likestojump

Is there nobody that can add anything new to this thread ? shame.... :(

I know this thread is OLD, but I am sure I would get yelled at for making a new one. Those of you who have jumped or own(ed) Icarus Beta's - what did you think of them ? thanks !

you are extrapolating my statement Bill :) I was merely making statements about the PDR as that is what was ridden in the situation that started this thread. I am also trying to stay with facts and not hypothetical situations. Another valid conclusion is that as PD have a higher MSRP than other reserves, thus they have a higher resale value all other things being the same. A certain psychographic of "PD snobs" also has an effect aswell :) Of course, yet another fact irrelevant to the current thread :) In my experience the most repacks I have seen was 7 on a square and 13 on a round, but I doubt there's many people bold enough to represent a 40 jump reserve as having 20 or less rides. This of course is neither here or there...

I am not arguing that. But you and I are talking about different things. Think apples to apples, not apples to oranges :) I am looking at NEW/unused PDR vs used and/or ridden PDR. Basically the population for my statement is ALL PDR reserves, and the sample are/is the PDR's that have been ridden. I am saying that for SOME people if a person were buying a PDR reserve, they would perceive one that has no rides to have a higher value. And I am basing that conclusion upon conversations with MANY people and some responses to this thread. Please note that I am not making a blanket statement - this does not apply to ALL situations, ALL people, or ALL reserves (PD or not). Wow, this is actually an interesting and stimulating discussion

I agree with you on all points. Here's what I think about BOTH of your statements : I am sure the percentage of reserves that get retired by PD is minimal. But the concern that such manufacturer policy builds is what devalues the canopy aka the perceived value.

I don't think the design of reserves is all that much different than mains as far as construction and materials. I'd guess that it'd take hundreds of jumps for wear and tear to set in, but I'd love to hear if I was wrong. FACTS : 1)The design of the reserve is such that the manufacturer (PD) feels that it needs to inspect it every 40 packjobs OR 25 rides, whichever comes first. 2)F111 canopies wear out ALOT faster than ZP (PDR is all F111) 3)Talking to some people who test jumped PDRs, they said they really felt the different in flare/flight after as few as 40 terminal openings 4) more of survey based assumption, but for the purpose of the argument, I consider it valid. : a few people in this thread indicated that they would be put off by the reserve having jumps on it - thus the presence of ride(s) will narrow the potential consumer market - I perceive that as loss of value

thank you for a good answer. what if the reserve had a DOM of 2007 with 3 repacks and no rides ? Do you think that the addition of a ride would make a difference in your decision ?

Agreed. That being said, every try-n-buy, just like every jump, is by definition a potential reserve ride. To avoid disputes from any ambiguity (real or perceived), responsibility for reserve re-pack is best set down in writing in advance. I smell somebody with a JD. I in fact do have that spelled out. I state that buyer "is responsible for any and all costs that are not part of regular wear and tear. To include all costs associated with acts negligence" I'm really not trying to argue with you. "Spelled out" means spelled out. Your language is fine, but does not spell out the issue we're discussing. So all I'm saying is that it doesn't specifically provide for repacks in the event of a reserve activation, and thus it is an ambiguity re: that issue - no matter how "obvious" you thing the more general langage may make it. If I were your JD, I'd have your documents specifically state something like "in the event of an activation of the reserve canopy, the borrower will be responsible for the cost of repacking said reserve by a certified rigger,"... or some kind of language to that general effect. That's all. (I discuss this in post #26, above.) I prematurely hit "reply". I agree that any ambiguity is best attacked by being mentioned by the name in the contract. I wasn't trying to imply that I disagree with you, I was just trying to say that I have thought of that. Of course, I am always refining the docs :)

Dear Rehmwa, I will dissect your post into a few pieces : oh really ? And why are you calling me cheap ? Do you know me ? Did I state evidence of any action that I took that would classify me as cheap in your perception? Why don't you stop reading what I did not write. Thank you. Thank you. I do think stating "i think" would make you sound a lot nicer. You are talking about perceptions and values, not about solid material facts. Unless of course you have legal evidence to justify that. And we move on to : WHO IS WHINING ? I asked for opinions, I did not ask for people to take pity on me. I did not even state how happy or upset I was with the situations. You are assuming. again.... And this part I agree with 100%. Tell me, where did I say that I have the value of a rig PERFECTLY dialed in ? When I mention the reserve ride possibly being worth $$$ - I never put a value on it. As far as being dialed into the used market - I have sold way over 100 rigs in the last 2 years, and over 300 canopies. I do think that I have a pretty good gauge on the market. Some posters in this thread have bought from me. Cya

Absolutely. You seem to be having a difficult time believing that people feel this way, even after several have written the same thing. Someone may jump a reserve packed by your favorite rigger, but to buy it unseen is another story. Dear kkeenan, this is your second reply to me, and you are 2 for 2 in ASSUMING what I think and feel. Please don't assume. In fact, I don't have a difficult time believing that one may want to get an inspection. I am merely looking for data points.

Agreed. That being said, every try-n-buy, just like every jump, is by definition a potential reserve ride. To avoid disputes from any ambiguity (real or perceived), responsibility for reserve re-pack is best set down in writing in advance. I smell somebody with a JD. I in fact do have that spelled out. I state that buyer "is responsible for any and all costs that are not part of regular wear and tear. To include all costs associated with acts negligence"

What he said. In addition, without seeing it with my own eyes, how do I know for sure that it is what the seller says it is? ok all. I am not arguing having a rigger look at the reserve. I am asking if you consider it reasonable to expect the "buyer" to provide a repack and pay some $$$ for loss of value.

Pre-buy for me would include popping the reserve for inspection by MY rigger, whom I trust. All riggers are not created equal! That would be followed by a repack by my rigger and sent back in the condition I received the rig, if I did not purchase the rig. moot point, as that's not part of the situation I am asking to evaluate :( I am still thankful for your answer, to extrapolate - what if the original in-date packjob was sealed by a very well known and respected master rigger, would YOU still have your rigger do and I&R ?

ok, so looks like we all agree that a reserve repack is to be expected. What about the subsequent loss of value due to the reserve use ? As they stated, it was THEIR negligence that caused the need for a reserve ride. And now when I will sell the rig it will we worth less as it has one extra reserve activation. Furthermore, to solidify my point - they really did not even need to jump it, as they determined beforehand that the fit is not to their liking. What do you say ?

They were not buying a reserve, they were buying a complete rig. The reserve was in date and had a seal on it. Please read what I wrote.

So I was selling a rig, and the person requested I ship it to a well known rigger in their area. After Inspection they determined that the harness is not that great of a fit, but decided to jump it anyways. A subsequent crappy main packjob resulted in a chop (their assessment, no mine). Now they say since the harness does not fit as well as they would like, they don't want to buy the rig. Do you think it's reasonable to ask them to get the reserve repacked and inspected and add some extra $$$ on top as the chop was obviously due to packer negligence, and not gear malfunction ? Points: The rig was sent to them with the reserve in-date. They were not charged anything as this was a try'n'buy They were advised of the harness size and measurements prior to deciding to demo the rig They agreed that they will be responsible for anything that's not regular wear and tear

That's a bum deal, do not take it. The entire thing screams scam, 450 euros is a decent whack of money. No legit person wouldn't meet the basic guidelines. Overseas, western union, general bad vibe. I would say nop. Ask him where he jumps at and try to verify with the DZO about the authenticity of the goods. If he has no reference at all, I would be extremely suss. ok, STOP. enough is enough. This deal is a scam for sure, and doing anything more about it would be wasting ones time. Unless of course you want to just mess with the individual. Perhaps send him a fake MTCN # and insist the money has been sent. here's a real MTCN for you 908-753-7081 if you wish to do that. Obviously, the $$$ associated with that number have already been picked up.

sounds like it's very likely to be a scam. The wording is quite similar to many others.

I bet is sounds very similar to this : http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?forum=44;

Cypres1 has a life of +3 Months past 12 years, so you would be fully legal no matter how you look at the regs. Cypres2 has a +6 month life

so..... one of my cats apparently brought a LIVE chipmunk home. I was woken up by one of the cats going crazy - and once I turned the lights on, there she was, chasing the little creature. Chased it somewhere, but I could not get it out of the house. What would be the recommended for Humane remedies ? I was figuring a small squirrel trap and then just let it out outside. I just don't want the damn thing to die in the basement :(

You can print your own and they will be EXACTLY how you like 'em. Allen Silver's cards do have an "date due" - and I find it pretty useful for his clientele (pilots)

in case anyone cares, here's a response from Icarus : As far as the Crossfire 2: I am not sure exactly, but Crossfire2s started shipping in late 2001, I believe. Some prototypes may have been made before that. I am working on finding out the exact date for you

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=67844;d=1 well, is it ? PS yes, I am humoring myself.

I really enjoyed this thread. Any new stories ?