deurich2003 0 #1 April 5, 2004 Looking to see where most people fit into the above. Thanks. Never Give up! Never Surrender! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #2 April 5, 2004 Like my profile says, I load my reserve at 1.38Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cacophony 0 #3 April 5, 2004 1.2 baby! Oh yeah! I've almost been knocked out in freefall before, so I understand how important it is to have a docile reserve that you could land under assuming you weren't conscious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshi 0 #4 April 5, 2004 right around 1.5 depending on how much I have eaten..or gotten rid of_________________________________________ this space for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 April 5, 2004 Roughly 1.6 I have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. I think anyone who loads theirs heavily should do the same. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #6 April 5, 2004 QuoteI have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. I think anyone who loads theirs heavily should do the same. Thats pretty funny. I don't see the point at all. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #7 April 5, 2004 1.69 with dive loops sewn on the risers to hook it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #8 April 5, 2004 Quote Thats pretty funny. I don't see the point at all. That's pretty typical of one of the two reactions I get. No matter what size your reserve, you had better be willing to do a down-wind landing in the worst conditions. Shit happens. I would MUCH rather be prepared, know what I'm capable of, and what my gear is capable of before I end up needing it. 500 feet is not the time were we should be wondering "Hmm. I wonder if I can pull this off....." More importantly, now I have a pretty good idea of how much "runway" I need to pull off that particular manuever. It ended up being quite a bit more then I would have guessed. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raymod2 1 #9 April 5, 2004 Quote I have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. Did you PLF? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #10 April 5, 2004 Well I disagree thats all. I am loading slightly above 1.75 and while I have landed it downwind a couple of times by choice, I just do not see the point for everyone to land downwind under reserve to just see if they can. They can find out when the time comes if they ever need to. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xheadrasta 0 #11 April 6, 2004 QuoteQuote Thats pretty funny. I don't see the point at all. That's pretty typical of one of the two reactions I get. No matter what size your reserve, you had better be willing to do a down-wind landing in the worst conditions. Shit happens. I would MUCH rather be prepared, know what I'm capable of, and what my gear is capable of before I end up needing it. 500 feet is not the time were we should be wondering "Hmm. I wonder if I can pull this off....." More importantly, now I have a pretty good idea of how much "runway" I need to pull off that particular manuever. It ended up being quite a bit more then I would have guessed. _Am Andy, I agree with you about demoing the type of reserve you will be using. I think everyone should do this. I have and always will when I chose a reserve. My concern would be...what happens if you are unconcious? Knowing how you can land your reserve downwind is a good thing but what happens when you have no control? If we could have our choice I'd prefer a PD-210 over my head as my reserve. But a Vector3 with a Xfire 119 and a PD-210 would look awfully ugly! So I load my 160 @ 1.4. :) Blue Skies, ScottI read somewhere to learn is to remember and I've learned we all forgot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipro101 0 #12 April 6, 2004 QuoteRoughly 1.6 I have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. I think anyone who loads theirs heavily should do the same. _Am I have heard this before and dont see the logic. Thats like saying "a pilot should land in a 30 knot x-wind component for practice. I mean, what if you fly into a storm and need to land? I would MUCH rather fly the landing knowing ahead of time that i was goingto fly it, before it actually happens"/end sarcasm lol..the problem is that it doesnt matter much whether you know on the ground before the jump that your going to make the landing or whether you find out at 2000ft. You still have to perform it. Its either going to be your first time on an actual emergency, or your first time on an intentional one... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #13 April 6, 2004 Around 1.6 or so on a PDr 176. I've flown demo versions of that canopy before, flies really nice, easy to sink, easy to shut down, powerful flare. Hell, it even swoops fairly well.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #14 April 6, 2004 1.4 for me. I've landed a reserve at 1.75....and it was a beautiful landing....but it was ON DZ...and I would have hated to land off in some small field with that canopy. Because of that, a couple years ago I bought a rig that holds a 120 main, 160 reserve. I'm now jumping a 103 main at 2.15 and a 160 reserve at 1.4. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #15 April 6, 2004 I load my PD 106's at 1.6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #16 April 6, 2004 500 feet is not the time were we should be wondering "Hmm. I wonder if I can pull this off....." QuoteAt that altitude, shouldn't you be able to turn into the wind? I agree that you should be able to do the downwinder, just the wear and tear if you slide it out, or the chance of minor or major injury make me relunctant to try it. It's kind of like practicing laying a motorcycle down. Did you have a smooth grass runway for all this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeeeeeeFly 0 #17 April 6, 2004 1.53 Aerodyne Smart Already rode it once... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #18 April 6, 2004 1.8 dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites koz2000 1 #19 April 6, 2004 According to my profile, 1.86 D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites garyharbird 0 #20 April 6, 2004 Pd106 loaded at 1.85 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #21 April 6, 2004 QuoteAt that altitude, shouldn't you be able to turn into the wind? There have been WAY too many fatalities from people who thought they had to turn into the wind. I said 500 feet because when we're under our reserve, we're often low and "off". 500 feet may be very conservative. There's countless reasons why you might find yourself at even lower altitudes. 200 feet? Not impossible. We all talk about now its not necesary to land into the wind. The reality is that pretty much people do what they plan for, and if you plan on all your reserve landings being into the wind, then that's probably what you'll do... Even if you're too low to pull it off. QuoteDid you have a smooth grass runway for all this? Of course. Practice under the best conditions so that you're prepared for the worst conditions. I do get a lot of pushback on this idea. (i also get a lot of kudos) I think that most of the people who object are really just afraid of doing it themselves. A good modern PD reserve flies pretty similarly to a main. I see hotshot swoopers downwinding their mains all the time. What is it about a new modern PD reserve that makes it so much more dangerous then doing the same manuever under a main? I think that if people aren't willing to downwind their reserve EVER, then that's a good sign that they're jumping a reserve thats too small. Secondly, if you are willing to do it in good conditions but not bad, that's a sign that maybe you shouldn't be jumping in those bad conditions. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #22 April 6, 2004 1.6, and I have landed my PD Reserve off the DZ after my mal, crosswind (so I would land with the rows on the field) and put it down right in between two small rolling hills. I choose to PLF it before landing because I didn't want to take any chances with all that going on at once. Also, it is not the smallest 7 cell canopy I have jumped, and that was a factor in my decision. I can tell you this - if I land canopy without a flare, something will get broken. I have also jumped a PD Reserve as a main on three other occasions._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kansasskydiver 0 #23 April 10, 2004 QuoteI have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. I think anyone who loads theirs heavily should do the same. _Am Does landing my old main (sabre 170 1.5/1), in full flight, off the dz, night jump, no moon, no flipping idea where the dz was, drifting backwards towards a train, not flaring because I didn't know I was that close count? Or do I have to land downwind on purpose<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #24 April 11, 2004 I know you're asking facetiously, but I'll answer anyways. My point is that you should be able to land your reserve in the worst conditions that you jump in. Doing so ensures that: 1) that you're jumping a reserve of a reasonable size, and 2) that you're jumping in reasonable conditions. So to answer your question, No. Because 1) You did it on your main, not your reserve. Your main is your best case, your reserve is your worst. Plan for the worst. 2) Knowing where the DZ is located is something you can control. For most people, not knowing where the DZ isn't an option, so there's no need to plan for it, or prepare for it. 3) Not flaring helps nothing, and without additional info, it sounds like a stupid thing to do. Certainly not something I'd recomend, nor something I plan on doing, nor will I prepare for it. On the other hand, 1) Drifting backwards? If you're going to jump in high winds, I certainly hope you know how to land while backing up. Landing downwind in less than ideal conditions is a very real posibility on every jump, which is exacerbated when under your reserve. It's a very real possibility, and a whole lot of people died last year because they thought they HAD to turn into the wind. Be prepared to land downwind so that you don't make a stupid choice. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #25 April 11, 2004 QuoteSo to answer your question, No. Because 1) You did it on your main, not your reserve. Your main is your best case, your reserve is your worst. So do you feel my reserve is my "worst case" scenario? My reserve is a PD160R loaded at about 1.4...while my main is a Xaos 103 loaded at almost 2.2. I certainly don't agree with your reasoning(for a 20mph downwinder on your reserve), but you already know that. You made a statement once that everybody should be able to land their reserve downwind in 20mph winds....or they shouldn't be jumping that reserve. I still stand by my original assesment of your actions in that regard. I won't land my main intentionally downwind in 20mph winds...nor my reserve. Of course, you'll say I shouldn't be jumping in 20mph winds because of that. I said I won't do it INTENTIONALLY....there's too much risk involved..it's kinda like chopping a perfectly good main just to be able to say you had a reserve ride "under controlled circumstances" before it happened for real. If I end up downwind under my reserve....well, I'll be happy it isn't my main...and take the downwinder...hell, I've landed my main downwind in 10mph winds....I am confident I can do the same(even with stronger winds, if necessary) under my reserve. I've been doing this long enough that I know when to stay on the ground. I hope others have good enough judgement in this area as well to not do intentional downwind landings with 20+mph winds...or to jump at all when the winds are that high.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
GeeeeeeFly 0 #17 April 6, 2004 1.53 Aerodyne Smart Already rode it once... ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #18 April 6, 2004 1.8 dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #19 April 6, 2004 According to my profile, 1.86 D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
garyharbird 0 #20 April 6, 2004 Pd106 loaded at 1.85 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #21 April 6, 2004 QuoteAt that altitude, shouldn't you be able to turn into the wind? There have been WAY too many fatalities from people who thought they had to turn into the wind. I said 500 feet because when we're under our reserve, we're often low and "off". 500 feet may be very conservative. There's countless reasons why you might find yourself at even lower altitudes. 200 feet? Not impossible. We all talk about now its not necesary to land into the wind. The reality is that pretty much people do what they plan for, and if you plan on all your reserve landings being into the wind, then that's probably what you'll do... Even if you're too low to pull it off. QuoteDid you have a smooth grass runway for all this? Of course. Practice under the best conditions so that you're prepared for the worst conditions. I do get a lot of pushback on this idea. (i also get a lot of kudos) I think that most of the people who object are really just afraid of doing it themselves. A good modern PD reserve flies pretty similarly to a main. I see hotshot swoopers downwinding their mains all the time. What is it about a new modern PD reserve that makes it so much more dangerous then doing the same manuever under a main? I think that if people aren't willing to downwind their reserve EVER, then that's a good sign that they're jumping a reserve thats too small. Secondly, if you are willing to do it in good conditions but not bad, that's a sign that maybe you shouldn't be jumping in those bad conditions. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #22 April 6, 2004 1.6, and I have landed my PD Reserve off the DZ after my mal, crosswind (so I would land with the rows on the field) and put it down right in between two small rolling hills. I choose to PLF it before landing because I didn't want to take any chances with all that going on at once. Also, it is not the smallest 7 cell canopy I have jumped, and that was a factor in my decision. I can tell you this - if I land canopy without a flare, something will get broken. I have also jumped a PD Reserve as a main on three other occasions._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kansasskydiver 0 #23 April 10, 2004 QuoteI have also landed a demo-version downwind in 20MPH winds, intentionally. I think anyone who loads theirs heavily should do the same. _Am Does landing my old main (sabre 170 1.5/1), in full flight, off the dz, night jump, no moon, no flipping idea where the dz was, drifting backwards towards a train, not flaring because I didn't know I was that close count? Or do I have to land downwind on purpose<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #24 April 11, 2004 I know you're asking facetiously, but I'll answer anyways. My point is that you should be able to land your reserve in the worst conditions that you jump in. Doing so ensures that: 1) that you're jumping a reserve of a reasonable size, and 2) that you're jumping in reasonable conditions. So to answer your question, No. Because 1) You did it on your main, not your reserve. Your main is your best case, your reserve is your worst. Plan for the worst. 2) Knowing where the DZ is located is something you can control. For most people, not knowing where the DZ isn't an option, so there's no need to plan for it, or prepare for it. 3) Not flaring helps nothing, and without additional info, it sounds like a stupid thing to do. Certainly not something I'd recomend, nor something I plan on doing, nor will I prepare for it. On the other hand, 1) Drifting backwards? If you're going to jump in high winds, I certainly hope you know how to land while backing up. Landing downwind in less than ideal conditions is a very real posibility on every jump, which is exacerbated when under your reserve. It's a very real possibility, and a whole lot of people died last year because they thought they HAD to turn into the wind. Be prepared to land downwind so that you don't make a stupid choice. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #25 April 11, 2004 QuoteSo to answer your question, No. Because 1) You did it on your main, not your reserve. Your main is your best case, your reserve is your worst. So do you feel my reserve is my "worst case" scenario? My reserve is a PD160R loaded at about 1.4...while my main is a Xaos 103 loaded at almost 2.2. I certainly don't agree with your reasoning(for a 20mph downwinder on your reserve), but you already know that. You made a statement once that everybody should be able to land their reserve downwind in 20mph winds....or they shouldn't be jumping that reserve. I still stand by my original assesment of your actions in that regard. I won't land my main intentionally downwind in 20mph winds...nor my reserve. Of course, you'll say I shouldn't be jumping in 20mph winds because of that. I said I won't do it INTENTIONALLY....there's too much risk involved..it's kinda like chopping a perfectly good main just to be able to say you had a reserve ride "under controlled circumstances" before it happened for real. If I end up downwind under my reserve....well, I'll be happy it isn't my main...and take the downwinder...hell, I've landed my main downwind in 10mph winds....I am confident I can do the same(even with stronger winds, if necessary) under my reserve. I've been doing this long enough that I know when to stay on the ground. I hope others have good enough judgement in this area as well to not do intentional downwind landings with 20+mph winds...or to jump at all when the winds are that high.. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
