mattaman

Your not even close to starting down the path. Its not money, its paper. We've scratched our heads and wondered how the natives traded away their nations for trinkets and beads. We've done it for paper, overeating, and tv. R U ready to leave maya yet Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

We will be having another fatality from an unstable rsl deployment. Hope its not me, your, or someone we care about. Thats hard cause most of us do care about the people, if we didn't we probably wouldn't say much about this. I've seen many times in this sport where I've spoken up softly, only to get quiet by the mass of grandiose resistance, and sure enough, the fatalities started stacking up on something, and I thought for my own conscience, I should just throw it out there cause I hate the regret of not speaking up and then some kid somewhere dies because the industry protects itself, or guards the coffers. Its been an honor hearing all sides and argueing. We'll be sure to do it again after the next fatality from this, then the next one. This responsibility lies with the manufacturers and the drop zone owners. I recommend they move fast on this, but like most, it takes tragedy to create change, and tragedy in the long run sometimes costs more, thats usually what its about. Good luck all Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

No ones hearing, or caring to hear the point. And yes, I'm gonna say it whether people like what I say or not. We've accepted that the people who die from unstable rsl fatalities are acceptable losses. 3 tandems and a host of other people. Now, to speak out against the rsl brings out a ton of backlash in this comminity, problem is, it covers up that these fatalities didn't have to happen, and we need another solution to the unstable rsl problem. I'm not accepting these fatalies as acceptable losses for a device that is outdated. Pointing out the dangers of an rsl in this sport is like kicking a hornets nest, and its time to address this problem. Cause there is no argument that it was acceptable for those people to die, possibly out of no fault of their own other than they trusted someone to help them make a skydive. Not the sport I signed up for, and I'll fight you on this til they kick me off this thread. We need an answer to this. Its time to fix this problem, before the next fatality, and the next one, then the next one..... As a community we're smart enough to solve it, rather than hide it. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

I'll bet the skyhook fatalities is the lowest number. Sorry you think that it was acceptable for the rsl fatalities to die. They must be acceptable losses to you. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

So the students who died from an entanglement by the rsl that would've been prevented by the skyhook are acceptable losses to you? Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

You've missed the point, the unstable rsl has killed people, and will kill again. Its just numbers. Mal main, unstable reserve, entanglement. The second point, I could care less about the manufacture, but I do care about the people, person. Is this ok or do you consider these people who've passed on from this acceptable losses? Are you remotely gonna feel bad when the next 22 year old nerd comes out for the jump of their dreams and gets a double mal sandwich. I think protecting and defending this is a diservice to the sport, not helping it. The sport has turned a bit politically correct on this and I'm tired of the silence. Its time to address fixing the problem of the unstable RSL deployment, especially on tandems and students. The situation I described is not ok. Skydiving is about people, and that means caring about this situation, this person. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

Hypothetical: Drop zone packs a mal in the main for a student, student cuts it away unstable, rsl deploys the reserve while they are tumbling, they get entangled in the reserve, and die. Technically, the person was dead and had no chance to survive on the skydive. I'm not sure a waiver will stand this, I'm not sure it should. Especially when it can be prevented. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

You guys rock, not making trouble here but just want this skeleton out of the closet. And it really is there! What would we say to a tandem I who through the drogue out unstable, tumbling right out the door of the airplane. What an asshole. Well, It can be worse with an rsl, only more subterminal and closer to the ground on an unstable cutaway. Yet, a TI who goes without it is labeled a rebel who puts his needs before his passenger, or her passenger. We used to honor out of the box thinking in this country, and this sport, many great inventions and lives were save by it. The rsl had its time, but that time has past, this needs to be said. I'm off this thread, thanks brothers for not leaving a brother dangling! Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

How about we say damn to the danger of unstable cutaways on tandems and address the issue with skyhooks on tandems to fix this problem. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

My point is that rsl's are old technology that have caused, or been implicated in 3 relatively recent tandem fatalities that probably wouldn't have happened with skyhooks or if the instructor hadn't had an rsl on and deployed the reserve cleanly. Its tough saying this without people getting openly agitated but after a couple more fatalities from this problem we'll be sure to see a push to get skyhooks on all tandems and more discussion about it. rsl's are out of date backup devices. I think we've reached a time in the sport when we need to realize that skyhooks or nothing is probably the best way to go. Some people have thought that a tandem I who goes without an rsl is selfish. I think the opposite is true, get your competency in belly flying tandem stabalization up to par, practice you ep's to a high level of competency, and rsl's start looking a little dangerous. And yes, if you can't pull the emergency handle on a tandem cutaway, get out of tandems cause your not safe. I can't imagine doing tandems and not being capable of this. If your worried about a hard cutaway, make sure to do equipment checks. Sorry if I was confusing earlier. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

I always encrourage tandem instructors who can't pull the reserve handle on their own to have the rsl on. They are safer with it. Having an rsl always risks entanglement, but your right, for you it is safer with it on. And you know this in your gut. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

There have been tandem fatalities cause the RSL or tandem I deployer the reserve while they were unstable, tumbling on the cutaway, period. I've got about 19 tandem cutaways, the first 2 with the RSL connected. I felt the pilot chute/bridle bounce off my legs on the RSL deployments and made the decision that it was safer without it. I recommend we in the sport look at this issue seriously, cause the skyhook can prevent this, as well as instructors trained to not need the rsl. I'm so sorry for the instructors who understand and are dealing with this problem. It also hurts to reflect on the TI's who did their job and got tangled in the reserve deployments and died, they were doing the best they could. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

Crazy makers. Don't manipulate them Chris, thats their game and it doesn't work for you, thats why your unhappy. Its really simple. Drop zones are dangerous places where people can kill themselves, others, and bring alot of bad press on the drop zone, and set a horrible example for other jumpers and the public. At the point at which they don't understand this and cannot take feedback to produce a safe environment, they go, plain and simple. Don't get emotional about it, upset, its their choice. They go. They can come back when they are safe and can take feeback and learn. Give em a smile, have a great day, I wish you well at the other drop zone that might permit that behavior, but not this one, have a great day! Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

Stretch it when it isn't swollen, electrolytes, glucosamine, ibuprofen. Start being very conscious of how much you use your elbow, limit in your ruitine, you can cut it down by having the passenger help on pulling some straps, steering, etc. Make sure to keep the less used muscles in your forarm strong so as to take pressure off the ones your using all the time. Change the way you keep your hands in the toggles a bit and use other muscle groups, tendons, etc. Don't pack it you can get someone else to. Elastic elbow braces. I had the surgery for pitchers elbow about eight years ago,it worked for about five years and then the prob returned, my elbows need constant awareness and maintenance when I'm busy, fortunatly thats not much now days. Good luck! Hydrate Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.

i wonder if you'd change your tune if that extra fatality was your child. Don't worry, I'm sure that tandem instructor has learned that they could loose their ratings, and that its not cool to risk other people to try and look cool, and that if something happens it won't be defensible in court. I'm sure they've grown up and are a bit embarrased. NO worries, I've done stupid stuff too. Be safe with tandy's, they are clueless and scared, no matter how much they cover it up. Those stuck in maya, seek to be seen.