DB Cooper

[georger 197]

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I was reviewing some more scans from the Gunther book that Sluggo forwarded to me.

It's interesting that the Clara letters refer to Cooper as
"Dan" with the quotations. But the two much earlier letters supposedly from Cooper himself, are signed D.B. Cooper

Clara also used "Dan Cooper"

My take on it, is that the Gunther letters from Clara had nothing to do with the Gunther letters from Cooper. (edit) There were many phone calls with "Clara"? It's possible Gunther asked on the first: "Is this Clara?"...of course you would answer "Why yes of course, how did you know?".

Basically, all the Gunther stuff seems like nonsense. If the first letter was really Cooper, it seems hard to believe that the title of the 1962 magazine article would have been remembered so perfectly.

Reply> Question: is this the same Max Gunther who
wrote "The Zurich Axioms" ?

• Quote

[snowmman 3]

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I was reviewing some more scans from the Gunther book that Sluggo forwarded to me.

It's interesting that the Clara letters refer to Cooper as
"Dan" with the quotations. But the two much earlier letters supposedly from Cooper himself, are signed D.B. Cooper

Clara also used "Dan Cooper"

My take on it, is that the Gunther letters from Clara had nothing to do with the Gunther letters from Cooper. (edit) There were many phone calls with "Clara"? It's possible Gunther asked on the first: "Is this Clara?"...of course you would answer "Why yes of course, how did you know?".

Basically, all the Gunther stuff seems like nonsense. If the first letter was really Cooper, it seems hard to believe that the title of the 1962 magazine article would have been remembered so perfectly.

Reply> Question: is this the same Max Gunther who
wrote "The Zurich Axioms" ?

Yes, but that's obvious from a simple Google search. Why do you ask? He wrote a lot of books. I think his total may have been 26? Lots more magazine articles. Prolific. He was not focused on Cooper. Cooper seemed to have been just a one-off deal for him.

(edit) Amongst the major and minor axioms: (1985)

The Tenth Axiom teaches that a majority, though not always and automatically wrong, is more likely to be wrong than right. Guard against betting unthinkingly either with the majority or against, but particularly the former. Figure everything out for yourself before putting your money at risk.

The greatest pressures on you, and the most frequently felt, will be those that push you into betting with the majority. Such march-with-the-crowd speculations, the Axiom warns, can be costly, for it is in their nature that they tend to make you buy when prices are high and sell when they are low. The strongest line of resistance against these pressures is a keen awareness of their existence and insidious power.

The Eleventh Major Axiom: on Stubbornness
If it doesn’t pay off the first time, forget it.

(edit) full download at
http://www.freedrive.com/file/115132,zurich_axioms.pdf

• Quote

[georger 197]

Reply> Question: is this the same Max Gunther who
wrote "The Zurich Axioms" ?

[snowmman 3]

You may have Gunther right.
But why don't you just read more of his stuff. It's easily available to some degree at Google Books.

here
http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&um=1&q=%22Max+Gunther%22&btnG=Search+Books
(edit) or amazon
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Max%20Gunther&page=1

"The Split Level Trap" 1961 was case studies on suburbia. (Two Gordons were main authors). Actually referenced a lot.

(edit) I was thinking from the True magazine articles, he sounded like someone who would write for Penthouse or Playboy. He did!

Virility 8: A Celebration of the American Male
By Max Gunther
Published by Playboy Press, 1975
ISBN 087223391X, 9780872233911
280 pages

[georger 197]

Quote

You may have Gunther right.
But why don't you just read more of his stuff. It's easily available to some degree at Google Books.

here
http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&um=1&q=%22Max+Gunther%22&btnG=Search+Books

(edit) I was thinking from the True magazine articles, he sounded like someone who would write for Penthouse or Playboy. He did!

Virility 8: A Celebration of the American Male
By Max Gunther
Published by Playboy Press, 1975
ISBN 087223391X, 9780872233911
280 pages

Reply: He goes at some length to establish that
that Cooper hijacked an aeroplane due to male
rejection by females, cultural-economic male usurpation, and probably ________ envy (an anotomical part of the female I won't name).
All in a parachute with lofers on. How fashionable!

So, where was Cooper's Wall Street Journal, to complete the image. Had to get out before 10:00pm
PST to go dine with the Queen-mum.

Cooper was educated and literary and backed causes. Maybe Coopr was a medical doctor!?
All Zurich trained hijackers are. Karl-Jung, Levi-
Strauss, Meitner, and all that...

You know many of these people's heirs live in the
Canary Islands today. Maybe go investigate there.
Somebody might know something about our Cooper.
The money was not important. It was all a lark.

So, in this scenario how come Jo and Duane didn't
wind up in the Canary Isle's also, living alongside
Martha duPont and Sheeknee Canoe? (You know
they all had summer homes at Mackinack Island
where there were hotel clerks also!)

The letter is fragmentary, incoherent, and just the
kind of thing an exile from Paradise would write.
The only thing missing is mention of Divine Right.
And all epics of history are written on a cheap typriter. Cooper, the literary figure.

Both the Axioms and DB Cooper in 1985. Both borrowed. (he's just the editor of great people and great ideas), like I am. I recognise a cousin of the
same feather and Duane and Jo are welcome in my
parlor any time - just bring potato salad & tea!

The Dux secret code breaks down as follows, but
I admit Im an amateur at this. Fig 1 shows the
whole thing. This seems to consist of a D, an x, and
a fishhook thing resembling part of a u without any
serif (sp?).

Fig.1A shows the D and x removed and Fig 1B shows
the flotsam left which is what, I do not know.

But if you take the junk and clean it up and forget
off axis line through D you get what faintly resembles
the right lower segment of a capital D (fig 2)

Now, if you take that segment and insert it over a
capitol D brought to bear from elsewhere in the letter, the fit is pretty good. (See fig 3.) And, if
you downsize the whole thing the fit is even better.
(fig 4).

So, my analysis is the "x" was written over the "D",
then somehow the maker tried to back space to
print a second D over the first to enhance it a
second time but got impatient and typed D before
the carraige had stopped moving and viola! You get
a fragment of a capital D off to one side.

The original intent looks like an "xx" for kissy-kissy.
But since D is above x on the keyboard the author
misstruck resulting in both D and x. Then the correction snafu. Which means the author had no correction paper, or the author was Duane!!!

D and B spell DB Cooper. And there you have it!

This letter is authentic and written by D = Duane,
in a Freudian slip.

The logic is flawless and the forensics impecable.

On to the next case. (in the Canaries)

Georger

[snowmman 3]

georger! you've outdone yourself with that post.
I applaud. At the very least, it's good performance art!
(edit) "And all epics of history are written on a cheap typriter."
They are! and a single roll of teletype paper (Jack Kerouac)...hey..wait a second. teletype?
And georger must use a cheap "typriter" with sticking keys!

(edit) Myth: it was a series of large sheets of tracing paper cut and taped together, not teletype.

[Orange1 0]

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Orange,

The tie is a "skinny" black tie with no markings that could ID it to any one individual. I am sure millions, as in the many plural form, had one just like it in 1971. And the tie clip is a clasp, not the “stick pin” type. There are no markings on any of it that some one could look at the two items and say, “Those belong to..........”

Hope that helps

Thanks... ( I specifically wanted your answer rather than other posters, especially those who keep on saying the FBI hide stuff )

btw if the tie is a skinny black tie then it is not the same one they showed in the program (wider typical "early 70s" style with diagonal stripes that looked blue & grey...)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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NO MARKINGS AT ALL on a clasp! or are you referring to the tie only

If there are NO markings on the clasp - then what is the metal content...few items have NO markings at all.

Jo, why on earth do you find it so hard to believe that a cheap mass-produced tie clip has no distinctive markings on it?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[lodestar 0]

Just a byword,
I heard on NPR this morning of a DB Cooper "reunion" party held in a small town in Washington state.
Although I was busy at the same time, several sound bytes stuck in my mind, one was an interview with the current FBI agent in charge of the case who was basically non commital about the whole thing, and several "interviews" with attendees who expoused various theories on who, what , when and where but I hesitate to repeat those theories and further the "rumors" surrounding them.
Just thought you all might want to know that.

[snowmman 3]

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Although I was busy at the same time, several sound bytes stuck in my mind, .

The audio is available here (12/1/08)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97629326&ft=1&f=1021

(about 4 mins.)

I suppose sticky typewriter keys have been replaced by sticky sound bytes.

[snowmman 3]

Do we have the testimony on the note exactly right? Forgive me if we do, I searched the thread, but wasn't confident. Also, were we told whether the note was typewritten, handwritten in block letters, pen or ink or ??? I don't think so? Please clarify.

(edit) In Shakespeare's "The Taming of the Shrew"
http://www.google.com/books?id=J8JB_5MdDN0C&pg=PA65&dq=come+sit+by+me
when Petruchio says "Come sit on me", the interpretation is as a "bawdy introduction to sex"

(edit) I have read the note was "printed in felt-tip pen and in all capital letters". Is this myth or fact? gg added "elegantly formed". I don't know where he got that.

(edit) Also any testimony on the paper. Size? texture? Was it typing paper? Stationery? Did it have anything else on it? Was it cut down to a size? Was it white paper? Did it have any folds in it?

In the way past, Ckret said the note said
(edit) I incorrectly left out "Miss" on the original post
"Miss I have a bomb. Come sit by me"

In 1975, the wording was reported as:
"I have a bomb in my brief case."

Alternate wordings mentioned by others more recently:

“Miss, I’ve got a bomb, come sit next to me"

"I have a bomb in my briefcase. I want you to sit beside me"

"I've got a bomb, come sit next to me - you're being hijacked.'

"I have a bomb in my briefcase. I will use it if necessary. I want you to sit beside me."

"I have a bomb here. I would like you to sit by me."

(edit) Some of the Themes from "Taming of the Shrew"

* Characters creating new identities and personas: disguises are carefully planned and calculated to allow characters to be successful in love. Love is therefore won through deceit, and the true personality is masked, i.e. Lucentio.

* The Social Conditioning of Women: their lack of status within this society, the attitudes that male characters have towards women, the submissive role of women in courting and marriage. The behaviour of women is classed as 'shrewish' and needing 'taming' if a woman questions male authority and rejects the courtly love tradition, or is seen to be attractive and admirable (correct behaviour) if the woman is passive and accepting of male domination by her father and husband.

* The Power of Words: characters are constantly entering into banter and trying to outwit each other through the use of language, i.e. when Petruchio first meets Katharina, and when Petruchio is with his manservant, Grumio.

* A Battle of Wills: the Tamer and the bird ('kite'). The Tamer is always watching, subduing, denying sleep and food in this battle for supremacy. He weakens his rival, and makes her dependent on him.

[happythoughts 0]

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Forums: Search Results
Click here to find out more!
Your search for tie returned 429 results in 0.185s.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 18 Next page Last page

...been here before. Is this a new and different tie?

[snowmman 3]

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Forums: Search Results
Click here to find out more!
Your search for tie returned 429 results in 0.185s.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 18 Next page Last page

...been here before. Is this a new and different tie?

Are you talking about literature? I have no idea what tie we're talking about or whether anything makes sense.

In another thread, a poster said "I just drink and type until I slump over the keyboard. Then I wake up the next morning and see what I've posted".

I can identify with that!

[georger 197]

Quote

georger! you've outdone yourself with that post.
I applaud. At the very least, it's good performance art!
(edit) "And all epics of history are written on a cheap typriter."
They are! and a single roll of teletype paper (Jack Kerouac)...hey..wait a second. teletype?
And georger must use a cheap "typriter" with sticking keys!

(edit) Myth: it was a series of large sheets of tracing paper cut and taped together, not teletype.

Reply> At first I was unclear about (which or how many) Max Gunther was being spoken of. I did not
asociate the DB Cooper gunther with Zurich Axioms
gunther, but there may be a parallel now that the association is tied and I think that has to be taken
seriously.

We have a writer biting off diverse topics with some underlying general themes. Common to all is a certain lack of criticality, which of course was what the economics-Gunther (Axioms) got attacked for.

Suffice it to say the Max Gunther of the Axioms never made it into the Chicago School of Economics, or Havard, or any place else in formal academia - except
as a sick and perverse joke! But, he did make his way into Reagan's White House, through Stockman. Sean
Hanity still talks about Gunther from time to time! That
is the Gunther I was thinking about. That he also writes the book about Cooper is just one rat in his witches stew.

Whatever Gunther was holding himself out to be he
was no economist. (I was best friends with an economist and you are no Economist, Max!)

Not only were his socalled axioms not even his own but his fathers, a banker, but he never spelled out (or knew!) what premises the axioms flowed from. Max
did not even know axioms require premises, because
as a formal matter it is premises that generate 'axioms'. More Jesus-on-the-toast! What Max is passing down is his father's folk wisdom, passed off
as "formal economic principles". Well. "Knee bone is
connected to thy bone" is not formal economics.

The same year he publishes his Cooper book because
like his father's folk banking wisdom, Max had also been holding on to another family treasure - Cooper's
letter.

Dare I say: FRAUD?

He does appear to be a "playboy" just as critics of his
socalled Axioms panned.

He's playing with econmics and he's playing with Cooper. Very likely he dosn't know the difference and
does not care.

That Jo Weber would spend one minute on Gunther
shows where her head is. That both would spend time
together shows where both their heads are!

And why is any of this important? Because there are
still people who believe we ever landed on the Moon!

Max Gunther would be the last person on Earth the real
DB Cooper would write.


Georger.

[snowmman 3]

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"Knee bone is connected to thy bone" is not formal economics.

Well at least we're getting facts now!

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Forums: Search Results
Click here to find out more!
Your search for tie returned 429 results in 0.185s.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 18 Next page Last page

...been here before. Is this a new and different tie?

Are you talking about literature? I have no idea what tie we're talking about or whether anything makes sense.

In another thread, a poster said "I just drink and type until I slump over the keyboard. Then I wake up the next morning and see what I've posted".

I can identify with that!

I just thought that there are two choices.
One, people can re-read the 429 previous discussions of the tie and observe the exact same information 3 times.
Two, re-type them.

So, since this is the same tie that was discussed earlier this year (March, when we repeated the Nov '07 posts), I was suggesting that people use the search feature.

It is a time-saver. People do not need to search the internet and post their "new discoveries" again.

Same goes for the clasp.

[snowmman 3]

re: search feature

But if people edit their posts, the DZ.com search feature has a bug which I have duly noted here before.

Therefore, what you say, is not guaranteed. It may give up the right result, but a small possibility that it might not.

I don't understand what your point is. Searching can replace my posts?

[georger 197]

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"Knee bone is connected to thy bone" is not formal economics.

Well at least we're getting facts now!

Reply> For me it is sentential structure as a reflection
of linguistic thought patterns. There is a mismatch
for one. Intellectual ideas are being written in poor English. It's a little like a 3rd grader writing about
Relativity, that is so "meaningful" to him personally.
How meaningful, can relativity be, to a third grader?

But the sentential grammer is rather clear. It looks
Germanic. Heavy use of qualifiers (particularly, partly,
partially) at the beginning of the letter just when the
author is seeking to establish a presence and a
persona. That is very German. Then the use of rather
long qualifying phrases in the middle and at the ends
of sentences, all parsed by commas. All suggestive of
German sentential thought phrasing.

Is this the guy who said, "Get the plane on the road!"
if Cooper said that?

Gunther is German. Cooper looked Mediterranean.

G.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Quote

"Knee bone is connected to thy bone" is not formal economics.

Well at least we're getting facts now!

Reply> For me it is sentential structure as a reflection
of linguistic thought patterns. There is a mismatch
for one. Intellectual ideas are being written in poor English. It's a little like a 3rd grader writing about
Relativity, that is so "meaningful" to him personally.
How meaningful, can relativity be, to a third grader?

But the sentential grammer is rather clear. It looks
Germanic. Heavy use of qualifiers (particularly, partly,
partially) at the beginning of the letter just when the
author is seeking to establish a presence and a
persona. That is very German. Then the use of rather
long qualifying phrases in the middle and at the ends
of sentences, all parsed by commas. All suggestive of
German sentential thought phrasing.

Is this the guy who said, "Get the plane on the road!"
if Cooper said that?

Gunther is German. Cooper looked Mediterranean.

G.

I don't know what Cooper said. Would he have said
"Well, shit, let's get the show on the road, what's the hold up?"

Is that Mediterranean?

[skyjack71 0]

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But the sentential grammer is rather clear. It looks
Germanic. Heavy use of qualifiers (particularly, partly,
partially) at the beginning of the letter just when the
author is seeking to establish a presence and a
persona. That is very German. Then the use of rather
long qualifying phrases in the middle and at the ends
of sentences, all parsed by commas. All suggestive of
German sentential thought phrasing.

Is this the guy who said, "Get the plane on the road!"
if Cooper said that?

Gunther is German. Cooper looked Mediterranean.

I do not understand what you are doing. Is Gunther a suspect now?

Do you know that Duane's heritage is German and French. His grandparents lived in the Catskills and - I think they were born overseas. His mothers maiden name was Beecher - born in Albany, N.Y.. His father was Claudian John Weber born in Cheveland, Ohio. His mother was 36 yrs old when he was born. I have never traced this - I just accepted I was told the truth. It never occured to me to ask his brother or sister for this information. I do not know the grandparents names on the Weber side nor on the Beecher side.

I have tried to scan some of the documents I have. but they are few and between. I succeeded with only one - I edited out names etc. I have never learned to scan documents - NOTE: I do not have orginals only carbon copies.

Snowmman : Here is the one thing that did come out ok tonight..it was short memo and I edited out most of the memo.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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Snowmman : Here is the one thing that did come out ok tonight..it was short memo and I edited out most of the memo.

I'm assuming that's Duane's block hand lettering on the letter? He must have scribbled notes on the copy after he mailed the original to whoever he was asking for record details?
Is that correct? Is something like this what you would say "matched" the "Toutle" marking on the map we've seen before?

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

I'd go by Ckret's version of the note myself, keep in mind that Cooper didn't let Tina keep it, he took it back. Any "testimony" on the note is going to come from the interview with Tina after the fact. How well would she have remembered details like that under those circumstances? I'm a little different, I've trained a bit to study for important details under stressful situations, but I think Tina would have been mostly thinking about how to keep Cooper from setting off the bomb.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

***Is something like this what you would say "matched" the "Toutle" marking on the map we've seen before?


All,

You have Jo’s typing sample and the “Toutle” notation (posted previously). I have the undisclosed notation in Gunther’s book that Jo feels Duane wrote at the same time he wrote “Toutle”. She also doesn’t want that notation made public. By way of honoring her request, I have pulled some of the letters from the text. Even though these are very small files, I understand I can only upload 10 per post. So I will upload them in two posts.

The file names are self-explanatory.

I think you will all agree that the “undisclosed notation” and the “Toutle” notation were made by the same person.

The Typing sample only has the words “Jan or Feb” and “yrs” (all else is numerals) so I pulled letters found in those words.

What do you think? Did Duane make the notations in the Gunther book?

Have fun,

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

More Letters

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Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

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I'd go by Ckret's version of the note myself, keep in mind that Cooper didn't let Tina keep it, he took it back. Any "testimony" on the note is going to come from the interview with Tina after the fact. How well would she have remembered details like that under those circumstances? I'm a little different, I've trained a bit to study for important details under stressful situations, but I think Tina would have been mostly thinking about how to keep Cooper from setting off the bomb.

whatever. Why are you making excuses for how little we know?

No matter what, there has to be some consensus truth that we say is "The Note". All we have is a casual comment from Ckret on the text. I had other questions. Sluggo noted that the stew notes describe the original note slightly differently.

So all I'm saying, is that Ckret could tell us more about the testimony about the note. Maybe the interview didn't cover more detail.

I don't know.

That's all I'm saying. Anyone who says they know more than Ckret's casual post on the text of the note, would be interesting to hear from.

(edit) For background on uncertainty even around the text:
Per Crew Notes #2:
Miss -
I have a bomb in my briefcase.
I want you to sit next to me.