towerrat 0 #1 November 6, 2003 Today, I watched a guy stall his canopy on rear risers during a high speed swoop. It was very informative to say the least. The canopy acted like nothing I'd ever seen before, and I just wondered how often you more experienced folks have watched this.The canopy bucked and basically acted like an asshole, and the guy ended up on his back. How often have you guys seen this and has it been bad ? Just a little input would be cool!--------------Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #2 November 6, 2003 I saw a guy try it his first time on landing and piled into the ground. He bounced back and was fine, but he learned quite a bit. It looked like he dove, planed out a bit and went back into the same angle of the dive in the stall. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #3 November 6, 2003 Quote[How often have you guys seen this and has it been bad ? Just a little input would be cool!-------------- I've seen this twice before. The first time it put the guy flat on his back in the middle of the landing area, he was OK. The second time, the guy saved it midswoop, nice work on his part. Happens quick, doesn't it? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #4 November 6, 2003 I was just amazed at how the canopy reacted. I read somewhere that rear risers were likened to riding a bike on ice. Very strange stuff. It really puts things in perspective.---------------Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #5 November 6, 2003 well, i've done it. and it isn't any fun. i decided that i could get my vx to stop on rears (i bet someone that i could, even though i knew i couldn't). it feels quite funny. check this out http://www.proswoopingtour.com/BajaTrailer.wmv the third swoop into it, i think it's TJ langren, but he stalls it on rears there. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #6 November 6, 2003 I remember seeing it while under canopy once... Now I've got an articulated pelvis. -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aneblett 0 #7 November 6, 2003 I have seen it twice... once was a student on his first jump, and the other was a buddy of mine who lost a steering line in flight and had to land rear risers... ageS.E.X. party #2 ..It is far worse to live with fear, than to die confronting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #8 November 6, 2003 I got a nice first person perspective of a riser stall on video. I left a nice chunk of jumpsuit and ass on the taxiway. Someday I'll break down and get that canopy relined, its silly far out of trim and bit me a good one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #9 November 6, 2003 ya tj does that on purpose during the accuracy portion... ive seen him do it before.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #10 November 6, 2003 From what you said, it sounds like he did it mid swoop. That hurts, but isn't as deadly as doing it trying to pull out of the corner. What kills is when someone does it trying to pull out to the corner. It dumps you the same, but you are not allready planed out. So straight down. Thump ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #11 November 6, 2003 QuotePost: I remember seeing it while under canopy once... Now I've got an articulated pelvis. ***That's f%^*ing hilarious.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites prost 0 #12 November 6, 2003 That is a good video of a rear riser stall mid swoop. They are manageable there. I have done it. The first time was by accident. I did not know what happened at first because you go up as the stall begins. After that I played around with it to the point where I can control them. I am not really sure what purpose this would serve, but it is knowledge learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #13 November 6, 2003 Quoteyou go up as the stall begins. Huh, never heard that before. Could you explain please..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites prost 0 #14 November 6, 2003 Watch the video posted above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #15 November 6, 2003 I have stalled out my FX on rears in a swoop. One second I was swooping the next second I was sliding across the earth at a high rate of speed. The rear riser stall is much more sensitive than that of a toggle stall. Try it up high. It's pretty cool. Do a front riser turn and then jam on the rears like you are digging out of the corner. The onset of the stall will be fairly smooth. Once you see your pilot chute go straight up, you are pretty well stalled out. I have landed my VX once completely in rears, but that was on a pretty windy day. Be carefull with the rears, they can be cool , but they can bite you in the ass really quickly. Do everything repeatedly up high, and then when you can do it perfectly up there, do it some more. After you have done it some more then maybee you can think about bringing it down to the dirt. You can also do it on bigger canopy's too, but practice up high. That's all i have to say about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #16 November 6, 2003 Isn't that what pilots call a "high speed stall"? Basically you shouldn't stall due to a higher airspeed, but you do stall due to a rapid change in airfoil shape. Is that right, or would someone correct it?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 November 6, 2003 A wing stalls because a crtitical angle of attack is exceeded. This angle of atack can be exceeded at any airspeed. A canopy stalls at a higher airspeed on rear risers than toggles because toggles change the shape of the wing similar to flaps. pulling the tail down (or dropping flaps on an aircraft) changes the critical angle of attack a wing will stall at. With the tail pulled down (or flaps extended) a wing can still produce lift at a slower airspeed without stalling. An Otter will stall at a slower airspeed than a Lear jet (with no flaps extended on either aircraft). The trade off is the Lear's wing has less drag and the aircraft has a higher cruise speed. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #18 November 6, 2003 Your actually deflecting more of the air with rear riser input, but you are creating less drag than if you are using toggles. You are partly right with changing the angle of attack quickly can cause a stall too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #19 November 6, 2003 Hook and swoop saw me stall out my FX on rears. He laughed at me, and I think I might have cried, maybe I didn't, I just don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #20 November 6, 2003 oh it's the xaos guy right? i never saw a stall like this. luckily this guy was out of the corner when he stalled it. he was already going horizontally straight over the ground. he was actually gaining height. i saw some high speed stalls when they were still deep in the corner. you probably know how that looked like "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #21 November 6, 2003 He's actually transitioning his forward speed to lift by adding more rears than he needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grega 0 #22 November 6, 2003 so i noticed,.. But why was he pulling the risers still down when he noticed he stalled the canopy. he did notice right, those are pro swoopers after all Would he be able to finnish the landing more gently with toggles if he'd let up the risers the second he stalled it and transition to toggles? i know it depends where the canopy is. if it's already far behing him (lookin from the ground straight up), then i don't think at 2m he had more options. but anyway what do you guys think?"George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Spizzzarko 0 #23 November 6, 2003 It looks to me that he is intentionally trying to shut the canopy down by creating lift and then sinking it into a small area with the toggles. That can be a very unforgiving technique. Personally I would set up further back and then try to shut it down a little further into the swoop. The rule of thumb is to hold what you got when you are stalled out or to let up just slightly for stall recovery. You really don't want to put it back into full flight. Either way you really don't want to stall your canopy close to the earth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marks 0 #24 November 6, 2003 Quoteso i noticed,.. But why was he pulling the risers still down when he noticed he stalled the canopy. he did notice right, those are pro swoopers after all Would he be able to finnish the landing more gently with toggles if he'd let up the risers the second he stalled it and transition to toggles? i know it depends where the canopy is. if it's already far behing him (lookin from the ground straight up), then i don't think at 2m he had more options. but anyway what do you guys think? its accuraccy... tj knows his canopy well he is just putting it on the stall edge in that video to shut it down durring an accuraccy swoop. he is doing it intentionnally.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites twnsnd 1 #25 November 6, 2003 True. When you need to drop on a dime, a rear riser stall would be a good way to go about it. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
prost 0 #12 November 6, 2003 That is a good video of a rear riser stall mid swoop. They are manageable there. I have done it. The first time was by accident. I did not know what happened at first because you go up as the stall begins. After that I played around with it to the point where I can control them. I am not really sure what purpose this would serve, but it is knowledge learned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #13 November 6, 2003 Quoteyou go up as the stall begins. Huh, never heard that before. Could you explain please..."George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prost 0 #14 November 6, 2003 Watch the video posted above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #15 November 6, 2003 I have stalled out my FX on rears in a swoop. One second I was swooping the next second I was sliding across the earth at a high rate of speed. The rear riser stall is much more sensitive than that of a toggle stall. Try it up high. It's pretty cool. Do a front riser turn and then jam on the rears like you are digging out of the corner. The onset of the stall will be fairly smooth. Once you see your pilot chute go straight up, you are pretty well stalled out. I have landed my VX once completely in rears, but that was on a pretty windy day. Be carefull with the rears, they can be cool , but they can bite you in the ass really quickly. Do everything repeatedly up high, and then when you can do it perfectly up there, do it some more. After you have done it some more then maybee you can think about bringing it down to the dirt. You can also do it on bigger canopy's too, but practice up high. That's all i have to say about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 November 6, 2003 Isn't that what pilots call a "high speed stall"? Basically you shouldn't stall due to a higher airspeed, but you do stall due to a rapid change in airfoil shape. Is that right, or would someone correct it?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 November 6, 2003 A wing stalls because a crtitical angle of attack is exceeded. This angle of atack can be exceeded at any airspeed. A canopy stalls at a higher airspeed on rear risers than toggles because toggles change the shape of the wing similar to flaps. pulling the tail down (or dropping flaps on an aircraft) changes the critical angle of attack a wing will stall at. With the tail pulled down (or flaps extended) a wing can still produce lift at a slower airspeed without stalling. An Otter will stall at a slower airspeed than a Lear jet (with no flaps extended on either aircraft). The trade off is the Lear's wing has less drag and the aircraft has a higher cruise speed. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #18 November 6, 2003 Your actually deflecting more of the air with rear riser input, but you are creating less drag than if you are using toggles. You are partly right with changing the angle of attack quickly can cause a stall too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #19 November 6, 2003 Hook and swoop saw me stall out my FX on rears. He laughed at me, and I think I might have cried, maybe I didn't, I just don't know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #20 November 6, 2003 oh it's the xaos guy right? i never saw a stall like this. luckily this guy was out of the corner when he stalled it. he was already going horizontally straight over the ground. he was actually gaining height. i saw some high speed stalls when they were still deep in the corner. you probably know how that looked like "George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #21 November 6, 2003 He's actually transitioning his forward speed to lift by adding more rears than he needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grega 0 #22 November 6, 2003 so i noticed,.. But why was he pulling the risers still down when he noticed he stalled the canopy. he did notice right, those are pro swoopers after all Would he be able to finnish the landing more gently with toggles if he'd let up the risers the second he stalled it and transition to toggles? i know it depends where the canopy is. if it's already far behing him (lookin from the ground straight up), then i don't think at 2m he had more options. but anyway what do you guys think?"George just lucky i guess!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #23 November 6, 2003 It looks to me that he is intentionally trying to shut the canopy down by creating lift and then sinking it into a small area with the toggles. That can be a very unforgiving technique. Personally I would set up further back and then try to shut it down a little further into the swoop. The rule of thumb is to hold what you got when you are stalled out or to let up just slightly for stall recovery. You really don't want to put it back into full flight. Either way you really don't want to stall your canopy close to the earth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #24 November 6, 2003 Quoteso i noticed,.. But why was he pulling the risers still down when he noticed he stalled the canopy. he did notice right, those are pro swoopers after all Would he be able to finnish the landing more gently with toggles if he'd let up the risers the second he stalled it and transition to toggles? i know it depends where the canopy is. if it's already far behing him (lookin from the ground straight up), then i don't think at 2m he had more options. but anyway what do you guys think? its accuraccy... tj knows his canopy well he is just putting it on the stall edge in that video to shut it down durring an accuraccy swoop. he is doing it intentionnally.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #25 November 6, 2003 True. When you need to drop on a dime, a rear riser stall would be a good way to go about it. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
