Would you encourage this?

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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i wasn't aware of any set laws, only recommendations. i don't really understand how
only a number can determine a persons skill level; shouldn't that be based on more than just one criteria? thanks!

Is the reply I received from a guy that contacted me about buying my GTI(DZ classifieds). I asked for DZ information and contacted the DZ. They said this person is a heads up guy and has the right equipment but has less than a 100 jumps. I refused to sell the suit to him

He mentioned jumping with a lot of BirdPeople at his DZ and doing a bunch of tracking dives. He mentioned wanting to buy an S3 but people telling him to go with a Classic or a GTI.

There must be Birdpeople encouraging him if he feels that he is ready. Would you encourage someone like this to fly a wingsuit rightaway?

Kris.

[Jib 0]

Doesn't Birdman require 200 and a first jump course to jump one? Otherwise 500 jumps? Having done over 200 regular jumps and a first jump course, I wouldn't encourage it.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[speedformula 0]

Ditto

Keeping it real 22x7

[leroydb 0]

i would concur mr postman

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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Doesn't Birdman require 200 and a first jump course to jump one? Otherwise 500 jumps? Having done over 200 regular jumps and a first jump course, I wouldn't encourage it.

I did not want to sell due to possible liability. I also want to see if anyone on here thinks it is o.k for people with less than 200 jumps to fly a wingsuit.

Kris.

[FeetFlyer 0]

there is no way a person with less then 100 jumps could have aquired the right amount of experience for jumping a wingsuit. his body will not know what to do in a dangerous situation.. the musclememory has to be trained a lot to be able to react correctly without thinking about what to do first.

<>

[diablopilot 2]

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also want to see if anyone on here thinks it is o.k for people with less than 200 jumps to fly a wingsuit.

You asked me that question once. What do YOU think?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Tonto 1]

Not OK.

I can't understand what the hurry is. Skydiving - probably more than ANY other sport - can be done for a lifetime.

Whether it's a faster canopy, BASE, Wingsuit - whatever - WHAT'S THE RUSH?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[fenceline 0]

Good call in contacting the dz, I hope they weren't insinuating that he'd be a good candidate to buy the suit when you mention "heads up". Frankly, not everyone has the skill at 200 jumps, let alone 100.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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Good call in contacting the dz, I hope they weren't insinuating that he'd be a good candidate to buy the suit when you mention "heads up". Frankly, not everyone has the skill at 200 jumps, let alone 100.

I would not sell that guy the suit either, no matter how long he told you he was going to wait. 200 minimum with proper instruction and in-air coaching, 500 recommended.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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also want to see if anyone on here thinks it is o.k for people with less than 200 jumps to fly a wingsuit.

You asked me that question once. What do YOU think?

I think it is not o.k. I waited until I had enough jumps and lots of exit and deployment practice. The reason I asked you that question was not because I thought I was ready. It was because there was a possibility at that time of me having to return to India and not know ing when I would get to jump again.

I don't remember how I exactly worded it but the intent was "If I have close to 200 jumps but not quite 200, can I jump a wingsuit?"

Kris.

[VectorBoy 0]

I don't remember how I exactly worded it but the intent was "If I have close to 200 jumps but not quite 200, can I jump a wingsuit?"

Kris.

[DaMan 0]

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I think it is not o.k. I waited until I had enough jumps and lots of exit and deployment practice. The reason I asked you that question was not because I thought I was ready...

We all think we are ready for anything at less than 200 jumps...

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I don't remember how I exactly worded it but the intent was "If I have close to 200 jumps but not quite 200, can I jump a wingsuit?"

Kris.

I'd say NO - however, I would sell him the suit...

Now that I have everyone's attention - here's my thoughts behind that statement:

Sell him the suit. Ship it to his closest/chosen BMI. He can try it on with the BMI. BMI keeps the suit safe with him/her until he/she feels the guy has the skills needed to jump it - the guy should be happy because he got what he wanted: a proper fitting, used suit. You're happy because you're less responsible for the outcome of his first jump and the BMI knows what's going on with a new bird.

Isn't that the point of getting a BMI if you have less than 500 jumps - proper safety for a new bird and those around? It would be a slight risk of damage/theft for the BMI, but it would also begin a good relationship with a future bird...

Ok - the debate begins....

Z-Flock 8
Discotec Rodriguez

Too bad weapons grade stupidity doesn't lead to sterility.

[bodypilot1 0]

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I'd say NO - however, I would sell him the suit...

Now that I have everyone's attention - here's my thoughts behind that statement:

Sell him the suit. Ship it to his closest/chosen BMI. He can try it on with the BMI. BMI keeps the suit safe with him/her until he/she feels the guy has the skills needed to jump it - the guy should be happy because he got what he wanted: a proper fitting, used suit. You're happy because you're less responsible for the outcome of his first jump and the BMI knows what's going on with a new bird.

Isn't that the point of getting a BMI if you have less than 500 jumps - proper safety for a new bird and those around? It would be a slight risk of damage/theft for the BMI, but it would also begin a good relationship with a future bird...

Ok - the debate begins....

I think it's a great idea to get a BMI involved in the transaction if the person really wants to buy and learn how to jump a wingsuit.

But, it's kinda like a jumper buying a high performance canopy thing.

It would be great if we could send the equipment to a responsable person and have them keep it and evaluate when the jumper is ready to jump it.

Tell him if he really wants to buy the suit he'll need to get a local "BMI" involved.

Be safe.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[PhreeZone 15]

Closest BMI around here is 3 - 4 states away. Plenty of experienced birdies though that could do the transaction. I like the idea of getting their mentor involved.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[nicknitro71 0]

Nice post dude! I concur 100%

What is going on man? Still jumping that S3 of yours? I see you and your lovely wife next time I fly down.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[KrisFlyZ 0]

I will consider this option if Bolas(he contacted me first about this suit), is not happy with the fit. He has the suit out at the Harvest moon boogie.

Eric the guy lives in Florida, should be plenty of BMI's around.

Kris.

[bodypilot1 0]

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Closest BMI around here is 3 - 4 states away.

Then I guess thats just one more reason to get a BMI rating isn't it!

The BMI rating is designed by Birdman for safety and the correct way of instruction on flying the suit, just the same reason the tandem rig manufacturers have a rating for the rigs they manufacture.

People might think that it's just to get money from them, but it's a guideline for safety set by the manufacturer.

If anyone is really wanting to see wingsuit flying grow bigger in the sport, we need to set the guidelines for safety and become more involved in what the wingsuit makers are setting for basic guidelines, rather than trying to be "Rebels". (i.e. "I'm not going to pay for that rating when I know I'm good enough, and I can teach anyone even if I dont have the stupid rating")

The rules will be set for flying the wingsuits, and if we dont get the rules straight as the wingsuit community grows, people that have never even jumped a wingsuit will set the rules for us guarenteed!

Be safe.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[DaMan 0]

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...Still jumping that S3 of yours? I see you and your lovely wife next time I fly down.

Absolutely - hope to see you sometime. PM me when you plan on visiting again!

Z-Flock 8
Discotec Rodriguez

Too bad weapons grade stupidity doesn't lead to sterility.

[VectorBoy 0]

If anyone is really wanting to see wingsuit flying grow bigger in the sport, we need to set the guidelines for safety and become more involved in what the wingsuit makers are setting for basic guidelines, rather than trying to be "Rebels". (i.e. "I'm not going to pay for that rating when I know I'm good enough, and I can teach anyone even if I dont have the stupid rating")

Ed

[bodypilot1 0]

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What do you recommend those that operate and mentor in other than the bird-man brand suits do in this case Ed?

Regardless of what type of suit it is, just having the proper instruction guidelines by that particular suit maker is wise.

For instance, I wouldn't suggest going to someone with a Sigma Vector rating for instruction or advise about a Strong rig now would I?

If you are qualified to Instruct on a certain type of suit, then only teach someone how to fly that curtain suit, as they are not all the same flying style as far as body position or emergency procedures.

Having a structured teaching environment set in place for wingsuits is something we need to do as the sport is just in it's beginning....AGAIN.

Lets not have a start to all the DZ's banning wingsuits in the future because we were stupid for not setting up our own structured guidelines for them.

IMO if your going to instruct on how to fly more then 1 style of suit, take the time to get the manufacturers rating for teaching in that suit.

Be safe.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[PhreeZone 15]

As far as I know there is no manufactor rating for Matter, S-Fly or PhoenixSuits.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[VectorBoy 0]

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As far as I know there is no manufactor rating for Matter, S-Fly or PhoenixSuits.

And I seriously doubt there ever will be for those manufacturers, just my opinion. Now I do believe that the various governing bodies may inact some kind of instructor rating system if the need arrises, lets say as a result of too many inccidents. But as it stands right now some people with enough jump numbers and experience just buy one, read the manual and fly one. Others with questions and the desire for help , regardless of experience, seek that help out.

[bodypilot1 0]

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As far as I know there is no manufactor rating for Matter, S-Fly or PhoenixSuits.

Cedric did tell me they have a Matter suit rating when I was jumping the suit with him a few months back in Perris.

As far as the S-fly and P-Fly suits I'm not sure...

IMO if you are going to take the time and money to make, sell and distribute a suit on a large scale, it would be good for them to set up a structured rating program to teach by.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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Now I do believe that the various governing bodies may inact some kind of instructor rating system if the need arrises, lets say as a result of too many inccidents.

My point exactly!

This is what we want to try and avoid!
By stopping the accidents BEFORE THEY HAPPEN from the lack of a "structured" Instructional Program.

We need to show that wingsuits are safe, if instructed correctly on how to fly that particular suit and before someone just shows up at the DZ with one they picked up off the internet and jumps it not only injuring himself, but possibly involving others.

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com