sabre210

Goldsmith. Once again you reveal yourself to be a buffoon of the highest order. You come on here and talk in platitudes and cliches and trot out the shit the you think the bulk of dz.com'ers want to hear in the hope of bolstering some kind of online reputation as a solid caring stand up guy. As harsh as it sounds my emotionally challenged little chum, Rene IS just a name and a statistic to those who did not know him. He was perhaps a father to his kids, a husband to his wife, a son to his mother, the best bloke in the world to his friends, but as no one has posted any information regarding him, to me and the thousands who read the list, he is just a name and a statistic. I can sympathise cos i've lost close friends, Sean being the latest, I can imagine and project but at the end of the day I have little to attach to the name other than he was a basejumper and the manner of his death. When you finally mature you will realise how far off the mark you are and how knee-jerk your response was. My comment was not a slur in any way, shape or form. It was actually a request for more information from those able to provide it so we can as BASE jumpers begin to understand the human element behind this pitiful collection of consonents and vowels. You asked if that meant by my reckoning Sean is just a name and statistic to you. Well, you tell me. Tell me what Sean meant to you beyond the fact he was a fellow basejumper. You're unbelievable. As i said in my previous post, Rene's death has not been overlooked, it has been dealt with privately as has been confirmed by fab777.

Hey Moritz Rene's death is a very tragic story but please do not confuse the issues and assume no one cares. People posting in response to Sean's death have for the most part had personal interaction with him. They knew him or had met him and because of this his death means more to them. Not only did i not know Rene, but until yesterday i did not even know of his passing. Furthermore, not a single person connected to Rene has come forward since his death and provided a personal picture or background information which might help others to understand the person behind what is currently a name and a statistic. Rene and Sean are both dead. What we write in these forums is not written to console them because they are gone and will never read it, but instead is for the comfort of those left behind who are grieving. I can only assume that those who knew him and those who wish to comfort those who knew him are doing so privately or in a French forum because were they here they would surely have mentioned his very tragic death and had they done so, i know many here would have offered heartfelt condolences. Rene's passing has not been overlooked, it has just been mourned elsewhere, make no mistake about that.

You've twisted this Nick and you know it. Nobody came here calling you an old schooler and ridiculing you because of it. You did however insult many of us by just slamming us all as 'mtv' generation x types who frankly didn't give a fuck about BASE and it's heritage. I never called Carl a glory hound, and for you to interpret it that way is obtuse. You did however level that accusation at an entire generation of jumpers out there who you seemingly have no faith in or respect for. You can contextualise it all you want, but when push comes to shove many of the videos today are born of the same motivations which drove Carl to make and distribute his. BASE does have it's share of problems with object access and protection, but the point i was making was that it always has had, and always will have. BASE does have it's share of pranksters doing daft things off objects for the glory or for the notoriety but again, I've seen the pogo sticks, skateboards and stilts pranks off el cap in the day. They weren't done in the name of scientific discovery or progress were they. I'm not having a go at you Nick, I just don't appreciate you having a go at me (indirectly of course). I have nothing but reverence for the pioneers of BASE, and I have nothing but respect for the bulk of jumpers who walked the path before me. I just wish you wouldn't generalise like that and tar many of us with the same brush. There are hundreds of good, solid, down to earth, respectful, humble, realistic, underground jumpers out there, still burning the torch. Don't give up on us yet. BTW his name was Sean Richards, not Shane.

Sean Richards, BASE 621, died yesterday after a dam strike in Spain. Rest in Peace Cheeky. ian

Chicken Licken springs to mind reading this post. Calm yourself mr DG. Things really haven't changed that much, and please stop re-writing history and even worse predicting the future (badly). If i recall, Carl was no stranger to hawking his BASE films. If i recall, you boys took the piss and lost El Cap[#] and I could've sworn i've seen oodles of footage of Phil Smith, Carl and co dayjumping antennas and buildings, not content were they under cover of darkness (hey maybe it was just for the video). And I've never met you, but i know what you look like.....how is that possible? Maybe you've had your 15 minutes already. The rest of the world won't inevitably follow suit. Who looks to the US for justice and fairness? Most of europe have felt the pain of what it is to be occupied and oppressed and have their freedoms seized from them. They will not throw away their rights and liberty easily. Not even in the so-called fight against terrorism. It saddens me to see how more and more your tone slides towards embitterment and phoney sentamentalism and further away from the notion of brotherhood which you have championed for so long.

In your case...YES.

So what? I biff in plenty with both toggles in my hands, never mind rear risers. Anyone who starts blurting the old cliche 'if you can't .......[add whatever here]....then you shouldn't be base jumping in the first place' is a spoon and needs a reality check. Shit happens, people fuck up, circumstances conspire. Want proof, check out nick dg's list. example one: anyone who can't deal with twists on a base jump shouldn't be......tell that to slim example two: anyone who can't exit without going head down shouldn't be......tell that to Dr. Nick example three: anyone who can't track well enough shouldn't be.....tell that to Carl Boenish. Step down off your pedestal before you fall down off it. Fucking up can happen to anyone. FACT.

It's a joke advert for some sports network. Fox sports i think. The campaign being along the lines of, no matter how specialist it is, we cover it. It's really well done IMO

well done and good timing. ian

Tom, it's your course so you've earned the right to teach them what you believe is appropriate, but I'm sorry, newbie jumpers have such little cause to be taught rollovers, tards etc that the risks far outweigh the benefits in my humble opinion. The 'emergency situation' scenario sounds like a rather lame excuse to teach 'cool' techniques through the backdoor. Firstly, the scenario where a jumper could safely self rescue is extremely rare and perhaps this knowledge will encourage jumpers in peril to attempt it when in fact the safest option by far would be to wait for help. We'll never know, but Terry might still be alive today had he not attempted his own rescue, maybe not. Like i said we'll never know but it is a distinct possibilty. Secondly, we both know that this knowledge is highly unlikely to be reserved by the newbies for those sole purposes. Given the techniques and knowledge they'll be doing unpacked jumps before they can even do flat and stable and probably off sites which are far from suitable for them before they've amassed the experience to even assess these sites safely. Unpacked jumps have a time and place in BASE, but that isn't in the classroom for newbies who have yet to jump with even a solid object behind them. Time spent thinking or pondering such jumps would be far better spent on the REAL life saving techniques in BASE. Like I said, you have earned the right to teach whatever you see fit but I genuinely think this policy is going to come back and haunt you. With respect ian

Oh, and i jump homemade smoke pants and not a professionally manufactured tracking suit. I definitely think a PF suit is worth investing in. My last jump at ITW i had the smokepants blow out at the bottom of the left leg which put me instantly into a sharp left turn which made for interesting visuals. ian

Gus exaggerates saying i was cooking it. I was doing okay for sure, but my best track is his worst and i'm still pulling a lot lower than him so there you go. Body mass to surface area does make a difference i am absolutely sure. Gus denies it cos he's 3stone and 8ft tall so what does he care. However, i do agree that you work with what you've got and turn your build into your asset. You have mass then you can use that to build up speed quickly. The trick is converting downward speed into horizontal speed. Don't ask me how....I'm struggling myself but getting better for sure. Nailing the exit and transition is imperitive. For kick ass tracks you can not waste any altitude at the top, so a speedy but smooth and efficient transition is essential. followed by a disciplined and rigid body postiton. Technique wise, I'll leave that to people who CAN track like Moritz and Gus (although if truth be known i've smoked them both on 2way jumps and they both know it). One thing is for sure. You want to get good at tracking, you just got to put the time in and make those jumps off cliffs. It's something you get a feel for. ian (aka hippo) thanks gus.

So i'm in Vegas in a month. Anyone know any locals? ian

You missed out rope jumping. ian

I hear you. The question of whether anyone cares how others define an object is perfectly valid. Does it matter to me if you call a bat a bird? No of course not. The tone of Matt's post is purely sarcastic however....."the log it for legal reasons" comment is proof of that. The thing is, in the great big scheme of things, only about 1 percent of stuff discussed on forums is of actual use. Apart from a very limited number of technical posts, and a very limited number of 'seeking locals' posts, the bulk of this forum and all others is just people who share a common interest yacking off. That's what forums are about. Joe sitting in his flat thinks "need to write up that jump i did...wait a minute.....is that a building or is it a span......not sure....wonder what others think. Hence these discussions and like you said, other related grey areas which people like to mull over: are tethered balloons base or skydives, are unpacked jumps real base jumps...is a low pull on a skydive wearing a base rig....blah blah blah.... None of it matters. Not one bit of it. But as you and Matt are here, i can only assume you both, at the very least, define yourselves as BASE jumpers. Well if you want to define things then why stop at that. In fact how can you stop at that? To be a BASE jumper requires you to define BASE. Why is a skydiver not a BASE jumper? Because they didn't jump off a defined thing! What defined thing? A B.A.S. or E.! Which are?? The examples you gave are equally valid ( and ultimately pointless i agree). Do 1000 jumps off the same object make you a more rounded/skilled/experienced/hardcore jumper than 100 jumps off 30 and if so why and if not why not? Just keep reminding yourself...... none of this really matters.....none of this really matters........none of this.... And since none of it really matters then why not debate pointless and ultimately deadend topics. At least everyone (the world over, BASE jumper or whuffo)is entitled to throw their hat into the ring and have fun with it, because unlike when you're standing on the edge of some unidentified structure only seconds from a possible gruesome end, it simply does not matter that much.

Hey....STOP THE PRESS..... Calvin isn't getting the attention he deserves. Can we please refrain from discussing, debating, arguing about anything that doesn't interest him. And Matt, with 57 replies it appears more people care to discuss THIS than the 21 replies (mostly by you and the jumpers involved) in the "Kudos to Nate P for climbing down, actually this is really a thread to tell people i did a floating exit off an antenna in 'hardcore' winds" thread you started a few days ago. If you don't care (like the bulk of people who read your posts) don't respond, and leave it to the people who do. Is that a deal? Can we run with that? Or maybe you could post a list of topics you feel you'd like to participate in..... ian

That old forum chestnut.... It seems to matter to you but i don't care routine.....I'm easy......honest.......why you getting so wound up.....zzzzzzzz If you didn't give a hoot we wouldn't be having this debate so it is something you care about and it is something you discuss with others. And naturally i'm talking amongst jumpers and their interested associates. Who else is going to debate this. Next doors cleaner? You spoke of heritage so I assumed you did think integrity mattered, because i can not understand why you would fly that flag if it's credibility was something you couldn't care less about. This is, of course, going nowhere fast. As Gershwin kind of wrote "You say potato, I say potahto....You say antenna, I say construction crane. Let's call the whole thing off."

Like i said, integrity in this context meant 'honesty' and to the 'masses' you refer to, nothing would be odder or more dishonest than pointing to that excavating machine posted by Gary above and talking of it as a building or antenna when patently it is neither. It is an object 'other than' a B.A.S. or E. and by accepting that, I think it protects the heritage you speak of by closing the door to ridicule and esoteric wranglings. ian

[reply it just seems wrong to accept Carl's vision, Carl's name, blatantly defy his definition, and yet claim you have "integrity." Listen to you. What utter gushing rubbish. Let me clarify. I am not defying Carl's wind definition. The objects are. Wind blows 'THROUGH' a building under construction. Does that make it an antenna? The wind blows around a skinned antenna, does that make it a building? If the answer to either is NO, then congratulations......you've just taken a big bold step into thinking for yourself and questioning a system which crowbars the whacky and somewhat unconventional world of tall objects into 4 convenient categories for the sole purpose of a readable and catchy acronym. I can see my heresy of popping all objects which don't righteously fit into the four categories B.A.S. & E. into a further general category of O has really shook your world, and the pedestal you have placed Carl on, to their very foundations. Integrity. I can only assume we've run into problems with the definition here. You've plumped for 'adherence' but i've gone for 'honesty'.

I'd log that as an O with a footnote that i just jumped a monster machine....and i'd be proud to say it didn't fit into any freaking category. B's are ten a penny, that is unique. As for a previous poster's classification of a dam, a smokestack and a water tower as a building............................WHATEVER deperado!!! Oh, and when it comes to the Wind definition, it doesn't work. A building under-construction with just the poured floors in lets wind blow through it like an antenna, and there are many solid antennas where the wind blows around them. The best way to classify an object is to ask a non jumper or go with how you would describe it to a non jumper without thinking. At least you maintain your integrity if you do that. Imagine an horizon with a variety of objects at varying distances. There's an tall office block, a smokestack, and dam in the far distance. You have only jumped the dam. Would you say to your friend - "i jumped that building over there" If yes, would he be thinking about the correct object? If it's ambiguous then it lacks integrity. ian

It depends if an on-heading opening would be preferable for this jump?

Holy shit........they let you out? ian

There are so many good people on the list who really shouldn't be there, and conversely too many people strutting around today who really should be that speculating on who could be next is such a long shot it's hardly worthwhile. Me. I reckon i'm in the danger zone right now. Enough jumps to think i've got the hang of it and too few to actually have. The one thing i might have in my favour is it never stops scaring me and i never cease to appreciate how quickly an apparantly good/easy/straight forward jump can turn bad. ian

I'll make the bet that the bulk of fatalities for the next few years won't be newbie inexperienced jumpers (1-50 jumps) but low experienced jumpers (50-500 jumps) trying to emulate the proximity tracking/wingsuit jumps and subsequent low pulling they see in various videos and on sdmovies. In addition, I'd be surprised if the current fascination with unpacked jumps and ongoing fascination with complex aerials doesn't claim a few who take those skill sets to completely unsuitable sites. There is a huge amount of peer pressure out there at the moment. Everyones dialled in to performance and safety margins are taking a back seat. That's going to get a lot of people killed (i don't exclude myself in this). Some jumps out there, well, you just got to go back to basics (handheld and flat and stable) and leave the jazz in the stashback. Not recognising when to static line against freefall; when to walk away against static line; when to go handheld against stowed; when to go flat against throw in a gainer; when to pull after 4 against pulling after 6; that's what's going to catch a lot of us out. Thinking it only happens to newbies who don't understand canopies is a big mistake. ian