experience or just luck..

[vandev 0]

Hey Michael, yes it makes perfect sense...thanks for the relpy...yes i rember doing a heli jump and it took a few secounds to get the move on but i still felt in control to a very good degree until that point i felt i had lateral movement...

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[KevinMcGuire 0]

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Every BASE jumper starts with two buckets.

The first is the skill bucket. That one starts empty.

The second is the luck bucket. That one starts with some random amount in it that you don't get to know.

The trick is to fill the first bucket faster than you empty the second. Unfortunately, some of us start with very little in the second bucket--and there is no way of knowing.

reply]

I had not heard that one before. I like it

[GaryP 0]

Getting the launch right is of prime importance in my jumping. How the kinetic energy of the launch plays out and the affect that the inertia of my arm and leg movements have on the end resulting body position is a subject of never-ending thought and rehearsal for me.

As I was discussing with Jaap recently, I call this "inertial interplay".

Look at the BASE fatalities for a moment:

# 11 Launched head-down / fouled with lines
# 12 Launched head-down/cliff strike on opening
# 27 Launched head-down/cliff strike on opening
# 37 Unstable launch/lost height awareness/impact
# 38 Unstable launch/lost height awareness/impact
# 42 Over-rotated launch/ impact ledge
# 44 Unstable launch/cliff strike on opening
# 47 Over-rotated launch/ impact cliff
# 56 Slipped on exit/cliff strike on opening
# 60 Over-rotated launch/ impact cliff
# 63 Unstable launch/impact cliff
# 64 Launched head-down/cliff strike on opening
# 67 Unstable launch/impact cliff
# 84 Over-rotated launch/ impact ledge

16% of BASE fatalities due to poor launch. Just an observation.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[pope 0]

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There is always a reason...

I disagree. I've seen bad shit just happen. The systems we use are just so complex and chaotic that we just can't control everything.

You'll have a hard time convincing me that most BASE jumpers can't control whether they walk away from a jump or not when it's not right.

Remember--It's always YOUR choice to leave an exit point. Which direction you leave is also up to you. There is usually a short way to the bar and a longer way to the bar. Pity to go in strictly because you were too lazy to hike down in the wrong conditions and chose to jump instead, wouldn't it?

I'm of the opinion that if you EVER decide to walk down, you've made the right choice.

.02
pope

[leroydb 0]

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I'm of the opinion that if you EVER decide to walk down, you've made the right choice.

Agree, there is no such thing as a chicken in BASE. I think it takes more to climb or hike, or ride an elevtor down.

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[TomAiello 25]

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The systems we use are just so complex and chaotic ...

are you talking about gear? Is the top gear not always the best choice...?

We're using big sheets of nylon, stitched together in specific patterns and thrown out into various speeds of wind. While we can predict what is likely to happen when that nylon hits the airflow, there is no way we can be certain that it will happen exactly as we think, every time. Even in a laboratory, I doubt we could create exactly identical openings every time. In the real world, where wind, temperature, body position, etc, etc, etc, are different (even if ever so slightly) every time?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base736 0]

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I disagree. I've seen bad shit just happen. The systems we use are just so complex and chaotic that we just can't control everything.
***
You'll have a hard time convincing me that most BASE jumpers can't control whether they walk away from a jump or not when it's not right.

I should start by agreeing that knowing when and how to walk down is one of the most important skills in BASE. But maybe we need a better way to say "Sometimes you can do everything right..."? The point, I think, is that there are some incidents from which we, as BASE jumpers, can learn nothing except that BASE jumping is dangerous.

Can BASE fatalities be prevented without exception by walking down? Yes. Is that always a helpful analysis of what happened, particularly for those of us who like to jump when the conditions seem good? I don't think so.

[K763 0]

Hi Tom...

I think it was because of #63 that the Kjerag Pendulator was created. She did have a few jumps from the potato bridge and exited just fine on every one of them. (5-6 jumps) I do wish she'd had another 6-8 from the Pendulator...

It seems like the brightest stars are the ones that burn out quickest. To me, they are the comets of human life.

Peace,
K

[Thijs 0]

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I had heard that in high diving, sooner or later everyone hits the platform at least once, and then they have to get over it and get on with things and then it's business as usual.

I have hit the platform once, luckely only with my hand and luckely only some flesh was gone and I didn't break anything.
I was performing an inward dive, and probably didn't jump far enough.

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Did that ever happen to you, or to a high diver you knew? If so, why?

I didn't have a lot of experience, so that is why I guess. I can't follow classes, so I have teached everything myself upto now.
I have had a lot of 'close calls', meaning, seeing a diving board less then 5cm (2 inches) is pretty scary.
The fear of hitting the platform again (but with my head) is the only thing that keeps me from doing a gainer.

Diving helps to learn how your body works in dead air, it doesn't teach you how to exit in a direct way, since in diving you go head first. Don't exit as in diving or you'll get scared
I don't know if diving helps a lot for training an exit, since I have never basejumped.

vandev: as a diver you should know that even the best sometimes have a bad exit/jump and land bad, so even the best basejumper can have a bad exit/jump. Only, in base the results are often worse.

Thijs

[sabre210 0]

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i guess what i am getting at is i am a little confused. i see in the fatality list experienced base jumpers going into the wall. I saw that base fatality # 63 did everything right but still went in.

In a nutshell, for me at least, that's all you need to bear in mind. EXPERIENCED, in fact, VERY EXPERIENCED, no I'll go one further, MORE EXPERIENCED THAN I'LL EVER BE, jumpers die all the time. We can analyze the facts, try to learn the lessons, but i guarantee you that 10 years from now, EXPERIENCED jumpers will still be dying.

Be humble, know that you are fallible, know that even if you do 1000 perfect BASE jumps, just 1 bad one is enough to bring about your end. Know that even if you do everything you perceive to be right at the time, you can still be making mistakes. Know that the bitter irony of fatigue is that one of symptons is you'll never realise you are fatigued. Know that hindsight and lists and stats are wonderful things which can be learned from but don't actually help you at THAT moment.

As flippant as it sounds, and as cool as it looks on Xtreme t-shirts, there is a great amount of wisdom in the philosophy of "shit just happens". I'm sure someone somewhere in some university can provide a beautiful formula to prove it too.

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Ok for instance...not to offend anyone but how hard is it to track away from the wall??

Don't assume the wall is vertical all the way to impact. Most walls have underhung sections or a talus which requires not just a track, but a perfect track to outfly. How do you know if you're outflying the slope. Instinct, gut, visual references, past experience. How do you accumulate a library of these without putting yourself in the proverbial firing line first. You can't.

peace

ian

[Faber 0]

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there is no such thing as a chicken in BASE

huh?
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=222746
well i do agree,that you always can walk away,but that aint the jump it self...
soon as you leap off the object and still do evrything right,you can be killed before you even notice it...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[NickDG 23]

Hi Vandev,

Those are a thinking man's thoughts and you sparked a good discussion. Thanks for that.

However, let me warn you of another danger in BASE jumping, just so you are ready for it when the time comes. Of all the BASE jumpers I've seen start in the sport the great majority all say pretty much the same thing you did.

>>My only desire though would be to birdman off somewhere in Norway or Switerland<<

Then after a few high cliff jumps you'll travel back to your hometown with the BASE fire in your belly. Your resistance will crumble and the next thing you know you'll be raping and pillaging every object in sight. I'm just letting you know so you'll recognize it when it happens.

After all these years we should have come up with a name for this malady . . .

NickD BASE 194

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

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After all these years we should have come up with a name for this malady . . .

>>You mean Basentery? Foot and object disease?
"Uh oh, he's got basentery, better get him to an antenna..."

[NickDG 23]

>>there is no such thing as a chicken in BASE<<

That's correct, but there is a "Chicken BASE Award." J.D. Walker started it in the 80s. You must stand, ready to jump, on all four objects, "and then chicken out to the max . . ."

NickD BASE 194

[TomAiello 25]

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After all these years we should have come up with a name for this malady . . .

I call it BASE fever, after Summit fever in mountaineering.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[460 0]

big walls are not really the safest. To say #63 did everything right is a bit of a stretch. terminal big wall jumps can overwhelm a newbie especially since many things are required: good exit, tracking, altitude awareness, visual overload.

regarding wing suit jumping, that adds another element of chaos. I would suggest doing simple base jumps for quite a while to get your bearings.

Read the base fatality list, #70, while on a wingsuit jump. avoid pilot chutes with hackey sack handles.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[460 0]

J.D. - haven't heard that name in a while.

J.D. and Dead Steve put me off on my first jump, a 600 foot cliff.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[NickDG 23]

Dead Steve broke his leg BASE jumping in Saudi Arabia and missed his flight home. That flight was Pan Am 103.

But, that's not how he got his name . . .

NickD BASE 194

[brits17 0]

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Dead Steve broke his leg BASE jumping in Saudi Arabia and missed his flight home. That flight was Pan Am 103.

He's the one shouting "party till impact!" yeah? Heh, saw that video, what a lucky bastard

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[leroydb 0]

what a way to live... suffer a broken leg and inadvertantly miss a dealy flight... simplyamazing...


Wow...The stories that would flow once the drinking begins with the "old folk" here

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[KevinMcGuire 0]

[

That's correct, but there is a "Chicken BASE Award." J.D. Walker started it in the 80s. You must stand, ready to jump, on all four objects, "and then chicken out to the max . . ."

[NickDG 23]

And then it morphed into a cooler thing. It meant you BASE jumped enough to encounter bad WX conditions on all four objects and were smart enough to walk back down . . .

NickD BASE 194

[vandev 0]

Thanks Nickd, I actually learned allot from reading the base fatalities. For one i learned that what i wish to someday be ready to do is what kills experienced base jumpers. I see only one or 2 that got killed on a low object. It seems the ones that get you are the ones that you can really fly...and have the most hang time. I have also learned that this sport is far from skydiving in most ways. just because you have 10,000 plus jumps doesnt mean you can leap of a rock. Its a hole different game with much higher stakes but it seems much more like flying...

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[vandev 0]

I think it was because of #63 that the Kjerag Pendulator was created

What is this device that was created and what does it do?

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[460 0]

Steve earned the nickname from his notorious BASE malfunction rate. 3 mals on BASE jumps, all with the use of a round reserve to save his life. The idea that a reserve is useless in BASE is simply foolish. Funny, his BASE reserve openings were less than 100'. One was at 20'. He once did a time analysis of realization of malfunction to decision to do something to pull reserve handle. The decision time came to 1/8 second or so. Pretty quick and generally beyond the physiological capabilities of most humans.

He was enlisted as a pilot at the time. He got sent to Saudi by the military after getting into legal trouble doing a jump off a large California cliff. While there, he scoped out a 600' cliff called 'rag's head point.' Literally a point. Essentially impossible to hit unless the 180 was a perfect 180. He hit the wall and landed in great pain. He had two friends with him. One was filming on top. The other was on the ground. The ground man happened to be a weight lifter, and this allowed him to carry Steve on his back through 7 miles of Saudi desert to civilization. The very next day, Steve missed the Pan Am 103 flight. He had tickets for the flight but had to return them to the military because he missed the flight, for a refund. Simply amazing. I am so glad to have been with Steve when he made his first BASE jump after the Saudi accident. I still have his JD Walker BASE rig that he used to earn his BASE number (174) over in the corner of my bedroom. Steve sent to all his friends his close call list. It's three pages, typed, written in a hair-raising style. I may post here some time. Hey, I thought the Cessna jump from 240' sail slider up with a small pilot chute to be pretty gutsy. All went well, and it's easy to critisize this one if you don't know the details of how it was done.

-Chris

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174