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PhreeZone 14
The fatality in Kansas was with someone with I believe 3 previous successful Birdman jumps so even having a BMI would'nt have assisted there.
I've tried to get my BMI when I was in FL last year. Was told they needed at least 3-4 people to make it worth their time. Less then 2-3 months later they held a course for a single person that was a local.
I've tried to get my BMI when I was in FL last year. Was told they needed at least 3-4 people to make it worth their time. Less then 2-3 months later they held a course for a single person that was a local.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
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ManBird 0
Doesn't JP have Matter's answer to the BMI rating?QuoteMatter instructor rating? News to me! In fact last I heard the guy that was going to draft it bailed on Matter and really wants nothing to do with the company.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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ManBird 0
As I understand it, improper pull technique was the major factor in the fatality. Improper pull technique doesn't guarantee an incident on the first jump. In this case, it took four jumps. Proper instruction from the start could have made a big difference.QuoteThe fatality in Kansas was with someone with I believe 3 previous successful Birdman jumps so even having a BMI would'nt have assisted there.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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Improper pull technique doesn't guarantee an incident on the first jump. In this case, it took four jumps. Proper instruction from the start could have made a big difference.
Yes properly rated AFF instructors never have a student use an "improper" pull technique. Never happens, only with the nonrated AFF instructors.
. Do you really believe what you wrote? You are stretching it Steve, but we still love ya!
Doesn't JP have Matter's answer to the BMI rating?
Pm him for his answer to the Matter BMI rating.
ManBird 0
I said that proper instruction would have helped, not that it had to come from a BMI.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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I know what you meant Steve. As skydivers we are taught to pull stable. During AFF ( or whatever training method used ) there is an instructors hand there to keep you stable.
In wingsuit flight you really need to pull stable. Thats on your first flight and everyone after that for ever! And there willnever be a hand there to keep you that way during deployment, ever. Still wanna flock?
In wingsuit flight you really need to pull stable. Thats on your first flight and everyone after that for ever! And there willnever be a hand there to keep you that way during deployment, ever. Still wanna flock?
ManBird 0
I'd heard it was more of full flight pull issue than just instability. That's one part that might be lost on people without instruction.
I'm tired and need some sort of sandwich.
Of course. I don't take these message board things seriously. Pay no attention to what "tone" comes across online.QuoteStill wanna flock?
I'm tired and need some sort of sandwich.
"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"
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Of course. I don't take these message board things seriously. Pay no attention to what "tone" comes across online.QuoteStill wanna flock?
"Still wanna flock"? is a question for the potential wingsuit neophyte, I know you wanna.
Still wanna learn to fly wingsuits if there is nobody there to save you from yourself, cuz even if there is someone there they can't grab, correct and save you if you get into trouble.
What an instructor or mentor can do is give you a full briefing on equiptment, what to expect, the flight pattern. Provide hand signals, corral you, get video, answer questions, debrief, try to put you at ease, try to remind you to relax ( very important ), make it look easy.
No wait it is easy, it is easier than you think. It is very natural despite having your arms and legs bundled up. Easy, natural and safer than it was in the beginning that is for sure. Robert P And Jari have fullfilled their original dream of bringing wingsuit flight to the average skydiver not just extreme stuntmasters, I still remember the original website.
PhreeZone 14
This one? http://web.archive.org/web/20010201083600/http://www.bird-man.com/or this one? http://web.archive.org/web/20020723031549/http://bird-man.com/ 
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery
Parachutemanuals.com
And tomorrow is a mystery
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QuoteI do hear talk of some DZ banning wingsuiting..... not in the real world just on this forum and just from BMIs. Which makes me wonder if a certain amount of protectionism scare tactics aren't in play rather than real world discussions about real world problems.
This is news to me and hopefully not true.
Though I think structured wingsuit instructional programs are good for safety, I can almost garentee you that some governing body will implement some future program on flying wingsuits, requiring some sort of documentation showing you have been trained properly by a wingsuit instructor of some sort.
But thats just my opinion....
QuoteThis is exactly the case when an event is coming up and there isn't a BMI to be found for miles.
Not good event planning there is?
Securing the person you planned on coming before the event is a wise idea dont you think?
QuoteThe non rated wingsuit pilot with a handful of spare suits is welcomed with open arms and made a hero for their efforts to help some people get a first jump.
Hero? Who are you kidding?
They aren't a HERO for getting students on their first jump, they are just keeping the planes flying to make them money.....
QuoteThere are some non rated WS pilots out there with skills an knowledge to share.
Very true.
QuoteIn some regions they are more skilled and knowledgeable than most BMIs who would be scarce if at all available.
Again possibly true, but the guidelines set by the manufacturer have been taught and that may be all the governing body will want to see for safety so they don't have to get involved.
Not all instructors teach the best or fly the best as goes with any discipline in skydiving.
QuoteOut in the field ( and in these forums) there are the potential first flight student who wouldn't dream of a FFC without a rated BMI and will happily wait for one to come along.
There are also people that think jumping at a non USPA rated DZ is more dangerous just because it's not a group member of USPA.
The fact is it's their choice as to where they jump and and how they'd like to be trained and whom by.
QuoteThen there are those out there that think the whole BMI thing is a scam to get more money out of a jumper.
Think what they may, but like I said, when USPA starts requiring some sort documentation they are qualified to jump a wingsuit they'll wish they had done something before hand to have some sort of rating, as their wingsuit sits on the gound when they show up at a DZ that doesn't know they are great in the wingsuit.
QuoteAsk youself what have you done to put this rumor to bed or if you have helped perpetuate it.
First, I didn't know there was a rumor, and 2nd I'd like to see wingsuit flyers take the responsability of keeping the first time wingsuit flyer knowledgable on every aspect of the wingsuit and also show the general skydiving community we do have a structured instructional program for which ever suit it is you choose to jump.
If you dont agreem with the program BM has in place, remember it's all about CHOICE my friend.
Be safe.
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
Quote
Eric it may have been before either of those although the first one does have "the" quote towards the end of the history page.
riggerrob 558
In the long run, we expect CSPA, USPA, etc. to take over the whole BMI program, much like they are gradually taking over training tandem instructors.
Let's face it, manufacturers are best at sewing and distributing, while aero clubs are best at training.
This will be a slow process, just as slow as them taking over training TIs.
I have discussed this with a couple of CSPA Course Conductors.
First, CSPA is an all volunteer organization and the Coaching Committee only meets two or three times a year.
Secondly, CSPA is too busy now revising their coaching program to bring it in line with new Sport Canada guidelines. Since funding is tied to those guidelines ......
Third, only a couple members of CSPA's CC are TIs.
In the long run, we can expect to see CSPA Wingsuit Coach 1, USPA Birdman FFI, etc.
Let's face it, manufacturers are best at sewing and distributing, while aero clubs are best at training.
This will be a slow process, just as slow as them taking over training TIs.
I have discussed this with a couple of CSPA Course Conductors.
First, CSPA is an all volunteer organization and the Coaching Committee only meets two or three times a year.
Secondly, CSPA is too busy now revising their coaching program to bring it in line with new Sport Canada guidelines. Since funding is tied to those guidelines ......
Third, only a couple members of CSPA's CC are TIs.
In the long run, we can expect to see CSPA Wingsuit Coach 1, USPA Birdman FFI, etc.
Ed never have I heard talk of banning wingsuit flight except from these forums and from BMIs, you would be the second BMI who has stated it. Where did you hear it from? Is there a problem out there?
There may be some form of mandatory training and documentation by the uspa if there is a need and example would be if there are a bunch of incidents and accidents. So far the wingsuit world ,as small as it, is has been fairly well behaved on the DZs. The sky is not falling.
When I refer to not being able to get a BMI for training or an event I'm not referring to what happened in texas recently. I'm talking about boogies and other occurances, where not just wingsuits are featured, the other load organizers are there. Some other manufactures are there with their canopy demo team but its still hard to get BMIs there, even though there are BMIs are in the region and may work at the various DZs in other capacities. The BMIs are too small in number to be everywhere I know this. Some BMIs are just busy with other things. Some, I imagine, only got the rating as a token to pad the resume or to entice sponsorship not to actually train anybody.
But here is a kicker when the BMI is on the very dropzone where you are training at for a few weeks or a month and you still can't get training from them. I'm not talking about a single event either. This is where those pesky rebellious mentors do the vast majority of the first flight courses by a very large margin.
If you ask the students how they feel about the mentors getting them in the air. I'm pretty sure they'd be grateful, maybe they would even use the word hero. In most cases they didn't charge a dime and have no stake in how or why the aircraft turns. But if I could half fill a load because I personally turned some people onto wingsuits and they have gone on to get their own suits and wanna flock, then its my party time.
It really doesn't matter what I think about the BMI program. It does matter what the community and potential students think about the BMIs. They are the customer, they have questions about their safety and their skills. The BMIs need to be available to train. If the BMI is coaching or load organizing they better provide as promised as most likely the customer has paid money for this.
The truth of it is that if I worked even part time on the DZ as an AFF intructor, TM or coach I would probably get the BMI rating and drop the renegade status. But I have a job and I'm only on the dropzone to play. If someone comes up to me and says they just can't get into the air in a wingsuit ( and I will have verified they have tried ) with an available BMI through the recommended structured program. Then yeah you bet we will put them in the air! And I tell you what... it isn't going to suck!
There may be some form of mandatory training and documentation by the uspa if there is a need and example would be if there are a bunch of incidents and accidents. So far the wingsuit world ,as small as it, is has been fairly well behaved on the DZs. The sky is not falling.
When I refer to not being able to get a BMI for training or an event I'm not referring to what happened in texas recently. I'm talking about boogies and other occurances, where not just wingsuits are featured, the other load organizers are there. Some other manufactures are there with their canopy demo team but its still hard to get BMIs there, even though there are BMIs are in the region and may work at the various DZs in other capacities. The BMIs are too small in number to be everywhere I know this. Some BMIs are just busy with other things. Some, I imagine, only got the rating as a token to pad the resume or to entice sponsorship not to actually train anybody.
But here is a kicker when the BMI is on the very dropzone where you are training at for a few weeks or a month and you still can't get training from them. I'm not talking about a single event either. This is where those pesky rebellious mentors do the vast majority of the first flight courses by a very large margin.
If you ask the students how they feel about the mentors getting them in the air. I'm pretty sure they'd be grateful, maybe they would even use the word hero. In most cases they didn't charge a dime and have no stake in how or why the aircraft turns. But if I could half fill a load because I personally turned some people onto wingsuits and they have gone on to get their own suits and wanna flock, then its my party time.
It really doesn't matter what I think about the BMI program. It does matter what the community and potential students think about the BMIs. They are the customer, they have questions about their safety and their skills. The BMIs need to be available to train. If the BMI is coaching or load organizing they better provide as promised as most likely the customer has paid money for this.
The truth of it is that if I worked even part time on the DZ as an AFF intructor, TM or coach I would probably get the BMI rating and drop the renegade status. But I have a job and I'm only on the dropzone to play. If someone comes up to me and says they just can't get into the air in a wingsuit ( and I will have verified they have tried ) with an available BMI through the recommended structured program. Then yeah you bet we will put them in the air! And I tell you what... it isn't going to suck!
QuoteWhere did you hear it from?
If you have ever been to a DZ that is unformiliar with wingsuits, you'd know how they are leary of the safety and flight pattern of them being jumped at their DZ.
You must only jump mainly only at Perris?
With the multiple planes in the air, have you ever had the problem of incorrect wingsuit flight patterns that interfere with another planes jumper and jump run?
This would be something covered in the structured program.
QuoteIs there a problem out there?
Not yet, BUT, being PRO active, rather than RE active ,with be easier on "us" as wingsuit flyers!
Would you rather have someone that has never flown a wingsuit tell you how to, and what they think works better for safety?
Let's cover our bases responsibly, so to speak, before they do.
QuoteBut here is a kicker when the BMI is on the very dropzone where you are training at for a few weeks or a month and you still can't get training from them.
Thats not good, but a BMI does not take some type of "oath" that requires him to teach everyone when they want him to.
For instance, you are a student and show up at the DZ and the AFF Instructor is sick and cant jump, do you just say hell, I'll just get training from someone that thinks he's ready for the AFF Instructors course?
I'd bet not....
If we had more BMI's or MTR2 or S-Fly Instructors out there, we'd have the resources for getting good instructors at anytime we wanted.
QuoteThis is where those pesky rebellious mentors do the vast majority of the first flight courses by a very large margin.
Not pesky.
This is where you are seperating the person that makes thier living from Instructing, and the person that just does it for fun and wants to give back to the sport. Though he gives the course for FREE it's better he has taught from a structured program and has a rating.
I worked for YEARS as a "I dont need the money USPA AFF and Tandem Instructor", because I had a real job out side of skydiving, and never did I think I wanted to teach anything without the proper training and rating to do so.
Whether you ever get a wingsuit rating on the type of wingsuit you jump is your choice.
All I am saying is it better for the wingsuit community to have a structure program for teaching safety in the particular suit they are going to jump (such as a BM, MTR2 or S-Fly rating), the correct flight patters and a documented log of the the training recieved, and from whom, because eventually it will be required.
Glen, I dont knock ya for wanting to get more wingsuits up in the air and not charging a thing for it, hell, I instructed for quite a while giving my pay to the people that did it for a living because I had a real job outside of skydiving.
All I am saying is, lets avoid possible accidents or fatalities, by teaching a structured program for the safety of flying wingsuits, and that may mean getting a MT2 or a BMI rating of some sort.
But lets make the rules and guideline before someone else does that has never flown a wingsuit.
BTW, I'll be down at Perris doing The Right Stuff 16way Oct 30th.
I'll be at the DZ on Friday about noon and all day Sunday, I'll have my wingsuit too if you'd like to do some flocking jumps?
Be safe
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
leroydb 0
Also to add to this... Just because you have the number of jumps DOES NOT mean you are ready to jump a wingsuit. But also note that there are the few out there that progressivly learn quicker than rest of us. So While the manufacture req number of jumps is good, overall it is just a guide.
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But here is a kicker when the BMI is on the very dropzone where you are training at for a few weeks or a month and you still can't get training from them.
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Thats not good, but a BMI does not take some type of "oath" that requires him to teach everyone when they want him to.
For instance, you are a student and show up at the DZ and the AFF Instructor is sick and cant jump, do you just say hell, I'll just get training from someone that thinks he's ready for the AFF Instructors course?
I'd bet not....
Leroy
..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...
..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...
No Ed I jump maybe 50% at Perris, some at San Diego, and Elsinore.
Really the only place that is strict enough to require special wingsuit flight area that I know of is Perris.Oh, and Rantoul but that was after I asked. Perris regularly has organized "mass tracking jumps", have CreW work and are in the middle of aircraft traffic areas. Now with the added range of wingsuits they decided to keep everyone separated. Most of the other dropzones don't have an issue over this. But most of the Pilots at other dropzones are very helpful with special jump run needs whether its a short run for wingsuit students or a very long run with a 90 degree turn for some far and fast flocking. San Diego is great in this regard, and so is Perris traffic permitting. Others don't care, just get out on the green and don't hit anything. The flight ops issue really is a local one. Based on traffic and circumstances. It should be crafted by the pilots, DZOs and the local flockers based on what works for them. Not from some wizard from the structure. I've heard a few complaints about that one.
>Though he gives the course for FREE it's better he has >taught from a structured program and has a rating.
>Whether you ever get a wingsuit rating on the type of >wingsuit you jump is your choice.
>All I am saying is it better for the wingsuit community >to have a structure program for teaching safety in the >particular suit they are going to jump (such as a BM, >MTR2 or S-Fly rating), the correct flight patterns and a >documented log of the the training recieved, and >from whom, because eventually it will be required.
>All I am saying is, lets avoid possible accidents or >fatalities, by teaching a structured program for the >safety of flying wingsuits, and that may mean getting >a MT2 or a BMI rating of some sort.
>But lets make the rules and guideline before >someone else does that has never flown a wingsuit.
The world keeps making a reference to the structured program that without it we are lost. That without a BMI you are only getting half of the valuable training. That you are taking a great risk with shoddy instruction. I'm gonna debunk that theory.
We were doing all of that traffic separation stuff before the structure. We were flying wingsuits solo and in big flocks safely before the structure. Conducting first flight courses safely before the structure. Doing many more WS jumps before some of those that are now in the structure became part of the structure that was yet to be. Not at just one dropzone but several in the region. The guys I jump with have had, or have, several wingsuits of various makes. Not just one or in the case of one BMI, none. How current is the individual that has to borrow gear to fly? Borrow two to just to teach? If you come to us you get a choice of brands and some cases colors ( tiny sizes the exception). You will be as safe as with any BMI .
Chances are if you know a person who has a few wingsuit ( any brand) jumps at a DZ near you. That person would be a good resource for wingsuit guidance. There is an instructor checklist on the BM homepage to assist. The other brands of suits have very nice flight manuals also. Nobody, BMI or not, is gonna swoop down and save you life if you are in trouble. Wingsuit flight is a world of self reliance and self responsibility.
I'm assuming that this hypothetical mentor person isn't reckless and crazy as I assume most of the BMIs are also not, even though real life data says there are exceptions in every bunch. And that the BMCIs have admitted once someone gets a rating and moves on its very hard for them to control what that individual does or says, which could reflect bad on BMIs as group. And those persons out side of the structure have nobody to answer to either. But if you are that bad no body will flock with you period.
>I'll be at the DZ on Friday about noon and all day >Sunday, I'll have my wingsuit too if you'd like to do >some flocking jumps?
Not staying for the X-fest?
Really the only place that is strict enough to require special wingsuit flight area that I know of is Perris.Oh, and Rantoul but that was after I asked. Perris regularly has organized "mass tracking jumps", have CreW work and are in the middle of aircraft traffic areas. Now with the added range of wingsuits they decided to keep everyone separated. Most of the other dropzones don't have an issue over this. But most of the Pilots at other dropzones are very helpful with special jump run needs whether its a short run for wingsuit students or a very long run with a 90 degree turn for some far and fast flocking. San Diego is great in this regard, and so is Perris traffic permitting. Others don't care, just get out on the green and don't hit anything. The flight ops issue really is a local one. Based on traffic and circumstances. It should be crafted by the pilots, DZOs and the local flockers based on what works for them. Not from some wizard from the structure. I've heard a few complaints about that one.
>Though he gives the course for FREE it's better he has >taught from a structured program and has a rating.
>Whether you ever get a wingsuit rating on the type of >wingsuit you jump is your choice.
>All I am saying is it better for the wingsuit community >to have a structure program for teaching safety in the >particular suit they are going to jump (such as a BM, >MTR2 or S-Fly rating), the correct flight patterns and a >documented log of the the training recieved, and >from whom, because eventually it will be required.
>All I am saying is, lets avoid possible accidents or >fatalities, by teaching a structured program for the >safety of flying wingsuits, and that may mean getting >a MT2 or a BMI rating of some sort.
>But lets make the rules and guideline before >someone else does that has never flown a wingsuit.
The world keeps making a reference to the structured program that without it we are lost. That without a BMI you are only getting half of the valuable training. That you are taking a great risk with shoddy instruction. I'm gonna debunk that theory.
We were doing all of that traffic separation stuff before the structure. We were flying wingsuits solo and in big flocks safely before the structure. Conducting first flight courses safely before the structure. Doing many more WS jumps before some of those that are now in the structure became part of the structure that was yet to be. Not at just one dropzone but several in the region. The guys I jump with have had, or have, several wingsuits of various makes. Not just one or in the case of one BMI, none. How current is the individual that has to borrow gear to fly? Borrow two to just to teach? If you come to us you get a choice of brands and some cases colors ( tiny sizes the exception). You will be as safe as with any BMI .
Chances are if you know a person who has a few wingsuit ( any brand) jumps at a DZ near you. That person would be a good resource for wingsuit guidance. There is an instructor checklist on the BM homepage to assist. The other brands of suits have very nice flight manuals also. Nobody, BMI or not, is gonna swoop down and save you life if you are in trouble. Wingsuit flight is a world of self reliance and self responsibility.
I'm assuming that this hypothetical mentor person isn't reckless and crazy as I assume most of the BMIs are also not, even though real life data says there are exceptions in every bunch. And that the BMCIs have admitted once someone gets a rating and moves on its very hard for them to control what that individual does or says, which could reflect bad on BMIs as group. And those persons out side of the structure have nobody to answer to either. But if you are that bad no body will flock with you period.
>I'll be at the DZ on Friday about noon and all day >Sunday, I'll have my wingsuit too if you'd like to do >some flocking jumps?
Not staying for the X-fest?
kallend 1,619
Quotethere is no way a person with less then 100 jumps could have aquired the right amount of experience for jumping a wingsuit. his body will not know what to do in a dangerous situation.. the musclememory has to be trained a lot to be able to react correctly without thinking about what to do first.
There's no possible way someone under the age of 10 could write a symphony. Both Mozart and Mendelsohn did, however.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteThere's no possible way someone under the age of 10 could write a symphony. Both Mozart and Mendelsohn did, however.
Sure, but if the symphony sucked (which they didn't) they didn't die.
Even very experienced people have died in a wingsuit...look at Geoffry Peggs, he was a fairly squared away jumper and he didn't make it.
IMO, wingsuits will be there, get the experience first. Just like swooping in my mind.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
QuoteReally the only place that is strict enough to require special wingsuit flight area that I know of is Perris.Oh, and Rantoul but that was after I asked.
Dont you think this will be growing as more people get into wingsuit flying?
I'd say so...
QuoteThe world keeps making a reference to the structured program that without it we are lost. That without a BMI you are only getting half of the valuable training. That you are taking a great risk with shoddy instruction. I'm gonna debunk that theory.
Wrong.
Nobody said lost, just with a program of teaching set up for flying suit safely and correctly, and before they set up or require one for us.
QuoteWe were doing all of that traffic separation stuff before the structure. We were flying wingsuits solo and in big flocks safely before the structure. Conducting first flight courses safely before the structure. Doing many more WS jumps before some of those that are now in the structure became part of the structure that was yet to be.
We also had AFF students graduating from AFF in just 7 jumps and had no idea of what a canopy does besides how to open it and land it too right?
They have changed that for what reason? Money? NO, for safety.
They restructured the program because the sport is growing and needs to have more training to prevent possible accidents.
QuoteNobody, BMI or not, is gonna swoop down and save you life if you are in trouble.
No shit.
I have seen AFF Instructors thats cant fly to save their own ass, but they are good at ground training.
Wingsuit are meant to be jump by experienced jumpers that already know how to skydive and are current, and a structured program will show we are responsible for being safe in a wingsuit and have been correctly evaluated on thier currency and their ability befor jumping a wingsuit. They will be instructed on emergency procedures in the particular suit and flight patterns for the particular DZ by a qualified person.
QuoteI'm assuming that this hypothetical mentor person isn't reckless and crazy as I assume most of the BMIs are also not, even though real life data says there are exceptions in every bunch.
Your assuming...
Your also assuming DZ's will never require some type of documentation that you have been trained by qualified Instructor too.
Like I said, as the sport grows and the person with 50-100 jumps shows up at the DZ with a wingsuit he's bought off the internet and attempts to jump it, things will change.
QuoteBMCIs have admitted once someone gets a rating and moves on its very hard for them to control what that individual does or says, which could reflect bad on BMIs as group. And those persons out side of the structure have nobody to answer to either.
I can see you have some sort of problem with the BMI's , BMI rating and it's costs for the BMCI to train new BMI's, since skydiving is mainly what they do for a living and dont do it for free.
Should USPA require documentation of wingsuit pilots having training from some sort of Instructor they have implemented into the BSR's in the future, I hope yours is signed off for free.
I'm sure you are a great mentor and can give good instruction on wingsuit flying, so lets just say we all have our opinions of whats to come. Stay safe my friend and I hope we get to fly sometime soon.
QuoteNot staying for the X-fest?
Can't
Blue Ones.
Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com
mccordia 73
Need to learn and read before I reply to a totaly different subject :)
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
I can see you have some sort of problem with the BMI's , BMI rating and it's costs for the BMCI to train new BMI's, since skydiving is mainly what they do for a living and dont do it for free.
Should USPA require documentation of wingsuit pilots having training from some sort of Instructor they have implemented into the BSR's in the future, I hope yours is signed off for free.
Blue Ones.
Ed
Should USPA require documentation of wingsuit pilots having training from some sort of Instructor they have implemented into the BSR's in the future, I hope yours is signed off for free.
Blue Ones.
Ed
The AFF system was changed because it wasn't working as you say for for new jumpers. Some very progressive DZs already had a superior system of their own in place (example chicago ). Many other DZs ( too many to list here) have ongoing post AFF tutoring for free ( this is extremely good for business).The old system was past needing changing.
Wingsuits don't present that dire need to change the system of training. You can say your being proactive but others will disagree. I'm a moderate when it comes to the value of a BMI on your FFC. But there are some people out that think that BMIs are out just to get a buck, get some free gear from sponsors and get attention in other ways. To some people the rating is laughable, even by other rated BMIs. Its not a limited local thing do a search of the BMI related gripes on this forum. See where they are coming from.
Other than getting ripped off on my first jump training by someone who shouldn't have been doing it. I don't have any trouble with BMIs. I have flown with many BMIs, we invite the local BMIs when we organize a "wingsuit day". I myself considered getting the rating long and hard. But it would be hard to recoup the benefits as I'm not employed on the DZ and so many locals just do it them selves or find a mentor, there are plenty. I don't need a gear sponsor, I don't have a skydiving resume to pad. What I would like is more people to flock with. New minds with more creativity, more fun, more sharing of unbelievable video. And we are willing to mentor to achieve this.
In fact if you moved here tomorrow and set up shop as a BMI I would promise to refer all customers to you. My friends and myself would never have to conduct a non-rated first flight course again. We could instead concentrate on more technical flying. Chances are if you make your living in skydiving that you would go after some of that high volume TM and AFF business and push the low volume WS FFC back on us.
None of our WS "graduates" have to worry about signatures in their logbook ( although we've done it for foreign visitors who's governing body required it) Instead of a signature we send them on their way with video. First on nice safe flights with clean deployments and then onto bigger funner ways with slot flying and grip taking for those that dare. There ain't nothing like flying base on a 6-wingsuit-way sunset load with two inverted flyers and video from three angles on your first day out. Well I wouldn't know myself as my first jump out was spent solo wondering if the BMI I paid was gonna come and crash into me after hosing the exit really ugly like, now I wish I had video of that one.
We don't get a discouraging eye when we go to other dropzones. We get the welcome treatment. Of course we don't display unsavory behavior, no body has to warn us for any unsafe hijynx, real or imagined. They don't mind that we on occasion mentor. People ( we find) are really drawn to the newness of wingsuits. Pilots, work with us closely and appreciate the different aspect of the sport. Even guest pilots with visiting specialty aircraft get a boost out of it. I've never ever gotten any negative feedback or heard talk of "banning" due to wingsuits, quite the opposite. Which makes me ask "what are we doing differently"?
Matter instructor rating? News to me! In fact last I heard the guy that was going to draft it bailed on Matter and really wants nothing to do with the company.
Funny I keep running into people that show me their new M2 that they just ordered off the website, read the manual and whoopi off they went. I bet you could get an S-fly the same way as long as you didn't live in a country that had rules by the governing body above and beyond the manufactures recommendation that pertain to WS flight.
Of course these matter instructors could be hiding with that 50 jump wonder that regularly jumps a velocity, from the safety and training forum, that I have still to meet up with.
And finally, do you have to be rated to get some cake?
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