GaryP

Interesting... ... I have a Mojo280 with the same tailgate config - just a tailgate pushed thru the c-line attachment point where the line joins the canopy. When jumping slider-up I remove the tailgate & replace it with the slider-stow band. Also this canopy (Slim's old purple 280) has no DB settings so it pretty much mirrors what Avery described. I've had no prob's with this setup ever but as mentioned - there's no other brake setting to make packing a problem. The tailgate has always released if that's your concern. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

It is what it is and it aint what it aint! Problem for you (also at one time for me) is you have some sort of notion of what it's supposed to feel like based on SOMEONE ELSE'S experience (rush - adrenaline etc). While looking for something that's not there you are missing what is REALLY happening - YOUR EXPERIENCE. I suggest you give-up looking for someone else's experience in your own jumping and start experiencing what's happening to you yourself. Give up trying to find what's missing and start looking at what's really there. Jumping isn't a panacea or a fix-it for your problems, it's just a jump. Relax - enjoy - have fun. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Yes to what Hookit said and more: http://www.dropzone.com/gear/articles/The3RingWhatItIsAndHowIt.shtml g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Fantastic Thread - I'd like to add my experience and management technique of hypoxia. This is on dives up to 14K without supplumental O2. The usual experience of a climb to height for me was where I'd relax (sleep) from ground to about 11k then be active from 11k to exit from gearing up and psyching up on jump-run. What I found was that during the relaxed bit to 11k I was breathing very shallow and slowly - thus raising the co2 levels in my blood. Then, when 11k came around and it was time to be more active and use more o2 - it wasn't as readily available in the thinner air. This cycle of shallow breathing down low and active breathing up high was so apparrent that I reversed the cycle and found that it was best for me to SATURATE my bloodstream at lower altitudes by breathing deeply (slowly, semi-hyperventilating on air) while still resting for say 4k to 6k and then remaining at rest until the usual jump-run where I'd use meditative processes to keep overexertion to a minimum. This would raise the o2 levels in my blood. That way I'd find I would have available o2 in my blood at height when I needed it most and when it was most scarce. Other things that have helped - not singing or carrying-on during climb to height and turbo-prop aircraft. Hope someone finds this of help. g "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Jeb is a really nice guy. He is extremely focused on BASE & wingsuit flying, loves all things black, abstains from coffee, alcohol, ciggs, sugar, food additives and if anyone could pull this off I would certainly think he has a good shot at it. He also has Divine Power on his side - he once told me he'd consider a Biblical name if he was ever to sire a boy. "Matthew? Luke? John?" I asked...."Satan" he replied. All this talk - "will he? won't he?" reminds me of a time when we thought that freefallin 250' was not possible, that 130SqFt is the smallest canopy flyable, that a 100way could never be built and so on. This WS landing is not far from being achieved, it's human nature to pursue it and so can't help but think it's gonna happen - someday. Loic-Jean has show us how much closer we are to this end. Of course there's still some hurdles to overcome but I don't think it's outside the realm of current technologies. Good luck Jeb!

I know it sounds cliche but - have the canopy be an extension of yourself. Know every line group and what it does as 2nd nature. Yeah - explore your canopy, know your canopy, be your canopy and every part of it - including your rears. When I'm reacting to an off-heading I'm just reachin up instinctively - sometimes grabbn a riser and sometimes a toggle and sometimes the lines themselves - all reacting to different scenarios and all (so far) the correct choice but I never have to think about it - I just do it as autoresponse. Gotta say CRW has helped me get to this stage. Anyone who says per se that your rears are death are just flying limited and can't handle the fact that other ppl are more attuned than they are ot their equipment - don't listen to 'em - they don't know shiit. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Well, I think any doubts Nick had about keeping the list have now been completely removed. In taking what was a private conversation public, Jason has probably galvinised his stand. Nick, thanks for your tireless work on the list. Apart from being an exremely eye-opening awareness builder it's also a very important tribute on a personal level for me. Australia has nothing to gain by it's removal. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Someone said in a prior post that it may be that Jeb (or whoever) will choose a track running slightly across a particular slope. This way he could adjust his track left or right (up or down) as another way of matching the relative approach speed to the ground. This would also give the option of aborting the run by just turning down-slope and therfore moving away from the ground. It would also give more choices for a selection of a suitable LZ. Sorry I couldn't find the post to credit the author but I thought I'd bring it up again given all the talk of finding the perfect slope. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Well, it IS true. Both distance fallen and time taken are related to each other and either can be used as a standard of measure. This is only so when the airspeed is constant though. The reason they use the measure of TIME in AS-8015B is because that's the only unit that can readily be measured "in situ" for a falling canopy/jumper assy. You can't measure the distance fallen as readily for that particular test but you can easily measure the time taken. Also, the variable of what speed the jumper is deploying adds too much complexity to the test if figures were used for the distance fallen over different deployment speeds. The test needs a simple standard to measure deployment efficiancy. THAT'S why they use time as a preferable unit in AB-8015B. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Frenchy68 hits it on the nose - "parachutes" (p/c, bridle, canopy, lines, risers) open over a given altitude - not time. With that said - it takes more altitude to get bottom-skin inflation when deployed at or near terminal than it does when deployed from low-speed (such as a chop). The 1000' reference that a lot of ppl give is accounting for chopping, possible delay b4 reserve dump, RSL vs no RSL, need time to set up for landing, experience etc. Given all these variables you will commonly get this figure of 1000' quoted when you ask this question. It's a coverall and certainly has it's place in instruction as a generalization. My opinion is, with some exceptions, that most reserve-setups have similar p/c and deployment specs and that you'll find most systems will give bottom-skin inflation at about 200' from the p/c leaving the jumper on a low speed deployment and about 300' from a p/c deployment at terminal. All reserves have to be configured for high speed deployment (bag, slider up, small p/c) and that's why the low-speed performance isn't that great (F'falling from 150' with BASE gear isn't that uncommon). With that said you can add height for the variable needs such as setting up to land, etc. Also, note that you asked "How low can you chop?" and these figures don't take the chop or any delay into account, you gotta add that too. I wrote this today 'cause I think that the advice of 1000' is too high and may even work against you one day by preventing you carrying out a neccesary procedure because you've been scared into believing that if you chop under 1000' you'll die. Just make sure you have a plan and drill yourself thouroughly. Think the jump all the way to the ground and not just to dump-time. Be on the ball as time thinking is a big waster of altitude. Someone somewhere said "Never let your canopy take you anywhere your brain hasn't already been" (or something like that). Have fun - stay safe g. OzBASE86 "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Ditto exactly what riggerrob said. Place the rig on the ground - packed as you would (except P/C) and try to pick it up using the bridle - if the rig pops and the bag lifts out then go jump it. Bear in mind that pin pressure will be less during this test than when you are wearing the rig - try to keep this in mind when testing. Also - the spec's he gives on the reserve is also correct and important. The grommets don't need to line up and from most rigs I've seen - rarely do. You do have a bit of leeway by lengthening the loop but dont do by more than 10mm without getting another opinion. This should be enough to handle an extra 20sq/ft in most containers. Also- don't worry if the bag seems tight in the tray - as long as it lifts off with the above test. The combination of a stiff and much too long a closing loop has caused total pack closures but it sounds as if you are nowhere near this problem yet. The person that's in the best position to ok your rig is the rigger that's viewed it - whilst it's important to take nothing as gospel in this sport and to question advice at all times you have to put trust in those that have experience until you gain the experience yourself to make you own informed choices. Go jump! Have fun g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Hi Jason, respect .. I think it a bit rich to suggest as you do in your starting post that Nick's List is responsible for the negative perception of BASE jumpers in the general public worldwide. You seem to infer that it's removal from public view will result in a better view of BASE worldwide as a whole. Again I think this is a pretty big call. You can see (maybe) that most of the ppl posting replies here, your peers, are staunchly in favour of it's existance and mostly in it's current form. As some others have said there's a lot of other issues that BASE'rs need to address both in your country and elsewhere to have this mostly negative view of BASE changed. Basically, BASE'rs need to lift their game in many areas and look inwards and answer the question "have I done absolutely everything possible in the way I've acted and the way I've pushed my colleagues/friends to act" before looking to blame one single web-page for the ills that have befallen BASE worldwide. Also, let's remember that we will always be up against that which drives at the very heart of humanity and it's perception (and ignorance) of our sport - the fear of falling and the fear of the unknown. Knowledge dispels fear and I feel that exposing the public to more knowledge on legal and competition BASE, and just BASE in general will eventually get us what we are looking for. It is already happening - slowly. Don't blame "The List" - it is too valuable a reference to lose. You give us nothing tangeble as evidence to back up your claim that it's removal will be a vast betterment - you only give your opinion which is not enough to get my vote for it's removal. Also, whilst you say it's detrimental to BASE worldwide I really only see your agenda being the push for legal BASE in Nat.Parks in YOUR country. Don't let other countries lose this valuable reference for an agenda for which they have no gain. Having The List made public is the only way it can really be kept as up-to-date as it is. The recent addition of #56 from Peuro Rico is an exaple of this. Keep The List Let's get a poll going. Thank you for allowing me to vent. G. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

On entering New Zealand a customs dude there voiced his concern about seed dispersal from the canopy at altitude. Having told him it was a skydiving rig his concern was where it had been packed last (on grass??). I assured him it was always packed indoors and never on grass . Pleading with him to get sniffer dogs or anything else he needed to NOT open the canopy so I could catch my connecting flight (departing in 10min) seemed to work. When you think about it - it's a valid point - packed on the grass in one country and then dumped at altitude over another. Not good g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

This I like ! NOW I'm happy ...and what's best - it's simple. In Eastern Oz our most jumped S has an area about 15metres long at the exit pt along the railing with MULTIPLE layers of electrical tape on it. I was once pushing for ppl to at least use WHITE tape (white painted railing) to minimise the visual impact but found myself to be the worst culprit in the end. The council wokers clean it off every 3 months or so but it is still a real eyesore. This system would really minimise this mess. Onya' DexterBase mate

Like duh! I'm was making a reference to something that's just arrived from the manufacturer NEW and has 0 jumps on it - it should not be thought to operate correctly just ' cause it's new. The original poster asked is anyone was still using their old F-111 canopies and I gave them an instance of this happenning, but I guess I can't help it if ppl read other things into my post. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Never assume new condition guarantees correct operation. I have an Oz built X-228 (serial # 007 - no kidding) with over 3000 jumps on it. Yeah it has patches and all and I dont skydive it just 'cause I own better gear BUT chances are if it opened 3000 times then it'll open for the 3001st. (I'm gonna get flamed for this ) I still use it for salt-water BASE when the need arises (low speed deployment slider down only). It's nearly a quarter century old but it's still fine for that purpose. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Hi 903 -You have posted 2 different setups/pic's. Your 2nd pic shows equal force applied to both ends of the break-cord. I agree that there is no mech advantage with this setup. Your 1st pic shows applied force travelling up the line and around the anchor point and back down to the load (break-cord). It does not travel up the line and then do a turn along the break-cord, it pulls from a point that has a mech advantage of 2. I know it "looks" as if everything is static but it's the unseen "load" that is the determining factor. Your 1st setup is similar to a climber being belayed with his foot caught in the rope as it's being pulled down by the belayer. Anyway - to make absolutely sure of my comments I'm going out to get me some spring scales myself - maybe I'll be back tomorrow to eat some pie , just maybe. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Hey 903, I just love your carry-on S/L set-up but I can see one problem with it. You have the load travelling AROUND the anchor point and back down the "off" side where the break-cord is. This is essentially a pulley setup giving a mechanical advantage that HALVES the load on the break-cord. That means you need 160lb of pull to apply 80lbs of force to the break-cord. This force required would increase even more if the anchor point isn't smooth allowing free travel of the line. A simple solution would be the addition of a break cord on the "pull" side in the series. This would still provide the "carry-on" effect no matter which cord breaks 1st - and I think you'd find that this added cord WOULD be the one to break 1st. Just my 0.02 985 PS - I LOVE electrical tape

So - You think yourself as a "master of the fabric" who is above the need to jump BASE specific gear. Forget the tour-of-duty, ground-crewing or even getting to know other BASErs. You are so above all that - oh my God I wish I were you. Sorry dude but you need to follow protocol & buy BASE specific gear , humble yourself and give yourself over to the advice that's available or go back to jumpn airplanes. Converting some skydiving gear ??? This 'aint 1982. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

You DON'T need to make the mouth of the bag close over so that the grommets meet the other side. Bands stretched across the mouth and canopy visible is FINE. Just make sure the lines aren't retained too tightly by the extra tension placed on the bands. When trying to get a canopy in the bag it's best to hold the pack-job and move/mould the bag around it rather than holding the bag still and forcing the canopy into the bag. I usually sit my S-folded canopy ON TOP of the bag (with the mouth folded open and upward). Lke this, the rear-corners of the pack job are already near the rear of the bag and all I need do is carefully reach under and open enough of the mouth of the bag to pop the pack job inside. Then, some more wiggling and nudging and the canopy is now pretty much in the bag and now I can use a bit of pull force to close the bag. Likewise when putting a bag (or free-canopy) into a container, hold the bag and mould the container around it to fit by pulling each flap around and over the bag rather then forcing the bag into the container and reefing closed with a pull-up. Dedicating one hand to holding the pack-job still whilst using the free hand to manipulate the bag or container around the pack-job is the best way to do this and it retains the integrity of the pack and promotes on-headings. Just my 0.02 g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

An awareness of the relationship between object and jumper on deployment should keep you switched on as to which way your canopy is flying. Paramount in your mind should be making sure your canopy is not flying toward the object. Forget kicking out the twists - reach up and grab a riser group ABOVE the twists. It's pretty easy to identify lines coming from the left or the right of the canopy and to just grab a bunch of lines on the side you wish to turn and REEF them down. i.e. do everything you need to to just turn the canopy away. Twists can be kicked out after this - or even landed. I'd rather land twists than object-strike. Maybe I've been lucky - every time it's happened I've been able to reach above the twists with no problem. Maybe other set-ups and rigs have longer risers and may be more of a problem to reach up. Again, this has been the case on my gear but I'm sure there are rigs out there that are prone to line-twists being higher up than what I'm used to. Where the twists actually end up is hard-wired into the canopy's geometry and could probably be determined prior (on a skydive maybe -forgive my suggestion, what was I thinking). My experience has only been with 1.5 to 2 twists (thank goodness). Cya - g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

I'm a BASE'r and rigger (Oz Packer Class "A"). There's no other group of jumpers that pick every aspect of canopy deployment and opening than BASErs. With that said, it all really comes down to what the particular rigger is "competent and familiar" with. One thing I'd like to touch upon is what I call the "single parachute mentality" that comes across from some skydivers who preach to me that jumping with a single parachute system is foolish. ALL skydivers who jump with only one reserve are saying that they are willing (in the event of a chop) to put themselves in freefall with only one parachute (your reserve) on EVERY JUMP. Again... by the fact that you are willing to chop if needed on every jump you are saying that you are WILLING to be in freefall with only one parachute EVERY TIME. Your reserve setup IS a single-parachute system. Anyone who is not willing to do this should have a good hard look at themselves and start jumping with a tersh. Reserves are not a magic panacea. They are just ANOTHER parachute, just like the main with just a couple of small differences. It's just that they are built to a more stringent standard and are packed and maintained better than a main but for the most part are JUST ANOTHER PARACHUTE. And it's been my experience that almost ALL mal's have somewhere come back to the human element - either through poor maintenence, execution or packing. Parachutes have a finite life. This is a constant. The variable is the human and the choices they make. There are BASE'rs that screw-up and there are skydivers that screw-up. Also, the performance requirements of BASE canopies and reserve canopies are different - a 180 with line-twists is an acceptable opening for a reserve but not for BASE. So I'd agree - apples and oranges. A rigger/packer who also BASE's would definitly have an edge but this isn't all that makes a competent packer/rigger. I'd definitly not trust someone who was not prepared to jump their reserve pack jobs in a single parachute scenario. No way. Cya - g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

A WARNING ON THE USE OF MASKING TAPE !! The behavour of masking tape is very different when the tape is even slightly damp or wet. When dry - the tape tears easily but when wet rather than tearing most brands tend to "scrunch" up forming a strong mass that is really hard to break. And I mean REALLY strong - stronger than pvc tape. More correctly, it's strength attributes don't change but it's behavour when wet does (i.e. it doesn't remain flat enabling a tear - it does form a strong mass of tape). Try for yourself. Don't use it where it may have a chance of getting even damp before it's intended breakage. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .

Jonny says in that post (in many more words than I use here) that the anchor point (either a stronger break-cord or stronger hand-grip) on a PCA results in the canopy's bottom skin spreading further after reaching line-stretch resulting in more canopy spread at the point of breakaway and hence - faster inflation. The stronger grip holds the canopy for just that little bit longer allowing the spread to develop further before breakaway. Way long ago we were using d-bags (with anchored saftey bridle) and for the low shit we attached a break-cord inside the d-bag from the canopy attachment point to the bag itself. With this break-cord in place the top of the canopy was held up with the bag-holder's hands until the jumper reached line stretch. The results we got was pretty much full inflation of the canopy after about 30'-40' after it left the bag. When I despatched my mates I was always seeing inflated top-skin at about 30' down - really impressive. The canopy would be held high in my outstretched hands right through the deploymnt sequence. NOTE that this is the distance the canopy travels from the mouth of the d-bag and not the jumper's fall which incorporates the line length and jumper's height. In other words, inflation about 30' after line stretch. This was on non-BASE specific gear with shallow brake settings and no tailgate. The results were pretty consistent - sometimes even better so I expect today's gear to perform at least the same. g. "Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it" .