Football question

[JohnRich 4]

I'm not much of a football fan, but due to a slow TV night, I was watching the Cowboys-Giants game last night.

The game ending was a real nail-biter, with only seconds remaining in the game, Dallas kicked a game-tying field goal. But somehow, NY was allowed to call a time-out from the sidelines, after that kick play had already been set in motion, and this time-out nullified the game-tying field goal. That left just one second on the clock, and the 2nd field goal attempt by Dallas was blocked - the Giants win.

What the hell kind of rule is that? Once a play is in motion, a time-out should not be allowed to stop or reverse whatever happens during that play. It seems to me the game should have ended in a tie, resulting in an overtime period.

Someone please explain this to me.

[normiss 622]

Time out was called by the coach on the sideline.
One second prior to the play clock running out.
Perfect timing for the ice.
I love to see Dallas lose.

[piisfish 135]

Handegg rules are pretty difficult to grasp, but we sometimes love it too

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[wildcard451 0]

That play is not what caused Dallas to lose. The lack of a secondary, and the lack of a clutch quarterback and the amazing ability to hold onto a lead like a greased pig caused them to lose the game.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

It's called "icing the kicker."

The timeout is called from the sidelines a split second before the play starts. As you argue, once the play is in motion, the play must continue.
But in this case, the timeout is called just before the play starts and the players aren't aware of it, so the play continues. The kicker is often aware that timeout has been called, but they usually prefer not to interrupt their kick.

It's regularly argued by the commentators as to whether on not it is fair, or if the rules should be changed.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires. It's funny as all hell to see the kick after timeout was called miss, and then the "real" one be good.
Last weekend, someone (I want to say it was the Cowboys, but I'm probably wrong) called timeout on themselves just as the play started. The kick that didn't count was good. The subsequent kick, the one that counted, wasn't.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,145]

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Last weekend, someone (I want to say it was the Cowboys, but I'm probably wrong) called timeout on themselves just as the play started. The kick that didn't count was good. The subsequent kick, the one that counted, wasn't.

Yup, that was indeed the Cowboys and the same kicker. They say that statistically "icing" the kicker doesn't work, but it seems to affect this kicker...

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Last week the kicker was attempting a very long 'edge of his range' kick. Maybe bad luck he made the first one and not the second, maybe he didn't have the leg strength to do it twice in a row so close together.
Last night he didn't miss, his blockers did.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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The game ending was a real nail-biter, with only seconds remaining in the game, Dallas kicked a game-tying field goal. But somehow, NY was allowed to call a time-out from the sidelines, after that kick play had already been set in motion, and this time-out nullified the game-tying field goal.

In rugby play only stops when the ball goes out of bounds, there's a penalty, or some one gets hurt. It does not stop to let the players catch their breath after a tackle. It definitely does not stop when a coach whines. That makes the game more exciting than American football but less suitable for television (the abbreviated sevens variant with seven players not fifteen and seven minute halves instead of forty might work).

[MikeJD 0]

You beat me to it.

[JohnRich 4]

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It's called "icing the kicker..."

Thanks for that straight answer, wolfman.

[lawrocket 3]

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The timeout is called from the sidelines a split second before the play starts. As you argue, once the play is in motion, the play must continue.
But in this case, the timeout is called just before the play starts and the players aren't aware of it, so the play continues. The kicker is often aware that timeout has been called, but they usually prefer not to interrupt their kick.

This particular breed of icing the kicker was created by then Broncos Head Coach and former Raiders Head Coach (and present Redskins Head Coach) Mike Shanahan. Early in the 2007 season, my beloved Raiders were playing the Broncos (contrary to popular lore, there was actually a Denver Broncos team between when Elway the Beatified retired and when Saint Tim Tebow was chosen by God to vanquish all Evil and lead the Broncos to the promised land by being the Divine Saint of the Quarterback Who Can’t Throw a 7-yard out) and the game went into overtime. A certain fat ass with a cannon leg named Sebastian “SeaBass” Janikowski (not theonlyski – with whom he is confused quite frequently) lined up for a 52 yard field goal to win the game.

Note that Shanahan and the Raiders (particularly Al Davis) had what one would call a hate-hate relationship. Shanahan liked nothing better than to fuck with the Raiders and their owner. (Anybody notice that Tebow became successful only after Al Davis died, adding further credence to my personal belief that Tebow is the Antichrist, who fully emerged following the death of the one man with enough power to hold his evil at bay. I mean, Tebow doesn’t throw many interceptions because he is so inaccurate but is winning on the basis of unusual fumbles where Beelzebub himself smites footballs out of opposing players’ hands in closing minutes of games). Shanahan was known to order his backup quarterbacks to throw “errant” passes at the head of an 80 year-old man using a walker.

For a more fundamental knowledge, there are several things that must occur for a field goal. First, the long snapper cannot choke. It happens (google “Trey Junkin”). Next, the holder must catch the snap, place the hold and turn the laces away. (Many think it’s easy, but just ask Tony Romo). Then, of course, the kicker must not choke and miss the kick. It’s usually the kicker who will choke. Scott “Wide Right” Norwood is credited with a famous choke, but it was a 47 yard field goal to win the Super Bowl. On top of that, there must be blocking.

Now, 52 yards is well within Seabass’ range. But Shanahan is an asshole. It used to be that to ice kickers, a head coach on the other team would call a time out. It makes the kicker overthink the kick. But Shanahan thought it’d be fun to call a timeout a split second before the snap. He did. Snap tight. Hold solid. Kick true. But no play because of the timeout. When rekicked, the kick was a miss, and the Broncos went on to win.

Such a tactic was a bushleague move that worked. It became a standard. Sometimes, however, a coach will call it and the timeout nullifies a kick that missed. Coaches hate those. But sometimes it works, as well. As you saw.

I’d like to see the move banned myself.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sacex250 0]

"Icing the Kicker" has been going on for decades. I don't why you're giving Shanahan so much credit for it.

In fact, in 2005 the NFL banned the use of consecutive time-outs to ice the kicker making it a fifteen yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, something that Joe Gibbs was embarrassingly reminded of in 2007.

It's all been said before, no sense repeating it here.

[lawrocket 3]

That's why I called it "This particular breed of icing the kicker." Shanahan was the asshole who came up with "call timeout right as the snap is occuring"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AndyBoyd 0]

I hate icing the kicker. My 2 cents -- the rule should be that if a team lines up for a field goal and everyone is set for the snap, and the defense calls time-out, the time-out is allowed, but the ball is moved 5 yards closer to the goal line. That would stop this stupidity at the end of the games.

Full disclosure -- I am a Cowboys fan. Yes, 2 weeks ago, the Cowboys coach inadvertently iced his own kicker and it (partially) cost the Cowboys the game. This Sunday, it worked for the Giants coach. But I have seen coaches do this and the first kick goes wide, but the second one is good. The move can backfire.

[piisfish 135]

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You beat me to it.

so did you enjoy the way europeans like it ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[popsjumper 2]

I agree with the tactic. It is part of the game to 'ice" the kicker. When time-out is called has no bearing on the rules. The closer to the kick it's called, the more it affects the kicker, IMO.

Well, there are exceptions.
Early Buccaneers...Derek Smethurst, the kicker.
It didn't matter when time-out was called. He was going to blow it anyway. Hell, most opponents didn't bother to waste a time-out.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Early Buccaneers...Derek Smethurst, the kicker.
It didn't matter when time-out was called. He was going to blow it anyway.

Those early Buccaneers? like their first two seasons in the league where they lost virtually every game? Haha ... it wasn't just the kicker who blew it. The entire team blew.

I am not a fan of icing the kicker since it already turns the last two minutes of the game into a long affair. But it is what it is and the rules allow it. I always laugh when the time out is called at the very last second where the kick was made anyway and missed (even though it didn't count). Then after the time out, the kicker makes the kick to win the game after being so called "iced" by the other team. These guys are supposed to be pros. Time outs are not supposed to effect them. Of course they are human mistakes are made. Just remember "Keep the Laces Out".

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[popsjumper 2]

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Those early Buccaneers? like their first two seasons in the league where they lost virtually every game? Haha ... it wasn't just the kicker who blew it. The entire team blew. .

Yep. 26 in a row. The Saints will forever go down in history as the team that broke the streak.


It was tough to be a Bucs fan.

Well, honestly, it still is.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[PLFKING 3]

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Early Buccaneers

I was on the phone a couple weeks ago. ESPN on the TV with the sound muted. I happened to glance at the TV and saw the Bucs on the field wearing their old 1970's uniforms.

My first thought......"This must be ESPN Instant Classic."

My second thought......"Which '70s Tampa Bay team ever played a game that would be considered 'Classic'-worthy ?"

I then saw the other team and realized TB was wearing their throwback uniforms.


Don

"When in doubt I whip it out,
I got me a rock-and-roll band.
It's a free-for-all."

[popsjumper 2]

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"Which '70s Tampa Bay team ever played a game that would be considered 'Classic'-worthy ?"

Yeah. "Classic" doesn't fit unless you're talking about inept.
Tons of old Buc plays on the NFL Bloopers films.

Their old logo was nick-named "Bruce".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239