Tandem Instructor Poll: Instructor Helmets

[jdfreefly 1]

Slotperfect described what this exit was supposed to be like, kind of...actually, it would be a 180 back loop into the relative wind. If you think about it, a 270 would put you in a stand relative to the wind since you are still on the hill.

I was doing this exit because I thought it was a good way to clear the door and initiate the 180 back loop. Obviously itwasn't.

I learned the best way to exit from that plane was with a 180 back loop. I was never instructed to use the floater bar to do it. I had seen others do it, and I had successfully done it myself a couple times.

We don't have a policy on this type of exit that I am aware of. However, I have not seen anyone else attempt this type of exit since. It is much easier and safer to get in the door and launch forward diving out. If you rotate forward enough, you can pull off a straight forward dive. If not, you can back loop to the relative wind.

I have tried to start a thread where TMs post their horror stories. Unfortunately, the thread did not last. It might be because people are hesitant to post their horror sotorry because usually, it includes one or more mistakes that they made.

My view on it is that we are all human, being a tandem master is not a natural thing, and we are bound to make mistakes. Hopefully we have enough training that we can get out of the bad situations we put ourselves in. I am happy to share my mistakes because that way, someone else might not have to learn that lesson the hard way.

My lessons:

Bad Points:
Clear the door...Also, be on your toes when you are in the door. The exit on a tandem is probably the most dangerous part of the skydive. The next 10 seconds decide what the next minute, or more, of your life is going to be like.

Good Points:
Get obssesive about touching all your handles and touching them in order. If I hadn't developed this habbit, I might not have been able to find the drogue under duress. I would say on the average tandem, I go through a handles touch about 8-10 times from the time I put on the rig to the time I exit the plane. Once the drogue is out, I touch the remaining handles at least 2 times in freefall.

Have a plan. In tandem jumping, shit goes real bad real fast, and when it does, you better have a plan.

Keep the student calm. Once under canopy I did an excellent job of taking care of the student. Obviously I am my first concern in this instance, if I can't land us, it will be ugly. But once I was sure I was ok, I took care of her. She didn't get freaked out untill we got down and everyone else made a big deal out of it. Even when she saw my arm was streaked with blood from my had to my elbow.

And finally, when Glenn Bangs says, "Damn Daless! You got knocked out by a girl!" You should make sure to respond so that all can hear, "Well, I was going to whack her head into the door, but then I figured, hey, she's not the fucking president."

For those who don't know, Glenn was on ex-president Bush's skydive in the very airplane that this incident occurred in. On exit, Mr. Bush whacked his head against the door.

Methane Freefly - got stink?

[skytribe 16]

Quote

Slotperfect described what this exit was supposed to be like, kind of...actually, it would be a 180 back loop into the relative wind. If you think about it, a 270 would put you in a stand relative to the wind since you are still on the hill.

I was doing this exit because I thought it was a good way to clear the door and initiate the 180 back loop. Obviously itwasn't.

I learned the best way to exit from that plane was with a 180 back loop. I was never instructed to use the floater bar to do it. I had seen others do it, and I had successfully done it myself a couple times.

We don't have a policy on this type of exit that I am aware of. However, I have not seen anyone else attempt this type of exit since. It is much easier and safer to get in the door and launch forward diving out. If you rotate forward enough, you can pull off a straight forward dive. If not, you can back loop to the relative wind.

I have tried to start a thread where TMs post their horror stories. Unfortunately, the thread did not last. It might be because people are hesitant to post their horror sotorry because usually, it includes one or more mistakes that they made.

My view on it is that we are all human, being a tandem master is not a natural thing, and we are bound to make mistakes. Hopefully we have enough training that we can get out of the bad situations we put ourselves in. I am happy to share my mistakes because that way, someone else might not have to learn that lesson the hard way.

My lessons:

Bad Points:
Clear the door...Also, be on your toes when you are in the door. The exit on a tandem is probably the most dangerous part of the skydive. The next 10 seconds decide what the next minute, or more, of your life is going to be like.

Good Points:
Get obssesive about touching all your handles and touching them in order. If I hadn't developed this habbit, I might not have been able to find the drogue under duress. I would say on the average tandem, I go through a handles touch about 8-10 times from the time I put on the rig to the time I exit the plane. Once the drogue is out, I touch the remaining handles at least 2 times in freefall.

Have a plan. In tandem jumping, shit goes real bad real fast, and when it does, you better have a plan.

Keep the student calm. Once under canopy I did an excellent job of taking care of the student. Obviously I am my first concern in this instance, if I can't land us, it will be ugly. But once I was sure I was ok, I took care of her. She didn't get freaked out untill we got down and everyone else made a big deal out of it. Even when she saw my arm was streaked with blood from my had to my elbow.

And finally, when Glenn Bangs says, "Damn Daless! You got knocked out by a girl!" You should make sure to respond so that all can hear, "Well, I was going to whack her head into the door, but then I figured, hey, she's not the fucking president."

For those who don't know, Glenn was on ex-president Bush's skydive in the very airplane that this incident occurred in. On exit, Mr. Bush whacked his head against the door.

Cannot agree more with Daless.

Tandem involves a lot of responsibility and as most examiners and manufacturers state "Its not just another skydive....."

As far as procedure technique and procedure goes - we learn from mistakes (both ours and others) and expect the unexpected from the students. However much we train them its always a bit of a crap shoot when you leave the aicraft.

Different aircraft have better techniques for exit. The DZ does have a policy of not backing out the otter or caravan aircraft - hanging on the float bar as it exposes the drogue to the wind and risk of premature deployment over the tail. An unecessary risk. However standard poised, seating or dive exit are perfectly acceptable from the otter/caravan and a 270 backloop or dive from skyvan are acceptable - a poised facing in may be used for tandems 2 and 3 as more akin to face into relative wind that they will encounter on later levels. But the actual exit chosen is the discretion of the instructor.

Handles check prior to boarding. Handles check prior to leaving and handles check once out and drogue deployed are all good practice. Things get snagged in aircraft or move when blown about by the wind on exit. The time to go finding a handle and realise its not where you thought it was is not at pull time. If youve got video having yourself doing a handles check and giving thumbs up is good and may help in any litigation to show that you were not negligent. Sticking to a few simple standard procedures helps make sure that things are where they should be.

Assessing the risks and formulating if the risks are acceptable. This is where the helmets issue comes in. Things happen, hats can help. How many tandem instructors have suffering ear injuries as a result of risers deploying. I know there have been documented incidents. How predicable are the conditions - a field in the mid west with not a tree in sight is less prone to turbulence than say a tree lined landing area on a windy day. Adjust where you land according to turbulence - again to minimize chances of getting caught in turbulence.

Jump within you limitations - if you are unhappy with student/conditions etc. say so and dont compromise your safety for the dollars of an DZ operator.

In essence - treat yourself as a professional and act accordingly.

We have this spool - about 18 - 24 inches high that we make our student s jump off - my take - if they can do this unassisted then I don't want to take them up on a jump - as I can't be 100% gauranteed of a smooth landing. I have declined a couple of passengers that other instructors felt ok to do take - and we simply swapped. Again this may be the phyiscal size of students. All instructors are not equal.

It doesn't matter what paperwork the student signs - if anything happens its the instructor that they will come after. And do you want to get dragged into a court case giving opposition easy ammunition to use against you. Litigation is a major fear in the US - students often sign the paperwork without realising the consequences and think its just a fairground ride - not that they have the potential to kill me as well as themselves by not listening and doing what I ask. Stark reality......

[crutch 0]

Quote

Litigation is a major fear in the US - students often sign the paperwork without realising the consequences and think its just a fairground ride - not that they have the potential to kill me as well as themselves by not listening and doing what I ask. Stark reality......

Maybe this thread is getting sidetracked here, but part of me taking people is that they are instructed as to what that waiver actually says. What is basically says (this is summed up pretty much, but is how the judge explained it in the court case I happen to witness) no one guarenteed that the person signing the waiver wouldn't get hurt/killed. There is that chance and if you are unwilling to take that chance, don't sign the paper or pay your money...the bowling alley is down the street.

We have also sidetracked into exits here and geez, the one guy is getting hammered for exitiing the skyvan funny, what's up? Hell, he has even owned up to the fact he made a mistake and will do it different next time...let's let it go and get back to talking about helmets on students/passengers.

blue skies,

art

[tqsmile 0]

I started off using a Bone head helmet and found that I could not get a good look at my canopy after opening as I could not lift my head up enough, helmet was resring on top of the Strong rig.
Changed to a frap,problem solved and i feel safer.
It also takes up less space in the plane and i can take it off under canopy to feel the wind and hear the student when they talk to me.

TQ
I am me and you are you, so deal with it!!!
www.skydivepe.com

[teason 0]

I like frap hats 'cause of the wind noise. 12 yrs of not wearing a helmet has destroyed my hearing! (...well that and 12yrs of being a nightclub DJ)
I wore a frap hat until some whuffo at a satelite school thought it made a better souvener than a piece of safety equipment.Bastard!

Had my head pinched in a line twist last weekend, didn't like it. Frap hat would of protected me from the scrapes.
I don't even want to think what a protec would have done, but I think it would have been harder to get my head out!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[adrenaline_101 0]

YOU GOT IT! THERE DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE A FIRST TIME!

[skydiverton 0]

Wear a frap-hat, because I have to wear "some hat" in germany.

In Holland I just use my goggles as a head protection

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[foreverfree 0]

So far most of us have escaped this requirement because it was only a recommendation and not absolutely mandatory.

What are we really waiting for ?


Another Incident/Accident?

BORN FREE
LIVING FREE
FOREVER FREE
FALLING FREE

[birddog 0]

i can see no benifit in wearing a hard hat when doing tandems, if any thing they are more dangerous to the passenger than any thing

Deal with it

[riggerrob 558]

Gasp!
Shock!
Horror!
Is the world coming to an end?

Bobby MaGee (an old-school TI from Pitt Meadows) traded his frap hat for an Invertigo free fly helmet - while doing a tandem - last weekend.
He was pleasantly surprised about how much quieter it was in the airplane.
Bob was one of the last frap hat hold-outs in Pitt Meadows. The rest of us converted years ago, after a tandem riser almost tore off Steve's ear!

Mind you, the cheapskate was too frugal to BUY that Invertigo, he snagged it out of the lost-and-found bin. We all know which sloppy free flyer left it laying around for the last month, so we have a nano-second's worth of sympathy for the slob!
Hah!
Hah!

[flipper 0]

frap hat for the student and and a hard shell freefly helmet for me from day one

flipper

[brookowen 0]

I have done about 1500 Tandems (from and Otter) and currently elect to wear a frap hat. I tried a Mindwarp at first and found that it was one more object that I had to juggle around in the plane and keep track of during hook up.
Then I went without head protection against the sound advice I had been given by more experienced coworkers...sure enough upon deployment on more than one occaision risers have snipped my ears, kind of a drag to take someone for the thrill of thier life and bleed all over under canopy. I also like the frap hat b/c I can clip it on the students chest strap for the climb and un-clip the chin strap under canopy to hear better. Frap hat all the way for me.

Brook

[DaGimp 0]

Quote

Once again, I'm the newbie with only about 50 tandem jumps...

I wear my Bonehead Mindwarp

hell i think Dave just answered for me....few tandems....less then 100...BH mindwarp.

"Professor of Pimpology"~~~Bolas

[justaman 0]

I used to wear a frap hat loved the thing but, dragging my heels I changed to a bone head. This was after a few nasty stories and some videos. I kinda think that the computer controlling ride ( hope its controlling the ride) needs all the protection it can get. If I'am not throwing the droge. Well I think we get the picture.

Do or do not

[rustywardlow 0]

I always wear a hard helmet for myself and put a frap hat on my student. I have hit my head too many times in all kinds of aircraft ceilings, bars in the Otter or Caravan, doors on Cessna's and of course riser slap. The main reason I like a frap hat on my student is that they have a hard head and I've got a soft chin.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

I always wear a hard helmet for myself and put a frap hat on my student. I have hit my head too many times in all kinds of aircraft ceilings, bars in the Otter or Caravan, doors on Cessna's and of course riser slap. The main reason I like a frap hat on my student is that they have a hard head and I've got a soft chin.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For the same reason, I switched to racketball frames for my prescription lenses. Far too many students slammed my head into the door frame, bending the frames of my regular glasses.