SStewart

Sheesh, Nobody listens to me... The AIRPORT that was at that location doesn't appear to be an airport any longer... Here is what is going on at the Former Hartwood Dropzone... You don't have to read much... it's in the first paragraph of the second page... http://www.co.stafford.va.us/bos/mar0210/17.pdf Suffice to say this is no longer viable as an airport (or probably a dz for that matter... considering homeland security appears to be using it...) That was very sad to read, I always wondered what happened to Hartwood. When I moved to the east coast in 2004 Hartwood was my first dropzone. It was perfect, they had an Otter and a 206 and the facilities were nice. Clubhouse, snack bar, huge hangar with indoor packing, bunkhouse, showers, professional loft with everything (sewing machines, packing tables etc.) It seemed too good to be true but the DZ was on it's last legs and seemed to be fading away. But, the people were great and we had fun. It never made sense to me me because it was such a good location and so close to Washington DC. It had so much potential. But, a few months after I started jumping there Pilot Dan crashed the twin-bo and that was the last nail on the coffin. We had a memorial for Dan and that was the last time I jumped there. I went to Orange but they would not let me jump because I had no AAD. (For some reason it was safer to jump a rented rig with an AAd than my own familiar stuff without one) Skydive the Point was awesome and they always treated me like family. Many of the Hartwood jumpers were there. So now two Virginia dropzones are gone. Hartwood forever it seems, and STP too. This has been going on for too long now! More small drop zones across the country have been closing down and no new ones have been opening to take their place. In my home state of Oregon we used to have 7 viable Dz's and now we are down to 2 maybe 3 on any given weekend. For the last two decades across the nation more dropzones are being closed or are going out of business than there are new ones coming in to take their place. The large commercial centers can't absorb everyone without the smaller centers sending them business during seasonal changes. We are going extinct...... Onward and Upward!

I'm sorry you misunderstood the point I was trying to make in my discussion with Strat. The Airport Authority has a goal to get the skydivers off the airport. But, since the airport receives federal funding they have to provide equal access. So, they are using the building code violations to evict them from the hangar knowing they can't possibly operate without a building. If the AA was not out to ruin the business and force them out then they would allow the DZ to get the building up to speed and renew the lease. Also, by using building code violations as a pretense to terminate the lease The DZ can not claim that equal access laws are being violated because it is merely a dispute over a building lease. The feds will certainly not get involved in that. It is interesting that there were no problems with the building or fire marshal inspections in the last ten years but now suddenly it must be complied with or get out. The whole thing sounds fishy to me and I believe the AA has found a loophole to kick the skydivers off the airport. I also do not see other airport users facing the same scrutiny. They may have perfectly legal, valid reasons to evict the club from the building but I still think it's bullshit. It is really just an excuse to close down another dropzone. If the airport wanted to be reasonable they would allow the repairs to be made so the building would be up to code. That would need to be done before new tenants could move in anyway. For some reason I think they already have someone else in mind. Onward and Upward!

OK, fair enough. I appreciate a well thought out argument. Up until now the FAA had such a dismal record concerning skydivers and our rights on federally funded airports. I am so glad those days are over! I spent several years of my life trying to convince the FAA that federally funded airports were legally obligated to provide equal access to all airport users. Even Skydivers! It warms my heart to know the FAA is now getting involved in disputes over building leases. I am so glad the FAA is now on our side. Somebody should have sent me an email. This is a major break through! Thanks StratoStar! PS Too bad all the other DZ's that have been shut down in the last 10 years didn't get the memo Onward and Upward!

I was always afraid I would cut the whole damn riser off. With tension you can cut through a seat belt with a jack the ripper This thread reminds me why CRW experience is so valuable. Onward and Upward!

When did they stop being part of the culture? I am guessing about the same time tandem rigs showed up at the DZ. Onward and Upward!

Yep, the trick is finding the right line to cut. It is going to be chaos at best. Trying to clear it will likely saw a big hole like a cheese slicer. My good buddy Dave DeWolf told me he always carries a knife just in case he had a line over on his reserve. And this is one of the best master riggers in the country. Even a perfectly packed reserve can malfunction. On a main? Chop it. Onward and Upward!

Did you ask Dave? He sometimes has floor space in the loft. Slept in the sewing room upstairs once. If not the Red rose motel is super cheap and will give you a skydiver discount. Onward and Upward!

Every year at lost prairie the crack choir and the cock chorus sing a large play list of tunes. I remember the lyrics posted somewhere awhile back. Onward and Upward!

That is a kind of a shitty thing to say and way off base. Randy is awesome at his job and helped me out at least twice that I can remember but Jim is pretty well schooled on govt relations as well. that is Randy Ottinger's job and he spends a great deal of his time rubbing elbows with the big wigs on the Capital Hill in FAA and he dose a damn good job of it... Jim I'm sure is becoming educated in an expressed manner. And I advise you to stop being so condesending and stop talking to me like I am a child. I have been dealing with airport access issues for almost 3 decades now with some success and some failures but I have always tried my best. Again, you are barking up the wrong tree! Close, but no cigar Not funny, typical tactic from whuffos. They know the law is not on their side so they have to find loopholes to get their way These types of things don't sit well with the FAA Have you lost your mind? The FAA does not give a rip about skydivers and they never have. We are nothing more than the bastard children of aviation to them and sometimes we get our way and sometimes we don't. You need a reality pill and maybe a shot of tequila to wash it down with. C-ya Onward and Upward!

"Tandem jumping has done the same thing to skydiving that fat skis have done to the sport of alpine skiing. Now, even fat out-of-shape old people with no athletic ability can do it too!" "This is not a dropzone, it is a fucking amusement park" "Hand-cams are just the final nail on the coffin, that bowling thing is starting to look good" Onward and Upward!

I am sure you mean well but you are barking up the wrong tree. I understand what is going on here. I just read Jim's FB statement for the second time and he himself states quite clearly that this is a building lease issue and not an airport access issue. (His words) Maybe you should read it too. It is bullshit I know, using building code violations as an excuse to terminate the lease on the hangar. But, that is what is happening according to the man himself. Apparently the DZO is also blowing the "it is not an airport access issue" horn too. There is absolutely no mention of million dollar insurance policies or special use permits. I suppose a claim of discrimination could be made but claiming it and proving it are two different things. It would likely end up in court with tons of legal fees and no guarantee they would win, seen it too many times before. I fully support STP and I hope they can work this out and renew the lease on the hangar. It would be a shame to see another DZ close it's doors. Onward and Upward!

Sorry but you are wrong. I understand this subject quite well and have been personally involved in airport access cases as a USPA regional director. Not sure why you are attacking me I am totally on your side. I was merely pointing out that everything being discussed publicly says the issue is the use of a building not access to the airport itself. Onward and Upward!

It is on many levels, a sponsor can't require insurance that you can't get such as a million dollar policy for parachuting or saying you can take off and land here but you have to have your business off site and other things like that, there is more to the story here then is public, I have spoke to Jim first hand and I know his side of this... It is in fact a part 13 or part 16 type case.*** Well, then you know more than is being discussed here. I have read they are being evicted from a building, not kicked off the entire airport. If I own a building on an airport and you lease it from me then I have the keys to the castle and part 13 or 16 can go pound sand. If there is more to the story then why not make it public? Onward and Upward!

Right on the money, pretty much the same reason FS Smoke jumpers still use rounds. To the agency the jumpers are just cargo, a mode of reliable transportation to the ground and nothing more. It is not supposed to be "fun" Also, rounds are better in tall timber. Squares don't like tree baranches too well and are more prone to collapse. "A square will get you there, but a round will get you down" Onward and Upward!

Strat, you are right but this is not an airport access issue. This is a hangar access issue. There is nothing keeping skydivers from using the airport itself, just the building they operate out of. As far as I can tell the other option is to build your own hangar/clubhouse which would be a very costly undertaking or move to another building. The last time I was there a few years back there were not any empty buildings to move into. From my limited experience (5 or 6 trips there, boogies, and less than 100 total skydives) the airport would be a ghost town without the jumpers. Why you would evict your best and only customer is beyond me. I would guess USPA will throw everything they can at this one since the DZO is a paid employee on the staff and it is a busy turbine operation in the state of VA, home of USPA headquarters. If this was a small Cessna DZ in backwater USA they would not get involved at all. Sorry, but that is how it works, seen it too many times. Onward and Upward!

That just sucks. When I lived on the East coast the point was one of my favorite places to jump. I hope Jim and the rest of the crew can work this out. It would be a tragedy to see one of the oldest DZ's in the country close it's doors. Vibes! Onward and Upward!

I think he might be a skydiver Onward and Upward!

I used to think more was better but over the years I have changed my position. I have been teaching skydiving for over 20 years now and I still consider myself to be a STUDENT. In my early days half the class was PLF's Then we had to teach how to fly those advanced "square" parachutes. I think it gets to the point where you reach sensory overload and anything beyond that is wasted. Keep it simple and keep it safe. We teach a Tandem progression (AFP) and we have a tunnel 5 minutes from the airport. I concentrate on canopy flying and emergency procedures. The freefall stuff is easy. We have a great success rate and I can honestly say in 24 years of instructing I have personally never had a student fatality or even a serious injury. The proof is in the pudding, my class only lasts about 4 hours but my students have 2 tandem jumps already and most have tunnel time. The tunnel time is not mandatory but it is encouraged and our kids get a good deal on minutes. The times they are a changing Onward and Upward!

I had also had a toothpaste incident a few weeks ago. I was flying from Salt lake to Seattle to take my son to a Seahawks game and the TSA pulled my boy over to the side to search his carry-on. He found one of those small childrens bottles of tooth paste. My fault I guess, I honestly thought it would be OK since it was so small. The TSA guy said it was 1 ounce over the limit. So we repacked his suitcase and put our shoes back on and proceeded to the terminal and my son wanted to know why that dork took his tooth paste. I told him apparently the TSA thinks an 11 year old boy from Utah might try to take down an airliner with a small bottle of Spongebob Colgate gel. Comical really, 3 ounces would be perfectly safe but 4? Oh no, we just can't take that risk. You know how dangerous that extra ounce of kids toothpaste might be. Not only that but once you are through security you can go to the gift shop and replace it with the exact same substance. Absolutely absurd, if they can't tell the difference between something harmless and something truly dangerous then they are nothing more than a joke. The terrorists must be laughing at us. Oh, and when we got to Seahawks stadium there was no pat-down of any kind. The guy simply asked me to open my raincoat and that was it. He didn't even look in my bag which had a camera, binoculars, hat, etc. I could of had anything in there. No metal detectors or anything. Pretty much the same at every NFL stadium I have been to. Onward and Upward!

Nope, just the same information everyone else gets. Onward and Upward!

Seriously though, what do you know about it? Have you been exposed to priveleged information? Are you nuts? We invaded a defenseless country for no reason. Onward and Upward!

Bush is a war criminal and should be in prison. There is absolutely no justification for his crimes. Onward and Upward!

Well Boehner would certainly be the first Orange-American to run for President. Onward and Upward!

I had a Strato Flyer that was converted to a seven cell. It was called the "added attraction" They sewed two end cells onto it but the end cells were slightly larger than the middle five so they looked kinda like pontoons. Always had end cell closure on opening and it took some effort to pump them open. Landings were OK but I was much lighter back then. I had just one cutaway on it compared to 3 on Strato Stars (two in one day on back to back loads) The last jump I made on my Strato Flyer was when I had a premature deployment in a 182 and it was destroyed when it went over the horizontal stabilizer. It was the first canopy I actually owned. I have a picture of it somewhere, maybe I will scan it and post it if I can find it. Onward and Upward!

I am C-16486 and I am still here It is still RW in my book, I use my whole body not just my "Belly" "Belly" is meant to be an insult by asshat punks Fuck you asshat punks! Onward and Upward!