Deciding "This Canopy is Not For Me"

[Jumperpaula 0]

How many jumps would you put on one canopy before you decided that you are not satisfied with the performance for your needs?
Fly Your Slot !

[quade 3]

I think it would depend on the conditions available and what you were interested in.
I know that if possible I'd want to jump it in no-wind conditions as well as maybe a little turbulence. But that's just me. I'd want to jump it enough so that I could tell if I was going to get consistant, soft and on-heading openings the way I normally pack. I'd also throw it at a packer I trust and see what kind of openings that gives me.
I think this could be done over maybe 6 to 8 jumps, but again, that's just me. I haven't even looked at another canopy model or size since I settled on my Spectre a few years ago.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[skycat 0]

For me it takes about 2 jumps to get a feel for a canopy, and another 3 or 4 to decide if I really don't like it. Now to decide if it is what I want....hmmmm....I'd say 10 to 15 jumps in various conditions from no wind to high winds, maybe some turbulance thrown in for handling.
There are lots of different kinds of canopies out there, so if you really don't like the one you have and have the ability to demo different things I'd say do it. I know you are a conservative pilot, so might want to try a sabre II, or if you want to stay elliptical you might want to try the cobalt, I have a feeling though you wouldn't like the way the crossfire flares.

[rhino 0]

I put 2 jumps on my new canopy and have decided I don't want it.
Blue Skies .....

[skybytch 259]

I had about 10 jumps on my Safire when I knew it was a bit more than I wanted. Being the stubborn type, I put 50 more jumps on it trying to get it "figured out" before I finally realized I'm better off under something a little less aggressive.
pull & flare,
lisa

[axe96bam 0]

It really depends on what you don't like about a canopy. If it is too small and too fast, than 1 jump on no wind day can let you make your decision, if it is the flare or the way it flies, or openings, than it would take a few more jumps.
Alex

[cloud9 0]

Hey Paula if its that stiletto, you wouldn't be the first that doesn't like the way they fly. I'm not slamming stiletto's but lots of folks find them to twitchy and find the openings a little wild. I jump with a guy that has several thousand jumps that jumped a Sabre up until last weekend. He didn't like the stiletto and he's a PD man so the sabre it was. He just demoed a sabre 2 and loved it. Thats what he's going to buy. He jumps a 120 as well. One of our camera flyers on the other hand thinks the stiletto is the best canopy ever made. So its a matter of preference. However there are so many great canopies out there don't stay with one your not happy with.

[Kirils 1]

I jumped a Heatwave then purchased a Stiletto. 2 jumps on the thing and I realized it was too twichy for me. It was 150.
I have smaller canopies, but my Stiletto is one of the least desirable to jump. PD quality is tops and their service is the best in the business. I don't understand why their designs aren't better than they are. I kinda look at PD as the "Ford" of the industry.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[skybytch 259]

Quote

I have smaller canopies, but my Stiletto is one of the least desirable to jump.

Gotta remember that the Stiletto was one of the first really high performance canopies - it's been on the market for close to ten years now. Most of us wouldn't jump a container as it was designed ten years ago... the sport and the industry as a whole have come a long way since then. When the Stiletto was introduced it was the shit - nothing else really came close. Today there are more choices in that class of canopy, and many of those choices do the very high performance thing better than the Stiletto...
pull & flare,
lisa

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Gotta wonder then if PD is going to produce a second-gen Stilletto that will give the same (or better performance) but address the feedback from owners? Kind of like the Sabre 2 vs orig Sabre?

[kwmontreal 0]

I jumped a friends Stilletto 150 (wing loading of 1.45) last year. It was really fun up high, but, the landing was way to fast for me. I had about 130 jumps. I jumped my new Saber 170 yesterday for the first time. I know I made the right decision!! Just a "little" difference in flare from my tired old PD 190!!
Jump Safe
Kent

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

I jumped a Heatwave then purchased a Stiletto. 2 jumps on the thing and I realized it was too twichy for me. It was 150.

That's interesting, I found the heatwave to be WAY more twichy then the Stiletto.
I guess that just says how relative these things are...
_Am
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[Kirils 1]

AndyMan:
Good point! There are so many variables with equipment use in our sport, we can never flat out condem anyone's preference for gear. Acceptance, forgivness, tolerance and the persuit of kick ass fun makes our sport the greatest of all!
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[nacmacfeegle 0]

To answer Paula's original q.....
One.....I don't need to hurt myself again, and I don't like getting scared. But that's just me.
If you are getting the max possible from a canopy, then a reasonable downsize will not scare you.
Stay out of that race little sister, there are no winners......I like you too much to bear the thought of pushing you around in a wheelchair.
Cya
D

[amir1967 0]

Which one was it if I may ask
AM67

[airdrew20012001 0]

Quote

I'm not slamming stiletto's but lots of folks find them to twitchy and find the openings a little wild.

I have a stilletto 135 loaded at 1.40 and I don't have a problem with it. The oversteer takes a bit to get used to. The openings I have had on it are as wild as the Alpha 120 and 104 I have jumped. I jumped a crossfire 109 and it searches and twists around for air as well. I'm not sure what people mean by "twitchy". I think it's a pretty mellow canopy if the inputs aren't too wild. The 104 I mentioned turned faster and had more oversteer than the Stilletto.
In answer to the question being posed I knew in three jumps that it was the canopy for me and knew in 1 jump that the safire wasn't. I think it's like anything else, go with your gut. If you have no gut reaction jump it a few more times.
Drewfus McDoofus

[cloud9 0]

This is what I was talking about, this comes from PD's web site.
The Stiletto will be described in comparison to the Sabre of similar size since it is a very popular
high performance canopy that most experienced people have jumped. Both canopies are first
class high performance canopies but with different handling characteristics. Some jumpers will
prefer the handling of the PD-Stiletto, while other highly experienced jumpers will still prefer the
more traditional high performance characteristics of the PD-Sabre.
Some folks love them and some hate them! The folks that don't like them tend to call them twitchy and don't like the openings. Some folks don't think they're twitchy at all and love they way they open.
When your the one jumping it, you make the call!

[Zennie 0]

How many jumps do you have on it now Paula? And do you have no-wind day jumps on it?
You've had it for a while now, so my gut instinct is that if you're still asking this question then it probably isn't for you. Check out a Sabre 2, Safire or Lotus. They'll all be a little more zippy than a Sabre, but not too much.
When I went to the Jedei I could tell right off that it was going to take some getting used to going from a Sabre, but I also knew that I liked it's flying characteristics and felt confident I'd settle into it just fine, which I have.
In fact, did a "goodbye" jump with my newly relined "old" Sabre and hated the flare. Funny how things change.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[Jumperpaula 0]

I would have to check my logbook, but somewhere between 40 and 50 jumps on it.
Which, from what I've read here, is plenty to get a full taste of the charateristics.
I really have enjoyed the canopy, about 2/3rd's of the time. It's that other 1/3rd that still gives me canopy anxiety.
I really enjoy the response and the glide.
I was thinking maybe have someone jump MY canopy. I'm the only one who has jumped it since the repairs.
Thanks for the good advice.
Fly Your Slot !

[AndyMan 7]

I'm with Andrew.
Before I bought the stiletto I jumped the Crossfire, Heatwave, Lotus, and Samurai, all of which are direct competitors. I jumped them all at a 1.5 wingloading.
All have some degree of wacky openings. The best opening was the Lotus, I would characterise as "searching" on opening. It turned maybe 45 degrees off center, back and forth through out the opening. The worst was the Heatwave where I was consistently getting 180 degree off headings.
Openings on the stiletto are fine as long as it's packed reasonably well. I had one packer on the weekend who was practically jumping on it to get it into the bag - consistent nasty off heading openings. When I pack it myself or have a good packer pack it, I'd get 90 degrees at most.
The samurai I couldn't land. I cartwheeled in several times - after a straight in approach I'd just run out of lift and have to run it off, then I'd fall over while running. Not fun.
The landings on the stiletto have been consistently good. The worst landings I've had where when I give too much flare and pop up, only to be settled down gently.
What I don't like is that after doing a carving riser turn riser preasure is too high to go to double fronts. Maybe I need to spend more time in the gym...
Paula, what is it specifically that you don't like?
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[Zennie 0]

Quote

The samurai I couldn't land. I cartwheeled in several times - after a straight in approach I'd just run out of lift and have to run it off, then I'd fall over while running.

My Jedei is the same way, and I had the same issue when I went to it from the Sabre. The airfoils between the Jedei & Samurai are essentially the same.
Since the flare is so much different, it took a while to dial in, but I really like it now. Yes it comes in really hot on straight-in approaches. The trick is to really be disciplined about getting every last bit of flare that you possibly can out of it. You get a nice long surf and it shuts down pretty nice.
I alos like the way it "hunts" for a heading.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[PhreeZone 15]

My 3 jumps on Stilettos are enough you will not find me under another one for a LONG time. Way too short of a control range. I like being able to steer from my sholders to mid chest and the stiletto is at the ear level. I like finishing the flare at the hips and the stiletto is at mid chest... Over all is just a twitchy canopy. Way too narrow of a control window to make me happy.
Goat #2....
Yay.... Our side of the table rocks! DRINK!

[DanG 1]

In my opinion, if your canopy is giving you gear fear, then get another one. It will negatively impact your entire skydive if the back of your mind is dreading deployment and landing.
I personnaly like my Stiletto very much. It took me six jumps to decide to buy it. It only took me two or three on a Safire to decide I never wanted to jump one again. I think 40 jumps on a canopy is plenty to decide one way or the other. I'm sure you can find someone to take it off your hands, since they are still very popular canopies, and have good resale value.
- Dan G

[TequilaGirl 0]

Hey Paula - I am going to be in town this weekend - do you want me to put a jump on it?????

[Jumperpaula 0]

Quote

Paula, what is it specifically that you don't like?

Man, have I put some serious thought into this one in the last 24 hours. Good , good question.
One thing is that the opening that ARE nice, are very very nice. The openings that have been bad have been nasty ugly spinning things. I've had in 40 jumps or so - 3 where the term "spinnetto" has been true to it's name. Chalk one up to my own pack job, the other two were done by packers.
Another thing is the way the canopy gets "squirrly" on landing in stronger winds. I know you have to "fly it to the ground" , but my reasoning in moving to a Stilleto was to be able to jump is winds that were a little more brisque (and the glide, which I love). My landings on high wind days have been a lot more challenging than no wind days, and I don't think they should be.
Last, maybe I was spoiled a little (yeah, me spoiled, imagine that) that I felt sooo confident under my Sabre, and I have never acheived that same confidence in my canopy flying since switching. Maybe Im being a little rough on myself wanting to acheive the same confidence and skill that took me 400 jumps to acheive on the Sabre? Maybe instead of giving up on it, I should work on it some more.
Good question though.
Fly Your Slot !