jakee

I was talking about the speficific rules derived from religious scripture and i suppose that what i should have said was that they are then no more or less valid than any other proposed set of morals and should not be set above or below what anyone else might suggest until you actually think about and evaluate them. Obviously bibles have good points, dont kill/steal etc. but then on the same level don't carve graven images! It seems to me that the divine rules of conduct are similar to sociological rules because THATS WHERE THEY CAME FROM. religious text just writes down what the good people are doing anyway and adds random worship related rules to keep everyone interested. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

But then you still have to step up another level, the design of the entity powerful enough to concieve and execute the design of the universe requires another designer OF the designer, any way you cut it you end up with a list of designs stretching to infinity, which brings us back to the original, most perplexing question, where the F*** did everything come from? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

And when you flip onto your back how much does that affect the pressure around where the barometer is? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Do you believe that one is divine? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

you are right, it is easy to cross euro borders and the US has at least as much natural diversity as Europe (mountain ranges, deserts etc. But culturally it is completely different. Not only does each country have at least one language that some of its neighbours don't (often 2 or 3) but the way of life and culture in other countries can be totally different, you really feel like you have discovered somewhere new, rather than same people different background. Even going from what was east to west germany can still make a big difference. Not to mention the fact that one city, say paris or florence can have more history than the entire US of A Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Then surely it's time to pass down a new document. With the increased knowledge we have of the world around us isn't it time we had a new prophet who show's people how it all works in a way that makes sense now, like gods Unified Theory of Everything. Apparently he sent the last ones down when people lost their way and forgot the message, have things got better since then? Kids grow up, is it time for the next stage of our "education" We could have a model thats a damn sight better though, and for the first time EVER the whole world could see it live on CNN. I thnk the latest theory was something to do with the big crush at the end of a previous universe creating enough energy and matter density to break through a dimension and explode out the other side. Seriously though it is a mystery and I don't think we'll ever know just how the universe started. I just don't see why that means everyone should take the easy way out and believe in some bite size easy to swallow explanation of higher power formulated thousands of years ago and split off and redefined a million times since then. The other side of that thought experiment is that since we, our universe and our timeline are finite and god is assumed to be infinite then what did he do Before. Most people left on their own for a few years go crazy, that might explain a lot Do you want to have an ideagasm?

well first off there are the things that have already been discussed along the lines of the seven day creation, adam and eve and all that but the argument for that has already moved into the "take it figuratively" stage. (which begs the question, who decides what is figurative and what actually happened) I don't know what your image of god is so its difficult to show how it may have been contradicted but lets take the example of a soul. Pretty fundamental to most faiths as the idea of a conciousness/ morality of a person that goes to a nice fluffy place when you die. Used to explain emotion and stuff. With biologists and chemists and EKG machines and CAT scans looking inside the brain finding which lobes and neurons relate to which of the brains functions surely it becomes apparent that without the brain there can be no intelligence, emotion or in fact any kind of conciousness. Could relate that to advances in zoology/anthropology? teaching chimps to sign, finding out how much emotion and conciousness they have when surely animals are souless and therefore without conciousness. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Cool, find out what it was. Hmmm, wonder where it came from. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Same thing happened to the english printers union, I think it was the early 80's. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

I'm just going to add to that, the bible is not the only absolute word of god/gods/devils/demons out there, nor is it the first. I very much doubt that the old testament was the first religious pamphlet to be spread around either so how do you KNOW that your book is the true book when the majority of world opinion is against you? (no matter which religion you follow more people will disagree than agree with you) Do you want to have an ideagasm?

The way I see it the bible's justification for laying out these moral guidelines is that they were handed down by some huge power that both created and controls everything. You can't make all these commandments without having serious clout behind them. The idea of the god figure creating and controlling everything (especially in the way's literally described in the bible) is becoming increasingly contradicted by scientific advances. If the justification for the moral rules is contradicted by science then the moral rules themselves are shown to be baseless and worthless. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Sorry, i'm not sure whether you're joking or not, do you really want to pay ski resort prices for a weekend at the dz? Or should they make the hotel money elsewhere, like by selling that big expensive turbine? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Back to the sillyness for this reply. Didn't the first bloke to see him have to be told who he was? Besides, a few hours of pain followed by a relaxing weekend away in the highest spot in heaven doesn't sound all that bad to me. Seriously though, look at the source material you've got. A action witnessed, told to someone, retold a few more times, translated, translated from the translation, lost, found, copied in triplicate etc. How exaggerated are most stories you hear in the bar after the fifth round of drinks have been sunk? edit: i wonder how many that witnessed the crucifiction remained jewish. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Ya might want to check in on the circumcision thread. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Thats kinda my point. How can anyone say that they know the will of god when so many other people fervently believe that they also know the will of god, feel it deep in their soul, but its telling them to do the opposite of what you are doing. Just like the kids on the israeli buses. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

There are a lot of people out there who are willing to believe that the tricks of any magician are actually real. There are even more people that think that the appearance of a new planet/ kuiper belt object will have serious influence on their lives (even though it's been there all along). All these people are willing to disregard what they have been taught about physics, chemistry, biology because they have faith in this other stuff. To me that has a legitimate place in a theological discussion and does bare comparison to your comment about jesus. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So, at various times during the 2000 year history of your faith either some or all of its followers/ practitioners have been mistaken. How do you know you're right? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Seriously, Blaine goes up to some guy on the street, throws a card through a window and the guy is amazed, doesn't have a clue how it's done. To the guy on the street he's just seen something that he can't explain by his scientific reality. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

But they thought it was. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

So does david blaine. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

For a church going christian to admit that then they'd have to agree that the church is only human. What's the point in that? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

The north pole's in India? Oh, and how the hell much is Rs 13 lakh? 13k rupee's? 13M rupee's? Actually how much is A rupee? Do you want to have an ideagasm?

spitfire, 6X, GUINNESS, newcastle brown, waggle dance (mmm, honey beer) and pretty much any I.P.A. So many beers, so little time..... ooh, just remembered, marstons pedigree, excellent, excellent beer. Do you want to have an ideagasm?

woohoo, i beat someone! i only got 14, probably couldn't get that many UK counties though. hell, I couldn't even name 14 counties Do you want to have an ideagasm?

Does this mean I can't hate the french any more? Do you want to have an ideagasm?