How do you fly that fast!!!

[lazerq3 0]

So I tried my first front riser swoop the other weekend... Ok so I started the turn a little low.....but I knew that so I was ready to anticipate it and still came out of the carve in time and set up for a really good surf but one thing I didnt anticipate was the speed at which the canopy flies!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!!! as soon as I came out of the turn I felt really good that I didnt burn it in but then I couldnt handle the speed !!!! Long story short I surfed about 30ft and then CRASH!!! four flips off the ground later I was thinking what the hell was I thinking.........
So how do fly a canopy in that fast...I mean are the inputs lighter at those speeds or what .....I think I gave too much to the right to compensate and that caused me to go sideways and crash....but how much input is needed when surfing to keep the canopy straight and level!???
jason

[freeflyguy 0]

Uh? You need enough input to keep it straight and level.
He he. When I first started flying a plane, I had to think about every movement I made with my hands and feet, to land it. Consequently, by the time I thought about what I had to do, it was time to do something else. I will never forget my instructor calmly and very quickly saying "I got it, I
GOT IT".
The point of all that, is to land a plane, or land a fast canopy, if you have to think too much about what you are doing, it may be a little late. So practice and makeing it second nature is the only way to consistantly do it right.
Congrats on being able to ask what it was you did wrong. Be careful, but keep learning.
j

[Remster 24]

Jason,
withouty seeing what happened, it'll be hard for any or us to tell you what caused your crash, but my bet will be that you probably tried to set you feet down too early. You will mneed to bleed off more speed before stepping down, and the way to do that is to continue your flare. Bu tthen again, ask someone who saw you!
Remster
Muff 914

[bhale 0]

Looking at your profile, with the number of jumps you have, I would not recommend doing riser turns for final, yet.
Learn canopy flight first. If you are looking for additional speed, at this stage of your swooping career, come in straight, but use double front risers for some speed. This will help you avoid misjudging the altitiude in which to start a riser turn.
Bottom line, don't be in a hurry to hurt yourself.
Be safe, have fun.

[jdhill 0]

I agree, too early to be doing FR turns to final. Starting w/double fronts, then progressing slowly is the safest way to start learning HP landings (if that is what you want to do).
As for the speed thing, control inputs (all of them, toggles, harness, etc) have to be very smooth and controled... additionally, many people who are learning to swoop put their feet down way too early... canopy is still flying, feet are trying to keep up, pilot stops contoling the canopy, you are on your face...
Be safe, take it slow, seek compotent instruction, don't become a statistic.
Josh
http://www.aerialfusion.com

[Kirils 1]

Congrats! Swooping is fun when done properly. My guess is you stepped down too early. Moderate the dive until you feel comfortable with the speed. You aren't really going any faster across the ground than in the sky. Fly the canopy across the ground. When you want to put your feet down, say "O shit!"
3 times before you step down. The canopy will fly a lot farther than you realize! Good Luck!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[freeflir29 0]

Be Careful!!!! I did my first 180 Hook at about 75-85 jumps. Probably should have killed myself hooking over tarmac and swooping past an airplane. God was smiling on me that day..."Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[rhino 0]

What kind of canopy are you jumping? Loading?
Blue Skies .....

[flyhi 24]

Quote

I didnt anticipate was the speed at which the canopy flies!!!!!!

Cool, huh? That, my friend, is skydiving's answer to heroin. Eventually you will crave it.
But not yet. Way too early. Monkey Chuck had a good post on here a while ago in which he said he never tried to run out a landing. Always slid it out. And if you don't have the skills to time the turn, the bump, the flare, gauge the speed and put down a toe to start the slide, you probably shouldn't be doing them yet. It's probably more of an art than a science, too. Got to feel each one. They're all different.
Work on the front risers and progress from there. Never been to one, but wish I had attended a canopy control school. Learning on your own is very expensive, in many ways.
flyhi

[rhino 0]

I still want to know what he is jumping out of curiosity??
Front risers down low might not be a good idea? I was jumping a Triathlon150 at 1.2 and should not have been trying to swoop it..
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[jhus 0]

He's jumping a Hornet 150
jhus..

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"He's jumping a Hornet 150"
Any idea what its loaded at, approximately ?
Cya
D

[PhreeZone 15]

Not that heavy... I seem to remember 1.1 or 1.2 being mentioned at the ordering of it.
A double straight approach is better to learn the speed with then progress to 45's then to 90's.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[Spy38W 0]

Quote

I was jumping a Triathlon150 at 1.2 and should not have been trying to swoop it..

Why's that, because of your experience at the time, or something about the canopy+swooping?
--
Give them a sip of the darkside, and they just thirst for more.

[PhreeZone 15]

I do semi-high speed landings on my Cobalt 150 at a 1.2 loading, did one last week on a Tri 160. They can be done, just a bit slower then a tiny canopy. But the skills needed to land thepocket rocket at Mach 2 can be started on a larger canopy, just refined on a medium canopy then showcased on the pocket rocket.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[prost 0]

Tri-s do have a short recovery arc. On a 160 I am ar about 1.5 to 1. I used to borrow one for back to back loads. On a 180 degree approach I started at about 150 ft. Looks scary but the thing just doesn't dive much.
William

[prost 0]

One of the 160's I borrowed was a friend of mine who wheighs about 15 to 20 lbs less than me. He jumped it for over 100 jumps and he had to start his turns so low that if yu had never seen him before it would scare the crap out of you.
William

[rhino 0]

It is all about the recover arc of the canopy.. The Triathlon150 was maybe 100 feet.. The crossfire109 I am jumping on the MOD list is 350+ feet.. The crossfire2 97 I am getting should be 600+ feet.. Tons more room to judge distance and allot more performance from the canopy loading it at 1.8. I can turn the corner REALLY quick at 100 feet.. Under the Tri at 50 feet it's OH SHIT!!!
Did that help??
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[rhino 0]

I like hooks suggestion on learning to swoop. Or the best range when you are ready to learn.. I think he said an elliptical canopy in the 1.4 - 1.6 range?
That way you have size over your head plus the forgiveness of a longer recover arc.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[RichM 0]

I agree, but I would add to the above that if the speed difference was that much then you went for a too radical swoop too early. There are many steps between straight in flare, and a 180 degree snap toggle turn with outrageously fast landing speed. You should get each one right before progressing or you will get hurt. Find yourself a canopy skills coach.

[Spy38W 0]

Quote

Did that help??

Yes, immensely, thanks for the info.
It took a couple of readings and some mental visualization, but I think I've got it. Now I've just got to ponder what to do.
--
Give them a sip of the darkside, and they just thirst for more.

[rhino 0]

I do 90-120 degree carves.. No snap hooking.. The long recovery arc helps tremendously.
Blue Skies .....

[PhreeZone 15]

Size? At a 1.4-1.6 thats a small canopy that not going to be forgiving of learning mistakes. Talk to Rickster Powell, one of PD's pilots on his canopy progression. Talk to people that have been around longer then the sub 120 canopies were made. These people learned on larger canopies just fine. I've seen video of Jack Jefferies doing his "circle of death" with a large Sabre. It takes more skill to fly a larger canopy to these extremes then it does to strap your self to a small elliptical canopy that when things goes good flies its self almost, but when one thing is bad... there goes your whole summer in a cast or worse. I can and do out swoop people at my DZ that are loading thier canopies a lot higher then me because I take the time to refine points on my larger canopy instead of having the canopy fly me and play catch up the entire time.
An effecient pilot does not need to go smaller to swoop far, just reuse their potential energery better in a swoop then the inefficient pilots.
And 600+ feet as a recovery Arc for a 90-120 degree turn? I'd hate to see the thing in the hand of some one that does a 270. That would require a start at about 1800 feet to get that far around.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[lazerq3 0]

Thankyou very much for all the good advice.........and yes I do fly a hornet 150, loaded 1.19 to 1...(ok 1.2 if I eat a good breakfastjason

[rhino 0]

Phree, The 600 feet I mentioned was in a snap with double fronts like hook does it.. I don't do that.. But believe me a longer recovery arc is more forgiving. I don't doubt that you can outswoop others I got pretty good on my Triathlon150 it just wasn't made for it. And when people like hook are calling me a dumb ass for learning on the wrong canopy I tend to listen. What they were saying made sense anyways so I listened and progressed. No matter what you swoop be carefull!! :)
Rhino
Blue Skies .....