserve V pilot rig. But, most of the time I don't know how hard a rig will be before hand. If I've done it and it's that hard I probably told the jumper to go somewhere else. It's hard not to quote a price or charge different prices for one wings versus another. In addition hard to pack is relative. Until I figure it out it may be hard, then it may fall together. I charge an "average" price. Some I probably could charge less. i.e. I can through mine together in about 20 minutes. Some I have to repack several times to meet my standards. Those I lose out on but it all averages out. Of course I also threaten to quit rigging after one of those rigs. I have insisted has hard as I could that some jumpers asking me for advice on new gear go up a container size so they weren't on the ragged edge of what might fit.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #6 March 15, 2005 Gear discrimination is unethical to me. I charge the same whatever the rig is.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 March 15, 2005 That wasn't clear before. Thanks.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,069 #8 March 15, 2005 QuoteI asked if they wanted their rig to be tight enough to look good, or as tight and small as it could possibly be. I'd like it packed so that it works, please.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #9 March 15, 2005 I'll second that. I'll go up a container size to avoid a reserve PCIT caused by an excessively tight container. Or down a reserve size. Or both. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #10 March 15, 2005 I know multiple riggers that charge more for Racers and one that even charges more for a Reflex.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #11 March 15, 2005 When I bought my rig, I joked about the reserve packing PITA (Racer container) being more the rigger's problem than mine. But my rigger is awesome, I pay him $20 more and drive 2 hours farther to get to him than another rigger at a closer dropzone. He's worth every penny since his work may one day save my ass. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #12 March 15, 2005 QuoteBecause it's unethical and just wrong. Besides there are no hard to pack rigs just lots of riggers who do not know any tricks to make them pack easy, Have you ever packed the head box of an F-18 seat? How about the seat pack out of a Drawken? Or an NB-12 with a spreader gun? Not all rigs are created equal, some are easy, some are hard and some should be taken off the market. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #13 March 15, 2005 I don't have a seat rating. Again I charge the same for all back rigs.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #14 March 15, 2005 QuoteI don't have a seat rating. Again I charge the same for all back rigs. An NB-12 is a back rig. It will take you 6 to 8 hours to pack. The F-18 head box is considered a back rig and it will take you two days to pack. Because you charge the same for all rigs does not make other riggers who don't "unethical". SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #15 March 15, 2005 We can go on forever on this one. A rigger who charges more to pack a Racer or Refelx for instance is in my eyes unethical.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #16 March 15, 2005 QuoteWe can go on forever on this one. A rigger who charges more to pack a Racer or Refelx for instance is in my eyes unethical. I don't charge different rates for different rigs but,... I had a timing belt changed in my 2000 celica and the mechanic charged me $590. I also had a timing belt replaced in a 1996 Ford 150 and it was only $429. Was this mechanic unethical to me? Re-lines cost different amounts on different capopies. Different jobs=different costs. While I don't charge any different, I don't necessarily think it's "unethical". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 March 15, 2005 QuoteA rigger who charges more to pack a Racer or Refelx for instance is in my eyes unethical. Why? _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #18 March 15, 2005 Unethical or not, if the customer doesnt like it... There's the door! Walk into any automotive garage in the country and you are likely to see a sign that says "labor rate computed by flat hourly rate or clocked hours". "Yeah capitalism" Charge what you want, and so will everyone else. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #19 March 15, 2005 QuoteI know multiple riggers that charge more for Racers and one that even charges more for a Reflex. and that is where it all becomes subjective. I work for Jump Shack and have packed 17 racers in the last 5 days. I also packed two Javelin Oddities and after the second one, said this (and I quote)"Okay, I'm current on fucking Javelins now, can I go back to Racers please?" I don't get many Quasars to pack, and after every one I feel like it's me versus Ted Strong ... I don't charge more for them because they're difficult to me, I'm sure a Strong Enterprises rigger could do one in 2/3rds the time it takes me....... I consider it checks and balances, and I too have a flat rate.Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #20 March 16, 2005 I charge the same price, no matter what the harness-container. I've found, where the money is, is in repairs. My main concern is to be fair with my pricing. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 March 16, 2005 Quote With attitudes like this, why aren't you charging more for these difficult to pack rigs? I guess I could ask this question again, here. Tight or RF tight? Why? OK 1st I'm not a rigger or even a packer. But from my understanding none of the rigs on the market are "hard" to pack. Some are just packed less by some riggers so the techinique is not as refined as for some other rigs. With the right technique and equipment they should all be much of a muchness. ($0.02)You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #22 March 16, 2005 Quotethere are no hard to pack rigs just lots of riggers who do not know any tricks to make them pack easy, Quite true, however I think there is great value in a rig that does not require knowledge of 'tricks', at least for those of us that cannot pack our own. We don't always get to choose our rigger, and a rig that is more demanding of procedures or technique is more vulnerable to errors.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #23 March 16, 2005 QuoteOK 1st I'm not a rigger or even a packer. But from my understanding none of the rigs on the market are "hard" to pack. Even a great rig can hard to pack in certain conditions. I love my Mirage, but when you take it and use a canopy size rated as very tihgt, a canopy that is actually bulkier than normal for that size due to structural reenforement and pack it in desert conditions, you end up with a very difficult pack job. As a general rule, any simple task can be made hard if you throw enough adverse factors at it. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KevinMcGuire 0 #24 March 16, 2005 Any rigger who charges more just because they find one rig harder to pack than another, is really just charging you more because they are not a good rigger. If all the pieces of a puzzle are present and you still can't figure it out, is it the puzzles fault? It is no different with rigging. I have packed roughly 7,500 reserves over the course of my career and I will go on record as saying that I doubt there is a rig on the market currently sold or from the distant past that I have not packed at least once. I believe that every rig has it's secret as to how to make it look good and how to pack it easily. All one has to do is have the patience to find that secret. It is as simple as that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #25 March 16, 2005 QuoteAny rigger who charges more just because they find one rig harder to pack than another, is really just charging you more because they are not a good rigger. Bull. They are charging you more because they feel it is worth it. I know a rigger who can pack "X" brand rig beautifuly. I mean they look great. He doesn't like them, their construction, or the way they pack. So he tells people this and says "I really don't want to pack that." When people have insisted (because he has a great reputation for doing good work) he tells them it will cost more. Some people pay it, some don't. Calling him unethical for that is uncalled for.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
