Pammi 0 #1 December 23, 2001 I'm just wondering after reading what happened to the skydiver in Ohio drowning, how many of you actually have water training? How many of your DZ's really make an effort to provide that training? I still don't have mine and have nearly 80 jumps. I don't even know when I'll be able to get it either. It's never concerned me too much in OK, but what if we went somewhere else where it were more of an issue?? Just curious..it seems to be an area of training severely lacking..right under canopy courses. Closing pin jewelry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #2 December 23, 2001 I've almost been jumping for a year and have missed 3 water training courses. Our S&TA kicks ass we've had 2 BIC courses also. I plan on getting my water training ASAP (besides the fact that it could save your life I wanna jump by a beach). JG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #3 December 24, 2001 i was looking for water training here, but no one had it. I missed it at SGC (PhreeZone's DZ). We wanted it so we could do a beach jump in Florida. Oh well. Maybe next year.-------------JumpinDuo.com...news, guestbook, and links. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 December 24, 2001 Perris Valley, California does regular water training sessions in their swimming pool. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #5 December 24, 2001 Hmmm.....I'm not real up to date on the new SIM, but live water training used to be a requirement for the B license. Your question seems to imply that if it is indeed still a requirement, that it may be routinely getting pencil whipped. If you jump at a USPA Group Memeber DZ and you know this is happening, you should bring it to the attention of your regional director.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Watcher 0 #6 December 24, 2001 Skydive Atlanta has live water training at GaTech Pools about every 5-6 months or so, or if there is enough people asking for it. Jonathan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #7 December 24, 2001 Pam, I had live water training at Skydive Dallas. They offer it about twice a year.It was actually very eye-opening and kind of scary, even in a swimming pool. Having all that wet gear on you underwater is disconcerting to say the least.But then we all got drunk poolside and it was all good. Pet me! I'm harmless and cute! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #8 December 25, 2001 I did it off a ten foot tall dock into a lake, last January. Brrr.I don't know if it is true, but I heard it is only a requirement of the D license now. But hearsay. Whether or not you get actual "wet" training. There is no reason why you couldn't get the briefing, then give yourself time to think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #9 December 25, 2001 I offer it about once a year. I try to make it more than water training, though - for some jumpers, this is the last "requirement" where they get classroom-like instruction. I try to spend about 45 minutes on canopy flight, malfunction reviews, jumping at new DZ's, what to expect at boogies, what happens in the "real world" of jumping (some people actually pull low on purpose? yikes!) different types of jumpships, USPA vs non-USPA DZ's, freeflying vs RW hazards, big ways, types of exits, exit separation, spotting etc. You can't cover it all, but I just try to mention the general points in each topic. You'd be amazed at how many things someone with 30 jumps hasn't even thought about yet, things we just take for granted - like you can really stall a Skyvan if you pile in the back, and sometimes pulling too high can be even more dangerous than pulling a bit too low.During the water training part I try to spend as much time talking about how to stay _out_ of the water as what to do if you land in the water. It's at least as important, if not more so. The actual what-to-do part takes about 10 minutes, and the actual jump in the pool takes another 2-3 minutes per person.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ducky 0 #10 December 26, 2001 Wow that sounds a comprehensive course that i'd love to sit in on! Having only 5 jumps (6n7 this weekend!!) I feel there are alot of thing i wanna know more about. Many of my questions will be aswered in the very near future, but I can see where gaps in knowledge will form. ThanksChris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #11 December 26, 2001 QuoteUSPA vs non-USPA DZ'sWhat do you talk about for this? (If you don't mind.) http://JumpinDuo.com - come see the fun!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #12 December 26, 2001 Quote During the water training part I try to spend as much time talking about how to stay _out_ of the water as what to do if you land in the water. It's at least as important, if not more so. The actual what-to-do part takes about 10 minutes, and the actual jump in the pool takes another 2-3 minutes per person. I like the idea of the training that you give in addition to the water training itself, but I feel that 2-3 minutes per person in the water is insufficient. Find somebody local that is - or was previously - a Coast Guard or Navy rescue swimmer. In the absence of that, find a SCUBA shop and somebody that is a Rescue Diver. Learn some basic water rescue techniques and swims and teach those. These are more for an instance where the person you're teaching becomes a rescuer from the shore rather than a victim - or in a case such as the two people that landed in the lake together.For some reason, I think I remember you saying you SCUBA dive....if so, have you gotten your Rescue Diver(or DM in certain certifying organizations) card? It's definitely a good investment.Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #13 December 27, 2001 Yes, it is still a requirement to get the B license. Skydive Dallas won't offer it again until Spring, so I will probably just keep my A lic. until then and get my C or D, depending on how many jumps I have then. SisI feel so alive,for the very first time-and I think I can fly! - P.O.D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #14 December 27, 2001 Hey, Do ya think I can CLEP out of water training since I've already been through the glorious, strapped-to-a-chair-then-inverted-underwater helo escape stuff I did in the Marine Corps? There's no way any training that includes throwing a wet piece of nylon over your head can top jumping into a pool from 5 or 10 meters with a full load of gear/rifle and treading water for an hour or so until they tell you that you can get out.I bet I could turn my Bev's suit into a great flotation device, now that I think of it. Then again, I wonder how fast a ZP canopy pisses air when it's wet--you could turn it into a raft for god's sake.peacemikefly nylon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pammi 0 #15 December 29, 2001 QuoteYour question seems to imply that if it is indeed still a requirement, that it may be routinely getting pencil whipped.Oh no, not implying that. Well, I should say that if it's happening, I personally am not aware of it. What I'm really meaning is that it's hard to find in a lot of areas. This one for instance. I've only had one opportunity to do water training, I signed up, was there, and things didn't work out. I'll never get my B at this rate, and heaven forbid I go to a DZ with actual water around I might land in. I just think that it's not offered as often as it maybe should be or taken as seriously as it could be. I guess I'll probably head to Dallas to get it next spring...otherwise I'll have 500 jumps and an A license :)Closing pin jewelry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #16 December 29, 2001 "getting pencil whipped"I wish....I had very comprehensive water training far above and beyond what most civilians get and I still couldn't get anyone to sign it off in my log book!!! So...I finally broke down and hauled my ass to the Georgia Tech Pool to get it over with. Now it's done....never again......"I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #17 December 29, 2001 even though you can get your C and D license with out actualy getting your B license you still must meet the requirments of the lower licenses i.e...water training to get your C or D....and pass all the tests too!!!!MarcRes Firma Mitescere Nescite Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #18 December 31, 2001 I did mine a couple of years ago, with an actual water jump into Alum Creek Lake. We used old military rounds to make it even more interesting. Still, I don't think water training (or lack of it) was the issue in Jason's case. With water that cold, and with all of the clothing he had on (getting water logged), he just didn't have that much time, and his time ran out. Bruce had on a wetsuit. That gave him buoyancy and protection from the chilling water long enough for the rescue to take place. I do think that other areas of training or review such as maintaining positional awareness and planning off-airport landings would be advisable for anyone. Almost every DZ has its own set of potential hazards, and you can go through different scenarios in your head (just like going through your emergency procedures) almost any time.CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #19 December 31, 2001 (getting water logged)Have you ever tried to swim with clothes on. I had to do a test a couple times where I had to swim 50 meters with boots, full military uniform, weapon, and some equipment. It wasn't quite as easy to do as I thought. Swimming with clothes on is an exercise in patience. Try to hard and you'll wear yourself out without making it 20 ft. Put on a jumpsuit when you do your water training. Maybe even some old shoes too. It's an eye opener. "I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDog 0 #20 December 31, 2001 Treading water with full gear on......we did that in the Marines in basic training. If you're not expecting it, the initial sensation is one that can lead to shock and panic. Best to experience it first hand under controlled conditions.CorporateLawyerDave aka BadDog Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #21 January 1, 2002 Clay...your right on there....relaxation and "not trying too hard" is the key to effective swimming in full clothes...marcI have no fear of falling but I hate hitting the ground -The Badlees Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #22 January 1, 2002 "not trying too hard" which could be pretty tough if you are a low time jumper that is already freaked out about landing in water in the first place....."I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #23 January 1, 2002 Quote Now it's done....never again...... Well, let's hope you never have to use that skill......this past weekend, on Sat, 15 people went into the water or onto a small island(actually just a small dry spot) in the Indian River just east of Sebastian.. There were 2 CReW groups, a 7 way and a 9 way(8+ video), and only ONE made it back to dry land.. Pay attention to where you are!Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #24 January 2, 2002 "15 people went into the water or onto a small island"Famous last words......"But the green light was on....""I got some beers....Let's Drink em!!!"Clay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freaksister 0 #25 January 4, 2002 Quoteeven though you can get your C and D license with out actualy getting your B license you still must meet the requirments of the lower licenses i.e...water training to get your C or D....and pass all the tests too!!!!MarcYou are exactly right. SisI feel so alive,for the very first time-and I think I can fly! - P.O.D. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
