Keyless Ignition Problem

[JerryBaumchen 1,051]

Hi folks,

I have read about this not too long ago.

I am now on my 2nd car with a keyless ignition; I would prefer, if given the choice, to not have this system in my car.

Thoughts?????

Jerry Baumchen

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

There are a few "Not gonna have no matter what" items on a car for me.

Keyless is one of them. When it works right, it's pretty cool. But it has it's pitfalls. And when it breaks it's usually a huge hassle to troubleshoot and fix it.

The big "Panoramic Sunroof" is another. Same thing. Cool when it works, and expensive nightmare when it doesn't.

Others may have different opinions. That's cool.
Edit to add:

Were you asking opinions on it?
Or how to disable it?

Disabling it can be done, but it depends on the car and the system that's in it. Some are as simple as going into the menu in the dash display and changing the settings. Others are more complex.

You can usually find a brand specific forum for your car that will be able to answer how.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BillyVance 34]

I just miss the old days when cars were made of steel and there weren't so much electronics that you can't fix shit yourself.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[BIGUN 1,065]

Ahhh, I'm saddened by the days of old when I had a '72 C-10 pickup and an '83 superglide.
Few friends, few beers and we could fix anything with a tool bag.

Now the Tahoe has to be plugged in to tell a parts swapper what he needs to do (nobody's mechanic'in anymore) and the 2015 Roadglide has to be serviced (like friggin oil changes) by an HD technician or it voids the warranty. And, when sumpin goes wrong... they too - plug it in.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JerryBaumchen 1,051]

Hi joe,

Quote

Were you asking opinions on it?

Just asking for thoughts.

Quote

Or how to disable it?

Not really wanting to do that; there are some repercussions from doing this type of stuff.

I did disable the TPMS on my first Lexus, but I think that is now illegal to do.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,051]

Hi Keith,

Quote

nobody's mechanic'in anymore

Well, most are doing better than the parts guys. I went into a dealership a few years ago wanting to get a nut just like the one in my hand; he asked me what the part number was so he could look it up on his computer. I walked away shaking my head.



Jerry Baumchen

[BIGUN 1,065]

Evening, Jerry.

That's what I mean. Someone on here (maybe TK) had a sig line... "Once they put a Jiffy Lube on every corner; we were doomed."

Keith

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[oldwomanc6 38]

JerryBaumchen

Hi folks,

I have read about this not too long ago.

I am now on my 2nd car with a keyless ignition; I would prefer, if given the choice, to not have this system in my car.

Thoughts?????

Jerry Baumchen

Wow, confused for a moment which forum I was in.

This is a common issue on the Corvette forums. Mostly because people don't read their OM, and don't understand how it works on their car (admittedly, some carmakers are better than others). Not understanding, and erroneously blaming the keyless system when they lock their keys in the car, or not knowing an alternative method of entry. People have been locking their keys in cars, and locking themselves out since there have been keys, so nothing new here. When it happens with a physical key, do they blame the key? No.

I love It!

So much so, that I did away with keys for my house and installed keypads. I love leaving my fob in my purse, and never having to handle keys. It has worked flawlessly for ten years and third of a million miles.

Why would you rather not have it?

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[NewGuy2005 51]

JerryBaumchen

Hi folks,

I am now on my 2nd car with a keyless ignition; I would prefer, if given the choice, to not have this system in my car.

Give the car to me.

[Phillbo 11]

I simply don't lock my truck and never leave anything of value in it....

Had it broken in to once in 14 years and they got spare change from the door pocket and never even realized the key was in the ignition. No damage was done since it was unlocked and they did not need to smash or break anything to get in.

[ryoder 1,393]

I have a couple funny stories on locking my keys in the car:


First story:
I was driving a CJ-5 with a 304 V8 that got horrible mileage, and needed to drive to the next state for a jumpmaster course. The GF had a little 4cyl econobox car that got great mileage, (and she like driving the Jeep), so I swapped vehicles with her and drove the econobox to the course.

So on the second day of the course, I locked the keys in the econobox, (and I'm 200 miles from home). I'm beating my head against the side of the car when I notice something...is...that...a...gasket-window??? Closer look: OH, YES!!! The rear quarter windows are gasket-windows!

Second story:
I'm a couple hundred miles from home at a boogie, driving my own sporty/econobox when I lock the keys in the car. I wander off to Roger's van to moan and get some sympathy. (Roger Humphrey was quite a character and a dead-ringer for Willie Nelson). I tell him my tale of woe, and old Roger's face lights up: "I've got just what you need!"

He pulls out a strip of metal about 36" x 1" with a notch cut in the side of one end. He tells me how to use it and I head off for my car muttering: "Yeah, right; Like it would be so easy."

I slipped the strip down beside the window, slide it along until it hit something unseen, tug upward on it...and the door unlocked. Less than 10 seconds to do something I had never even tried before. I was overwhelmed by two thoughts:

1. "It's unlocked!!!"2. "Holy shit! My car can be broken into that easily???"

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,393]

Phillbo

I simply don't lock my truck and never leave anything of value in it....

Had it broken in to once in 14 years and they got spare change from the door pocket and never even realized the key was in the ignition. No damage was done since it was unlocked and they did not need to smash or break anything to get in.

When I was living in the Chicago burbs, I had a co-worker who drove (IIRC) some model of Honda. He had it broken into, and the side window cost an incredible fortune to replace. After that he never locked it, since he never kept anything in the car that cost as much as a side window.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wan2doit 6]

Sounds like u use a "slim jim" - that and a set of jigglers and u can unlock and start many cars and trucks.

[ramalamading 0]

wan2doit

Sounds like u use a "slim jim" - that and a set of jigglers and u can unlock and start many cars and trucks.

Or a rubber door stop and a stiff coat hanger. You pry the top edge of the door away from the frame with your fingers and jam the door stop in there to create a tiny little gap. Slip the wire in through the gap and tap on the electric door-unlock button. I have freed dogs and children with this method.

I just bought my first car with keyless ignition. It's weird to me. Touching the door handle unlocks the car. You have to be careful not to touch it as you're walking away, in order for it to remain locked.

And I can click it twice to have the car start remotely, for warm-up on cold days. That's neat.

But I worry about locking it inside the car. Supposedly it's a proximity thing, so if it's inside, then it's close enough that the car will refuse to lock. However, I've heard stories of people leaving it inside the rear tailgate, and the car locking, because that's just outside the proximity zone in the front seat. So I like to hide a spare key somewhere for entry when locked out, and that's saved me a number of times. However, with this proximity key, I'm not sure I can do that, because the mere fact that it's hidden on the car, makes it close enough to avoid locking the car. Ack! So, can I wrap it in foil or something to defeat the radio signal, so that it won't interfere with normal operation, while remaining hidden?

Too damned complicated for me...

[oldwomanc6 38]

RTFM.

First off, most, if not all, have a physical key (in case of dead car or fob battery), and a RKE (Remote Keyless Entry) AKA, known as a fob. The two are separable, and a physical key can be hidden (tied to) the car somewhere. The fob can be hidden inside the car either wrapped in foil or separated from it's battery. The key can be used to enter the car, and the fob can be used to start the car (which is why it should be either wrapped or separated from the battery).

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[JerryBaumchen 1,051]

Hi Lisa,

Quote

Why would you rather not have it?

Because I'm old guy. No other reason.

I am OK with a remote lock/unlock system but not so much of a fan of the keyless. My 8-series BMW had a remote lock/unlock system, and I was quite OK with that. The remote did a bunch of other stuff that I rarely used. Sort of like my computers, I probably only use 10% of what they are capable of doing.

I do know how it works, I think. In a later post, you mention about removing the battery from the fob. In my new Lexus the battery in the fob is only to remotely lock/unlock the doors; it has nothing to do with the actual keyless ignition. That, as they told me when I bought the car, uses a RF recognition system.

I 'sorta' understand it ( I'm a Mech Engr ), maybe an electrical/electronic engineer can shed more light on the system. Billvon, you out there?

Jerry Baumchen

[SethInMI 145]

I really like the keyless in my subaru. Esp in winter, it is nice not to have to dig around in pockets for the key.

But I did get bit with it once:
I finished a bike ride back at my car and had a base layer underneath my jersey, and I was really warm. In process of taking it off, I ended setting my phone and keyfob on the roof of the car, and then I forgot them there while fussing with the bike and storing that on the roof too.

Somehow in a way I could not duplicate later, I started the car with the keyfob on the roof, and drove for about 1/2 mile that way until at about 45mph I heard a rattle as the phone and keyfob fell off the roof.

I pulled over, realized what happened, kept the car running while I went out and found the phone intact and the keyfob smashed by a passing car. I was pleased that the Galaxy S6 survived just fine with just a small chunk taken out of the metal ring around the screen.

I drove home another 30 miles without the key and then had to pay $250 for a new fob.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[normiss 622]

People complained when we changed from hand crank starters to electric.
People complained when motorcycles dropped the kick starter for electric start.
People complained when the high beam switch moved from the floor to the column.

People like to complain about change.

I'm complaining because my diesel truck only made it 5 moths before insisting on an oil change. Hopefully it won't go into limp mode.


Why didn't anybody complain when Ford tried to move the horn to the turn signal stalk???

[BillyVance 34]

I remember locking myself out of my car a few times in the 80's. All I needed was a coat hanger.

Nowadays, its a call to AAA and wait for the locksmith.

Even today's cars, you can't lock the vehicle when the key is in the ignition and the engine's off. But take the key out and absentmindedly leave it on the seat while you take stuff out and then lock it, and you're fucked.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[normiss 622]

Buy German then.

[BillyVance 34]

normiss

Buy German then.

I used to have a Porsche 914 2.0... Badass little car. I've almost made a couple friends piss themselves.

Kinda wish I'd kept it. Would be an antique now.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Divalent 89]

normiss

... People like to complain about change. ...

While the discussion about this is fun, I suspect the main issue is that a new way of doing things brings about new, but unfamiliar, ways that it can fail. So you find yourself asking whether the benefits of the new way are enough to offset these new disadvantages.

With the "old" key system (pre 1990's era), it was pretty simple: if you wanted to unlock the car and start the car, you needed a key. And to drive the car, the key had to be physically connected to the car. Keys were cheap to duplicate/replace. And they were durable: drive over them, and they still work. And the method to use them (insert key, turn) was familiar and simple.

Next they made keys with some sort of electronic recognition thing in them, presumably so that someone couldn't cheaply duplicate the key and steal your car. You could copy the key, but it only worked to unlock the door. Benefit: some miniscule reduction in car thefts, at a cost of making replacement keys more expensive (~$100). IMO, totally not worth it.

Next adding an electronic door lock/unlock remote fob so you could more easily lock and unlock the car, as well as find your car in a dark crowded parking lot. IMO, all added benefit, with no downside. (If you lose the fob, you can still use the key to lock and unlock the door).

Now keyless ignition: what is the benefit? Seems like it has all the same failure/disadvantages of the simple key system (lose the key and you can't unlock or start the car), but in addition even more costly to replace. And, as several accounts above show, its now possible to start the car and drive away from the key, so you are more likely to lose the key.

But I don't have keyless ignition, so maybe I'm ignorant. For those here that like em, forget about telling us to RTFM to understand how they work, and instead tell us the benefits over a simple key system that offset the disadvantages.

[DanG 1]

With a working fob, you can't lock the keys in the car. With a good system, that includes the trunk. The car won't lock from the outside with the key inside. That's a pretty good advantage. If the battery dies, there is still a physical key inside the fob that works just like a regular key (at least on my car). You just pull that key out and it's like you're back in 1985.

The only thing I don't like about my fob is that the panic button is super sensitive. Not a week goes by that I don't accidentally set off the car alarm when my phone presses the panic button in my pocket. I keep meaning to disable the button, but never seem to get around to it. A friend of mine disabled his panic button my gluing a dime over it.

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,134]

OK, I think they're kind of cool in rental cars. But I couldn't lock the key in my 1963 Falcon unless I went through the back door. The new failure modes argument is valid. Particularly today, after the first Apple Genius Bar techie told me that my mail suddenly quitting working was something they couldn't address; that mail issues are usually a password problem .

I'll admit I'm just not that into gigantic black boxes with many possible outputs and paths. Those multiply the failure modes.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ryoder 1,393]

Divalent

With the "old" key system (pre 1990's era), it was pretty simple: if you wanted to unlock the car and start the car, you needed a key. And to drive the car, the key had to be physically connected to the car.

No, not always.
I once worked with a guy who drove a 1960's-something Chevrolet. The key could be removed w/o locking the ignition; All you had to do was twist the metal part into which the key normally fits, and you could drive it. I didn't believe it until I tried it myself.

Initially, I thought his ignition switch was defective, but later found confirmation on the net.
Example on a Corvette forum: http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/2665376-ignition-lock-turns-without-the-key-in.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.