Reginald

Bad news Dave, this has long since happened. Having done some 4 way I can tell you that teams practice out of Otters and compete out of Otters. And when even an intermediate team is doing 200 or 300 jumps a season training it is a big deal to get a different plane and door configuration thrown in. That said, personally I'm jump out of anything I can get a lift ticket on, unless it's a 182 of course. The 4 way guys I know are some of the more generous skydivers I know in terms of sharing their expertise with newer jumpers. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Let me change that to "should be allowed to earn a coaches rating" I don't believe that everyone that gets a rating should be allowed to do the job. That rating means a MINIMUM skill level has been demonstrated nothing more. I have to disagree. Truly falling straight down is much harder than most people think! In fact it may be one of the hardest thing to do. Also, observing means seeing exactly what the student is doing right and wrong and being able to explain it to them and teach them how to improve on the next dive. It takes a LOT of skill to be able to do that properly! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

That is an 8 way from a no grip exit! Great way of bringing lower time jumpers into the tradition of the sport. On my SCR I calculated there were 30,000+ jumps of experience on the 8 way; I contributed 87 of those. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

You're on track, but geet that number down to 80. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

This is the key. If you rigger has any questions about it he should call Air-Tec and discuss it with them. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Do a search for "beer rules" they can be a bit over the top but a case upon graduating AFF and a case when you get your A license is a good start. A couple of other cases is not a bad idea either. Personally I don't like beer (Mandy will tell you I'm a wine cooler kind of a guy but the reality is it's Whiskey). The beer is a way to socialize and meet people. One can just bring the beer and it will be tucked in the "school beer fridge" and handed out at the end of the night. Another idea is to bring a cooler of beer and hand them out at the end of the evening to everyone - staff, experienced jumpers, etc. It is a way to introduce yourself to people. It's a big DZ and even though experienced jumpers are going out of their way to meet new jumpers it's easy to get lost in the shuffle. They want to get to know new people so help them out by introducing yourself with "Hi, I'm Edward and I'm bring beer for my first whatever" Just so you don't think it is all students. Ernie (the chief instructor with 10,000 jumps) busted the beer line (landed 2 feet inside the spectator area) and bought a case of beer on Saturday night. I owe beer for my first titanium and when I get to jump again in a couple of months my first jump back from surgery. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

I had the same fear as a student. I talked to Ernie about it and he looked at me and calmly said, "well we just start the skydive a little early then" For some reason I never had the same fear again. And to mothergoose I think you will find people have strong reactions against saying skydiving is "safe" 'cause it isn't particularly. When I teach a FJC and people ask questions I tell them the truth. If it were safe we wouldn't have to sign waivers. That said it is a personal choice and one that I choose to make. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

In stores today. i got my copy under the table last night. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Whoa, just got a copy of the new Pink Floyd PULSE DVD. I’m melting in my chair and I’m not even on drugs. Nice 5.1 surround sound and lots of bonus features. I saw a couple of shows on this tour…I think I did anyway as I have a few ticket stubs somewhere… If you’re a Pink Floyd fan, and who isn’t, pick a copy of this one up… "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

from a neighboring democracy. like Texas!?!?! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Well this argument is silly. Where are these $50 coached jumps? I’ve recently hired Airspeed members to coach me and paid less than $50 a jump! Unless you are misquoting someone I find it totally incredulous. $50??? Maybe if that includes the students’ lift ticket and gear rental too PLUS the coaches fee. As for pilot pay, the only pilots I know of get something like $23 a load flying turbines. And they get to do 3 loads and hour! Must be nice making $69 an hour. Let’s see doing AFF even if there are enough students I max out at about a jump every hour due to ground training and prep. Trust me I don’t get $66 an hour. Coaching students end up paying less, as it takes more time on the ground and hence pays less per jumps… God bless the pilots, but I don’t exactly think they are getting screwed and "coaches" making out like bandits. And just for the record no one gets paid from the DZO to the packers if fun jumpers or students aren’t jumping due to weather, etc. I just think your figures are bogus and hence your argument is baseless. Personally, any work I do with students I do for the love of it. The money is not a factor in the decision. I just love seeing the light in someone’s eyes when they come down off their first jump or achieve something they never thought they could do. The reality is there is not a lot of money in skydiving for anyone. I wish there was but it is just not so. Most people on a DZ are making a conscious decision to get part of there compensation in experience. Ron (the nicely dressed one…with the scar on his neck) "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Well, remember the jumper himself stated "Winds were 11 to18 with gusts to around20-22." and that he was "flying and landing backwards” so don't shoot me for thinking he was telling the truth about the conditions. Regardless of if it was a USPA DZ or not if the winds were hitting 22 he should not have been jumping as a matter of common sense both by him (who should have read a SIM by the time he was out of AFF, USPA DZ or not) and by his instructors. I know students are hard to keep on the ground regardless of weather conditions but the student himself says "I WAS advised that I probably should not jump. MY poor decision" I’m glad the winds may not have been as high as the student initially claimed but I still wonder why he was going backwards, while landing off, why he was advised not to jump and why he did anyway. Long story short I'm tired of seeing people jumping in winds they shouldn't be jumping in and breaking themselves. A simple tib/fib is a 6 month layoff. It is much better to miss a few jumps than a whole season. I know plenty of non-uspa DZ's that are excellent establishments and very safety conscious and some USPA DZ’s that aren't. Regardless, I really am sick and tired of people making bad decisions about winds and getting hurt. I haven't been in the sport very long and I can't count how many people I know that have been injured jumping in too high of winds; dozens at least. It is possibly the single biggest cause of injury I know of in the sport and such and easy one to address! Stop the madness! Okay, rant off…flame away…. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Well, there are lawyers and accountants that spend their lives answering this question. If the new owners bought the "business" than they probably are on thin legal footing. If they bought the "assets" and started their own business with the new assets than they probably are within their rights. Regardless, io legal issues the common sense business issues are more troubling... "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Now that's funny! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Non USPA DZ, they don't have to adhere to the SIMS. ~ Then adhering to some common sense might be a good plan. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

And just to emphasize that mean the high gust not the lull between gusts or an average over time. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

So as a good student I'm sure you've read the SIM; what does it say your wind limits are? You are lucky you didn't end your jumping for the next 6 months. Well being stable at pull time is important, but at your experience level even if you are unstable you should pull at your assigned altitude. Don't spend the rest of your life trying to get stable... "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Well, arms in is only one part of the equation. The head and chest perched up causes a person to have to extend their legs farther out too. Legs out avoids backsliding from the air spilling off the front due to the position of the head and chest. So, although arms are in, legs are out generating drag, and hence no additional rate of fall rate is imposed. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

LOL! That's a good one. It is amazing the power beautiful women have to make men stupid... "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Well, first of all your team has other issues you guys need to fix first. Second, I disagree with people that a mantis is inherently faster than a box this is a common misperception. If it is than ya probably ain’t flying it right… Flame away… "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

I've never found that in the manual can you point out where it is exactly? It would be a good learning opportunity for me. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

This is NOT a downsizing guide! It is a minimum sizing guide. "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

Just finished AFF? Wait until you are MUCH closer to geting your A license. Just my opinion... "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

QuoteA DZ isn't Disneyland, but it's also not a strip joint. Quote Well, we could have a whole thread on just that comment alone!

QuotePart of this problem is the yuppie skydivers. They come out, make their 5-6 jumps and run home to get cleaned up and go out to eat. When I started...Oh please, this is making me sound old....people would come out, make as many jumps as they could and HANG OUT afterward. They would all smell bad from a days hard jumping and no one cared. Quote Hey didn't you run down to the far end of the runway and hangout in a comfortable house at the end of the day last weekend? What about the common folk in the trailers drinking cheap domestic beer? We need love too! Quote I will jump with a friend no matter how good/bad/ugly they are. Quote Are you calling me ugly? OMG, you've never even jumped with me! I must REALLY be UGLY! Okay, seriously, I see too many new people not taking the time to try and get acclimated. Beer works! It gives a new person a chance to interact and introduce themselves to the experienced jumpers. I go out of my way to make new people feel at home but it is a 2 way street! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP