bmcd308 0 #26 October 2, 2003 I've asked about this on photo.net, and I got a lot of good responses. Basically, the Rebel and the Elan 7 series (including the 10D) have very similar AF systems. They do much better on subjects that are kind of far away (like 25 feet) than they do up close. The pro bodies do a better job up close, but the sad fact is that it is just as hard for the camera to stay focused on a guy doing 70 right by you as it is for you to focus manually on him. The software was written with the idea that the camera would be further from the action. I'm just going to start trying to put myself in a place where the camera is better able to do its part (i.e. further away) and I'll let you know if I get better results. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #27 October 2, 2003 QuoteIf your only problem is the plastic body, don't get too hung up. Canon makes a pretty tough plastic body. I stopped in to look at a 300D today while on my lunchbreak. It seems like a pretty solid camera to me. The lens flange looks good and solid and the polycarbonate body would be very tough....imo. It's a larger camera than I expected. The 18-55 lens is larger than I thought it would be but overall it isn't terribly heavy. I think it would be a very good freefall camera. I find the image in the viewfinder seems small compared to a film slr which might bother my 51 year old eyes when using it on the ground but a viewfinder is way better than trying to take pictures in bright daylight using the lcd screen.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #28 October 3, 2003 QuoteI find the image in the viewfinder seems small compared to a film slr Murray, the reason the image is smaller, is because it is trying to show you just the image you will get due to the sensor being smaller then a 35mm film camera. Have you heard us talking about the camera having a 1.6x zoom factor? Well, actually it's not a zoom factor, it's a cropping factor. The smaller sensor sees a smaller part of what the lens is zooming in on, therefore to show you the same thing in the viewfinder, they "crop" your view. The following is an excerpt from one of the reviews on the Rebel. Field Of View crop One thing it is important to understand is Field of View crop. Because the EOS 300D's sensor is smaller than a 35 mm negative the field of view provided by a lens is effectively cropped (in the case of the EOS 300D the crop factor is 1.6x). This used to be referred to as 'focal length multiplier' although this term is actually inaccurate as it is not a multiplication but a crop, we prefer to refer to it as Field Of View crop (FOV crop). Thus the 18 - 55 mm F3.5 - F5.6 lens provides a field of view equivalent to a 28.8 - 88 mm lens on a 35 mm film camera. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #29 October 3, 2003 Thanks Wags. That makes sense. I understand the reason for the conversion factor,,,just didn't expect the view to be so small. This was the first time I've looked through a digital SLR viewfinder. I think that I'll sit on the sidelines until the conversion factor is 1....and the price is $999 US. I don't think I'll have to wait too much longer...maybe 2 years at the outside.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #30 October 3, 2003 Here's my guess, in 2 years you will be able to get a digital SLR camera that's twice as fast as the 10D, double the resolution, and half the price of the Rebel. We are at a time where a lot of money is being dumped into this technology, and things are happening fast. Here's a quote from a review that might suprise some of you. Four years ago a 6 Megapixel DSLR cost $30,000. A little less than eighteen months ago the price had dropped to under $3,000, and today — with the Rebel — it's now well under $1,000. Moore's Law in action. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #31 October 3, 2003 Guess Moore's Law has overridden FutureCam's prediction on this subject. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #32 October 3, 2003 Quote Guess Moore's Law has overridden FutureCam's prediction on this subject. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=403396;search_string=moore;#403396 The prices of dslr's will continue to decrease while the features will increase. I look forward to next year. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #33 October 3, 2003 QuoteThanks Wags. That makes sense. I understand the reason for the conversion factor,,,just didn't expect the view to be so small. This was the first time I've looked through a digital SLR viewfinder. I think that I'll sit on the sidelines until the conversion factor is 1....and the price is $999 US. I don't think I'll have to wait too much longer...maybe 2 years at the outside. Murrays, I was thinking like that too, untill the Rebel hit the $ 1000 mark. I remember when I bought the Digital Ixus three years ago, a 2.1 Megapixel camera that cost me £400 (I lived in the UK back then) Yes, I paid way too much for it, but if I look back at the amount of fun I had with it, and at the pictures that I would have never taken with a normal 35mm camera.. those were 400 pounds well spent. For me at least, I think it is going to be the same way with the digital Rebel. With technology you always pay too much, even if it seems cheap, because the moment you walk out the store, it's old... Just my $0.02 Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #34 October 3, 2003 ^2 The capabilities and features of the Rebel are NOT the same as the 10D. The price -may- be lower, but so is the throughput and feature set.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #35 October 3, 2003 QuoteThe capabilities and features of the Rebel are NOT the same as the 10D. Of course, not, but the features and capabilityies of the 10D were not the same as the 1D. That doesn't mean Moore's law is not in effect. For the most part, we jump consumer grade video cameras and analog SLR's. Moore's law is going to make the same true for DSLR's. According to Canon, the EOS RebelD IS consumer grade, but I'm going to wait just a bit longer for something MORE consumer. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #36 October 8, 2003 I just ordered a 300D. I toyed with the idea of buying a 10D for a time but couldn´t really afford one. Then I got to play with one, damn, I gotta have one.... Still, couldn´t justify one because the reason I´m not jumping my D30 is it´s weight, and the D10 weighs even a little bit more. So I opted for the 300D, with the 18-55 mm lens. Pro´s: - weight - price - lightweight lens - wide angle lens - no adaptor needed for biteswitch Cons: - lcd on back of camera (where my helmet is) - accompanying lens has no focus distance ring - no partial metering mode - less speed What I´d like from people already jumping this camera, is feedback on the metering mode part, and if my other cons are bothering you. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #37 October 10, 2003 Saskia, As far as the partial metering mode goes, the 300D does have it. Unless I am not getting what you are talking about. Here is a link to the manual for the camera, check out page 84. Forgive me, as I am a bit new to photography, but from what I see the partial metering will hold for only a few seconds. Are you looking for a way to lock it for the full skydive? Or are you using it for something else other then skydiving? Page 122 has a nice chart that shows what can be used in the different modes. You mention the LCD on back of camera, as one of your cons, do you have a quick release? I find the Stroboframe to work great for quickly removing and replacing the camera if you want to see the screen. A friend of mine has a setup like that, and just set my camera where his still goes, and almost scratched my screen with a screw on his helmet. If yours is like that, be careful, and cover that screw!!! The no focus distance ring problem, well I only have two jumps with my camera to date (hopefully that changes this weekend, as the weather looks bad) I left the camera on auto focus for these first jumps. I know that's almost a sin, but it worked ok. I know I would have gotten more shots off in manual mode, but I don't have that dialed in yet. I plan to just judge the setting on the ground, and make some sort of mark where the best setting is, and then compensate either way for different types of dives. As far as less speed goes, that is at this point my biggest hang up, but I think I will be ok with it. I just have to keep from filling that first buffer, so I will always be ready for one good shot. I have attached one such shot. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #38 October 16, 2003 Hi, Well, partial metering that requires me to press a button each time isn't very useful in general and certainly not in freefall I may get a quick release but that doesn't solve my problem: if I want to see the lcd (for info on amount of pictures, battery life etc) I have to disconnect the camera from my helmet, not something I want to do in the plane/right after landing. And, autofocus isn't very useful in the air.... I don't really need a focus ring, I can just autofocus on somthing at the approx. distance I want, then switch to manual. but again, an annoyance.... But I held both the 300D and the 10D in my hands.... Boy the 300D is light So I hope all this is worth it! ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #39 October 16, 2003 >>I can just autofocus on somthing at the approx. distance I want, then switch to manual.<< Focus your camera on an object the same distance away from you as the hyperfocal distance of the lens / aperture you plan to use, then switch to manual and tape the focus ring in place. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #40 October 16, 2003 Quote>>I can just autofocus on somthing at the approx. distance I want, then switch to manual.<< Focus your camera on an object the same distance away from you as the hyperfocal distance of the lens / aperture you plan to use, then switch to manual and tape the focus ring in place. And here I thought I was so clever when I adopted this technique this weekend... Is it just me, or does this new camera (300D) have a real sensitive focal point when you use the 18-55 lens that comes in the kit? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #41 October 16, 2003 >>Is it just me, or does this new camera (300D) have a real sensitive focal point when you use the 18-55 lens that comes in the kit? << Whether an object is "in focus" depends on a number of things. Keeping circle of confusion size constant, it depends on aperture and focal length. So if you go to 18mm and use a small aperture (big number = small hole) it should not be very sensitive at all to where the focus ring is. At long focal lengths and large apertures (small number = big hole) it will be more sensitive. Since you have a digital camera, you can try this very inexpensively by setting the focus just on the near side of infinity. Take a pretty long exposure at a small aperture of an object 10 feet or so away with the lens at 18mm. Chances are, even though you focused almost to infinity, the object will be in focus. Now, go to 55mm and the fastest shutter speed you can dial in so that the aperture is wide open. Chances are, your object will be out of focus. Brent EDITED for spelling ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #42 October 16, 2003 Of course. f16 will get you a much deeper focal length than f3.5. However, with shooting at ISO 200 in the afternoon at Perris, I was surprised that at 200 shutter speed (Program 2) the default was f5.6. Thus, a shorter depth of field. And why the 200 shutter speed? Was using fill flash because there was back light the way the landing pattern was. I could not focus at infinity and keep swoopers in focus at all. It had to be dialed in a bit, but then one swooper coming directly at me had his knees in focus buy not his face! Photo was taken at f14, shutter speed 125. ltdiver btw, the photo file transfer doesn't do it justice here... Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #43 October 16, 2003 Swoopers are a tough subject. Lots of lines on the canopy to confuse AF, since the distance from the subject (typically the swooper's eyes) to various things the camera might pick out as contrasty enough to be the subject (the lines of the canopy, the edge of the canopy against the sky, the horizon, and sadly, the edge of nearby blades of grass) is big enough to make a difference if you are shooting a wide aperture. It is tough to use MF on swoopers, because then you are stuck with only one picture per swoop, and it is pretty much impossible to tell in advance exactly what flight path your subject will follow, so you don't know what distance to prefocus. You pretty much have to commit to one focus point, since the most advanced AI software in the world is contained in that camera for no purpose other than to cause it to focus on things you had no idea were actually even in the frame. I use the inner left one when shooting in portrait orientation and keep it on the swooper's eyes. That way, I can get the canopy in the frame above the center and the swooper's body in the lower third of the frame. If your subject is backlit, you might find that you have better results using +1 or even +2 stops of exposure compensation rather than the fill flash and letting the sky get blown out - the teeninesy onboard flash is not going to do much for you even as a fill flash at any reasonable distance. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luza 0 #44 March 10, 2004 I hate this What camera should I buy? I have the money - should I then go for the 10d or will the 300d do the job? ....I'm just going to use it "for fun"...but(....it's always a but....) I just can't deside what camera to go for? Whats the ups and downs of those two? 10d is a bit heavy (or is it actually so heavy???) the 300d takes to few pics.....I guess.... So...if any1 can tell me what I should bye....I'd love it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #45 March 11, 2004 I have the American version of the 10d, the Rebel Digital. For skydiving and general photography it is a great camera, it is a lot lighter than the 10d, and cheaper. If your looking for something to use skydiving, and for general photography I would recomend it 100%. If your looking for something more proffesional, and have the Cash, go with the 10d. Good luck. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #46 March 12, 2004 Quote I have the American version of the 10d, the Rebel Digital. The digital rabel is the americam version of the 300D not the 10D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oiseau60 0 #47 July 29, 2004 to ltdiver (or anybody who has an answer) On your 300D, is there a reason you use program 2 instead of 1? thx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #48 July 30, 2004 Quoteto ltdiver (or anybody who has an answer) On your 300D, is there a reason you use program 2 instead of 1? thx I personally use Program 1. If memory serves, the 300D's Program 2 is equal to the 10D's Program 1 which is more subdued. 300D's Program 1 has a higher saturation (which I like). ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2pac 6 #49 August 6, 2004 Hello Guys, I´m about to get my DRebel, and am introduced with the burst problems of it, BUT, I heard that with some firmware modification/update it is possible to make it become almost a 10D in performance,does anyone perhaps know more about this and how it can be done? 2pacwww.slobodanpad.hr www.skydiveadria.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #50 August 6, 2004 QuoteHello Guys, I´m about to get my DRebel, and am introduced with the burst problems of it, BUT, I heard that with some firmware modification/update it is possible to make it become almost a 10D in performance,does anyone perhaps know more about this and how it can be done? 2pac Try doing a 'search' here on this forum. It's been discussed before. However, just realize that a change of this value will void your Rebel's warranty. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
