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Blevins wrote
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This idea is brilliant, because right now we're dependent on planes doing a fly-over and trying to hit the fire manually. It's hit-or-miss all the way. This is also VERY dangerous for the pilot.



Watch this DC 10 jet air tanker in action. http://youtu.be/JaUDs48h2ns

Dangerous indeed. But very few drops are made directly on flaming areas. The better use of the retardant is to apply it in lines ahead of advancing flames in order to contain the fire.

I spoke at length with air tanker pilots at Sonoma County Airport when there used to be a DZ there. They came over to join us for beers after sundown. They all had hair raising tales to tell.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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mark74

I had a job in the early '80's taking people and NWO flight crews to their hotels and I never met any jerks in the flight crews, they were always laughing, joking, fun people. That's why I have trouble with the Kenny story



Yes, Kenny was a good guy & a kind guy. If he had children U can bet they would have been all over this a long time ago.

So glad to see a positive comment - I am elated.

WON a personal battle in the last few days - nothing to do with Cooper.

I had to challenge a lot of high ranking individuals (not Cooper related) to do the RIGHT thing....May have knocked a few months off of my life in the process - but I did the RIGHT thing in standing up against the what is RIGHT and could have got myself in a LOT of trouble had I been wrong.

Actually expected authorites to knock on my door to serve me or worse...today but.thank GOD my Daddy did a good job teaching me the lay of the land and the geologically processes and how to identify them...I wanted to be an engineer and design dams and protect our waters, but girls did NOT become engineers in my day.

I took a stand against FEMA and the county and was basically told to mind my own business or I was going to get in trouble. Someone had to knock some sense into the authorities and I'll be damned if I was going to stay silent and see a man's home destroyed because of STUPID mistakes and the GREED I have encounter with the authorities...

I held my ground and stayed on the phone most of Friday and today figured the guys with a straight jacket would arrive with orders or I would be served.

Thought I was going to get myself arrested - (then Galen would have had something to write about). I did the right thing and as usual by being verbal and loud and contacting others and raising cane, the right thing was done! Had I stayed silent - the deed would have been done and then covered up...

I knew what was being done was WRONG and gave up after I exhausted every means I had - other than hiring a lawyer and that was NOT feasible because the damage would already have been done.....the situation would have cause irreptuable damage to others.

Today - I saw the the situation being corrected before it was too late and the damage done.

I handled it the only way it could be handled - confrontal and threatening and upfront - not after the fact....and as the situtation unfolded.


BYE ! I am really very tired. Actually I guess it is relief - it is over and done with - unlike Cooper - which seems to be never ending. The guys with the straight jacket might still show up!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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BruceSmith

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"...Yes, Kenny was a good guy & a kind guy...."





Kind of like Duane, eh? Hard to imagine that either one of them could threaten to blow up a plane and kill 43 people.



Oh, I don't know. And if the bomb was a fake (Himmelsbach thinks it was, since most dynamite he says is brown in color, or tan...not red) then the threat was an empty one anyway.

Lots of 'nice guys' have been criminals at one time or another. It's a big list. Danny Trejo, Charles Colson, Greg Mathis, Kweisi Mfume, Georgia Durante, etc.

Some of the nicest people you've ever heard of have done the most infamous crimes imaginable. Being known as a nice guy doesn't auto-delete you from trying to pull off a crime for money. That's probably one of the reasons why the FBI has found it impossible to identify Cooper. It's unlikely he had a criminal record, and for some reason he never fell under enough suspicion by the right people to be identified. I would describe Cooper as a Joe Ordinary kind of guy who liked bourbon and soda, Raleigh cigarettes, knew a certain amount about flight controls and their effect on a passenger jet, was familiar with how NWA did their business, knew someone who worked in the 727 program, or someone who jumped or dropped cargo from 727's in Vietnam. And most importantly...knew how to use a parachute. Those are eight parameters.

Kenny Christiansen fits SEVEN of them. Just saying. :)
Even with all of that, I can't sit here with a straight face and tell you I know for certain that KC was Cooper. I don't. But I figure now that Mr. Geestman's family has been provided with a 53-page report that details every bit of testimony and all available evidence, something is going to break on this one way or another at some point. I also discovered recently that there were more people at the Jones' house for Thanksgiving 1971 than just Mr Jones, (deceased), Helen Jones, (alive) her daughter, (alive, was 14 at time of hijacking) and Mrs. Geestman. And some of THOSE people, the ones not mentioned in Blast...have also seen this document and have a copy of it. I think it's only a matter of time before the truth emerges. Hard to keep that kind of secret in families. Especially when you just print up everything in color and give them copies to take home and study on their own.


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"It's unlikely he had a criminal record"


That's a hell of a first crime. No way to prove it, but I'd bet money he had a criminal past.
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

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ParrotheadVol

"It's unlikely he had a criminal record"


That's a hell of a first crime. No way to prove it, but I'd bet money he had a criminal past.



It's possible, of course. But a criminal past also means you have a record, which means fingerprints, a history, mug shots, prior crimes and MO, known associates, etc. Might make you easier to catch. And Cooper has not been caught.


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RobertMBlevins


Some of the nicest people you've ever heard of have done the most infamous crimes imaginable. Being known as a nice guy doesn't auto-delete you from trying to pull off a crime for money. That's probably one of the reasons why the FBI has found it impossible to identify Cooper. It's unlikely he had a criminal record, and for some reason he never fell under enough suspicion by the right people to be identified. I would describe Cooper as a Joe Ordinary kind of guy who liked bourbon and soda, Raleigh cigarettes, knew a certain amount about flight controls and their effect on a passenger jet, was familiar with how NWA did their business, knew someone who worked in the 727 program, or someone who jumped or dropped cargo from 727's in Vietnam. And most importantly...knew how to use a parachute. Those are eight parameters.

Kenny Christiansen fits SEVEN of them. Just saying. :)



Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses.

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MarkBennett

***
Some of the nicest people you've ever heard of have done the most infamous crimes imaginable. Being known as a nice guy doesn't auto-delete you from trying to pull off a crime for money. That's probably one of the reasons why the FBI has found it impossible to identify Cooper. It's unlikely he had a criminal record, and for some reason he never fell under enough suspicion by the right people to be identified. I would describe Cooper as a Joe Ordinary kind of guy who liked bourbon and soda, Raleigh cigarettes, knew a certain amount about flight controls and their effect on a passenger jet, was familiar with how NWA did their business, knew someone who worked in the 727 program, or someone who jumped or dropped cargo from 727's in Vietnam. And most importantly...knew how to use a parachute. Those are eight parameters.

Kenny Christiansen fits SEVEN of them. Just saying. :)



Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses.

You are right about that. This is why I prefer taking witness testimony (in a non-threatening manner) with notes and recordings, gathering what documentary or photographic evidence you can that relates to a suspect, researching histories, etc. Follow-up interviews are always good, too. It's a bit like a job search. Always ask the interviewee if they have any thoughts on who you should speak to next.

Beats confirmation bias anytime. It is not my fault that some of the people who knew Christiansen best volunteered the things they did in interviews, or that they accused each other of being involved in the hijacking. I simply recorded their answers and tried to verify whether they were telling the truth. The only one who really lied to me in all of this was Bernie Geestman. He lied to everyone he was in contact with regarding his possible involvement in the hijacking. And then...since he was unaware that several witnesses had already placed him with Christiansen the entire week of the hijacking...he tossed Christiansen under the bus on television when they started pressuring him. What would you think?

Sometimes I just tell people this: You had to be there. Look, the bottom line here is that sooner or later the truth is going to come out on the whole thing. Either these two did it, or they didn't. There's no middle ground.
I have no idea which way it will go, but one of Geestman's family members told me recently:

Quote

'We'd rather wait until he (Bernie Geestman) is gone before saying anything...'



I'm busy trying to convince them otherwise, of course. I have another interview coming up soon.


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RobertMBlevins

******
Some of the nicest people you've ever heard of have done the most infamous crimes imaginable. Being known as a nice guy doesn't auto-delete you from trying to pull off a crime for money. That's probably one of the reasons why the FBI has found it impossible to identify Cooper. It's unlikely he had a criminal record, and for some reason he never fell under enough suspicion by the right people to be identified. I would describe Cooper as a Joe Ordinary kind of guy who liked bourbon and soda, Raleigh cigarettes, knew a certain amount about flight controls and their effect on a passenger jet, was familiar with how NWA did their business, knew someone who worked in the 727 program, or someone who jumped or dropped cargo from 727's in Vietnam. And most importantly...knew how to use a parachute. Those are eight parameters.

Kenny Christiansen fits SEVEN of them. Just saying. :)



Confirmation bias, also called myside bias, is the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses.

You are right about that. This is why I prefer taking witness testimony (in a non-threatening manner) with notes and recordings, gathering what documentary or photographic evidence you can that relates to a suspect, researching histories, etc. Follow-up interviews are always good, too. It's a bit like a job search. Always ask the interviewee if they have any thoughts on who you should speak to next.

Beats confirmation bias anytime. It is not my fault that some of the people who knew Christiansen best volunteered the things they did in interviews, or that they accused each other of being involved in the hijacking. I simply recorded their answers and tried to verify whether they were telling the truth. The only one who really lied to me in all of this was Bernie Geestman. He lied to everyone he was in contact with regarding his possible involvement in the hijacking. And then...since he was unaware that several witnesses had already placed him with Christiansen the entire week of the hijacking...he tossed Christiansen under the bus on television when they started pressuring him. What would you think?

Sometimes I just tell people this: You had to be there. Look, the bottom line here is that sooner or later the truth is going to come out on the whole thing. Either these two did it, or they didn't. There's no middle ground.
I have no idea which way it will go, but one of Geestman's family members told me recently:

Quote

'We'd rather wait until he (Bernie Geestman) is gone before saying anything...'



I'm busy trying to convince them otherwise, of course. I have another interview coming up soon.

And then we have:

Confirmation bias

Quote

In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study.

Confirmation bias is a phenomenon wherein decision makers have been shown to actively seek out and assign more weight to evidence that confirms their hypothesis, and ignore or underweigh evidence that could disconfirm their hypothesis.

As such, it can be thought of as a form of selection bias in collecting evidence. http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/confirmation_bias.htm




You may not see it, but we see the bias. Your biases displayed in this forum are apparent.
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

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ParrotheadVol

"It's unlikely he had a criminal record"


That's a hell of a first crime. No way to prove it, but I'd bet money he had a criminal past.



So would I and I will put a bet on it of $100 - if and when Cooper is ID'ed that he did indeed have a criminal record.

Not all of the old prints where transferred to the system for prints when it went into effect - and I believe if Duane's was put on that system - it was later and not in the beginning....

Per the story the family told - Weber only passed thru McNeil and was never a resident. Even one of the FBI agent made this statement.

Did they continuely use those prints on subsequent arrest and convictions?
Has the FBI ever produced prints on Weber made in subsequent arrest?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Something all of you including the FBI is the connection of Weber (or whatever name he was using in WA & OR) has been ignored.

I suggest and tried to obtain the names of all men attached to or part of the Fire Dept in The DALLES, OR.

What will they find - that one of the men with that dept was a relative or friend of the family of Weber. The yrs that are significant are - 1930 to 1949.

I provided the names and possible names of family connection in this thread. I tried myself to get into the museum in 2010, but it was election time and the records had been moved from the fire department along with the old photo to the County court house.

I tried for 2 day to get access, but due to the election was unable to do so...I had other places to go and to retrack...time and money did not allow me to pursue this at that time.

I asked JT to do this - but he never did....claimed he did, but he also made many other claims we all are aware were not substancial.

A major claim about Green Mt was never explored and was denied by JT.
WHY?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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1. This thread was NOT started by Jo, but the first thread that was quickly shut down after a few pages.

Quade started this thread and made certain rules and regulation known.

2. The tie: The clip on tie was very common in the 60 and thru the 70's.
Seems like some one had drawn some conclusions NOT based on fact.

3. The clip on I believe is still available. If someone has PROOF that JC. Penny did not sell clip ons in 1971 - and that they did NOT sell clip ons into the late 80's they need to produce their source and proof.

4. J.C. Penny always catered to the poor and medium class with affordable prices...and in certain professions - a clip on remained a necessity. Such as food workers, waiters, bartendors, insurance salemen - if they worked a debit they needed something to take off and put on easily. I was married to a man who worked in that profession.

5. I also worked a debit myself up until 1995 just a few wks before Duane died...the guys in the field wore clip ons....

6. The name D.B.Cooper was a misnomer. All the FBI did was run Dan Cooper thru the system and they came up with a D.B. Cooper who had a record. He was investigated and that is how D.B. Cooper came to be - it was just a simple matter of investigating what they had.

7. A reporter made the first mistake about D.B. and it stuck!

A lot of to do is being made about something so simple it is ridiculous.

This is all I have to say tonight, but it seems like the rumors will go on till the end of time.

Unsolved Mysteries started discussing Cooper BEFORE this thread was in full throttle...I had gone there looking for a place to discuss Cooper and found very little & seems like I interferred with the discussion of another subject.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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'You may not see it, but we see the bias. Your biases displayed in this forum are apparent...'



I think anybody who has investigated a suspect has been guilty of this phenomenon at one time or another. But in order to counter your claim, I would have to re-present the entire case against Christiansen and his buddy Bernie Geestman. And I'm not willing to do that, and you probably don't want to hear it.

I have said one thing from the start of the investigation into Kenny. Some people laughed it off, and that's fine, but I still believe it is true: That if Christiansen was Cooper, you aren't going to discover the truth on that strictly through documents, pictures, a house sale, or even a suspicious cash loan. You will find out by the testimony of witnesses, testimony that can be verified enough to interest the FBI in actually checking him out.

I have the greatest respect for the FBI, and in most of the cases they have handled, but for some reason they never got a good handle on Cooper. And I think they have made mistakes in the Cooper case. For example, going public with Marla. Or...insisting over the years there was a storm the night Cooper jumped when there wasn't. Or...being nearly certain that Richard Floyd McCoy was the guy when he wasn't. And there have been others.

Now they have no budget left to investigate the case. They got burned by Marla after they encouraged the public to assist them. Marla took that opportunity to try and make a fast buck. I heard from a couple of sources that she actually blames me because no major publisher would pick up her book. (Not my fault)

My intention with Mr Kenny and Mr Bernie is pretty damn simple. It is NOT to somehow twist facts to 'prove' they were involved in the Cooper hijacking. It is to discover the truth on whether they were or not. It's a real easy concept. This is why I finally decided to cooperate with the Geestman family, because it's a big family and I think the truth will eventually come out. It's pretty hard to keep such a big secret forever in families. Members of Geestman's extended family told me in their first interview that they had no clue Bernie was even suspected of being involved until they saw him on History Channel. He didn't even bother to tell them he was going to be on TV.

After that happened, they started surreptitiously following everything Kenny-related. The book, reruns of the show, articles, even Dropzone posts. (Some of them admitted they lurk here, but will never post, so they are seeing this now) Then they got hold of me by phone. We talked a few times, then I did my first interview with them.

At that time, I provided them with the newest, and most accurate report on all witness testimony and the available evidence. It is much more detailed, and frankly...much more accurate than the original. We spent a couple of hours at the restaurant going over it page by page, and then I let them take copies home. I told them this: "Either those two are guilty as hell, or its the biggest set of coincidences in history..."

The search for truth on these two is the ONLY motivation I have. It isn't about money, it never was. It's about finding out whether we (Skipp and I) were right or not the whole time. :)
Some people don't like that. Or they have other agendas and act like angry children. Sometimes they lie, sometimes they attack you personally in efforts to discredit you. Or they play dirty tricks sometimes. Sometimes they even get banned from Dropzone because they couldn't act like adults. Whatever. I can deal with it.


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RobertMBlevins


My intention with Mr Kenny and Mr Bernie is pretty damn simple. It is NOT to somehow twist facts to 'prove' they were involved in the Cooper hijacking. It is to discover the truth on whether they were or not. It's a real easy concept. This is why I finally decided to go to the Geestman family, because it's a big family and I think the truth will eventually come out. It's pretty hard to keep such a big secret forever in families. Members of Geestman's extended family told me in their first interview that they had no clue Bernie was even suspected of being involved until they saw him on History Channel. He didn't even bother to tell them he was going to be on TV.


I think this paragraph is telling...It's not that people think you want to twist the facts. It's that you BELIEVE that Kenny is the hijacker. As a result, you not only give more weight to information that supports the view, you view any information through that lens.

For example, in the quote above, you're saying none of Bernie's family had any knowledge of the hijacking. In fact, none of your witnesses claim any knowledge of the hijacking. You believe they do, and you're trying to extract that information. The most likely reason your witnesses don't claim to know anything is there is nothing for them to know.

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MarkBennett

***
My intention with Mr Kenny and Mr Bernie is pretty damn simple. It is NOT to somehow twist facts to 'prove' they were involved in the Cooper hijacking. It is to discover the truth on whether they were or not. It's a real easy concept. This is why I finally decided to go to the Geestman family, because it's a big family and I think the truth will eventually come out. It's pretty hard to keep such a big secret forever in families. Members of Geestman's extended family told me in their first interview that they had no clue Bernie was even suspected of being involved until they saw him on History Channel. He didn't even bother to tell them he was going to be on TV.


I think this paragraph is telling...It's not that people think you want to twist the facts. It's that you BELIEVE that Kenny is the hijacker. As a result, you not only give more weight to information that supports the view, you view any information through that lens.

For example, in the quote above, you're saying none of Bernie's family had any knowledge of the hijacking. In fact, none of your witnesses claim any knowledge of the hijacking. You believe they do, and you're trying to extract that information. The most likely reason your witnesses don't claim to know anything is there is nothing for them to know.

Could be. :)


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RobertMBlevins

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'You may not see it, but we see the bias. Your biases displayed in this forum are apparent...'



I have said one thing from the start of the investigation into Kenny. Some people laughed it off, and that's fine, but I still believe it is true: That if Christiansen was Cooper, you aren't going to discover the truth on that strictly through documents, pictures, a house sale, or even a suspicious cash loan. You will find out by the testimony of witnesses, testimony that can be verified enough to interest the FBI in actually checking him out.

My intention with Mr Kenny and Mr Bernie is pretty damn simple. It is NOT to somehow twist facts to 'prove' they were involved in the Cooper hijacking. It is to discover the truth on whether they were or not. It's a real easy concept. This is why I finally decided to cooperate with the Geestman family, because it's a big family and I think the truth will eventually come out. It's pretty hard to keep such a big secret forever in families. Members of Geestman's extended family told me in their first interview that they had no clue Bernie was even suspected of being involved until they saw him on History Channel. He didn't even bother to tell them he was going to be on TV.

After that happened, they started surreptitiously following everything Kenny-related. The book, reruns of the show, articles, even Dropzone posts. (Some of them admitted they lurk here, but will never post, so they are seeing this now) Then they got hold of me by phone. We talked a few times, then I did my first interview with them.


At that time, I provided them with the newest, and most accurate report on all witness testimony and the available evidence. It is much more detailed, and frankly...much more accurate than the original. We spent a couple of hours at the restaurant going over it page by page, and then I let them take copies home. I told them this: "Either those two are guilty as hell, or its the biggest set of coincidences in history..."



So....If you had a chance to talk to Tina M (yes, that one) or Bill Mitchell (if you could find him) would you do the following?

Here is the scenario that comes to mind when I read your post above (edited).

Contact Tina.....or Bill, by phone, letter or email.....
Introduce yourself as an investigator into the Cooper hi-jacking as you believe Kenny is the guy.

Send a packet with all the information about KC. Why you think he did it and let them study it until they are ready to take a look at the photographs you want to show them. From you previous posts on DZ this is the procedure you used when contacting Bill Mitchell (the wrong one) in Eugene, OR.

You set up a meeting, an interview as you call it. Tell them how mean everyone at Dropzone is. That all you seek is the truth. Why can't anyone give you a break.....At this meeting you intend to show them the photos, but as you do it you regurgitate your 25 reasons why you and Skipp believe KC is the guy.

Then show the first photograph. As you do, you say, "and this photograph was shown in Decoded and it matches the sketch with a high percentage. Watch what happens when I put the composite on plastic and put it over Kenny's picture? See.....it has to be him. The FBI is so cracked that they can't see this! "

Then...do or die time. You plop all the photos out in front of the witnesses. You categorize each photo and tell the story of each scene. This is Kenny when......yada yada yada...You conveniently forget to tell them his height because you do not want Kenny ruled out on something so trivial. Then Tina...(or Bill), take a look at the photograph and say....Well, he does resemble the sketch. Maybe?"

BAM.....It has to be Kenny because the witnesses did not say NO!

Giving a interviewed person information about specifics surrounding the event that was not previously known, similar to the scenario above, is a type of Confirmation Bias used in interviewing.

The quote blow, as taken from the research study of:
Skill in Interviewing Reduces Confirmation Bias
MARTINE B. POWELL*, CAROLYN H. HUGHES-SCHOLES and STEFANIE J. SHARMAN
School of Psychology, Deakin University, 221 Burwood Highway, Burwood, Victoria, Australia

Quote

Confirmation bias refers to ‘the seeking or interpreting of evidence in ways that are partial
to existing beliefs, expectations, or a hypothesis in hand’ (Nickerson, 1998, p. 175). Such
bias encourages people to focus on information that they are searching for to support their
beliefs and to ignore the information that does not support those beliefs (Ask & Granhag,
2005). In the context of investigative interviewing, confirmation bias is observed when
interviewers ask questions that include or presume details that were not already mentioned
by the interviewee (Ceci & Bruck, 1995). As a result of such questions, the risk of false
witness testimony is heightened
(Powell, Garry & Brewer, 2009).



In addition.....Geestman's extended family are not "witnesses"......however, Tina M and Bill Mitchell are. There is a huge difference.
Melvin Luther Wilson - Missing Person since September 1971:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

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EVickiW

***

Quote

'You may not see it, but we see the bias. Your biases displayed in this forum are apparent...'



I have said one thing from the start of the investigation into Kenny. Some people laughed it off, and that's fine, but I still believe it is true: That if Christiansen was Cooper, you aren't going to discover the truth on that strictly through documents, pictures, a house sale, or even a suspicious cash loan. You will find out by the testimony of witnesses, testimony that can be verified enough to interest the FBI in actually checking him out.

My intention with Mr Kenny and Mr Bernie is pretty damn simple. It is NOT to somehow twist facts to 'prove' they were involved in the Cooper hijacking. It is to discover the truth on whether they were or not. It's a real easy concept. This is why I finally decided to cooperate with the Geestman family, because it's a big family and I think the truth will eventually come out. It's pretty hard to keep such a big secret forever in families. Members of Geestman's extended family told me in their first interview that they had no clue Bernie was even suspected of being involved until they saw him on History Channel. He didn't even bother to tell them he was going to be on TV.

After that happened, they started surreptitiously following everything Kenny-related. The book, reruns of the show, articles, even Dropzone posts. (Some of them admitted they lurk here, but will never post, so they are seeing this now) Then they got hold of me by phone. We talked a few times, then I did my first interview with them.


At that time, I provided them with the newest, and most accurate report on all witness testimony and the available evidence. It is much more detailed, and frankly...much more accurate than the original. We spent a couple of hours at the restaurant going over it page by page, and then I let them take copies home. I told them this: "Either those two are guilty as hell, or its the biggest set of coincidences in history..."



So....If you had a chance to talk to Tina M (yes, that one) or Bill Mitchell (if you could find him) would you do the following?

Here is the scenario that comes to mind when I read your post above (edited).

Contact Tina.....or Bill, by phone, letter or email.....
Introduce yourself as an investigator into the Cooper hi-jacking as you believe Kenny is the guy.

Send a packet with all the information about KC. Why you think he did it and let them study it until they are ready to take a look at the photographs you want to show them. From you previous posts on DZ this is the procedure you used when contacting Bill Mitchell (the wrong one) in Eugene, OR.

You set up a meeting, an interview as you call it. Tell them how mean everyone at Dropzone is. That all you seek is the truth. Why can't anyone give you a break.....At this meeting you intend to show them the photos, but as you do it you regurgitate your 25 reasons why you and Skipp believe KC is the guy.

Then show the first photograph. As you do, you say, "and this photograph was shown in Decoded and it matches the sketch with a high percentage. Watch what happens when I put the composite on plastic and put it over Kenny's picture? See.....it has to be him. The FBI is so cracked that they can't see this! "

Then...do or die time. You plop all the photos out in front of the witnesses. You categorize each photo and tell the story of each scene. This is Kenny when......yada yada yada...You conveniently forget to tell them his height because you do not want Kenny ruled out on something so trivial. Then Tina...(or Bill), take a look at the photograph and say....Well, he does resemble the sketch. Maybe?"

BAM.....It has to be Kenny because the witnesses did not say NO!

Giving a interviewed person information about specifics surrounding the event that was not previously known, similar to the scenario above, is a type of Confirmation Bias used in interviewing.

The quote blow, as taken from the research study of:
Skill in Interviewing Reduces Confirmation Bias
MARTINE B. POWELL*, CAROLYN H. HUGHES-SCHOLES and STEFANIE J. SHARMAN
School of Psychology, Deakin University, 221 Burwood Highway, Burwood, Victoria, Australia

Quote

Confirmation bias refers to ‘the seeking or interpreting of evidence in ways that are partial
to existing beliefs, expectations, or a hypothesis in hand’ (Nickerson, 1998, p. 175). Such
bias encourages people to focus on information that they are searching for to support their
beliefs and to ignore the information that does not support those beliefs (Ask & Granhag,
2005). In the context of investigative interviewing, confirmation bias is observed when
interviewers ask questions that include or presume details that were not already mentioned
by the interviewee (Ceci & Bruck, 1995). As a result of such questions, the risk of false
witness testimony is heightened
(Powell, Garry & Brewer, 2009).



In addition.....Geestman's extended family are not "witnesses"......however, Tina M and Bill Mitchell are. There is a huge difference.


EVick, you're gonna be one kick-ass detective.

So that's what they teach ya in LE skool, eh? Cool stuff.

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Wow...couple of really long quotes and posts there. I noticed today that quite a few posts lately at the ALTERNATE site have my name inserted into them. For a site that supposedly wants to avoid discussing me, you guys sure spend a lot of time doing it. I'm flattered. B|

Including Georger, who said: 'If that S.O.B. is allowed here I will be more than happy to leave...' (paraphrased)

It's nice to be well thought of by people. I don't think I will answer your questions, though...except for one comment. Vicki is right when she says Geestman's extended family are not witnesses to the crime. As far as I know, none of them can say whether Geestman was involved. What they are is family...with every piece of available information on Kenny and Geestman now in their possession. That's all. And they are working from that. I see nothing wrong with this approach. You want to know the truth on Kenny and Mr Bernie, don't you? Or do your personal feelings for me get in the way of wanting to know the truth? Or...maybe you have another agenda, who knows?

Stop worrying. Either they were involved or they weren't. Sooner or later the truth will come out one way or another, and the chances they were NOT involved are much greater than the opposite possibility. The odds are heavily in your favor.

On the subject of witnesses: Everyone knows that any identification based on pictures from a witness forty years after the fact is going to be shaky. Even if Mitchell said 'Yes, that's the guy!' about Kenny Christiansen it wouldn't prove a thing today. You would need corroborating evidence. Tina Mucklow is completely useless as a witness, (remember what she told Tosaw about 30 years ago?) And she won't speak to anyone about the case. Not now, not later, not EVER. And any chance of approaching Mucklow through her sister and brother in law was ruined when the Dormuth family in Shelton saw Bruce Smith's article.

To be frank, the reason I agreed to meet with Geestman's family and give them all the information was because I think that's the best chance to find out whether he was involved in the hijacking. And because they ASKED. Who knows? If Geestman was part of the hijacking, his own family might get him to admit it. It's a lot harder to blow off your family, than say...a History Channel exec on the phone. Either way, I think the truth will eventually emerge on him. What that truth is I just haven't a clue right now. However, I suspect that one of these family members *might* already know the truth, although I can't be sure at this point. This person was at the Jones' place when Mr Geestman failed to show for Thanksgiving in '71. This person said to me:

Quote

'We'd rather wait until he (Geestman) is gone (passed on) before saying anything...'



I'm trying to convince them otherwise, of course. And I wondered who 'we' referred to. But this sort of thing in families has to be handled delicately. This person also said the least during my first interview with the group. Mostly they listened, and studied the new report I gave them. I'm not sure what it all means yet. Working on it though.


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skyjack71

Smile - I LOVE it
Confirmation Bias!

You go Gal! Good post!



All well and good to quote cutesy psychobabble from the internet or a Google link. Quite another to do a hard investigation, keep records and notes, etc on a suspect. This psychobabble, i.e. trying to write off everything known on KC and Bernie Geestman with a flippant posting like that reminds of a scene from the film E.T. - The Extra-Terrestrial:

Quote

Greg: Can't he just beam up?

Elliot: This is reality, Greg.



Reality is hitting the bricks and working...not looking to the internet for generalized answers that really answer nothing. :S


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For several months now I have sent Blevins some private information I thought he could help me with since he lives in the WA area.

Since it has become evident he is NOT going to help - I appeal NOW to any of you WHO live in WA to help me with the vague information I had.
Remember I do not know Wa and I do not know HOW to spell the names.

Please do what you can...I have trusted the WRONG individuals - individuals with a personal agenda.

ALL I want is the truth - but the only way to do that is spell out what Connect I have regarding Weber & WA, OR and CA - they are vague.

BECAUSE DUANE TOLD ME IN 1979 ABOUT A MAN WHO WORKED FOR THE SAME COMPANY GEESTMAN DID - I need answers...I told Mr. H about this yrs and yrs ago - from the beginning and it had NOTHING to do with Blevins because at that time I had never heard of Blevins - he was not even on the map.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I ran the names you gave and even downloaded a massive PDF containing all the known records of domestic air crashes, private and public, since 1908. Nothing came up about a biplane with the name you provided, and nothing on the other name, the woman's name. I suppose I should have emailed you, though.

Bernie Geestman did not work in a LOT of places, but wherever he worked it was a large company with many employees. He was also in business for himself for some time while he lived in Oakville, WA. These are the places he worked at different times, in order:

1) NWA - flight mechanic - Shemya Island, AK

2) NWA - flight mechanic - Seattle, WA

3) Boeing Aircraft - 727 division - Seattle, WA

4) Foss Tugs - Diesel mechanic - Seattle, WA


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;)The two women were best friends... Duane's mother's name was Lorraine Beechler Weber and her mothers maiden name was Wenz. \The Wenz and the other surnames migrated to WA from Mn
or N.Y. .

Remember this - OUTSIDE of bookkeeping programs I had never touched a computer prior to 2000...I may have attempted to do some searches at the OFFICE after everyone left, but did NOT own a computer until 2000. What time I had alone in the office - was limited...and I didn't know what the HELL I was doing.

In 1996 I told Mr. Himmelsbach what Duane said about the Tug boats. We discussed this even though at that time I did not grasp what he was telling me....in the beginning the FBI checked out a lead from what I believe he said was Foss Tugs, but then another name was used. This was a strong lead. I even talked to a man with Foss Tuggs (do NOT really remember the name - might be in the note books) and he told me they shared what they had with the FBI - seems like there was MORE than one suspect they thought connected....but it was not current employment in 1971. The man who spoke to me only knew the hear say and was not in volved in 1971, but did know the name of the man who claimed to know.

MR. H has all of this.

I do not know if the leads did NOT pan out or what. Seems like some one who worked for the Tug Boats remembered a man he thought could have been Cooper - and not that Cooper was then a current employee. Maybe that man was Geestman, but someone would have to prove to me Geestman was NOT questioned by the FBI in 1972 and the EXACT DATES OF EMPLOYMENT. Belvins told us the yrs. Geestman worked for this or similar industries.

Didn't mean to start there but it just came out. I realize NOW that all the information I have been sharing with Blevins (I KEPT COPIES of my COMMUNICATIONS) he is using my information not to find the truth, but to OUT live me & make it part of his story.:|:o:) JUST HAD TO SAY THAT.

Anyone who knows me knows I could never write a book! I ramble and I do not connect things - it is the over flow of memories - REAL memories & not lies or stories that have just been created.

The history of the GEESTMANS does intersect with Weber, but I do NOT really know how...and kept pouring out information to Blevins only to see of some if it come right back at me, but in a different way.

Frankly at this moment I think Skipp Porteous is the one playing the game - HE IS THE GAME MASTER.... & BLEVINS is HIS PUPPET.

HOW many of YOU really know the background of Skipp Porteous & have any of you ever met him?

NOPE - not even Galen Cook....unless Skip is one of Galen's many personalities!:ph34r:;)

I will put NOTHING beyond the kajoling of Galen's coniving ways.

Note that Skip is a guy with a pic that slightly resembles Sluggo & all we ever hear is communications monitored or changed by Blevins...and supposely supplied by Skip.

What if SKIPP is a ploy! Can be good or bad?

I believe the ad that was run by SKIPP was a ploy. NOT sure what his angle was - but he WAS not interested in Weber! It was like he was looking for a SUCKER to take the heat of the real sources of Cooper - ask yourself WHY?

Someone is playing some really dirty games - but since it was only a gut instinct I have kept quiet until now...didn't want to have another ACCIDENT!:ph34r::P

Skip & Galen sound like the same personalities to me. Blevins is just the puppet and Kenny bless his heart is not here to defend himself.

Remember Duane asked about Kenny from the woman from WA who came to see him before or after 1994. WHY? HOW or WHY did these individual know Weber & how did they KNOW were he was.

The shop was named The Peddlar Shop and it was just a FEW blocks from the Airport.

I think DUANE contacted them from the shop - because she got a taxi straight to the shop (I remembered asking her how she got to the shop and she told me by taxi. I stated other wise, until I tried to relive those moments. The other person (a Man) was going to pick her up there - he would be driving a pick-up and was in Pensacola to see a friend or a relative. IT was not Kenny because DUANE use his name when he asked about him and she said he was not good.

I asked her what Color the pick up was as one was coming down the road...I do not remember waht color the pickup was coming down the road. I did ask her the color. I do know the color she said but it was RED, BLUE or GREEN - it was ONE of those colors - a detail that is void from my memory.

The truck coming down the road did NOT pull into the shop.

IT was right after that I left - had to get back to work. If I was an artist I could draw you a picture of the woman - but I cannot put the images in my mind onto paper.

I did NOT see her standing so I do not know her height. She was stout however you like to refer to it....but NOT grossly overweight....

Her HAIR was OBVIOUSLY dyed a brown. She had some hair framing her face - and the length is evasive to me....The picture with the white hair and bangs - I have a problem with the younger Mrs. Geestman you pictured as compared with the older Mrs. Geestman. Most women can NOT go from wearing Banks to pulling their hair away from their face easily....something about the picture was NOT correct unless the picture with the bangs was a wig. The short gray hair could have been a wig...did you ASK her?

I have REPEATEDLY ASK BLEVINS to PRODUCE PICTURES OF BOTH WOMEN TAKEN AROUND 1994. That should not be too difficult since there was OTHERS at the Thankgiving get together! RIGHT!

When families got together in those day - someone ALWAYS had a camera! NO picture No THANKGIVING dinner.

I do NOT care if Blevins puts UP pictures or both women taken around 1993 and pictures of other women from that era and I will ID it ...the correct one or none at all.

I challenge - BLEVINS to do this ASAP if he wants the truth - otherwise with NO pic he only enforces the negative. He doesn't have to put them in the thread - just sent them at my regular email address...pictures I took at times had the yr on them...

The woman in my memory was an older and heavier picture of the young brunett Blevins posted at one time.....AND a younger picture than the one standing with her husband only per the gray hair and BANGS.

The bangs on the picture with the husband gave me a PROBLEM, If the woman in the other picture with the long hair - was an older Mrs. Geestman - then she was wearing a wig in the one with the SHORT GRAY hair with bangs.

WOMEN know these things!
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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