Poached photos....

[lewmonst 0]

Just curious... If you posted your photos for sale on a website, which has disabled the right-click option and states "These photos are copyrighted by their respective owners. All rights reserved. Unauthorized use prohibited." when right-clicked, then you found your photo poached (likely a screengrab) and posted on someone else's website without permission or even photo credit, what would you do?

Moderator responses welcome.

http://www.exitshot.com

[freefalle 0]

well, I'm not a lawyer but I would believe the following questions would have to be answered and although Im sure most of your answers would be yes I'll ask them any way

1. can you prove the photo is yours

2. can you prove that the photo was for sale and not freely available to the public

3. can you prove who stole the photo

4. can you prove that the person who is responsible for the web site it appears on: a) knew the photo was stolen and/or B) was the person who stole the photo

5. Can you prove that the person who stole the photo deprived you of its use and the ability to make income from the photo

I don't know if photo's placed on a web site are considered physical or intellectual property. If its legally considered physical property and you can prove that the item was stolen than its a criminal matter I don't know if theft of intellectual property is a criminal matter

I would "THINK" that the long and short of it is this, you are probably never going to "prove" who physically stole the photo therefore holding a single person accountable for the theft is going to be difficult at best.

That being said, I believe at the minimum if I could prove that a photo I took and had for sale was being used without my consent or that I had not been compensated, I believe that I would send a certified letter to the business listed on the web site that the photo appeared illegally, demanding compensation or immediate removal of the photo from their site. I may also try to a letter to the web developer and the company who host the web page as well just for the sake of completion. After the owner of the web site where the photo appears is served with proof that they are in possession of stolen property, if they refuse to remove it from their site of compensate me the asking price for the photo, I would forward everything to my lawyer and litigate the matter. Our work is our work, and we deserve to be paid for it. People think that its okay to steel your work, thats crap. It rakes my nerves when someone says "hey can you email me that photo or photos from that skydive" without even offering to pay for it or your jump or something. It really pisses me of to hear a company would steel your work... let me know what you decide to do, Im curious to see how this one plays out.

People think because you are their "friend" you will give them your work for free. Most of them are "friends" with their packer too, tell them to go ask the packer for free pack jobs because ya know after all they are "friends" see how that shit works out.....

Chuck B

[PharmerPhil 0]

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I don't know if theft of intellectual property is a criminal matter

It certainly is.

[rwieder 0]

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I don't know if theft of intellectual property is a criminal matter

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It certainly is.

If it is indeed if it is copywrited, and/or ownership established by affixing your name, or logo on the pic itself.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[velocityphoto 0]

Amen to that one brother!

Our work is our work, and we deserve to be paid for it. People think that its okay to steel your work, thats crap. It rakes my nerves when someone says "hey can you email me that photo or photos from that skydive" without even offering to pay for it or your jump or something. It really pisses me of to hear a company would steel your work... let me know what you decide to do, Im curious to see how this one plays out.

People think because you are their "friend" you will give them your work for free. Most of them are "friends" with their packer too, tell them to go ask the packer for free pack jobs because ya know after all they are "friends" see how that shit works out.....

Chuck B

A friend will bail you out of jail , a REAL friend will be sitting next to you in the cell slapping your hand saying "DUDE THAT WAS AWSUM " ................

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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People think because you are their "friend" you will give them your work for free. Most of them are "friends" with their packer too, tell them to go ask the packer for free pack jobs because ya know after all they are "friends" see how that shit works out.....

Chuck B

I think your answer to the OP pretty much sums it up. There's really not much that one can do initially besides politely requesting that the content be taken down. Taking further action really wouldn't be worth it unless one can prove a significant amout ( $$ ) in damages has occured to make legal action worthwhile.

As far as friends asking for images for free, I'm very satisfied with the solution that I've come up with. I ask them to sign a model release as payment. The model release allows me to sell their photo as stock and the royalties, over time will add up. It's not a way to make a living, but at least I get some money to defray the costs of my equipment. I'm happy, and my "models" are happy.

[DSE 3]

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I think your answer to the OP pretty much sums it up. There's really not much that one can do initially besides politely requesting that the content be taken down. Taking further action really wouldn't be worth it unless one can prove a significant amout ( $$ ) in damages has occured to make legal action worthwhile.

As far as friends asking for images for free, I'm very satisfied with the solution that I've come up with. I ask them to sign a model release as payment. The model release allows me to sell their photo as stock and the royalties, over time will add up. It's not a way to make a living, but at least I get some money to defray the costs of my equipment. I'm happy, and my "models" are happy.

There is actually a fair amount you can do.
Report the image violation(s) to their webhost, send them a certified letter.
Beyond that, you can threaten legal action, and yeah...it would be a bitch to deal with. Easy to prove, but expensive to defend. I can't imagine a typical skydiver going to that point on either side of the issue.
However...if the photos are being used for commercial work in any manner...that's another story.
Curiously enough, I'm sitting in the airport and only a few moments ago, shot some candid video of an Asian woman having a very loud temper tantrum on her cell phone. I don't speak Chinese, but "Fuck you" "Asshole" "Screw off" "Mother fucker" were all discernable in the conversation. She was very animated. So...I started recording her on my phone. She grew a bit angry with me, telling me I don't have the right. Well...actually, I do. I have the right to shoot/record her very public conversation in a very public place and post it to the public site "YouTube" etc. What I can't do is use it for commercial purposes, and SHE can't use it on her own website without MY permission.
This stuff is fairly easy in concept, but very challenging in practice.
The subject comes up a lot.
I used to really get my panties in a wad over someone illegally using my work. For the most part, I accomplish a lot more with the "hey...can we talk for a minute? approach."

That said: here is a bit of copyright summary:
-you don't need to post a copyright notice nor watermark for it to be marked as "may not be used"
-the copyright is affixed the moment you create the work.
-NO ONE can take your copyright away from you, and signing it away requires at least two statements of understanding that you are completely giving up copyright, unless it's specifically a work for hire. We use Work For Hire on our DZ for all photographers. It's a good practice from a DZ perspective...

Finally, your work is worth exactly what you say it's worth. If no one is buying, you might want to adjust your perception of the value of your work whether it's in the air or on the ground.


[edit] Karen, just re-read your original post (sorry, it's late here in Oz).
A-Send a billing to the poaching party valued at XXX per day the image appears. If you intend on pursuing legal action later on, then make it a reasonable value based on stock photography value charts plus a little extra for the hassle.
If you don't intend to pursue legal action and you'd merely like to be compensated or have the image removed, then make the number astronomical.
If your primary goal is compensation, then I'd approach it with a "I normally make XXX for a photo; this one is special and I didn't want it devalued by it appearing all over the web. You've devalued my photograph by illegally taking it from my hosting website where it's specifically stated that the copyright belongs to me. How would you like to resolve this?
Give em' a chance to fix it, if any relationship value is to be had. Going in guns blazing is likely to leave them no quarter but to merely fight and/or remove the image. But...if the image isn't protected on their site...it's quite possible they've distributed stolen goods. Again..."how would you like to address this problem?"

Either way...it's your work. You own it. You don't need to prove anything unless it does find itself in a court of law, and this seems like an easy "prove" anyway.
Do with it what your gut tells you is best.
Is it about protecting the value of the shot?
Is it about protecting your rights?
Is it about being remunerated for the shot?
Is it personal and you don't want the poacher to have it on general principle?
What is the end goal in the "You wrongfully used my work" conversation?

[The111 0]

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So...I started recording her on my phone. She grew a bit angry with me, telling me I don't have the right. Well...actually, I do. I have the right to shoot/record her very public conversation in a very public place and post it to the public site "YouTube" etc.

The important question here... where's the video?

Knowing your personality and picturing you having this argument with her is very entertaining to me...

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Icon134 0]

I actually noticed one of my 4-way shots that I posted on facebook for the team that I jump with had been used as someones profile picture a few days ago.

Now I posted the picture to facebook and I don't have a problem with him using it as his profile picture...

my issue was that I posted the picture with a signature showing my website, and a "Scott Shell Copyright 2009)... and he had cropped the photo cutting off all of the website and part of the signature... and it looks/looked tacky...

If he had asked I probably would have given him a photo that was cropped and had my signature in the corner... because utlimately... I want that seen on the off chance that someone might say "Hey that's a nice picture maybe I'll go check out his website."

I know I've done it before...

Scott

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[Bill_K 0]

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... seen on the off chance that someone might say "Hey that's a nice picture maybe I'll go check out his website."

I know I've done it before...

Scott

Scott,

I've done it too, in fact I've gone to your website based on looking at that sig on pictures here on dizzy.
BK

[Icon134 0]

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... seen on the off chance that someone might say "Hey that's a nice picture maybe I'll go check out his website."

I know I've done it before...

Scott

Scott,

I've done it too, in fact I've gone to your website based on looking at that sig on pictures here on dizzy.
BK

I do it for pilotdave all the time...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[bdazel 0]

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If it is indeed if it is copywrited, and/or ownership established by affixing your name, or logo on the pic itself.

Copyright is fixed the moment you create the work. Registration with the copyright office is not required, unless you want to litigate the copyright. Fixing your name or logo also is not required, although it is a good idea. If you do get into a litigation situation, notice of the infringed copyright can result in willful infringement, meaning triple damages.

[pilotdave 0]

So that's where my monthly website hit comes from!

Thanks!

As far as stolen photos goes, I don't mind so much as long as the watermark is there. I don't bother with right-click protection because it doesn't really do anything (the images are in your cache) and makes it annoying for me when i want to save a watermarked pic for posting here or somewhere else.

My pics are all over facebook and myspace and classified ads for gear and who knows where else. I've actually sold over 500 pictures too. It can be annoying that anybody would just steal a pic when i sell small digital downloads for 25 cents, but the watermark that goes on the free copy is probably more valuable anyway.

Haven't found any pics being used really inappropriately (commercially or whatever).

If you don't want a pic stolen, the only way to do it is to not post it online.

Dave

[Laszloimage 0]

Were your pictures used on a US web site?
It happened once with me. It was a Spanish DZ using 10-12 of my shots to promote from AFF to tandem and all kind of skydivind disciplanes. (typical DZ web site)
When I called them up and told them the reason why I calling all of the sudden they forgot to speak english. I couldn't do too much with them since they were in Spain. Ever since I put a water mark into the midle of my photos. I make sure it covers part of the main subject of the image but try nut to totally ruin it.
see the attached example

[ChangoLanzao 0]

HERE is a very nice article just posted by The Photo Attorney

There is also a link in there to an article about "fair use".

[avenfoto 0]

it depends on the scale of the company who ripped you off, if you can afford to persue it, unfortunatly..

you want to see some of my stolen work? buy the new futurama (FOX)
dvd, entitled "wild green yonder"

go to the extras section, "matt and david go to space"

the entire segment is a slideshow, my images, with voiceover.

guess what. i cant afford a lawyer.

guess whatelse.

i got over it.

youll get nowhere in life or business brooding over past slights or holding grudges.

try to stay positive, and look to the future.

ive had over 60,000 worth of contracts snaked from me, images outright stolen, you name it.

hollywood is slime. thats just the way it is.

[DSE 3]

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you want to see some of my stolen work? buy the new futurama (FOX)
dvd, entitled "wild green yonder"

go to the extras section, "matt and david go to space"

the entire segment is a slideshow, my images, with voiceover.

guess what. i cant afford a lawyer.

guess whatelse.

i got over it.

youll get nowhere in life or business brooding over past slights or holding grudges.

try to stay positive, and look to the future.

ive had over 60,000 worth of contracts snaked from me, images outright stolen, you name it.

hollywood is slime. thats just the way it is.

if ths is really so, then you truly don't have a clue about how the industry works, or else somewhere along the line, you gave up rights.
It's that simple.
I didn't need a lawyer to go after Buena Vista, I did it pro se. It wasn't easy, but it wasn't nearly as hard as going after a label that illegally sampled my music.

If you don't stand up to defend yourself, how on earth can you expect others to do the same?

Sorry, I'm not buying that it's as simple as you describe, and anyone who has done any work for DVD release knows exactly what I'm saying. There is more to your story. There *has* to be.
Hollywood isn't slime, just cheap and ambitious. Like most of us.

[avenfoto 0]

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I did it pro se.

what does that mean

and i never said it was simple...

[DSE 3]

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I did it pro se.

what does that mean

and i never said it was simple...

"pro se" means I said it with my own voice, or represented myself. It's not hard at all, not in blatant copyright cases. It costs 6.00 to send a certified letter to make a claim. If they received the letter and released anyway, and you can demonstrate it is your work free of encumbrances and releases.... they're in seriously deep shit. It's that simple. Doesn't matter if you photographed the moon from your porch that looks like a bazillion other moon shots...if you can prove you shot it, and prove they used it... they're in seriously deep shit. It doesn't matter how small the damage is to you.
Fox recently fired a well-known reporter just for downloading an illegal movie, and Fox is helping the copyright holder in pursuing legal actions against the reporter.
It's really that simple.
When it becomes convoluted is if there are releases, handoffs, lack of WFH, dissolved partnerships, questionable ownership, etc.

Truly...this is an easy one.
If it's as simple as you describe (Fox used your copyrighted works without release from you and you can prove you created/shot/authored the work) then _I'll_ act as your representative for 50% of what the award/settlement is. It's that easy.

[pattersd 0]

You're more expensive than a lawyer!

[DSE 3]

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You're more expensive than a lawyer!

You're probably right. Having done time representing myself, having paid several lawyers a buttload of $$, and 30 years in the entertainment biz...one kinda gets to know the ropes.
But...i'm not an attorney. I just play one in my frustrated moments.

[The111 0]

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and i never said it was simple...

I'd be interested in more details. How did Fox get ahold of your photos and why did they use them?

For that matter, what's a photo slideshow doing in a comedy cartoon? I haven't seen a Futurama show in a long time, granted, maybe it's changed? Is this some sort of Futurama movie or something?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[PhreeZone 15]

The creators of the show did a ZeroG ride and had the experience filmed/photos shot. I'm interested to see how that contract was set up vs a typical DZ agreement for tandem videos.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Skwrl 56]

Quite frankly, Spot does a better job at it than a lot of lawyers I know...

But if it really is as simple as you say it is, yes, you'd likely get a settlement pretty quick. I'd bet a donut, though, that somwehere along the line the copyright was assigned or licensed...

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[DSE 3]

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Quite frankly, Spot does a better job at it than a lot of lawyers I know...

But if it really is as simple as you say it is, yes, you'd likely get a settlement pretty quick. I'd bet a donut, though, that somwehere along the line the copyright was assigned or licensed...

Coming from a big city attorney like you, that's a whopping compliment! Thanks

I suspect there is a lot more to the story too; it would be extremely unlikely that Fox nor any of their production feeds would use non-released/licensed content either with or without malice.