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Jo wrote
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Just technolgy the Government did not want others to know about. One or several of these guys used that technology to pull off the skyjacking in 1971 and actually got away with the crime. NO trace of Cooper was found until 1980.



Jo,

You have zero evidence that any extraordinary technology was used by Cooper. ZEEEERO.

McCoy, Heady and others showed nothing special was needed.

Nobody would like Cooper to have used nav and comm gear more than I. But there isn't a shred of evidence that he did.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

Jo wrote

Quote

Just technolgy the Government did not want others to know about. One or several of these guys used that technology to pull off the skyjacking in 1971 and actually got away with the crime. NO trace of Cooper was found until 1980.



Jo,

You have zero evidence that any extraordinary technology was used by Copper. ZEEEERO.

McCoy, Heady and others showed nothing special was needed.

Nobody would like Cooper to have used nav and comm gear more than I do. But there isn't a shred of evidence that he did.

377


NOOOTTT exactly where I was going! And it was not Copper it was Cooper.:)
But a signal finder was used & it was mounted on the tower behind Air Park - but there was also 2 others.

Very much like the locators put on vehicles today.

If 3 towers emitted a signal and Cooper landed anywhere near any of those tower - he would be able to walk out. You think the technology was not available then - well, I know differently and the man who developed it had it stolen from him because this all started while he was part of something else - Government or private - your choice.

After he went home to WA he continued to work on this - since he worked in metal fabrications he had access to the material he needed.

He lived very modestly - perhaps considered somewhat of a hermit.

He did live & he did exist and he did do what I have told...exactly what it was or how it worked I do not know.

It is how Cooper knew which direction to go in to walk out.

You say it did NOT exist...NO it did not exist - This man's concept was stolen from him...and later capitalized by OTHERS. But the skyjacking proved it worked!

How do I know this? If I told you you would not believe it...but I actually had this discussion with Duane L. Weber....in 1979. The things I remembered have become acutely tuned lately & I do NOT know why other than I am at the end stage of my life & the realization it is now or never.

I told this story before but not as clearly as I tell it today...my memory bank was filled with so much mundane "stuff" that I just didn't let myself go back to the time of the trip...I remembered parts of what he said - but now almost every word Duane said to me - is coming thru loud and clear.

It took stumbling on some information I had forgot about to make all of the things he told me to make sense. The story was never fabricated and I am not channeling (what ever that is).

Just the entire day is as clear recently as it was on that day in 1979....I did NOT understand the things he told me - but when the memories all came together with his connections to AWARE - it all made sense and the memories have not stopped flooding - not yet.

This seems to happen in spurts - the clarity of the memory. If I didn't know better I would think this was impossible. How long have I been at this 18 yrs?

Why are certain things so very clear right now....I believe it was my finding out the woman I knew was the former Mrs. Ford. It was like everything became so crystal clear...I am not supposed to under stand it - I am just supposed to tell it...to tell what I do know.

I do NOT have to understand it - but I am supposed to tell it. Why me? Duane chose me - but why me? I can ask myself that all day long - but there is no answer. What triggered the memories that will not stop? I still think my finally realizing that Duane did indeed know the man - at the AIR Park was the trigger.

He told me all of these things for a reason - but, why me?
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo,

You present conjecture as fact. That undermines your credibility. Your claims about secret state of the art radiolocation technology being used in Norjack is nothing but wild speculation on your part.

Show us evidence if you wish to wipe the tarnish off your credibility.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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377

Jo,

You present conjecture as fact. That undermines your credibility. Your claims about secret state of the art radiolocation technology being used in Norjack is nothing but wild speculation on your part.

Show us evidence if you wish to wipe the tarnish off your credibility.

377



I cannot show you what I do not have.
I believe some how it had something to do with the CB in the Van - I did NOT understand what the man told me about that system...but it was unique and had an out-put range not needed for a vehicle on the highway.

I remembered the man saying not even truckers used equipment that advanced. What or if this was connected to 1971 - I know not. It is a part of Duane I have told about - I do not have to understand it...just tell what I know.

Duane sold the equipment before he died...I do not know who bought it and was not with him.

I am NOT worried about my credibility, bbecause I do not have to prove myself to anyone. I just have to tell what I know to the best of my knowledge and hope this OLD key board does not stop working.

I can no longer see the letters or numbers, but then I do not look at the them unless I need to find a punctuation mark not normally used.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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18C

***18C says in part:

Quote

'You are not only wrong, (Jo) your paranoia is quite disturbing!'

(About saying user '18C' is actually Galen Cook, who was previously banned from DZ for life)

***I believe you aren't Galen Cook for two reasons. First, if you WERE Cook, you would be found out sooner or later, and I don't think the real Cook would want to be viewed as dishonest, and come back (and then try denying he was Cook) after being perma-banned from Dropzone already. Two, the Google Map in your profile shows a location in New South Wales, Australia. So you must be from Australia. Or maybe it was just the random point and was not adjusted. But just in case you are from Down Under, nice place and welcome. I know an oceanographer currently working down in Tasmania on a research grant, and I have a friend doing college in Sydney. If you aren't from Australia, (and I'm not asking) I will take your word anyway that you aren't Galen Cook.



Tell me I didn't take your word under false pretenses.

It is time things here stopped being about me. You are correct that I am Australian, and I am definitively not who I'm being accused of being. So lets all move on...

Works for me. I appreciate it when someone goes directly on the record on an issue, especially this one. That's a big accusation, i.e. saying someone is a person who was previously banned from this website for life. I will take you at your word and yes, we should move on.

Cooper Stuff:

Until former FBI Cooper case agent Larry Carr gave his interview (it's at Wiki/DB Cooper), I always believed Himmelsbach's account that someone, somewhere, was screening US currency for years in an effort to find one of the ransom bills. Then...Carr comes along and says all the banks gave up within three to six months. Treasury is SUPPOSED to be looking, for years apparently, but then I contact them in 2010 and a very polite official at the Bureau of Printing and Engraving says no. So who is looking? A Portland, Oregon newspaper offered a reward to anyone finding one of the Cooper bills, but this was only offered for a short time (the paper printed up the Big List for its readers) and then withdrawn. This effort would not have reached that many people, anyway.

Now today...when old currency comes in to B and E for replacement or destruction, they very well might record all the serial numbers in any number of ways. For example, they run them through a counter that also scans the bills for integrity, readability, and the denomination. This process rejects the unreadables and suspected counterfeits. But back in 1972, it's doubtful such technology was available.

There is also the question of the destruction of the bills themselves. This is done at several Fed facilities, not just the B and E outlets in DC and Texas. For example, the NY Fed alone destroys about five million currency notes daily, while processing another 19 million notes for exchange or distribution, also daily.

Basically, the Cooper ransom was a single drop in the Niagara Falls of currency processing. The one best and single chance the Feds ever had to catch Cooper spending one of the bills was the initial search by the banks. After that ended, they never really had a chance. They should have paid him in hundreds, or in currency much older than 1971 perhaps. But they didn't have the time to do it in Seattle that day, and when the bank search failed it was basically safe to spend. After that, then you would have to keep an eye out for reports on anyone suspicious either depositing a large amount of cash, or spending a large amount and for this spending to be reported and the bills checked against the list by the cops. It's possible Cooper knew all of these things, too...and was very careful on how he laundered the cash.

In today's dollars, according to Inflation Calculator dot com, $200,000 in 1971 dollars is worth $1,040,000 today. If you kept that money hidden and were careful not to draw attention to yourself, (and no one was actually looking for the bills anymore against a list) you could spend it at your leisure.

Himmelsbach has also stated on several occasions that a big storm was going in the area between Portland and the primary jump zone. Historical weather data shows this was plainly not the case. I think Himmelsbach just got most things right and a few things wrong along the way. He was wrong about the bill search and the weather, and possibly his comments on Cooper's demeanor on board the plane. Everything else he says sounds reasonably solid.

EDIT: This might sound totally crazy, but I can think of one possible way to determine whether Cooper lived to spend the money or died.

If the Treasury Department or the Fed Reserve has kept computer records on the all the bills they've destroyed over the years, i.e. the actual serial numbers...you could dig up the old ransom list and compare it against this database to see if anything comes up. Perhaps they kept paper records of the numbers destroyed Way Back When, and if so...they may have digitalized these old records by now, as they have with military records. No telling how far these 'records of serial numbers destroyed' would go back, but you could take a shot at the database against the old ransom list and see what happens.


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377

I cannot show you what I do not have.

I believe some how it had something to do with the CB in the Van - I did NOT understand what the man told me about that system...but it was unique and had an out-put range not needed for a vehicle on the highway.

I remembered the man saying not even truckers used equipment that advanced. What or if this was connected to 1971 - I know not. It is a part of Duane I have told about - I do not have to understand it...just tell what I know.

Duane sold the equipment before he died...I do not know who bought it and was not with him.



I just remembered something about that CB. It had the regular thing you talk into - but inside of auto pocket was an item I one time asked Duane about - it was part of the CB. Sort of like a Walky Talky, but heavy. I do not remember what he said other than it was part of the CB. This was one of our long work trips out to Jasper, WY.

So could that piece have been a device used by another person to communciate with the vehicle...is or was there such a thing? I am merrily describing what I saw and what he said....at that time I did not ask to many questions - just accepted what I was told and not to judge.

Just asking because this was my first memory of that thing...and why now I know not. It was about the size 2 1/2 to 3 inches wide and probably 6 to 7 inches long. Best my memory can do, but do not hold me to the size.

I only saw it ONE time....and was told it was part of the CB. NO other explanation was offered and I did not ask....I thought it looked like a walkie talkie.

Duane was very picky about that system - and he didn't want me touching it....He transferred it from vehicle to vehicle...and finally sold it after he got a cell phone in 1990.

It was NOT on the van when I sold the van - it had been removed.

That is all I remember.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo wrote
Quote

I remembered the man saying not even truckers used equipment that advanced. What or if this was connected to 1971 - I know not. It is a part of Duane I have told about - I do not have to understand it...just tell what I know.



You tell much more than you know Jo and you present it as fact. I guess you see no harm in it. You present as a fact that devices were placed on three towers that were used by Cooper for navigation. That's NOT a fact.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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I didn't have a CB at the time of the hijacking in 1971, but I was a fan by the mid-70's and had a mobile Cobra unit and a couple of Midland hand-helds. So I can't say how much traffic was going over the air in 1971.

However, by the mid-70's traffic was VERY heavy on virtually all CB channels. If traffic was even close to that level in 1971, Cooper would have been noticed by other users simply from his transmissions. They would have tried talking to him just because he was THERE, even if they didn't know what he was about or what he was up to. It was just that way, everyone talking to everyone. And triangulating someone was a hobby for many CB users when they really became popular. For example, when I first got CB I was kind of stupid (yes) on some of the smart-ass things I would say on the air. (I quickly learned some manners and protocol, LOL)

Once, I got tracked in less than ten minutes and a guy pulled up at the 7-11 where I was parked making my dumb jokes...and he simply reached out and bent over my antenna and then drove away. B|

I think if Cooper would have used CB, and traffic in 1971 was heavy, there would have been multiple reports about it from other CB'rs PDQ. There's also the question of range on a handheld unit. My old Midland was a really good five-watt radio. Farthest I ever got out on it was maybe 15-20 miles max from sea level and that was only to a base unit, not another handheld, where range would be less.



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377

Jo wrote

Quote

I remembered the man saying not even truckers used equipment that advanced. What or if this was connected to 1971 - I know not. It is a part of Duane I have told about - I do not have to understand it...just tell what I know.



You tell much more than you know Jo and you present it as fact. I guess you see no harm in it. You present as a fact that devices were placed on three towers that were used by Cooper for navigation. That's NOT a fact.

377



I do not present it as fact regarding the CB. I have insisted the CB was different and it was - per the man who worked on it in our area.

The man was the one who did NOT understand why Duane needed a CB with the range on it that one had - and he was the only CB service just off of the Interstate - he got all of the truckers.

I had never met this man as he usually mailed in his annual check, but we had not been able to reach him. I was a field agent & the office asked me to call on him. I reminded him he had worked on my husbands CB and he remembered it well as I have stated above.

He told me this after asking what Duane did for a living. I told him we used to live in CO and we sold insurance and often had long trips up into N. Wy and maybe that was why we needed the range. I do not remember if I mention the plane coming in, but he said something about planes.

This was before Duane died and before I understood the things he spoke about. My boss told me he could not continue to cover for me because of Duane's illness as he had been in the hospital for several days. Under the circumstance the company let me keep Duane's insurance they provided as spousal coverage - Duane died 2 wks later.

I did tell Duane about collecting from the guy his annual premium and it was the man who had worked on his CB.

A couple of yrs after Duane died I tried to find the man. The shop was closed and it does seem I got in touch with him by phone, but he was going to treatment and later when I could not touch base with him found out he also had died.

I know I can't prove what I say, but yrs ago I offered to take a lie detector test & even offered to have pendilithium used on me - the FBI obviously saw NO reason to do so.

Seems like after I went public they would have leaped onto that, but they didn't.

I presented FACTS as I know them and that is what was said and what happened - I have admitted I have NO way to prove Duane was Cooper and that all I have is and was the people who knew him and what he told and showed to me. His confess is all I really need - just sorry I did NOT understand what he was talking about.



I have been as truthful about this as anyone could...I have remembered data many could not remember and I have taken on the naysayers.

Just Dumb Ole Stupid Woman - why didn't I go buy my husband a recorder when he asked for one before he went to the hospital.
.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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377

Jo,speculation on your part.

Show us evidence if you wish to wipe the tarnish off your credibility.

377



There is NO tarnish on my credibility as I have told what I know to the best of my knowledge. If the FBI refuses to check out the Fords and their back groundd and the background of the people they knew - then shame on them.

Shame on the Government for the secrets they keep - the guys still alive from Area 51 thought the government was going to let the truths be known - but instead after the man who fought so hard for the release of info died...the government made a scam out of it - they flossed it over by stating things everyone already knew, but did not give the freedom to those left to speak about what they did in that place and why they think they did it.

It was too little too late and now there is no one left in a government position who gives rats ass. The new politians do NOT know the past and they could care less - and they have so much baggage of their own - to borrow the baggage of the past would be political suicide.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Jo,

When I cross examine you about your statement that devices placed on three towers were used by Cooper for navigation you dodge and weave and try to divert attention away from the alleged tower devices over to Duane's souped up CB. His CB was at best just a radio transceiver. It had nothing to do with navigation

It doesn't work Jo. Just admit that the tower devices are speculation and we will let it be. If you present those tower devices as a fact it DOES undermine your credibility as it calls into question whether you have support for any other claims that you have made.

When you make claims YOU have the burden of proof. You dodge that too. Your insistence that Duane was part of Norjack because you say so and the FBI can't prove he wasn't is absurd. The FBI's bungling about Duane's prison records doesn't link Duane to Norjack.

You can't put Duane in the plane or even in a parachute. You flip flop between tagging him as the jumper or the ground man.

Give us just ONE iota of unequivocal EVIDENCE that supports your claim about Duane's alleged connection to Norjack. Just one. You can't. All you have is speculation. Nothing more.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo says in part:

Quote


'His confess is all I really need - just sorry I did NOT understand what he was talking about.'



There is another possible confession out there, of course:

Kenny Christiansen to his brother Lyle in 1994:

Quote

'There is something you should know, but I cannot tell you...'



So what was the Big Deal Thing that Kenny couldn't tell his brother? That he was gay? Nope. Everyone knew that from the time Kenny was about 16 onward, although according to his nephew Bruce Christiansen, as well as Lyle, you wouldn't know that just from speaking to him. I already figured that out anyway. If Kenny was the effeminate type, he never would have gotten past the Army recruiter in 1944, and if he was a 'poof,' he wouldn't have been one of the 78 guys to graduate paratrooper training out of around 270 or so in his training unit.

Was it the approximately $200,000 in savings and checking accounts waiting for Lyle at the West One Bank in Sumner, WA? Nope. Lyle already knew about all of that. He was the executor of the will.

If this so-called confession meant Kenny wanted to tell his brother he was Cooper, this is a definite 'maybe'. The question I asked myself was WHY he couldn't tell Lyle. And then it finally came to me on the best possible reason he couldn't: Because there were other people involved and one of them he really liked and respected, i.e. Margaret Geestman. In fact, Kenny liked Margie so much that he made a difficult drive while he was in much pain from Bonney Lake all the way to Twisp to see her just before he died. In fact, it was the last time he ever drove a car any distance because soon afterward he was confined to bed at his house.

Make no mistake. Kenny Christiansen did not die what most people would consider a 'good' death. He had an aggressive form of colon cancer and suffered terribly. He had to be washed and cleaned, hand-fed, close 'personal' care, etc and much of this care was done by hospice workers who visited his home, or occasionally by Carolyn Tyner. Lyle Christiansen finally made it out to Bonney Lake from his home in Morris, MN and a couple of days later Kenny was dead.

It's certainly not proven that Kenny Christiansen was the hijacker by any means. But I can tell you there are people working on finding out right now, and most of them are family members of the alleged accomplice, Bernie Geestman. I don't think Kenny cared much for Bernie in his later years, but he was good buddies with Margie right up until the day he died, and he wasn't going to say anything to anybody that could get her into trouble for something they were all involved in thirty-some years previously.

But looking back at my own investigation now, I should have known what was going on. I had both Margie and her ex-husband Bernie pointing to each other as being involved in the hijacking. You have to give it to Margie though. She did six straight interviews with me where she protected Kenny as best she could. It wasn't until her final interview, when she was presented with the testimony from her friend Helen Jones that she finally admitted something. She said that no, it wasn't 'someone else' who had gone missing that week with her husband. It was Kenny Christiansen.

Any way you look at it with these two, that is friendship all the way. :)


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There is another possibility Robert. The possibility that Kenny never said "There is something you should know, but I can't tell you". The possibility that Lyle is just plain full of shit. All of this investigating and there still is not one single piece of solid evidence that links Kenny to Norjack. None.
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

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377

Jo,

When I cross examine you about your statement that devices placed on three towers were used by Cooper for navigation you dodge and weave and try to divert attention away from the alleged tower devices over to Duane's souped up CB. His CB was at best just a radio transceiver. It had nothing to do with navigation



You do UNDERSTAND I know nothing about these kinds of things - I just tell what Duane said and I do not know the technical aspects of these thing you question.

I have to explore any possibility of these things existing and from the little Duane did tell me in 1979 about these things.

I do NOT know how the CB comes into all of this - but it was more than just a normal CB from what I understood and what I personally witnesses.



Quote

Just admit that the tower devices are speculation and we will let it be. If you present those tower devices as a fact it DOES undermine your credibility as it calls into question whether you have support for any other claims that you have made.



What I know about tower devices is the statement Duane made that he put something on that specific tower at one time and at the same time he told me about the Air Park owner. He knew the man and he knew his wife.

The pyramid things comes from something he said about signal towers - I assume they were microwave tower, but do NOT know what kind of towers they actually were....You guys find that out - I do not know and do not have the sources to know. I just listened and I did NOT ask a lot of question...I was just soaking this area he seemed to know SO much about and I had never been there before. It was OBVIOUS he had spent sometime in the area and that would be AFTER those towers were built for what ever reason they existed.

Remember he also took me to the VOR and told me what it did and he mentioned having worked there with the GUYS.

He also talked about the parallel power lines at every point....do you not think that odd. TOO much he pointed out - that all connect to the details needed to put the skyjacking off - I would not be aware of this until I started to explore this with you guys here in this thread....and I would be the one who would start the conversation and you guys like myself thought it was odd that these are probable factors that only someone who lived and worked in the area would know.

Quote


You can't put Duane in the plane or even in a parachute. You flip flop between tagging him as the jumper or the ground man.



Yes, I have, but no one would hear me. The brother had a message from Tosaw - and that message put Duane in a chute.
The things Duane told me put him in a chute. Doesn't mean he had extensive experience, but he had did know the basics...remember he talked about Paperlegs Peterson and any one around Paperleg and the group related to IN PLANE SITE would have been heavily connected to other who jumped. Some of the guys with AWARE had been jumpers.

Quote

Give us just ONE iota of unequivocal EVIDENCE that supports your claim about Duane's alleged connection to Norjack. Just one. You can't. All you have is speculation. Nothing more.



Yes I have - his connections to Paperlegs and to the man at AIR PARK and Area 51. Some of them would go to a place above Area 51 and they jumped - near a lake in a desert. He was specific about that ....I just didn't connect something like that to D.B.Cooper.

He mention there used to be lots of Rock there - but all I saw was what I considered desert. The man who was a jumper lived near there and I expect now that man could connected to AWARE and Area 51.

Yrs. ago I did know the name, but now it is lost in all of the stuff I have been thru for 18 yrs. The man was Indian.

Duane also was exposed to jumper - the Nickles while he was on the run - he was the boy he told about Knowing who did their errand for them - they could not go to the resturants - so the used the BOY.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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ParrotheadVol

There is another possibility Robert. The possibility that Kenny never said "There is something you should know, but I can't tell you". The possibility that Lyle is just plain full of shit. All of this investigating and there still is not one single piece of solid evidence that links Kenny to Norjack. None.



That is your opinion, of course. If you really believe that there is absolutely no evidence, you just haven't been paying attention, or you failed to download the original version of the KC report when it was available. When Geestman's family received the updated version with its expanded information, they decided they wanted to know the truth as much as anyone else. I was surprised to discover that they had been following everything Kenny-related since January 2011, when the Decoded episode on Kenny first aired. That's why they finally contacted me and why we did two interviews, with a third upcoming.

The problem with this whole scenario is that talking about Kenny, or the current investigation into he and the Geestmans' often brings out the worst in Cooperland. For example, hitting the spam button in anger and making someone's posts disappear. Or...calling up a perfectly nice guy who runs NWA History and failing to tell him his comments will be posted to the internet and make him look foolish for going on television. That was Georger. He used Bruce Kitt, plain and simple, in an attempt to make me look bad personally. Fine. Look where he is now.

You guys want to know everything about what we're doing investigating KC. But there are penalties involved because some of you will go to any lengths to discredit, even if it involves lying or hurting others who have nothing to do with that investigation.

Trust me on this or not, but let me assure you of something. We WILL discover the truth on KC and Geestman one way or another. Of that you can be certain. And when we find out for sure, I will be the first to let you know. But I'm not going to provide the means for others to simply trash us or vindictively go after witnesses not because they're interested in the truth...but because they have a hate-axe to grind. Seen that. Done that. Not happening. :)
Maybe we should stop discussing Kenny for a while and move on to something else. It isn't doing any good and I have nothing further to say about it right now anyway.


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"...Some of them would go to a place above Area 51 and they jumped - near a lake in a desert. He was specific about that ....I just didn't connect something like that to D.B.Cooper.

He mention there used to be lots of Rock there - but all I saw was what I considered desert. The man who was a jumper lived near there and I expect now that man could connected to AWARE and Area 51..."





Ah, Groom Lake.

Tell me, Mrs. Cooper, did Duane has nightmares about owls?

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Blevins says:

"You guys want to know everything about what we're doing investigating KC. But there are penalties involved because some of you will go to any lengths to discredit, even if it involves lying or hurting others who have nothing to do with that investigation. "

Don't include me in "you guys". I have never asked about your current investigation and I have absolutely no axe to grind. I have downloaded the original pdf and saw nothing that ties Kenny to Norjack. It basically says that Kenny is unaccounted for on that weekend, so he must have been hijacking a plane.

You say you will discover the truth. My question is will you recognize it when you find it?
"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider

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BruceSmith

Quote

"...Some of them would go to a place above Area 51 and they jumped - near a lake in a desert. He was specific about that ....I just didn't connect something like that to D.B.Cooper.

He mention there used to be lots of Rock there - but all I saw was what I considered desert. The man who was a jumper lived near there and I expect now that man could connected to AWARE and Area 51..."





Ah, Groom Lake.

Tell me, Mrs. Cooper, did Duane has nightmares about owls?



Perhaps Jo will also tell us how Duane liked the swimming and fishing in Groom Lake? Did Duane and his friends have beach houses there? Who were their neighbors?

Robert99

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ParrotheadVol

Blevins says:

"You guys want to know everything about what we're doing investigating KC. But there are penalties involved because some of you will go to any lengths to discredit, even if it involves lying or hurting others who have nothing to do with that investigation. "

Don't include me in "you guys". I have never asked about your current investigation and I have absolutely no axe to grind. I have downloaded the original pdf and saw nothing that ties Kenny to Norjack. It basically says that Kenny is unaccounted for on that weekend, so he must have been hijacking a plane.

You say you will discover the truth. My question is will you recognize it when you find it?



Well, I certainly hope so. Look...I'm no different from anyone else who has seriously investigated a suspect. When you reach a certain point, and have invested a certain amount of time and effort, I think you get to where the only thing that matters is the truth one way or another. Frankly, the rest is BS. Otherwise, why waste additional time and effort on it?

Sometimes I read these things about 'it's the book' or 'he just wants to make money on the screenplay,' and general comments like that. Hell, I make more money on a full-package book edit than I do on Cooper in a year. That's no kidding. I put a complete freeze on any additional work on the screenplay because I realized it was no good without a solid ending regarding KC. Either he was Cooper or he wasn't, and for the life of me I haven't (yet) been able to determine the truth of it. And that's about as honest a statement as I can make on the whole thing.

I've tried everything else, but after more than forty years since these events unfolded, I'm left with turning everything we have over to Geestman's family. Let's see what THEY do with it, that's my best idea now. I mean they now have EVERYTHING and I have spent hours going over the printed version with them in a restaurant, explaining what this means, or that, until they had a good picture of what my theory is on KC and their Uncle Bernie, and his former wife.

My last contact with them was a couple of weeks ago, and from one of the family members who I consider a 'main' witness because this person was at the Jones place for Thanksgiving that week. You see, until I met with them the first time, I didn't realize that there were other people at that dinner besides Margie Geestman, Mrs. Jones, and Jones' daughter, although I should have known that I suppose. Nobody had told me this in previous interviews.

These people are a bit tricky to work with. They've seen posts at Dropzone, they've seen the Gray book, mine, the Gray article even. But they didn't see any of those things until AFTER they first saw the Decoded program in 2011. Bernie, apparently...didn't bother to tell anyone he was going to be on television. Some of them saw the show by accident, and then called around to other family members and said: "Hey, did you see Bernie on Decoded?"

That's when they started following everything. This 'main' witness told me they tried calling Bernie and talking to him about his appearance but he wouldn't talk to them on the phone. But then...some of them were aware of the fact that Bernie and Kenny went missing on Thanksgiving and that Margie was highly pissed off about it. So...like me...they wondered why Bernie shoved Kenny under the bus and said he could be Cooper when they knew the two men were together that week.

So at that point they started secretly following everything they found on the internet. They've lurked at DZ they've said, "Yeah, we've seen some of the things they say about you there..." one said. That's why they finally decided to get hold of me in person. I told them if they would agree to meet for an interview, I would provide them with a printed version of a 53-page doc that had all available information on this situation, and they could do what they wished with it.

Well, here we are about six weeks later and I figure that sooner or later the truth will come out. You can't keep a secret like that in a family forever, although I get the idea that Bernie up in Port Angeles and the rest of his family are not exactly close. I also think they know the truth of the whole matter, but they might be afraid to come forward. This witness I mentioned has told me, "We would rather wait until he (Bernie) is gone." (died) My response was that unless they were sure, and could provide absolute proof of Bernie's involvement, (after he was gone) that they should not wait, but come forward anyway. So meanwhile...they are talking about it, going over the document. They want to meet with both Helen Jones and Mrs. Geestman. They know where Jones is, and I gave them the contact info on Mrs. Geestman's best friend in Winthrop, who may know where she is now. I also told them that if they decided to come forward they didn't have to call me first. They could just call up the Seattle Times or something. I try not to pressure them too much because doing Family Affair stuff, especially on a subject so large, is a bit tricky. But I figure I've given them enough so they will be able get to the truth. And I guess that's the main thing, isn't it? I'm scheduling another interview with them at one of their homes with several of the family members at the same time. This time we put it on video. Hopefully, they will have some news for me. Either they were...or they weren't...only Kenny's hairdresser knows for sure. :)


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In the interest of discussing something non-Kenny, let's address this Area 51 claim.

First off, no one does chute jumps at Groom Lake unless they are hitting the ejection lever on a test flight. I think we can agree that the original idea behind Groom Lake was a secure facility to develop and test new aircraft technology.

Second, you can't get within miles of that place unless you are supposed to be there. And anyone who was assigned there had to take a secrecy oath and sign their lives away if they say anything about their work or activities there. They are also put through the most intense background check you can imagine. Most of the people who work there, or HAVE worked there, were approached by representatives of the US government. In other words, Groom Lake doesn't have a recruiting office where you walk in and volunteer.

Third, there has been some limited testimony from actual, verified people who really worked there. The most common thing they say is that most of the people there were on a need to know basis, and didn't know what anyone else was doing unless that person was on their work team. It is, and was...very compartmentalized. The idea that Duane Weber somehow knew people who jumped Groom Lake (which implies these people were under the strictest secrecy conditions) is just not real. Area 51, in many ways, has more security and secrecy going than a nuclear launch site. (Even ranchers in North Dakota knew where the silos were and what they were about, and to a limited extent, what went on down there in those silos.) Leslie Stahl and 60 Minutes even toured one for television. And the Air Force has provided other tours of nuke launch facilities to other news organizations. Let those same organizations ask for one down at Groom Lake and see what happens. ;)

Area 51? Forget it. You're not getting close to that place, and if you talk about it in anything but a general way, and get caught, off to Leavenworth you go in a quick-fast New York hurry.

*On the alleged Roswell 'alien' angle: Don't look at Area 51 for that. They probably took the bodies and the wreckage to Wright-Patterson AFB. Perhaps only the results of studying the alien tech ended up being used at Area 51. But I doubt they stored the bodies or the wreckage there. You know how it is. Moving everything a second time would have been tougher to keep secret than the first time in 1947. And Groom Lake wasn't really established until the CIA did it in 1955 to develop the U-2. :)

*The above statement is partially humor, and is not intended to imply the author actually believes that aliens crashed near Corona, NM in 1947.* B|



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Danielle1010

I think you left dropzone because you don't like me anymore why didn't you tell me you were leaving because of this I'm gonna jump off the Tacoma narrows bridge



Come on, Andy. Of course I like you. I have stuck up for you here at Dropzone lots of times. You can reach me anytime at adventurebooksofseattle AT G Mail. You know that. Besides, I never left Dropzone anyway. I was GOING to take a break, but then Bernie Geestman's family contacted me and I've been pretty busy ever since.

Saying those things is just going to make people be sort of hard on both of us. If you are really considering this stuff, you should talk to your folks about it.

Jumping off a bridge because of me would be a waste of effort. Who am I anyway? Just some old guy who edits and writes books sometimes. I'm definitely not worth anything like that. :)
I will have some free books mailed out to you from our print provider. Maybe you just need some good reading. Come to think of it, I will send you a message right now. I will give you a selection of books and what they are about. You pick two of them and send your mailing address. Use your email. Don't post your personal information here at Dropzone.

And please...don't say that other stuff anymore. You really should take that back so people don't worry about you.

Check your email box...the Andy at Gmail box etc. :)I even told you a big secret about one of the books that no one else knows outside of our staff. (Not the Cooper book, another one)


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Quote

"...Perhaps Jo will also tell us how Duane liked the swimming and fishing in Groom Lake? Did Duane and his friends have beach houses there? Who were their neighbors?

Robert99




I understand the sunsets over Groom Lake are outstanding. Definitely Miller Time.

A tad dusty, though. But the fishing's great as long as you use sand flies.

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BruceSmith

Quote

"...Perhaps Jo will also tell us how Duane liked the swimming and fishing in Groom Lake? Did Duane and his friends have beach houses there? Who were their neighbors?

Robert99




I understand the sunsets over Groom Lake are outstanding. Definitely Miller Time.

A tad dusty, though.


There are the signs, the cameras, the patrols, the ground sensors, and ready-to-go aerial recon and interception stuff there. No one gets within 25 miles of that place unless they are authorized, or have a death wish. :|

Tell you what though. I wouldn't mind having one of the Highway 395 signs that lead to the place. They say 'Extraterrestrial Highway' on them. Too cool.

I've done a lot of driving in Nevada over the years. Like on the way to Eureka, Nevada...there is this vast open white desert plain that goes out forever. Makes the Bonneville Salt Flats look like peanuts. So...I drive out there a couple of miles and actually go camping. Why? Because you can do long-distance target shooting that is so ridiculous you have to use your truck to go and check the targets you just fired at. LOL...too far to walk out and check. This is where you really discover the effective range of any scoped weapon. You can do Quigley Down Under stuff for sure out there. Just aim HIGH. :)

EDIT: It's been many years since I went to that area. So...I check Google Maps. It's only about seven or eight miles across, not 'forever' or 'bigger than Bonneville Flats'. I guess it just seemed like it was bigger when I was there. It's also a wildlife refuge now so probably no more shooting anyway. Just search on 'Churchill County, NV' on Google Maps to see the place. It's near Fallon, I think. :$


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