ltdiver 3 #1 September 25, 2003 Have a peek at this review and post your comments. For those of you who are versed in the photography subject, your insight is most valuable for those who are searching for 'that' perfect yet affordable find. Canon 10D vs Rebel Digital Review ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #2 September 25, 2003 I myself am torn. Don't really have the money for the 10D but the 300D is plastic I am really stuck on the choice. I am going to have to read some more from ppl who have one or know a bit more then I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #3 September 25, 2003 If your only problem is the plastic body, don't get too hung up. Canon makes a pretty tough plastic body. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #4 September 25, 2003 Those folks do great work. There are plenty of plastic-bodied Canons out there. I don't think that would make the difference for me. For tandem and AFF I think that rebel would be fine. I think it would be found wanting on shooting exits. If you have a big chunk plus divers coming out of the Van, it's nice to just blast during that process. Get 6 or seven shots with the plane in the frame before moving over the formation - and then not have to worry if you are taking pictures or if the camera is buffering the exit still. Balloons and Helicopter exits would probably benefit from the faster frame-rate of the 10D too. That said, for a grand you can be shooting high quality digital, including a lens that is OK for skydiving at 18mm, and will zoom enough for in-camera framing of ground shots. If you have the money and the neck, I'd get the 10D, still, but if you lack either, that Rebel looks pretty good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SniperCJ 0 #5 September 25, 2003 QuoteBalloons and Helicopter exits would probably benefit from the faster frame-rate of the 10D too.Quote Hell, coming fom a guy that's still shooting a Rebel 2000 'faster frame rate' is anything over 1 frame a second (if that...). Either of those would be blazing fast in comparison. JC Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #6 September 25, 2003 Yeah, and that's why I have suspected the digital Rebel was really going to take off. Lots of camera fliers have low-end film cameras, and the 300 is going to outperform them, plus it's digital. It allows unlimited potential to take bad pictures! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #7 September 25, 2003 Plus, is the half a frame per second difference between the rebelD and the 10D really worth 500$? For me? No. I'll prolly pick up a rebelD. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakydiver 0 #8 September 25, 2003 For me - the frame rate is very important. Plus the alloy body - mmmmmmmmmm... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chachi 0 #9 September 25, 2003 QuotePlus, is the half a frame per second difference between the rebelD and the 10D really worth 500$? For me? No. I'll prolly pick up a rebelD. _Am It does not write to disk near as fast from what I have read meaning that you may take a 4 frame burst and think you are taking more pictures but really you are still waiting for it to recycle. ~Chachi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #10 September 25, 2003 I would love for someone with multiple canon bodies to compare them in terms of their ability to maintain AF on fast-moving action. In particular, I have found the Ti to be lacking in ability to lock in on a swooper coming at me when I am on the ground. I select one of the focus points and keep it right on the swooper's eyes, but I often find that the body has decided that infinity is the best setting for a guy screaming by 10 feet away. My 7e body might be a little better at it, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part. Have you guys found that your 10D's or EOS 3's do a better job tracking the subject in AF mode? Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverds 0 #11 September 25, 2003 QuoteI often find that the body has decided that infinity is the best setting for a guy screaming by 10 feet away. I tend to avoid auto focus on these types of shots for that very reason. Edit for quote. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #12 September 25, 2003 Both my EOS 50E and my D30 have no trouble with continous focussing. A lot depends on the lens tho, if I use a 'holiday lens' (in my case, a Voigtländer 28-210 mm), forget it. But my Canon 35-105 is relatively fast so it keeps up fine. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #13 September 25, 2003 I use only the center focusing point and don't have any trouble, usually, with my 28-200mm Canon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites oldgit 0 #14 September 25, 2003 I’m old school using 35mm film You set up the kit then get in the right place then when you see the shot take it. ( skill required ) Now it seems all you have to do is throw lots of money at a digital camera that can take lots of shots per second and pick the one you think is best ( minimal skill ) All I read now is how may frames a second the camera can take not the skill that is needed to take a great picture Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stevebabin 0 #15 September 26, 2003 I think either camera would suffice for my skydiving needs, but the 300d is significantly lighter and is therefore a better choice for me. Weight is a big deal to me, having been "schwacked" a few times!! The plastic body doesn't bother me, I jumped a Rebelx/s for years and had great service out of it. FWIW, Steve Babin"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #16 September 26, 2003 Oldgit, your argument is valid. But even in film, the best had several gaffers loading and unloading cameras. Now we can do that for much less money. On only one camera. I am still badass, but I can get 60 shots per skydive, instead of 36. I am not as badass as somebody who jumped a huge format camera and only got one photo per shoot. It's good for the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #17 September 26, 2003 I agree with you, Deuce. While I would love to be able to fix the focus and wait wait wait for the perfect moment and then capture it forever with perfect skill, I must unfortunately rely on cranking out 10 frames per swoop and hoping that one is a keeper. I understand the other argument too, though. Even if I went off to war, there are very few situations that I would even consider using full auto on a rifle. Even up close, marksmanship beats equipment. But if I could not shoot worth a crap, I would use the hell out of full auto and hope for the best. But enough of that strained analogy. Maybe someday I'll set up a large format rig and get the perfect shot through skill and planning. But right now I have trouble doing that with landscapes, so action is out of the question. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #18 September 27, 2003 So I finally got to play with one of the Rebel Digitals, and I've found a largish set back. No home built remotes. The Rebel Digital does not use the N3 plug like the 10D, D60, D30, ect. It uses the same size pulg (1/8") as the EOS Rebel series, Elan 7, ect. The problem is it is not a mater of just making a conection to trigger the shutter. Couldn't make it trigger with my normal switch, or a brand new Conceptus switch. The remote unit from Canon appears to make some sort of specific code to release the shutter. I'm going to look into it, let ya'll know more as I do....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vidiot 0 #19 September 27, 2003 QuoteThe remote unit from Canon appears to make some sort of specific code to release the shutter. Hmmh, Canon lists RC-1/ RC-5/ RS-60E3 as Remote Controllers/Switches for this camera. At least the RS-60E3 seems to be a simple switch. It is listed to be compatible with the analogue Rebel and judging by the look and price (~ $25) I doubt it contains any electronic gimmicks. Drop Ed from Conceptus an email, I'm sure he'll get out of his way to find a solution. Let us know how it works out.. HTH, KlausMy Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Alo1 0 #20 September 29, 2003 I just got the digital rebel this weekend. My remote switch worked great..the same one I used for my film rebel G. Also only cost about about $2.50 in parts and 20 minutes labour. I can assure you there is NO electronic coding/wizardy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wags 0 #21 September 29, 2003 Quote No home built remotes. The Rebel Digital does not use the N3 plug like the 10D, D60, D30, ect. It uses the same size pulg (1/8") as the EOS Rebel series, Elan 7, ect. This is why I like my Digital Rebel, it works with the same bite switch I use with my Rebel 2000. As far as AndyMan referencing the half frame per second difference. The biggest difference for us, as has been discussed here before, is the buffer, 4 frames for the Rebel, and 9 for the 10D. Actually they each seem to have two buffers of equal size, you can read more about that in this awesome review at http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EDR/EDRA7.HTM Both cameras will take 4(Rebel) or 9(10D) shots very fast, then 4(Rebel) or 17-25(10D) shots kind of fast, then wait for the buffer to dump at least one picture to the card before being able to take another shot. The one thing that sucks, is that neither will write at the same time as they shoot, that would be a big plus, and I am sure their will be a model that will do it someday soon. By the numbers above, you can see that using the second buffer, the 10D will take a lot more shots in a minuet then the Rebel. Just shooting on the ground with my Rebel, I figure I can take 15 shots in 30 seconds. We do tandems here from 10K, so the freefall is about 30 sec. I don't know when I will get a chance to try it in the air, as I am usually the one in the video, instead of taking it. I will post my results when I get a chance. As far as the auto focus problem brought up by Brent, here is a quote from the above review I posted a link for. Like the EOS 10D before it, the Digital Rebel 300D offers what Canon terms "Predictive AF," which basically tracks the rate at which a subject is approaching or receding from the camera, and accurately focuses based on the subject's predicted position. (A features that sports photographers will no doubt appreciate.) I have not had a chance to test this yet, as we have had a ton of wind lately. Maybe I'll try it on a car. Just moving the camera around, it seems this feature also works with focus lock, where you select one of the 7 auto focus points for the camera to use. I will look into this more also. Overall, I love this camera, my biggest hang up is the speed, but really, how many shots do you want to dig through after each jump? I will just have to plan things out my best, and shoot when the best image presents itself. 4-5 shots on exit will suffice for me...... I hope. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #22 September 29, 2003 Thanks for the link, Wags...and the information you've provided. Please keep us informed! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Wags 0 #23 September 29, 2003 No problem, I am doing some tests right now, and am finding that, as the review I referenced said, the first buffer, being a buffer that is buffering the sensor data directly will hold 4 frams no matter what, but the second buffer being a memory buffer, will hold more pictures if they are of lower file size. Since the file size differs depending on settings, and complexity of the image, this can change drasticly even if you shoot only in the fine large mode. In the thread on this forum named "size storage card" people seem to be getting about 256 pictures on a 512MB card. That's 2MB per picture. I have set up my camera on a tripod and am taking a test image that ends up being about 2+MB. I of course get 4 frames very fast, then get another 7 somewhat fast. These first 11 images are done in about 8 seconds! That's cool I will post a new thred with the fulll results when I finish. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Alo1 0 #24 September 29, 2003 Like the EOS 10D before it, the Digital Rebel 300D offers what Canon terms "Predictive AF," which basically tracks the rate at which a subject is approaching or receding from the camera, and accurately focuses based on the subject's predicted position. (A features that sports photographers will no doubt appreciate.) I used the Af on a tandem and had abslolutley brilliant images. The AF on my Rebel G was pretty much useless on any skydive. On 3 skydives (1 tndm on level and 2 rw on top looking down) I took 45 images all with AF and every shot was crystal clear. I haven't tried to capture any swoopers yet and don't know how the camera will perform but in freefall I'm confident it will do exactly what I need Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #25 September 29, 2003 I've found the 10D focuses fine when relative, but busts on fast moving subjects like openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Deuce 1 #6 September 25, 2003 Yeah, and that's why I have suspected the digital Rebel was really going to take off. Lots of camera fliers have low-end film cameras, and the 300 is going to outperform them, plus it's digital. It allows unlimited potential to take bad pictures! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 September 25, 2003 Plus, is the half a frame per second difference between the rebelD and the 10D really worth 500$? For me? No. I'll prolly pick up a rebelD. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #8 September 25, 2003 For me - the frame rate is very important. Plus the alloy body - mmmmmmmmmm... -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chachi 0 #9 September 25, 2003 QuotePlus, is the half a frame per second difference between the rebelD and the 10D really worth 500$? For me? No. I'll prolly pick up a rebelD. _Am It does not write to disk near as fast from what I have read meaning that you may take a 4 frame burst and think you are taking more pictures but really you are still waiting for it to recycle. ~Chachi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #10 September 25, 2003 I would love for someone with multiple canon bodies to compare them in terms of their ability to maintain AF on fast-moving action. In particular, I have found the Ti to be lacking in ability to lock in on a swooper coming at me when I am on the ground. I select one of the focus points and keep it right on the swooper's eyes, but I often find that the body has decided that infinity is the best setting for a guy screaming by 10 feet away. My 7e body might be a little better at it, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part. Have you guys found that your 10D's or EOS 3's do a better job tracking the subject in AF mode? Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverds 0 #11 September 25, 2003 QuoteI often find that the body has decided that infinity is the best setting for a guy screaming by 10 feet away. I tend to avoid auto focus on these types of shots for that very reason. Edit for quote. Skydive Radio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #12 September 25, 2003 Both my EOS 50E and my D30 have no trouble with continous focussing. A lot depends on the lens tho, if I use a 'holiday lens' (in my case, a Voigtländer 28-210 mm), forget it. But my Canon 35-105 is relatively fast so it keeps up fine. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #13 September 25, 2003 I use only the center focusing point and don't have any trouble, usually, with my 28-200mm Canon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldgit 0 #14 September 25, 2003 I’m old school using 35mm film You set up the kit then get in the right place then when you see the shot take it. ( skill required ) Now it seems all you have to do is throw lots of money at a digital camera that can take lots of shots per second and pick the one you think is best ( minimal skill ) All I read now is how may frames a second the camera can take not the skill that is needed to take a great picture Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #15 September 26, 2003 I think either camera would suffice for my skydiving needs, but the 300d is significantly lighter and is therefore a better choice for me. Weight is a big deal to me, having been "schwacked" a few times!! The plastic body doesn't bother me, I jumped a Rebelx/s for years and had great service out of it. FWIW, Steve Babin"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #16 September 26, 2003 Oldgit, your argument is valid. But even in film, the best had several gaffers loading and unloading cameras. Now we can do that for much less money. On only one camera. I am still badass, but I can get 60 shots per skydive, instead of 36. I am not as badass as somebody who jumped a huge format camera and only got one photo per shoot. It's good for the sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #17 September 26, 2003 I agree with you, Deuce. While I would love to be able to fix the focus and wait wait wait for the perfect moment and then capture it forever with perfect skill, I must unfortunately rely on cranking out 10 frames per swoop and hoping that one is a keeper. I understand the other argument too, though. Even if I went off to war, there are very few situations that I would even consider using full auto on a rifle. Even up close, marksmanship beats equipment. But if I could not shoot worth a crap, I would use the hell out of full auto and hope for the best. But enough of that strained analogy. Maybe someday I'll set up a large format rig and get the perfect shot through skill and planning. But right now I have trouble doing that with landscapes, so action is out of the question. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 September 27, 2003 So I finally got to play with one of the Rebel Digitals, and I've found a largish set back. No home built remotes. The Rebel Digital does not use the N3 plug like the 10D, D60, D30, ect. It uses the same size pulg (1/8") as the EOS Rebel series, Elan 7, ect. The problem is it is not a mater of just making a conection to trigger the shutter. Couldn't make it trigger with my normal switch, or a brand new Conceptus switch. The remote unit from Canon appears to make some sort of specific code to release the shutter. I'm going to look into it, let ya'll know more as I do....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vidiot 0 #19 September 27, 2003 QuoteThe remote unit from Canon appears to make some sort of specific code to release the shutter. Hmmh, Canon lists RC-1/ RC-5/ RS-60E3 as Remote Controllers/Switches for this camera. At least the RS-60E3 seems to be a simple switch. It is listed to be compatible with the analogue Rebel and judging by the look and price (~ $25) I doubt it contains any electronic gimmicks. Drop Ed from Conceptus an email, I'm sure he'll get out of his way to find a solution. Let us know how it works out.. HTH, KlausMy Logbook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alo1 0 #20 September 29, 2003 I just got the digital rebel this weekend. My remote switch worked great..the same one I used for my film rebel G. Also only cost about about $2.50 in parts and 20 minutes labour. I can assure you there is NO electronic coding/wizardy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #21 September 29, 2003 Quote No home built remotes. The Rebel Digital does not use the N3 plug like the 10D, D60, D30, ect. It uses the same size pulg (1/8") as the EOS Rebel series, Elan 7, ect. This is why I like my Digital Rebel, it works with the same bite switch I use with my Rebel 2000. As far as AndyMan referencing the half frame per second difference. The biggest difference for us, as has been discussed here before, is the buffer, 4 frames for the Rebel, and 9 for the 10D. Actually they each seem to have two buffers of equal size, you can read more about that in this awesome review at http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/EDR/EDRA7.HTM Both cameras will take 4(Rebel) or 9(10D) shots very fast, then 4(Rebel) or 17-25(10D) shots kind of fast, then wait for the buffer to dump at least one picture to the card before being able to take another shot. The one thing that sucks, is that neither will write at the same time as they shoot, that would be a big plus, and I am sure their will be a model that will do it someday soon. By the numbers above, you can see that using the second buffer, the 10D will take a lot more shots in a minuet then the Rebel. Just shooting on the ground with my Rebel, I figure I can take 15 shots in 30 seconds. We do tandems here from 10K, so the freefall is about 30 sec. I don't know when I will get a chance to try it in the air, as I am usually the one in the video, instead of taking it. I will post my results when I get a chance. As far as the auto focus problem brought up by Brent, here is a quote from the above review I posted a link for. Like the EOS 10D before it, the Digital Rebel 300D offers what Canon terms "Predictive AF," which basically tracks the rate at which a subject is approaching or receding from the camera, and accurately focuses based on the subject's predicted position. (A features that sports photographers will no doubt appreciate.) I have not had a chance to test this yet, as we have had a ton of wind lately. Maybe I'll try it on a car. Just moving the camera around, it seems this feature also works with focus lock, where you select one of the 7 auto focus points for the camera to use. I will look into this more also. Overall, I love this camera, my biggest hang up is the speed, but really, how many shots do you want to dig through after each jump? I will just have to plan things out my best, and shoot when the best image presents itself. 4-5 shots on exit will suffice for me...... I hope. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #22 September 29, 2003 Thanks for the link, Wags...and the information you've provided. Please keep us informed! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wags 0 #23 September 29, 2003 No problem, I am doing some tests right now, and am finding that, as the review I referenced said, the first buffer, being a buffer that is buffering the sensor data directly will hold 4 frams no matter what, but the second buffer being a memory buffer, will hold more pictures if they are of lower file size. Since the file size differs depending on settings, and complexity of the image, this can change drasticly even if you shoot only in the fine large mode. In the thread on this forum named "size storage card" people seem to be getting about 256 pictures on a 512MB card. That's 2MB per picture. I have set up my camera on a tripod and am taking a test image that ends up being about 2+MB. I of course get 4 frames very fast, then get another 7 somewhat fast. These first 11 images are done in about 8 seconds! That's cool I will post a new thred with the fulll results when I finish. Blue Skies, Wags Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alo1 0 #24 September 29, 2003 Like the EOS 10D before it, the Digital Rebel 300D offers what Canon terms "Predictive AF," which basically tracks the rate at which a subject is approaching or receding from the camera, and accurately focuses based on the subject's predicted position. (A features that sports photographers will no doubt appreciate.) I used the Af on a tandem and had abslolutley brilliant images. The AF on my Rebel G was pretty much useless on any skydive. On 3 skydives (1 tndm on level and 2 rw on top looking down) I took 45 images all with AF and every shot was crystal clear. I haven't tried to capture any swoopers yet and don't know how the camera will perform but in freefall I'm confident it will do exactly what I need Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #25 September 29, 2003 I've found the 10D focuses fine when relative, but busts on fast moving subjects like openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
