Miss Fall Out of Harness @ Lodi Lady

[LyraM45 0]

Quote

since we didn't always do things 'by the book', he probably would have considered us dangerous too.

There is a difference between unconventional or 'not by the book,' and flat out illegal by breaking FAR's and stuff.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[chemfx 0]

The video may scare off bucket listers here and there but it remains that any one that comes to DZ and jumps out of a plane regardless if he/she is hookd up to a TI is risking their life just by steping out the door.
The lady didn't want to step out the door that should of been the end of the vid but the TI went ahead any ways. So two strikes for the TI good thing they both maid it. Plus she got the ride of her life and not complaining. 👍and she was able to cross skydiving off her list!
Next up?

👍 that should of been a thumbs up...

[headoverheels 291]

Quote

The video may scare off bucket listers here and there but it remains that any one that comes to DZ and jumps out of a plane regardless if he/she is hookd up to a TI is risking their life just by steping out the door.
The lady didn't want to step out the door that should of been the end of the vid but the TI went ahead any ways. So two strikes for the TI good thing they both maid it. Plus she got the ride of her life and not complaining. 👍and she was able to cross skydiving off her list!
Next up?

👍 that should of been a thumbs up...

You don't pay attention very well. She wanted to exit, she was just having trouble getting her leg into position.

[robinheid 0]

Quote

Quote

millions of people who don't understand just how rare something like this

Thousands of jumpers don't realize how NOT rare this is. It's not just Lodi; I saw a recent video from a different dz where the uppers got hooked up in freefall (don't ask, I don't have it and it's not online).

If all this bad publicity increases the attention paid to passenger harnessing by every ride operator, maybe we can actually deliver the "safe" Disneyland experience that we advertise.

+1

This is precisely what I've been trying to get across on the Instructor and Incidents forum threads on this subject. Instead of competing to see who can say the nastiest things about the TI and/or Lodi, we need to ask a vital question: "How can a guy with 3K tandems and 9K jumps over almost 30 years make so many mistakes and misjudgments on one jump?"

It goes beyond just having a bad day to a SYSTEMIC problem with large-volume tandem operations.

Human Factors 101; environment influences the decisions and judgments of the people operating therein and, in the case of large-volume tandem operations, the process paths and associated decision trees helped to "lead" this TI into those mistakes and misjudgments.

I contend that the root cause is a pervasive, industry-wide lack of clearly-defined tandem process paths for "in spec" and "out of spec" customers, amplified by the fact that, in parachuting, the old adage of "Why is there never time to do it right, but always time to do it over?" does not apply.

Treating an old, overweight, physically infirm customer (out of spec) as "just another tandem" (in spec) is an example of the former.

Forgetting to hook up uppers is an example of the latter.

In both cases, Lady Luck earned overtime pay beating back the Reaper. Next time we may not be so lucky -- and that is why we need to think less about bad publicity and bashing the TI and/or his DZ and more about tuning up the process industrywide so that the process path is more deliberate in general and that the process path for in spec and out of spec customers is more sharply defined.

One place for us to LEARN: Skycoasters. When Bill Kitchen introduced them, a singular part of his process was and remains a full videotaping of the preparation and gear-up process, and a very specific prep=-gear-up procedure that had to be followed to the letter by each and every staffer at each and every Skycoaster, regardless of their roles.

Parachuting does not have that, and as this incident shows, when your process is flawed even the best of us can make mistakes and misjudgments that can result in death.

44

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[tigra 0]

Quote

Quote

The video may scare off bucket listers here and there but it remains that any one that comes to DZ and jumps out of a plane regardless if he/she is hookd up to a TI is risking their life just by steping out the door.
The lady didn't want to step out the door that should of been the end of the vid but the TI went ahead any ways. So two strikes for the TI good thing they both maid it. Plus she got the ride of her life and not complaining. 👍and she was able to cross skydiving off her list!
Next up?

👍 that should of been a thumbs up...

You don't pay attention very well. She wanted to exit, she was just having trouble getting her leg into position.

She obviously did not want to exit- she was clinging to side of the plane- her hands were pried off at least 3 times that I saw, maybe more. I don't care what she said in the interview.

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The video may scare off bucket listers here and there but it remains that any one that comes to DZ and jumps out of a plane regardless if he/she is hookd up to a TI is risking their life just by steping out the door.
The lady didn't want to step out the door that should of been the end of the vid but the TI went ahead any ways. So two strikes for the TI good thing they both maid it. Plus she got the ride of her life and not complaining. 👍and she was able to cross skydiving off her list!
Next up?

👍 that should of been a thumbs up...

You don't pay attention very well. She wanted to exit, she was just having trouble getting her leg into position.

She obviously did not want to exit- she was clinging to side of the plane- her hands were pried off at least 3 times that I saw, maybe more. I don't care what she said in the interview.

Wait, she says she wanted to jump and was just trying to shift her weight for her legs, and you say she is lying?

Odd.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[DougH 270]

Seems to me that every tandem manufacturer has a manual that details exactly how to adjust the tandem harness.

Do overweight students, elderly students, and disabled students require much more care, additional planning, and additional training; yes absolutely.

But that doesn't change the fact that you need to tighten the harness properly, check it again before boarding the plane, and check it again before exit. For every single student, period.

I don't need to be videotaped, I have a personal rule with zero exceptions. I will adjust every tandem harness to the manual. I will check the adjustment three times. I will check the connections in the plane multiple times. I will check my tandem container and all handles multiple times.

Then again I am a newly minted TAN-I, and I instruct at a 182 drop zone. If a larger DZs operation model doesn't allow for me to be able to check harness multiple times, and do proper gear checks pre-exit then I won't jump there as an instructor.

Every single instructor has the ability to operate under their own set of rules, and if they can't meet those rules at an operation they can choose to not instruct there.

Is it a failing of the system that a guy with 3k tandems failed to adjust the harness on a tandem jump that should have required more care than normal?

Or is it a failing of someones own personal rules?

How many times were jumps made with poorly adjusted harness with regular body type students that turned out fine?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[davjohns 1]

I think I caught on the news that this actually happened a year ago. The video just went viral and started the commotion. I find that interesting.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[tigra 0]

I'm saying that she was extremely gracious in the interview, but it was pretty clear from the video that she did not want to exit.

[wmw999 2,121]

I'd've thought the same thing, until she said that she remembers the incident, and she did want the exit. Since my father also had to be pried off becuase he, too, didn't feel balanced (but not as much), I have a feeling that exiting with older people should be taken more seriously than it is.

When you're old, you're not flexible, you don't crouch; you don't bend over real far, etc. Your balance often sucks (falls are a huge issue in the elderly), because muscle mass isn't what it used to be (and Dad was strong). So maybe it takes a couple more test exits in the doorway, making sure that the passenger always feels in balance. Or, in some airplanes with soem passengers, maybe a seated exit is better, because then there isn't an issue of trying to crouch.

She didn't feel ready to go at that moment; in this case, because she wasn't balanced and had her frog brain engage and say that she had to be balanced before she could exit. My dad said that he held on because he was trying to get his arms on the harness the way the instructor told him to, and was having trouble. He had a great jump, and showed hte video regularly (ALWAYS get video when an older relative makes a jump)

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[tigra 0]

Didn't feel ready/ didn't want to exit- isn't that pretty much the same thing? The TI had no idea why she was clinging to the plane.

I still think she was being extremely gracious in the interview. She seems like an amazing lady!

[normiss 622]

This.

It's awkward as hell strapped to another person, in a small environment, you can't shift your own weight to balance so you try to hold on to something, only to have your hands pried off because you're affecting the person in control. (in this case I still think the TI squatting his weight on top of her only added to the difficulty)

Sit exits are so much easier on that aircraft.
Lean back, swing them into the door in a sit, roll out.
Nothing to hold onto except the harness.
Oh, and the emergency handles.

Getting older, not very flexible people out the door is even more of a challenge. They don't bend where we need them to, nor enough.

[jumpwally 0]

+1,,i agree 100%, quit with the bashin' and learn goin' forward. There is a reason 6 Sigma can make a huge diff in process'.....and the industry needs a process,,the manufacturers have one,,they wouldn't get past the Military audits. Yes, field ops need to be standardized....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[riddler 0]

Quote

so you try to hold on to something

Totally agree. Just holding onto the door doesn't mean you don't want to jump. It's instinct to grab something, not fear. What do you do when you peer off the side of a bridge? Most people immediately grab the hand-railing.

When you're 80 years old, you get used to holding onto something all the time. I had a grandmother that needed to hold onto the handle in our car when it was moving. She didn't have the muscle strength in her back to stay upright easily when we went around a corner.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Quote

Quote

Quote

The video may scare off bucket listers here and there but it remains that any one that comes to DZ and jumps out of a plane regardless if he/she is hookd up to a TI is risking their life just by steping out the door.
The lady didn't want to step out the door that should of been the end of the vid but the TI went ahead any ways. So two strikes for the TI good thing they both maid it. Plus she got the ride of her life and not complaining. 👍and she was able to cross skydiving off her list!
Next up?

👍 that should of been a thumbs up...

You don't pay attention very well. She wanted to exit, she was just having trouble getting her leg into position.

She obviously did not want to exit- she was clinging to side of the plane- her hands were pried off at least 3 times that I saw, maybe more. I don't care what she said in the interview.

I shot video for a good 6 yrs and I'd say 20% (most statistics are made up on the spot) of the tandem passengers put their hands on something when they go to the door. Some more than once.
the onces that really didn't want to jump let you know for sure.

I've seen what this lady did hundreds of times. I believe she wanted to jump.

[Opie 0]

"Hey Johnnie Utah that harness seems to be a tad bit loose" ~ Daniel Tosh

[normiss 622]

OMG I have GOT to see that.

[Halfpastniner 0]

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/segments/video-breakdown/

BASE 1384

[akarunway 1]

Quote

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/segments/video-breakdown/

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/segments/video-breakdown/

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.