Skydive2 1 #51 September 18, 2003 Bruno, I have to wonder why jump such a small canopy at such a high wingloading, when the pictures show that you don't seem to be ready. Don't get me wrong, I have respect for you, due to the fact that you jump a 55 square foot canopy, and can land it. That is an accomplishment. But, why jump a such a high performance canopy only to land it straight in. Speed equals lift. Is there really a point other than to be able to say "I jump a 55 loaded at 3.5"?? Lance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steel 0 #52 September 18, 2003 QuoteBruno, I have to wonder why jump such a small canopy at such a high wingloading, when the pictures show that you don't seem to be ready. Don't get me wrong, I have respect for you, due to the fact that you jump a 55 square foot canopy, and can land it. That is an accomplishment. But, why jump a such a high performance canopy only to land it straight in. Speed equals lift. Is there really a point other than to be able to say "I jump a 55 loaded at 3.5"?? Lance since this is not an extremely offensive post and for the sake of accuracy I will respond. 95% of my landings involve a 270 before landing. If you are suggesting that somebody who does a 270 followed by a swoop in which at the end of his swoop kicks an 18" ball can not handle his canopy. Then I would ask what your criteria for being ready for a canopy is. BTW the wingloading is over 4 and not anywhere near 3.5If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #53 September 18, 2003 QuoteLike I said Bruno, if you are dumb enough to post pics of a non existent swoop, people are going to call you on it. Those pics show a very poor landing, you digging out, and your body laguage says "oh god, please help me survive another one". No one asked you to embarass yourself by putting those pics up, and clearly, no one is impressed. (I guess in your mind, the thousands of impressed fans just haven't bothered to post). Drew gave you an excellent suggestion: Canopy Coaching. Given an appropriately loaded canopy and several hundred supervised landings, you may be able to swoop.....one day. Sincerely, Tree That sounds like a personal attack, man. Watch it. Besides, you are TOTALLY inaccurate. I was there the day those pics were taken, and it was a great landing. Until you see it in person, don't take it upon yourself to bash. And by the way, for the record, he's PERFECTLY confident in the way he flies and lands the canopy. There is no "oh, god" factor. He wouldn't do it if he wasn't comfortable--he's confident, not crazy! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #54 September 18, 2003 in before the lock!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeedToJump 0 #55 September 18, 2003 WTF is up with all the bashing comments? Sure he's not getting the most distance/speed/performance out of his canopy, but he has stated that that's not his purpose. I personally don't think I will ever fly something that small (and at 500 jumps I'd have a looooong way to go anyway) but if he has fun doing it then fine. Bruno - could you post that 36mb video on ftp.skydivingmovies.com? I'd be very curious to see it. edit - ftp.skydivingmovies.comWind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #56 September 18, 2003 QuoteAllright, I have been biting my lip on this one but when you start talking about Luigi and John DeVore and attempting to put yourself in their ranks you are inviting some harsh criticism.... Those men are world class canopy pilots and you seem to be a whuffo belly flyer (not that there is anything wrong with belly flying) who wants to make up for a small penis by jumping a ridiculously loaded canopy, flying in poorly, and then boasting about your sorry exploits on the internet by posting photos.... sorry dude, you are lame happy digging Hold on! I don't see anywhere that he has equalled himself to their ranks. Freeflydrew brought up Alaska Jon, and Davelepka mentioned Luigi. Any mentions of either name in Bruno's posts are AFTER this, and simply in response. He is NOT saying he is a pro. However, he is greatly experienced at high wingloadings, so he knows how to control his canopy. He does NOT fly it poorly, as just about anyone on our DZ could tell you, and he is NOT boasting. I see nowhere in his posts that could be considered "boasting". There's a difference between arrogance and pride...check out some of the OTHER posts in this thread to reference arrogance. As for a "whuffo belly flier", WTF? Is there such a thing? I just graduated AFF, would this refer to me? On a more personal (less serious but certainly true) note... If you've ever seen Bruno up close, he has NOTHING to make up for in the penis department!!! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ranchhand28 0 #57 September 18, 2003 TOO MUCH 411!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflydrew 0 #58 September 18, 2003 Quote That sounds like a personal attack, man. Watch it. After rereading the discussion from the beginning, I don't think that Tree's comment is that different from some of the comments that Steel has also made... only Steel's weren't directed at one single person in particular... instead it's "feeding the trolls" or "the person who wrote that". I like reading what Tree has to say... it sheds light on things like body position, and apparent jump techniques that are being discussed. At the same time, it's interesting to read steel's point of view on why he likes to fly the 55 and why he thinks he has optimized his technique to his liking... Most of us haven't seen too many people flying this small of a canopy, and there are techniques that we expect to see that we don't, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out... I don't think that Tree, Steel, or anyone for that matter has stepped out of line in this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflydrew 0 #59 September 18, 2003 QuoteI just graduated AFF, would this refer to me? Maybe this is why you don't agree with the criticisms that some of the more experienced canopy pilots are making about the swoopless swoop pics posted??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites txblondie 0 #60 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuote That sounds like a personal attack, man. Watch it. I don't think that Tree, Steel, or anyone for that matter has stepped out of line in this thread. Understood...I was just stating that it looked like it was heading in a BAD direction... And I see your point of view; I just think that some of the comments here have been poorly expressed and APPEAR to be more personal than necessary (not necessarily in reference to you). ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites txblondie 0 #61 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteI just graduated AFF, would this refer to me? Maybe this is why you don't agree with the criticisms that some of the more experienced canopy pilots are making about the swoopless swoop pics posted??? I'm not saying that I agree or disagree; all I'm saying is that, until they've felt what it's like to fly that high of a wingloading, they don't know anymore about what Bruno's doing than I do. I know what I've heard from him, as well as from dozens of other people who have made their own conjectures, much like the more experienced people in this debate have done. They can express opinions and form theories, but until they have done it themselves, they don't really know what constitutes a "good landing" on that canopy. Edit to add: I'm not saying that I think I know more than anyone here, and I'm not doubting the experts' knowledge of swooping and canopy control, but I do feel like it's wrong to make such harsh judgments until they've had more direct experience with what they are judging. ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites twnsnd 1 #62 September 18, 2003 Thanks for putting yourself out there bro. I haven't been this entertained by a thread in a long time. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #63 September 18, 2003 There is a reason that No one else is routinely jumping canopies above a 4:1 loading. There is no return for them and the danger level increases over the reward for them it seems. No one else has jumped my canopy in the conditions I jump so no one can critize my landings Going through the 10 foot blades and still scoring a 10 cm on the accuracy disc as I went over it puts me out of control on my canopy Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Blahr 0 #64 September 18, 2003 I can post pics of me swooping around in my basement while making swooshing noises. I can post pics of me NOT swooping my Sabre2 210. Just the IDEA of a WL over 4 gives me the willies! If you can land that postage stamp and walk away, more power to ya man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites txblondie 0 #65 September 18, 2003 If you can land that postage stamp and walk away, more power to ya man! That's a new one, I like that. I've heard towel, handkerchief, small jet...but that one's good! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #58 September 18, 2003 Quote That sounds like a personal attack, man. Watch it. After rereading the discussion from the beginning, I don't think that Tree's comment is that different from some of the comments that Steel has also made... only Steel's weren't directed at one single person in particular... instead it's "feeding the trolls" or "the person who wrote that". I like reading what Tree has to say... it sheds light on things like body position, and apparent jump techniques that are being discussed. At the same time, it's interesting to read steel's point of view on why he likes to fly the 55 and why he thinks he has optimized his technique to his liking... Most of us haven't seen too many people flying this small of a canopy, and there are techniques that we expect to see that we don't, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out... I don't think that Tree, Steel, or anyone for that matter has stepped out of line in this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #59 September 18, 2003 QuoteI just graduated AFF, would this refer to me? Maybe this is why you don't agree with the criticisms that some of the more experienced canopy pilots are making about the swoopless swoop pics posted??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #60 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuote That sounds like a personal attack, man. Watch it. I don't think that Tree, Steel, or anyone for that matter has stepped out of line in this thread. Understood...I was just stating that it looked like it was heading in a BAD direction... And I see your point of view; I just think that some of the comments here have been poorly expressed and APPEAR to be more personal than necessary (not necessarily in reference to you). ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #61 September 18, 2003 QuoteQuoteI just graduated AFF, would this refer to me? Maybe this is why you don't agree with the criticisms that some of the more experienced canopy pilots are making about the swoopless swoop pics posted??? I'm not saying that I agree or disagree; all I'm saying is that, until they've felt what it's like to fly that high of a wingloading, they don't know anymore about what Bruno's doing than I do. I know what I've heard from him, as well as from dozens of other people who have made their own conjectures, much like the more experienced people in this debate have done. They can express opinions and form theories, but until they have done it themselves, they don't really know what constitutes a "good landing" on that canopy. Edit to add: I'm not saying that I think I know more than anyone here, and I'm not doubting the experts' knowledge of swooping and canopy control, but I do feel like it's wrong to make such harsh judgments until they've had more direct experience with what they are judging. ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twnsnd 1 #62 September 18, 2003 Thanks for putting yourself out there bro. I haven't been this entertained by a thread in a long time. -We are the Swoophaters. We have travelled back in time to hate on your swoops.- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #63 September 18, 2003 There is a reason that No one else is routinely jumping canopies above a 4:1 loading. There is no return for them and the danger level increases over the reward for them it seems. No one else has jumped my canopy in the conditions I jump so no one can critize my landings Going through the 10 foot blades and still scoring a 10 cm on the accuracy disc as I went over it puts me out of control on my canopy Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #64 September 18, 2003 I can post pics of me swooping around in my basement while making swooshing noises. I can post pics of me NOT swooping my Sabre2 210. Just the IDEA of a WL over 4 gives me the willies! If you can land that postage stamp and walk away, more power to ya man! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #65 September 18, 2003 If you can land that postage stamp and walk away, more power to ya man! That's a new one, I like that. I've heard towel, handkerchief, small jet...but that one's good! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blahr 0 #66 September 18, 2003 how about a "hit of blotter"? That would be sub-50 sq ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #67 September 18, 2003 QuoteThey can express opinions and form theories, but until they have done it themselves, they don't really know what constitutes a "good landing" on that canopy. I completely disagree with you... Often people think that what they're doing is phat, or perfect, or super-duper and everyone who sees it is like "what the hell are they thinking" or "if only they could see themselves swoop"... People that are into swooping, watch swoopers, watch video, slow-mo the transfer from front to rear risers, ask lots of questions, listen more than they speak, etc, etc, etc... You don't have to fly that wing loading to know what constitutes a good swoop... You have to be educated in high performance landings, be aware of the smaller details of one's technique, be humble enough to realize where flaws exist, and man or woman enough to admit them. You do not have to fly it to recognize what a good landing is... it's obvious if you know what you're looking for. -drew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #68 September 18, 2003 >if you are dumb enough to post pics of a non existent swoop . . . His original post said nothing about a swoop. > Drew gave you an excellent suggestion: Canopy Coaching. >Given an appropriately loaded canopy and several hundred >supervised landings, you may be able to swoop.....one day. If someone simply wants to land a very heavily loaded canopy, and can do so without killing himself, why not? Not everyone has to jump a small (or large) canopy, or swoop well, or land with a certain form. Canopy coaching certainly will improve your odds of landing a given canopy well, but not everyone's goal is to get a really long swoop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YM4 0 #69 September 18, 2003 Aaaaait...... This is by far the funniest forum ive been! Bruno, Do you know what swooping is? I wish I had my first pic my dad took back in 1992 of my first jump. I think my wing loading was in the negatives. I had a manta 288 and I must have been like 150lbs out of the door, but eaven like that Ive would have swoop more than you on your "Gistro"55 By the way, Hello Ms.Freeffly bella, wassup, will we see you guys in Feb. say hi to your man. Common Rhino an Eames, Guys... are too deep on your brakes! JaJa! Just kidding. Those are niiiice pics. Steel, Every thing you read in this forum is cause we think you you are to heavy in your canopy and you can get hurt. I doesnt matter what discipline we practice, we are all skydiver and we love our brothers and our sport. we dont want you to get hurt. No that everyone is talking about videos, ho the hell can i post a video so that Mr. Steel can see what a swoop looks like. Blues.....YM4 OK GOT IT! HERE IS THE VID."It's not the size of the dog in the fight, It's the size of the fight in the dog!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflydrew 0 #70 September 18, 2003 Quote Drew gave you an excellent suggestion: Canopy Coaching. Given an appropriately loaded canopy and several hundred supervised landings, you may be able to swoop.....one day. I never suggested those things... "YM4 did... I added to it (just so I'm not misinterpreted in this discussion)... And I would imagine that the arguement developed because the word Swoop was thrown around in a landing that didn't really look like a swoop... maybe not in the first post, but certainly soon after! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YM4 0 #71 September 18, 2003 Thanks Drew, I know you would have suggested that it anyways."It's not the size of the dog in the fight, It's the size of the fight in the dog!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanrockon 0 #72 September 18, 2003 This is my kodak moment. In this photo I'm flying a Vengeance 97 loaded at 1.7 and I can swoop the heck out of it. I still have no picture of my new baby ... a Velocity 79. But that will come later Bruno, dude, get a bigger canopy. You are kind of deep in those brakes in all of the pictures you have posted. That is just a safe reminder in humble judgement. Ivan "Rock On" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #73 September 18, 2003 >With gusts I have gone up to 38. Jumping in high winds is a bad idea; turbulence accompanies high winds. Jumping in high winds with a canopy that can kill you if it even twitches hard is an even worse idea, in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TequilaGirl 0 #74 September 18, 2003 You must be Bruno's girlfriend..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jussi 0 #75 September 18, 2003 This is my Kodak (actually sony) moment, Xaos 21, 93sqft loaded around 2.2-2.3...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
