toni

To all: - BASE here is Tolerated If everyone knows how to do it right, behave and act in a self-responsible manner, it will stay that way. (The meaning of "self-resposibility" (without the need of regulation by police/goverment) makes part of the swiss/europe mentality.) (Thanks for the Italian Support ;-)) It is tolerated because of the good will of the people there: Local People, Air Glacier, The farmers For their help and support, you might bring the farmers some good bottles of whiskey you brought from home, special schnaps and wine, sure they appreciate it if you do as well. Air Glacier, they like chocolate, flowers, etc... This little things does make happy people and help increase the amount of tolerance we are happy to get from this people. Even it seems unnecessary to mention, I repeat it again: - Easy freefall: Even this *might* be true for some exits, this is not the case everywhere!!! Neither underestimate the Spots nor overestimate your skills. - Waterfall: Keep jumping to a minimum, this spot is very close to the village. I suggest to, if you stay longer and absolutely want to jump this, do it just once early in the morning. There is no need to regulate (because regulation means responsibility, and noone has any interest to take this. Use your brain, the people in the village are still traumatised (I spoke to one last week) from the Guys who jumped during a funeral!!! - Trash / Garbage: Don't leave anything there!!! It is not nice to see this bottles, red-bull cans, etc anymore. And the Guy who left tons of duct-tape at serveral exits last week should learn to fly with a bowling ball whenever I see him littering exits... Replaceing old ropes is possible however. - Exits: Don't touch the exits. They are opened that way and jumped that way too. Don't cut trees, this is bad attitude! The Guys who completely rebuilt the upper Nose Exit jst because they couldn't do a correct 2way otherwise already know they did wrong. I hope not to see this anymore. - Landing: NOT IN HIGH GRASS. Cutting the grass on a fields where several jumpers walked on in a pain in the a... for a farmer. The pushed down grass gets stock in the cutting machine and every time this happens, the farmer has to get out of their tractors, remove the stock grass by hand before they can continue to cut the grass. Go check the landings before you walk up. If you don't see any options, don't jump or go to talk to the farmer. - Call Air Glacier - Be safe and spread the love - Most Important: Be nice to the locals Be nice with them, even if you think it sounds strange but paying loads of beer and coffee in the morning after, sharing girlfriends, packing others parachutes is considered good behaviour and is normal there.

Salut Julien, Better: Seems the sail slider WILL induce off heading openings. ;-)) What did you do in this jump? Did you track? You get harder openings on this delay if you pull in tracking or not stopping enough the track. If the object allows, you can try by not tracking at all. I always roll the nose as small I can. But I keep the center nose open (at these sub-terminal delays, at terminal, the nose is hidden and only a small part is looking outside), real real tight direct control and indirect control to help keeping the lines in place while packing (Note that I don't have vents on my canopies) Hope it helps A+

This is an interesting statement, and I'm curious how many people feel this way. Certainly I feel that a BASE mentor ought to be a very experienced jumper. Where I differ from the above is that, since I've never met somebody in BASE who wasn't an adult, my feeling is that what you do is, at the end of the day, your choice. Regardless of what we think, when one of your students is injured, you are likely to feel some personal doubt or guilt. To expect an instructor or mentor to never question themselves, to never ask "couldn't I have done better to prepare the student?" is probably not realistic. Humans cannot just shut off their emotional responses. When you guide someone, no matter how hard you try to make things as safe as possible for them, you still feel some responsibility when they are injured. Thanks for mentioning how one mentor might feel about this. True, everyone is responsible himself about what he is doing and nobody can make you responsible on what someone else is doing, but responsibility is not all. For me takeing someone with me means more than just showing the skills and knowledge about it. It's also considering the time you spend together learning, the days, weeks, months and even longer. Finally you end up as very close friends spending much time together. So I am thinking if something happens to a friend... Personally, I would never take someone: - Whos skydivng skills are not perfect - Who is not a nice person (explanation above, big boobs might help also ;-)) - Who doesn't love beeing outside in nature and respect its laws love&peace

He James, How are things? Did you consider the altidute? Remember the exit is at 2600m, so I wouldn't take GPS data from the Italian Wall, where I think, exit is more than 1000m lower. Maybe take, to be sure, data from the famous swiss north face, where the exit is at similiar altitude. For me, WS, 200m at almost 3000m above sea level on a glacier (where it is normally a bit flat...) sounds for me as well as there is "PLENTY" of space, be sure the videomen at the bottom is not placed exaclty below the exit, the pilot might need that extra space of 1.80m. best wishes, peace & love /toni

I don't know what is more stupid, "Pulling low", "posting those videos here" or "thinking that this is cool"... Maybe I am just as old and conservative as Gil ;-)...

Where did you put the Break lines in reference to the stabilizer? Do you pull out the stabilizer and put the break lines well inside? And me too would have put a 38' for that delay.

The thing has about 180m of height. If you jumping it, best is either slider down, or slider up and open at the second walkway (makes a good 4 second), this also minimise the time under canopy... (Record there is 7 seconds, 5 freefall and 2 under canopy ;-)) Stay safe!

Instead of "gaining any margin of safety with more advanced jumps" you should say "survive even one of the more advanced jumps"...

It is normal here to pack the way you describe left side. I did not know that people do pack like the right side. don't understand people packing this way, since for me it is screaming for line-over. Additionally, we do a strong direct slider control (with black rubber bands ;-)) With this strong direct control I don't see any use of tape or a tailgate...

Shows again that this wall is not "easy"... (as I hear people sometimes) Had my experinces there too. One of those was an evening jump, wind only at altitude coming from behind-right looking down from the exit. Pulled normally at about 20' for landing at the "parete zebrate", where after opening strong downwind sucked us down. Useing the toggles, the canopy did not respond. Luckily only a very hard landing on the base of the wall was the result: "Mind the wind!"

Thanks Tom. I think all of us agree about the jump numbers, I did not want a enter a "what counts more for XY than something else..." discussion. So one might ask why you recommend any numbers if they can be interpreted sooo vaste? (I just wanted to say that 50 jumps in total on whatever configuration is nothing...) Another question: Is anyone at 50 jumps confident about his exit skills? As Vesa: "But what do I know ;-)" ...

Why do you recommend just 50 jumps? One having just 50 jumps doesn't know anything about base yet, neither I think the sub-terminal tracking skills are good... I'd rather see that around 200-300s are better (as the same applies for skydivers)...

Hello Joris, Sorry to hear that, apparently she'll be alright, but it needs time. /t. ps: sent you email.

Did you land below the big forest? Then true, a bit more is a lot...

I would like to see that people (as already the case in skydiving) understand doing a couple of hundreds slider up jumps before doing ws is best (those questions would be answered by then). - Any opinions on this? - Shoud the same apply with these new powerful track-clothes?

Solo jumps are good to test your pure instincts and your own comfort level: Things you wouldn't do solo, you probably shound't do within a group neither. We call this "group dynamics", and this can be dangerous sometimes. This are dynamics within a group, but it can also cause problems between groups (called "risky shift"). It is boring jumping solo, but I don't always have the choice...

Just to double this. Based on multiple accidents on this exits and one with a underhang slab on the other side. Either you do a maximum of 4 sec (which is the minimum you should do with a slider) or you go as deep as you can! This is to get maximum separation to the wall. Opening for instance at la mousse between 4 and 12 can ruin your day. Doing arials at those exits are different! You have to be sure passing the slabs or the terrace by tracking, especially if your manoeuvre did not go well... Also, that in summer on hot days the air is less dense, to tracking will be less effective too. And pleaseplease ask for information about spots and conditions. There is still people flying backwards under canopy sometimes, hurting themselfes when snowpack doesn't allow safe access... condolescences

I too am sick hearing that "since it is legal, we can do whatever we want" attitude. Those walls are really really near to get closed. Forever! In most of Europe, the attitude against the law is different. There is an applied law and a non applied law. And further, the law doesn't always reflect reality. A short explanation: The "since it is legal" should be translated in "since we are accepted" or better "since we are welcome". There was some time ago a site published on the internet where: 1. It is a very hairy jump and had multiple fatalities 2. Wind conditions aren't easy at all 3. Doesn't allow much orientation and for the point of this thread: 4. Is very close to tourists/civil people/workers and this people weren't quite happy to actually see jumpers going in (understandable). If they could, they would close the site (the border between could and actually do is very close) Forever! Another point of BASE689 is their wall on the internet "seems" easy. When you would take the time, ask the locals, they could explain you in detail on what to look and when it is dangerous to jump. To finish, I think for "our" spots: 1. ALL jump places should go from mouth to ear. There is never that much information about a site in written format. This will reduce risks on a most effective way, not anything written somewhere at some time by someone anonymous can replace that. 2. Take time to elaborate a spot. Take your time walking and maybe waiting for a local you contacted to show you the place, it is worth... Jump numbers are just numbers... Please accept this. If you're welcome, a local may show you some other secrets in their area...

Just to add a new opinion ;-) Going stowed with slider up can have following risks: - bad timing - bad body position - bad body position and the attempt to correct leads to bad timing Handheld with slider a couple of times helps to prevent this things. When you feel you're ready for new things, wait until the new thing just happens (and it will)...

I basically agree with Scott Jaco. BASE is pasttime as it may be life, as any other things... (Motorcycle, Mountaineering, Playing Golf, ...) What does make things dangerous for us?? I try explain what is my point of view: 1. Risk-management: By doing something, you agree to a certain risk. The risk is the interaction between what you are doing (activity) and how you are doing it (yourself). 2. Natural instincts Since we are born, we get a certain Self-Protecting instinct. The Self-protecting instinct we have gets smaller by rules and other artificially protected things in our lifes. 3. Destiny, bad luck, etc... (No need to elaborate). To put alltogether: In Skydiving, the Natural instinct is less required, since the rules are supposed to ensure security, to take care of that. The how we do it part of risk-management is just following that rules. In less organized activities (Clibing, Mountaineering, Skiing, and BASE) we need this instinct to do this in safety. So for me it all depends on how you make the things. I know of people who in BASE take less risks than a lot take in Skydive. I know of some skiers, which take more risks than the most people I know in BASE. I could state more examples and I think I am not the only one... "So it all depends"

I try to explain: "forced to do drop tests of their canopies?" So Tested canopies are better quality?? Do anyone know of a reserve with 700 openings?? How many times a new model reserve can be used?? (Funny to imagine someone with 100 Reserve rides...) The design issues of reserves also are different, pack volume, less expected openings, attachement points, ... The rigs are also designed differently: AAD compatible, small pack volume, reserve Bag... where this at BASE is not an issue. I think we are comparing apples with elephants ;-) anyway.

There are so many factors other than the time since packing. So I don't think a statistical analysis will prove anything on packing time. Further, standing on the cliff doing gear check, do you remeber whenever where you put the slider 9 months ago? On the original subject: The BASE canopy is better than the reserve, since: - Better quality canopy - You packed it yourself - Way simpler than a reserve

Hello Tom, > As far as I know, EF and Z are the most experienced french jumpers. There are others too ;-)) I think C should have that number... seeya

Sure, some french people should have over 2000.

Something I am really worried is the thing those two guys did (compared to anything written on this forum..): Actively Burn this Site!!!!! I think the post had nothing to do with our lost angel and other losts, and was no offend. "Tar and feather" is not deeply in our history (helvetitions just killed instead), but seriously thinking about it... Don't try to show up like those guys: 50jumps, camera, back exit @ la mousse, low dense air not event to mention the guy with the cam on the top. Even me with my small experience know that it shouln'd be that way. LB is still legal... We should all try to keep it that way. The rules are mentioned a million of times already... good healing anyway to this guy.