Types of Canopies

[a97virago 0]

Nick,

In a way, I agree with Skybytch. Had I not know you were kidding, that might have gotten me killed. Sometimes sarcasm needs to be spelled out to avoid misinformation
However, you're right, Peter, Fritz, and the others are a great source of info, and I can't wait to get together with them in the Spring. Peter was out on the field when I had my mal, I think he was more panicked than I was!

And if you don't mind jumping with a newbie belly flyer, I'd love to jump with you. As soon as I'm cleared of student status!

Larry A-43434

[a97virago 0]

That's exactly my intent! That's even why I ask this question here. In my line of work, the most powerful commodity is information. The more you can get, the more informed the questions you can ask, the more informed a decision you can make and the more you can tell the good advice from the bad.

The only dumb question is the one not asked!

Larry A-43434

[skybytch 259]

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Had I not know you were kidding, that might have gotten me killed. Sometimes sarcasm needs to be spelled out to avoid misinformation

Bingo. The majority of people here don't come to the topical forums hoping to read what someone else thinks is funny. They come here for information and opinion and go to TalkBack for laughs and sarcasm. I moderate this forum for the majority.

[nicknitro71 0]

I'm a coach so for as long as you signed off to jump on your own we're in business. We can make some coach jumps together. It'll be fun!

Take care

Memento Audere Semper

903

[a97virago 0]

I'm 2 jumps into Solo, so a few more jumps and LET'S GO!!!

Larry A-43434

[fudd 0]

I'll just add, if you go for second hand equipment, be careful if your buying an old F111. The fabric in those canopies wears faster than the newer and better canopies suggested here. Also if you buy second hand, ask some experienced people what they think of the price.

Try before you buy. It's also a good idea to demo some different canopies too.

A curious mind is what keeps you alive in this sport, so keep asking questions.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[DJL 232]

Not to steal the thread but are there even any more canopies made with F-111? Even all the CRW jumpers are going all zp. If I were in the market for a canopy I'd pass on a good deal for an F-111 canopy, even a hybrid. It's not just that it would rat out quicker, you probably couldn't even give it away if it had more than a few hundred jumps.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[dragon2 0]

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Not to steal the thread but are there even any more canopies made with F-111? Even all the CRW jumpers are going all zp. If I were in the market for a canopy I'd pass on a good deal for an F-111 canopy, even a hybrid. It's not just that it would rat out quicker, you probably couldn't even give it away if it had more than a few hundred jumps.

Well hybrids are of course still made. I believe PdF's Electra and PD's Silhouette sell quite well.

Not my personal choice, but man, do they pack way easier

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[rhino 0]

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A Spectre or a Triathlon are both excellent canopies to learn on.

Agreed... I'd go with the Tri because it is easier to pack..

[riddler 0]

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Agreed... I'd go with the Tri because it is easier to pack..

Definately true - I love my tri. I would suggest for a newer person to get the tri if they want a good overall canopy. But if they don't mind spending more money, the Spectre opens a tiny bit softer (IMO), flares a tad better (IMO) and lands just a little better (IMO). It is much nicer packing my tri, though
Also, I don't see anything wrong with asking questions like this on dz.com. Get many different opinions, trust your instructors more than us, and trust yourself the most - DEMO a few canopies! Manufacturers are usually great about demos and if they're not, you don't want to buy from them.

[Ron 7]

The problem is a large number of posters here don't have much more experience than the person asking the question.
My personal favorite post is * Help, I failed AFF level 4...What should I do?*
Then you get a bunch of guys that just passed level 7 trying to teach someone over the internet to pass level 4....Man that kills me...Listen to your instructors!

And you can't verify the skill or knowlege of the poster. So you might get advice from a guy with LESS JUMPS THAN YOU.
How do you know otherwise?

A guy with 100 jumps telling a guy with 30 that he will be ok under a canopy type/size/wingload/color/ect....The 100 jumps wonder only knows what (so far) has worked for him.
But the ready may not know that....

I don't know you...or your skill level, or your fittness level...So how can I tell you what you should do?

So like I said...Ask your instructors!!!, not the news group, or DZ.com.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[relyon 0]

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Talk to your instructors, riggers, DZ owners, other respected jumpers at your DZ!

Be as careful of local advice as you would from any other source. A guy who started jumping at the same time and place I did was advised to buy a Tri-160 for his first canopy. He asked if he shouldn't try something intermediate first. The answer was that there was no need, so he went directly from the student Goliath (375?) he'd been jumping to the 160 after roughly 40 jumps.

The person giving the advice was an accomplished skydiver, master rigger, IE, and the dz STA.

Bob

[lummy 4]

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* Help, I failed AFF level 4...What should I do?*
Then you get a bunch of guys that just passed level 7 trying to teach someone over the internet to pass level 4....Man that kills me...Listen to your instructors!

What's wrong with that? Why Is it wrong for students who are near the same level to compare notes,stories and give advice? Do you still feel that nervousness just before each n every jump like you did on your first? When was the last time you were bummed all day cause you forgot to do a PRCP or you potato chipped?
I do completely agree with you about LISTENING to instructors. I just disagree with the notion that a Student has nothing useful to offer.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[iam 0]

The electra is not Hybris as far as I know. I jump one and it can be a bitch to pack.

"Don't ever knock on deaths door, just ring the bell and run away - it really pisses him off"

[KATO33 0]

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Ok, rant time. Just because you can ask here, WHY ARE YOU!. Talk to your instructors, riggers, DZ owners, other respected jumpers at your DZ! Not that you'll get better answers, but at least you'll know who they are coming from.

This might not always be the best route.
In My case the DZO who helped me with my gear was also a dealer for a Icarus so guess what kind of canopy I own.
At that time I was unaware of dz.com or any other Skydiving forum. So i only had the DZO's (biased) opinion.
I now use DZ.Com as a crosss reference.

Blue Skies Black Death

[drenaline 0]

Hiya Larry, here are my 2 cents:

if its your first gear get used and use a wingloading of 1.0 or 1.1 (grain of salt, ask your instructor), the reason is for no reverse mode when the winds are high.

Since I am no instructor I could be mistaken about the reverse ride so take what I just said with salt.

Oh yeah and buy a case

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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The electra is not Hybris as far as I know. I jump one and it can be a bitch to pack.

The PdF Electra is a hybrid (dual-fabric) canopy:

From the PdF website:

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Un extrados en PF ZP-00A pour la performance, un intrados en PF 2500 qui autorise la décoration et ravit les sponsors, l'ensemble avec des suspentes en polyéthylène associées à un glisseur rétractable possédant des oeillets inox assurent une longévité maximum.

Translated by babelfish:

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A suction face in PF Zp-00a for the performance, an under-surface in PF 2500 which authorizes decoration and ravit the sponsors, the whole with polyethylene suspending rods associated with a retractable slide block having with the eyelets stainless ensures a maximum longevity.

[b1jercat 0]

[b1jercat 0]

hi larry,
I have alot of the same question you do . I have 25 jumps and my dz just moved me off student gear to rental gear "265 falcon to 220 triathlon." In the meantime I jumped at three other dropzones to see other types of gear.A word of caution one of my boogies ended in my first reserve ride, not all dzs are the sameor will look after you as well as the people who trained you.I just read everything I can get my hands on and fly every strange rig conservitely.good luck blue skys.

[Ron 7]

Bad information in this sport can kill..

If you would rather listen to a guy with a cool screen name that has WAY more posts than jumps, than an instructor or S&TA...Then have fun.

A student should not be telling another student how to skydive.....And nobody should be trying to coach/teach over the internet.

As for me, if I want gear advice...I ask a rigger. If I want skydiving advice, I ask a coach (Not the USPA coach...more like Solly, Garry, Joey, Doug, John Hoover ect).

But if you want to take advice from people who you don't know, and who don't know you....And you have no idea who they are...then have fun.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[skybytch 259]

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A student should not be telling another student how to skydive.....

Better keep them students from talking to each other at the dz then. Better yet, keep those students from talking to anyone except their instructors until they're off student status. Cuz we all know how skydivers like to talk about skydiving... even skydivers who don't have licenses or ratings. And we can't have them talking to newbies...

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If I want skydiving advice, I ask a coach (Not the USPA coach...more like Solly, Garry, Joey, Doug, John Hoover ect).

Not every jumper is lucky enough to jump at Deland, Perris, Eloy, Chicago or other dz's where people like "Solly, Garry, Joey, Doug, John Hoover, ect." jump. Should these jumpers just accept the fact that they will never get any better because they don't have access to a coach with a "name"?

Not every jumper has a rigger's phone number in their address book. Lots of newer jumpers don't even know who's a rigger and who's not at their home dz.

Many newer jumpers are getting no information at all about equipment from their instructors; I talk to these newer jumpers every day. imho, no one should make it to the point of thinking about buying gear without having had a solid briefing about what's available and what might be best for them. Unfortunately, few instructors/schools make a point of this.

So if Joe Student doesn't have access to the caliber of coaches you prefer, doesn't know who in his area is a rigger and doesn't want to interrupt his instructors (who are busy working with other students) during the few hours a weekend he can spend at the dz, who exactly is he supposed to ask his questions of?

I've been "teaching" people about skydiving since I had about 20 jumps - I basically "taught" my ex how to do relative work and I had about 5 more jumps than he did at the time. I took what was taught to me by other jumpers and passed it on to others. When I learned to jump, that's what it was all about - passing on what you knew to others, even if you didn't have a piece of paper that said you knew something, and amazingly enough most people did so without getting paid for it. My how things have changed.

[a97virago 0]

Hooray, hooray,. hooray!

Finally someone got it! Thank you again skybytch!!!

For the rest...

For myself, I know to take any and all information with a grain of salt! Especially on the internet! But the other side of the internet, there are alot of great people with great and valuable information out there too. People who I would never get to pick their brains otherwise.

As I have said many times before. I am not looking for anyone to tell me what to buy. To put another way, I'm asking "Is a Corvette an SUV, Family sedan or Sports car" I know very little about the different makes of canopies, and am just looking to find out what their differences are!

For myself, I am gathering all the information I can get my hands on, talking to as many people as I can, and bouncing it off my DZ staff. That's my decision making process.

It's fair to warn that not all information should be taken as gospel, however, why not share the information that you have gathered along the way? Isn't that the idea behind this Forum?

Larry A-43434

[Ron 7]

Ok have fun then...

Its not about a paper ticket that says you can do something...Its about haveing the knowledge to do it.

An AFF 7 does not know what an AFF 2 should do. He only knows what he did.

But I don't really care who you listen to....

And yes, some people will take what they hear and use it to make a choice...Others will just take what they are told as truth and go with it.....Such as the guy who joking told that guy to get a sub 100 canopy....The guy didn't know he was joking.

So like I said have fun.

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Not every jumper is lucky enough to jump at Deland, Perris, Eloy, Chicago or other dz's
where people like "Solly, Garry, Joey, Doug, John Hoover, ect." jump. Should these
jumpers just accept the fact that they will never get any better because they don't have
access to a coach with a "name"?

I never said that....What I did say is that a guy with 100 jumps should not be teaching another guy with 50 jumps how to track, or what to jump. Get the best knowlegde you can.....If thats a guy with 100 jumps fine, but if you have an AFF I sitting there talk to him.

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Not every jumper has a rigger's phone number in their address book. Lots of newer
jumpers don't even know who's a rigger and who's not at their home dz.

Then maybe they should find one.

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Many newer jumpers are getting no information at all about equipment from their
instructors; I talk to these newer jumpers every day. imho, no one should make it to
the point of thinking about buying gear without having had a solid briefing about what's
available and what might be best for them.

So instead of getting a reputable source they should just get any advice???? Like the guy that jokingly told him about the sub 100 canopy?

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I've been "teaching" people about skydiving since I had about 20 jumps

Were there people better qualified to teach him...and you? Why did you not go and seek them out?

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When I learned to jump, that's what it was all about - passing on what you knew to
others, even if you didn't have a piece of paper that said you knew something, and
amazingly enough most people did so without getting paid for it. My how things have
changed.

It is still about that...but you should know what you are saying, before you say it....

And I coach, teach, mentor all the time....I hardly ever charge for it. I am giving back everyday.

All I ever said was why ask here when there are people who know you, and you know that you can ask?

I would not start trying to teach Flying right now...I have been flying for 6 years, but I don't have the knowledge to teach it....A 100 jump wonder does not know enough to teach skydiving either.

Oh well, have fun

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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if I want gear advice...I ask a rigger.

Not all riggers are a like.

I have easy access to two riggers right now. One of them is an extremely experienced skydiver not only being a rigger but also an AFF Instructor, Tandem Master, big-way jumper and one hot canopy pilot (he's also a regular DZ.COM contributor who's currently on the top ten DZ.COM character poll) and everything he says I try to absorb like a sponge. The other one is an extemely young guy who's got less jumps than myself and a certain "I know it all" attitude when it comes to gear. But we know that's not true. Now I know this younger guy knows more about gear than I do, but I'm leary to take his advice and he's yet to touch my rig. But I'm afraid that the experienced rigger is going to leave the state soon and I'll either have to seek out a new rigger or start working with this younger guy.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[rgoper 0]

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A 100 jump wonder does not know enough to teach skydiving either.

i can remember being a "100 jump wonder" i made 168 jumps my first year of sky diving, did i know it all? hell no, but did i think i did? hell yeah! a bunch of sky divers i went through AFP with were all still jumping the same DZ and we shared information with each other. the original divemasters there at the time always kept a watchful eye on us as well.

but i believe your theory on asking for advice anywhere other than your DZ is "sound advice" IMO. unless your just "comparing notes" just last year, i was about to make a fatal canopy selection at a rediculous wing load of 2:2:1, one of my ex dive masters literally "saved my life" i asked him "do you think i can do it?" and he told me "no way" that was enough for me, because he knew my ability, and it didn't hurt my feelings for him to tell me what he thought, i wouldn't have asked if i didn't value his opinion, but having said all of that, this particular individual is in astronomical jump numbers and the "pro" category when it comes to canopy piloting, i'm not.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"