GeorgiaDon

Well obviously a groveling "can you ever forgive me" sort of apology would be unhelpful for many reasons. On the other hand "I'm sorry you're upset" is usually a tactic to shift blame to the other party, basically equivalent to saying I'll do whatever I please and however that makes you feel is your fault. As in, telling your spouse "well yes I fucked your sister, if that bothers you it's your problem", and then expecting the marriage to carry on as if nothing untoward ever happened. I'm sure somewhere in the US there is someone with the diplomatic skills to convey a message that we messed with Iran's democratically elected government, and as an unintended consequence they had to suffer under a despotic regime for many years, and we regret that it turned out that way and probably wouldn't do it again (whether or not we really mean that). The current Iranian leadership doesn't help the situation, but even there 1) the leadership is not synonymous with the Iranian people, to whom our message would really be directed, and 2) we also had a hand in installing to current Iranian leadership, by doing whatever we could to undercut the previous, much more moderate, leadership. At any rate, Iran is there in the Middle East, it has attained the status of an important regional power, and responding with "suck it up Cupcake" would just perpetuate the policy of the last 8 years, which has been neither successful or helpful. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Actually, Klinghoffer was murdered by PLO terrorists, not Pakistani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer). Not that getting the right country to blame is important or anything (as in, when attacked by a bunch of Saudi fanatics, retaliate against, hmmm... Iraq!). They're all just fucking towel-heads anyway, right? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Depends on what the apology is for I think. Americans seem blissfully ignorant of the fact that the CIA in 1953 organized the overthrow of the democratically elected leader of Iran, and installation of a American puppet, the Shah of Iran. This continued a history of pillaging Persian resources for the benefit of foreign powers, and ushered in a long period of violent suppression of any and all political dissent within Iran. Thousands of Iranians disappeared in the dungeons of the Shah's secret police during the 25 years the Shaw was in power, and his power flowed almost entirely from US financial and military support. It is this history that led directly to the Iranian hostage crisis in 1979, and to the current state of Iranian/American relations. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/iran-fury.html Maybe a statement that we were wrong to mess with them like that could be a start to build a more productive relationship. Or, we could continue the policy of refusing to consider the possibility that our actions might have been wrong, and just keep on waving our dicks around expecting the rest of the world to jump to our command. Because, you know, that has been working out so well up to now. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I nominate Nerdgirl! Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

32 out of 33, and I'd quibble about the one I missed. So far skydivers seem to be outscoring the average citizen by a wide margin, although the sample is small and admittedly self-reported. What is really scary is the truly abysmal performance of elected politicians (44% correct, shown in the link with the test). Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Age (18 seems a reasonable compromise), and native-born or naturalized citizen is all that should be required. Others have written eloquently about the dangers of restricting membership in the club to certain classes of people (e.g. military service). The loss of voting rights upon a felony conviction varies from state to state; some have a lifetime ban, some have a difficult process by which rights can be restored by court order, and some have essentially automatic restoration after a certain number of years without re-offending. I agree with the latter; once the legally imposed penalty has been paid, and after a reasonable period of law-abiding behavior (say, 5 years maybe), people should be allowed a say in the type of government they will live under. I have some personal experience in "taxation without representation"; I lived in this country as a legal immigrant for over 15 years. There was a good reason why I was not allowed a voice in the government (as I was not yet a citizen), but it was frustrating. I did finally get through the naturalization process in August, so my first chance to vote (which I took) was in this election (yahoo!). I was a bit ticked off, though, that I had to keep proving my right to vote, first when I registered (as is entirely reasonable), but then again later because my DMV records had not been updated and still had me as a non-citizen. By the way, if anyone believes it's too easy to become a citizen here, I can tell you otherwise from my experience, and I know others who had a much worse time with the process. I do think there might be a bit more selection for the informed in the voting process, though. In particular, how about leaving the party affiliation of the candidates off the ballot? If anyone wants to vote on party lines, then they would at least have to learn the name of the relevent candidates. As it is, you could just go and tick every republican or democrat without any clue who the candidates actually are. It might be even better to have to write in the name of your chosen candidate (i.e., no names at all on the ballot, only empty boxes beside the position, for example President/Vice President: ________________), but that would open a whole can of technical and legal worms. Can you give us a title for your book? The web site just links to Springer's home page (about the priciest publisher around BTW). I might want to order it, or have the UGA library (as if they have any money ) order it. I tried to search for "nerdgirl" but somehow no-one by that name is listed as an author. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Well what you have, is an amazing talent for photography (just clicked on the link to your website). Those are just incredible photos. How much does all that gear on your head weigh, anyway? Sorry for the thread drift, please return to dissing/not dissing Bear Grylls now. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

What's up with the "Barry" thing? His name is "Barack". Is Barack too foreign sounding for you? Feel the need the whitewash it a little? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Francis S. Pierre served in the Canadian Navy in WWII, and is listed as a recipient in 1940 of the "Mentioned in Despatches" medal, which was given for actions deemed honorable enough to warrant official notice. http://www.rcnvr.com/S%20-%20RCN%20-%20WW2.php Not the Medal of Honor (or its Canadian equivalent, the Victoria Cross), certainly, but absolutely a "medal of honorable service". It's understandable that an American, not familiar with the various sorts of medals given out by foreign militaries 68 years ago, could become confused. It's not at all clear that Mr St Pierre himself claimed to have won the Medal of Honor (much less 10 times, which is absurd). And a really old guy who won medals fighting in WWII could be seen locally as an noteworthy individual, although "legendary" is certainly an exercise in hyperbole. What is certainly not honorable is the GOP's effort to purge voter rolls at the last minute, based on non-issues such as a person moving to an assisted living facility in the same precinct. Is it a crime for legal immigrants to acknowledge honors for military service received before they came to the US? Or maybe he is a native-born American who went to Canada to serve in WWII when it seemed that US isolationist policies would keep them out of the war. Thousands did just that. Are they criminals for even mentioning their valorious service in the military forces of a US ally? Or is your comment just another smear to discredit people who dare to object to GOP demagogery? _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I am so sorry. No parent should have to endure this. I'll be thinking of you, but I'm sure there are no words that could console you right now. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I heard that the stage was modeled on the Lincoln Memorial, and is a reference to the 45th anniversary of ML King's "I Have a Dream" speach (which was delivered in front of the memorial). Makes sense to me. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Here are some cases from the Innocence Project of people who were proven to be INNOCENT by DNA testing. All served years on death row, in one case 18 years, before being exonerated. None were released because of "failure to read them their Miranda rights or some such technicality". None were exonerated by "the System", in fact in every case "the System" fought to keep them in prison, on death row. They were exonerated by lawyers and law students, mostly working pro bono. Keep in mind that these people were exonerated because evidence was still available to be tested. Until recently many jurisdictions routinely destroyed evidence after conviction, and for many there is now no way to test their claims of innocence. Who can believe these are the only innocent people in prison, or on death row. All of you who are so quick to call for death, so bloodthirsty, click on the links. Read the stories of how these people have had years stolen from them, and nearly their lives. Look at their pictures. And think, if it were up to you they would have had a bullet in their brain long ago. We can't give them back the years, but at least they can try to salvage something of a life with the time they have left. Don http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/54.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/1176.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/77.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/149.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/176.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/184.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/190.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/192.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/196.php (this guy was the 100th death row inmate to be freed because of actual innocence) http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/206.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/576.php (this guy served 21 yrs in prison, 18 yrs on death row, for something he didn't do) http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/219.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/265.php (this guy died of cancer in prison, months before the testing that proved his innocence could be completed) http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/282.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/294.php http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/295.php _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

In the US you have a year to file after disclosure. So if you talk about your invention at a conference, publish, etc you can still file but you have to be pretty quick about it. In Europe and elsewhere, once you disclose you're SOL. Doesn't sound like that will be of any help in the present case, though. _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

For some history/perspective on the region (CBC, pretty objective commentary): http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/08/08/f-caucasus-quagmire.html#articlecomments Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I don't think anyone is arguing that he wasn't a poster child for "he needed killin'". The problem is that in their zeal to do it "their way", the State of Texas has established for all the world to see that: 1) Article VI of the constitution means nothing (as Rasmack has already noted), and 2) The "word" of the United States is worthless (unless perhaps when it comes to threats of violence). Our signature on a Treaty, our solemn promise to do certain things, cannot be trusted, because it can be ignored at will by any of the States. As a result, any and all countries are (at least morally) free of any obligation to allow our citizens access to US consular services, should they happen to get into legal trouble while abroad. It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of damage lawyers are willing to do in service of their clients. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Or perhaps from Newt Gingrich: (from Wikipedia) Newt Gingrich has been married three times. He married Jackie Battley, his former high school geometry teacher, when he was 19 years old (she was seven years his senior at 26 years old).[6][7] After an alleged affair in 1977 with Ann Manning, then the wife of a West Georgia professor, he sought a divorce from Battley. That was finalized in 1981. Gingrich refused to pay both alimony and child support. The local First Baptist church took up collections for support of Jackie and their children.[8] In 1981, Gingrich wed Marianne Ginther,[9] to whom he remained married until 2000, the same year Gingrich had an affair with a then 33-year-old Congressional staffer, Callista Bisek. He and Bisek were married in 2000 and currently reside in Virginia. He also told his first wife he was divorcing her when she was in the hospital recovering from cancer surgery. Election campaign stories that he had her served with the divorce papers in the hospital are, however, apparently untrue. Somehow all of that wasn't enough to disqualify him from being the leader of the "Republican Revolution". Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Georgia (USA) POPS FS record is 20, set Nov 5 2006. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Oops how embarrasing. I must have been using "conservative math" (kind of like "conservative spelling"). Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

There is no such line. The Bill of Rights applies to all people equally, because "all men are created equal", not "all Americans are treated equal". It's a beautiful concept, one that makes the US Constitution an especially enlightened and noble document. Americans have been trying to live up to it for over 300 years, but it isn't easy. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Either the Farm or Skydive Atlanta would be great choices. The Farm is northwest of Atlanta, and SDA is south in Thomaston. One or the other may be significantly closer depending on where your friend is located. Similarly, the tunnel in Orlando is closer if they are in south Georgia (about 6 hrs from Atlanta, only 2-3 hrs from Tifton for example), the one in Raeford may be a bit closer from northern Georgia (4 1/2-5 hrs from Atlanta). Hope this helps. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

According to the Atlanta news, some people have announced plans to test the law by carrying guns into the Atlanta (Jackson-Hartsfield or whatever it's called now) airport. Their position is that the law allows concealed carry in airports. To clarify, they believe this is a good thing. I'm curious to hear if people here agree/disagree. Personally I lean towards the "pro-gun" side, but I think it'll make for some problems for security if guns are allowed inside the terminals. Don (another Don, not The Don) _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Congrats Andy! You've covered a lot of ground since you were a sub-100 jump wonder organizing POPS record jumps at Monroe. I'm happy for you. Don C _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

I suspected as much. So you're suggesting that God evolved on another planet? Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Many people that I work with every day have this perspective. For them, it works well. Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

Hey Ryno, Oops sorry, I usually try to be more diplomatic in how I phrase things. I didn't mean to offend, and in particular I admit my interpretation of your comment about the suffering of others was way out of line. I don't actually believe you believe that, and I apologize for the insinuation. I don't doubt that you, and others who present things from a Christian perspective are sincere in your beliefs. I certainly don't consider myself more humane or "joyful" or anything else than any of you. I guess I felt the need to respond to some themes that come up regularly in these discussions, such as the idea that those who don't believe in God care for no-one but themselves, have no morality, etc, but you didn't say those things and I shouldn't have directed it at you that way. For me these discussions have a bit of an academic feel, and I neglected to consider that this topic is at the core of your self identity. I'm sorry about that. . Well, I'm not aware of any "bitterness" on my part. I think you are making assumptions about how I feel; perhaps because your feeling on the subject are so strong you assume everybody else has equally strong feelings about it too? I don't doubt that that is true. I'm sure we could talk about almost anything else and find a lot of agreement. No disputing that, and I actually wouldn't want to take that from anyone. Just trying to explain that there are other perspectives that are also consistent with the "spirit of love and life", at least as I see it. Peace, Don _____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)