Chris_K 0 #1 July 11, 2008 How would you deal with a coky jumper? I have to students who think they know everything, one I have already reccomended be ground as he did a hook turn to land, with 36 jumps under his belt. The other one i have hope for but it raises the issue, I have seen everything from the scare tactic to the passive approach (although that one i do not recommend)Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #2 July 11, 2008 QuoteHow would you deal with a cocky jumper? I have to students who think they know everything, one I have already recomended be ground as he did a hook turn to land, with 36 jumps under his belt. Not letting them jump at all comes to mind. They may not be worth the liability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #3 July 11, 2008 Quote I have seen everything from the scare tactic to the passive approach (although that one i do not recommend) If you've seen everything and have formed opinions on what will work and what won't, why are you asking us? For me, it depends on the student. The authoritative approach (threatening to ground them if they don't wise up) can work if there are no other DZ's in the area. Handing them over to a younger, "hipper" instructor has also worked for me. Although generally a fan of doing all scolding in private, I've been pressed to the point of calling out unsafe behavior in front of everyone...that drives them away more often than it works because the ego that is causing their behavior in the first place is sensitive to insult. Still, it's an option that can work for some people. Basically I try to start at the buddy-buddy level (I'm your instructor and I want you to be even better than you already are) and then ramp up from there, adapting my approach to whatever I've learned from the student. And no, you can't save them all. If you press to the point that you break your relationship with them, they're better off with another instructor. They might talk shit about you for a short while, but better that than they be dead. In a few years, if they're still around, they'll understand you had their best interests in mind. Now a coky jumper? I'd ground him till his nose was clean, his pupils normal, and his demeanor typical (for a skydiver). Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmarshall234 13 #4 July 11, 2008 There is always the very direct approach used by a very experienced colleague at Brown Field once: "YOU'VE GOT TWO *&%!!@ JUMPS YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT". Might want to work up to that one though. I think Gila needed a little time off...wonder what ever happened to him....gave me a copy of his skydiving book before he moved on...a very memorable dude. Peace, if you're out there bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #5 July 12, 2008 I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. There are plenty of other people within one-half-mile of me who will tollerate their shitl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #6 July 12, 2008 livendive got it right... you've got to start quietly and in private. Most people really don't realize how dumb some of the stuff they're doing is. Sharing your own dumb-ass cocky moves (and resulting injury or near-disaster) may help; it helps them relate, and we've ALL had our moments. If you can't do it that way, you've got to get creative, and you'll probably need others to help. In the end, he's also right that you can't save them all. I've known many people who never listened to anybody... some figured it out when they got hurt, and some are dead. Others have had better luck, but that could change in an instant. It sucks. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #7 July 12, 2008 Quote I think Gila needed a little time off...wonder what ever happened to him....gave me a copy of his skydiving book before he moved on...a very memorable dude. Peace, if you're out there bro. I remember Gila from Phoenix/Z-Hills in the early 90s. He was a memorable dude. Anybody know of him nowadays?"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SStewart 13 #8 July 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow would you deal with a cocky jumper? I have to students who think they know everything, one I have already recomended be ground as he did a hook turn to land, with 36 jumps under his belt. Not letting them jump at all comes to mind. They may not be worth the liability. I agree with Gary. Hit the road Jack!Onward and Upward! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmarshall234 13 #9 July 12, 2008 James Richey is his given name (according to the book anyway) we all just called him Gila. He remembered that he owed me twenty bucks on his way out the door and kinda looked around then reached in his bag and gave me the book as payment. I thought that was an honorable thing to do and respected him for it. His approach with that cocky student wasn't very elegant, but it sure got the point across. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 July 12, 2008 Bounce Bingo. Ask the regulars at the Ranch.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattaman 0 #11 July 14, 2008 Crazy makers. Don't manipulate them Chris, thats their game and it doesn't work for you, thats why your unhappy. Its really simple. Drop zones are dangerous places where people can kill themselves, others, and bring alot of bad press on the drop zone, and set a horrible example for other jumpers and the public. At the point at which they don't understand this and cannot take feedback to produce a safe environment, they go, plain and simple. Don't get emotional about it, upset, its their choice. They go. They can come back when they are safe and can take feeback and learn. Give em a smile, have a great day, I wish you well at the other drop zone that might permit that behavior, but not this one, have a great day!Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #12 July 14, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow would you deal with a cocky jumper? I have to students who think they know everything, one I have already recomended be ground as he did a hook turn to land, with 36 jumps under his belt. Not letting them jump at all comes to mind. They may not be worth the liability. It appears that among skydivers, fear of grounding (or being cut) is more effective than fear of death or injury.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VTmotoMike08 0 #13 July 14, 2008 36 jumps and still a student? How many does it take to get the first license in Canada? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
punkd 0 #14 July 14, 2008 Quote36 jumps and still a student? How many does it take to get the first license in Canada? 10 Jumps to get a SOLO license, 25 to get an A.. Although for solo most are around 20ish and for the A at least 50. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
horwichg 0 #15 July 14, 2008 Um...I got my solo on Jump ten (done in 9, plus one fun jumps to get the jump number) and my A on jump 25 (done on 23, 2 hop-n-pops for the numbers) However I also know students who are working on their A with 93 jumps...some just don't do what is required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jasonRose 0 #16 July 15, 2008 Seeing how I was/am one of those cocky students I can relate. However I have been pretty fortunate to have students that want to learn and fly safe. Currently my biggest frustration is students that don't listen and go from instructor to instructor trying to get an answer to do unwise/unsafe flying for their skill level. For the cocky students I think building the relationship of trust with them from the start is key. Take them aside and tell them showing off or taking the extra risk might have worked for them for that jump but will eventualy eat their ass. Importantly point out some things they kick ass at and tell them you want to work on the shit that is going to get them hurt or even worst someone else hurt or killed. The line I like to use is "you arn't the only one making a jump, every time you do something unsafe you put every one jumping at risk. So don't be a selfish prick and get someone else hurt!" If that fails I go to my instructor and ask for advice or ask him to help out. Cocky students kick ass, just ask them. Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #17 July 15, 2008 Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. "... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #18 July 15, 2008 Quote Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. If I were a DZO, I'd definitely want a no-bullshit instructor with zero-tolerance for egotistic prick students. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #19 July 16, 2008 Quote Quote Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. If I were a DZO, I'd definitely want a no-bullshit instructor with zero-tolerance for egotistic prick students. Let me know when and where you want me to send my resume.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #20 July 16, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. If I were a DZO, I'd definitely want a no-bullshit instructor with zero-tolerance for egotistic prick students. Let me know when and where you want me to send my resume. Also open the DZ close to my house so i can jump thereNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #21 July 16, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. If I were a DZO, I'd definitely want a no-bullshit instructor with zero-tolerance for egotistic prick students. Let me know when and where you want me to send my resume. Also open the DZ close to my house so i can jump there If I ever win the lottery, I'll let you guys know. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 July 17, 2008 Quote Quote I, as a guy who owns his own AFF/SL/Tandem school on a major DZ, will simply not tollerate a prick student. Hey Chuck, you have any openings? I want to work for you dude. Damn! You got your application in before mine. Damn! I did have one very cocky FJC student. I finally had to call a 15-minute break and privately tell him that unless he went through the entire class and learned what I taught and PROVED he had learned it, class would be ended right then for him and he would not be jumping at this dropzone. He had 10 minutes to think about it. He came back after break actively willing to listen and learn...and continued so all through the AFF course. Unfortunately, his learning stopped there as he's never since cracked a SIM and had his buddy's AFFI daddy sign off on his A-license progression card in it's entirety. I don't jump with him, nor his buddy, and as few times as possible with the buddy's daddy.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #23 July 17, 2008 in an ideal world it would be either my way or the highway. as with every business sometimes monetary reasons get in the straight way and one has to cope with yet another time-wasting asswipe-type-student longer than wanted The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #24 July 17, 2008 Quote Seeing how I was/am one of those cocky students I can relate. Sometimes I exaggerate things. You weren't nearly as bad as some, and you've almost completely made up for it in the last year. I gotta tell you though, your frustration with certain students leaves me giggling like a damned schoolgirl sometimes. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airathanas 0 #25 July 17, 2008 Quote It appears that among skydivers, fear of grounding (or being cut) is more effective than fear of death or injury. Good point- it's sad but true. http://3ringnecklace.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
