storm1977

Hear Hear!!! That was my Tax money that sent the bastard to College!!!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Don't worry Anvil, Canada is smarter than that... They won't let him stay!!!! They know the cosequences of that if they do grant the refuge status.... There are 3 people in question. One of them will be allowed to stay, but his case is different.... He is a duel citizen of the US and Canada. Canadian law says he can stay since he is a citizen of the country. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Sure did. Before around 1977 I was very conservative. It was Ronald Reagan's brand of intrusive conservatism that turned me off. BTW, I do not consider the Bush administration to be at all conservative. They are pro big government, deficits, and pro intrusion into the peoples' lives. Anything after 1977... I mean, I wasn'r born until then anyway so I have no real idea wheter or not you are lying to me. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I think that is is a bit far off from what I was saying and somewhat unjustified. We live in a Capitalist society that runs on the notion of "Survival of the fittest" to some degree. If everything were equal and everyone had the some chances then this would be communism/socialism. It is not. As a parent, you need to take an active role in the education of your children. You can NOT expect that school and learning will passively enter your kids brain or that school is a place for your kid just to be babysat for 8hrs a day. Kids will fail, and though some kids can turn it around, it is quite obvious early in life who has a better chance at being successful. It is not the job of the Government, Federal, State or Local to ensure that your kid will be successful. It is your job as a parent.... If your school system is failing there are many options: 1) Elect a new School board 2) Get the kid in a different school 3) Get a tutor 4) Use the public library to suppliment your kids education. 5) Most importantly, BE INVOLVED in their education!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Here in the USA we live in a society that allowes us the ability to succeed, or fall by the wayside. The choice is yours.... Learning takes more than passively going to school. It takes a desire to self educate and dreams of becoming successful. Many of here are products of dedication and success, many are not. Life and learning are what you make of it. Everything is a choice. What do you want for your kids? If you want them to be successful then you will send them to a private school, you will be active in their life and their schooling and you will make sure they do what they need to in order to have the tools to be successful. From there, it is their choice of whether or not they will succeed. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I know what you mean, but I am not saying "FORCING" anything, however, if the Governer is Christian and wishes to put up a Chrismas tree on the Lawn of the Governer's Mansion, then so be it. Is it State Property? Yes, but he is entitled to his "Consious Beliefs" as per the Constitution and the Supreme Court. Therefore, he is not "Coersing the public" but instead freely expressing his beliefs at his residence during his time serving office. The same is true for a Jew, Muslim, and Satan worshiper. Now, I doubt a Satan WOrshiper will be elected, but if so, they too should enjoy the rights of their free and open expression. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Of course I did!!!! Dekker,, be happy I only put Bill and Kallends name on there!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I know this might sadden many of my fellow conservatives out there, But I have actually changed my view on the Church and State stance. Over the last few months I have been doing a lot of reading, and have been trying to find the roots of the issues at play. I recently read a Supreme Court Brief from 91 that made me change my thinking on the founding of this nation. With that being said, there are still some things I am frustrated by which I do not feel violate the Church and State Clause. 1) any state or local Government should be able to put up religious decorations. Why? because that is not state sponsorship of religion. Since our beliefs are legally of our own consciousness then the elected official has the right to represent that belief. The collective elected him/her and therefore their belief system. If the people don't like that officials beliefs, they can elect someone else. 2) Schools should allow any student to express their religious beliefs whether through symbolism or through words. It is the right of the people to do so, and not the right of the School to restrict religious view, it is up to the school not to "Coerce" or "Sponsor" religious views. So, what has changed for Me? The pledge... I do not believe the term "Under God" should be in there. Not forcibly in schools anyway. I think this brief was well researched and written, and is worth a read. Proof to Billvon and Kallend that us conservatives can change our minds . I wonder if you guys could ever do the same. Chris Here is a link to the 91 brief; http://washingtonpost.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/02-1624/02-1624.mer.ami.mcgraw.pdf ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

OK Bigway, this is where he lost me: War for Oil.... yup, that shows exactly how much he knows of the real issues and reasons we are in Afganistan and Iraq!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I agree with you. My conservative friends find my stance on abortion strange... as do my parents, since I am adopted and a conservative myself. I never really liked the term "Choice" but I can't think of a better term. My true belief is that I for one would not support an abortion with my Fiance' , but I for one won't stop someone else from making that decision for their own situation. That said, I think there are a lot of FUCKED UP laws out there that should be gotten rid of. First of all, if you are under 18 I think parental notification is a MUST! Also IMO second or Third term abortions are a no no... Obviously in some rare cases there are exceptions to the rule, but Once you know you are pregnant, and there is a question as to whether you will have that child, a decision needs to be made in a timely fashion. I am not one who believes life begins birth, but I am also not someone who believes live begins at conseption. Anyway... That is the catagory I fit in. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Uhmmm, so are you pro-choice or pro-life? I have been away a few days... Didn't even notice I did that Dekker!!!! Thanks for picking it up! PRO-CHOICE is what I meant to say.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Exactly, you guys need a strong government to tell people what to think and to get rid of those who don't think like the government. Uhmm......yeah......that kind of sounds like communism. No, you are wrong.... We said nothing about the government. We said anti-american. There are plenty of Morons that live in this country that hate it, and would like nothing more than to change it or see it fail. The hypocracy(sp?) of these people stuns me!!!!!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Ahhhh.... see you are wrong !!!!! I am Pro-choice!!!! I know, conservative republican, but yes it is true.... I am pro life. DAMN I have to stop agreeing with PK ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Then gays want to get married and the pendulum swings back the other way Seriously though, societal issues tend to move in more of a pendulum action, not constant expansion of "the envelope". Some people want one extreme, some want the other, most want what is in the middle. That's the way society and democracy works. But getting back to this issue, the fundamental key to it, IMO, is that like I said way back in the beginning of the thread, it seems to me that the parents, independent doctors, and primary care givers are much better suited to make these kinds of decisions than blanket legislation that can't possibly consider every circumstance. It would shock me tremendously if they were killing retarded children. And I'd bet that would shock the majority of people who are faced with the choice of euthanasia for a terminally ill and horribly suffering infant. Contrary to what you seem to be implying, the motivation for leaving a decision like this out of gov't hands is compassion for the suffering infant, not a desire to get rid of a problem. I know it is currently the Doctors call and not law, but it could head that way!!!! AS far as the other issue.... We can diagnos some conditions in the woom.. Downs Syndrome, CF, others... It is easy to assume that some people receive abortions based on diagnosis of retarded children. I think that it is fair to say that that occurrs. I can see with time this being allowed further and further through the pregnancy, and ultimately after birth. Am I the only one that thinks that? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Very true.... and many of them within our borders. When are we over turning Roe vs. Wade???? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

That has been going on for thousands of years. I can see a guy a couple thousand years ago saying.... No longer is Dec. 25th the Feast of Sol and Victus, now it's "Christmas" No longer is it sacrificing a boar to the Son of Isis. Now it is a "Christmas Ham" No longer is this tree a tribute to Saturnalia, it is now a "Christmas tre" PC will be the downfall of Rome. Your missing the Point..... THe point was that all this Political Correctness will be the down fall of the USA. No one wants to a\offend anyone else, and ultimately this will cause security and social problems in this country which will eventually undermine it. FYI- Communism is back in Russia, and there are many groups here in the US trying to bring it here too. It is a large movement in the US and many people don't even know they have been brainwashed into being part of it. Unfortunatly this country is going to have a major decision to make in the not too distant future. This decision will ultimately determine the success or failure of our nation as we know it. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Well, as you know PK, movements start out small, and then become "normal and accepted" Then people push the envelope just a bit... then that become accepted and the Norm..... Then they push it again. Wouldn't surprize me if in 20-50 years then are killing "retarded children". Woundln't shock me one bit. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I have always felt this way, however, the way they are getting around it now is by NOT calling it what it is: For instance... No longer is it a "Christmas" break, it is a Holiday break. No longer is it a christmas tree on the WHitehouse Lawn, it is a Holiday tree :-( Unfortunately, the majority will loose in this case. PC will be the downfall of America. Just remember, in the USA you do NOT have the right not to be offended!!!!! Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

I am just looing for an argument with you!!! It has been too long, and recently I have found that we have been agreeing too much.... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Well, Old is all relative right??? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Old news... He spoke of this in October and said he would probably step down. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

OK, I feel bad for you, and I hate to see people having tough times, but.... It is NOT the governments fault that your Wife is a slut, or that you chose to marry her, or that you got her pregnant more than once.... None of these BAD decisions were the Governments fault. When ever you or I make a decision, it has a consequense down stream. If, your wife is a slut as you say, I am sorry, but you need to get a Lawyer or a better lawyer, and make her more responsible for the actions which caused your break-up/ separation. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

It is sad...... And everyone wonders why we say Fuck the UN. The Euro's get mad at the US for not trusting the UN, but what has the UN done for Peace other than line their pockets..... ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Yep and there was a shooter on the grassy Knoll, oh yeah, and we never really landed on the moon and the holocaust didn't happen!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty

Tactical Nukes in IRAQ????? Glad to see you are an informed citizen of the USA (sarcasm)!!!!! ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty