DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: Guess what I Have. You forget I have access to Info you do not and you can stop this argument of your's . Bottom line you will loose Jerry

[BobKnoss 0]

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I Have given all of you clue's to research. Jerry

I KNOW! I KNOW! JERRY, I KNOW! Ask me, Jerry. Ask me! I KNOW! I heard the conversation and wrote it down! Is that evidence, Jerry? I still have it on paper and heard it with my own ears. No hear-say. I GOT YOUR ANSWERS, JERRY!! ASK ME???

[JerryThomas 0]

Bob:Go to sleep you have nothing to offer in this investigation. All you offer is BS.Better yet just call Jo Weber and let her tell you the same. Jerry

[georger 199]

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Robert99: Slugo's web Page. Why is that FBI documents. No it is not . Post actuall FBI proof. You can not. Jerry

Jerry, Those documents are FBI generated and released by the FBI. You seem to be forgetting that the FBI was not involved in the negotiations with the hijacker or the flight planning for the flight from Seattle to Reno. Check Ralph H.'s written statements on this.

We know the PI transcript has been sanitised - is
incomplete. I dont think you can take anything
Cooper said, or is supposed to have said, in
isolation as perfect evidence which defines Cooper
and his street address, as it were. Otherwise, you
could take "no accent" as proof Cooper was a space
alien - since all other creatures who have language
that we know of are confinded to Earth and have
accents, relative to each other!

He definatey had some general technical knowledge,
or thought he did, as it applied to parachuting and
aerodynamics in general. But his instructions are
general and even arcane in several instances; front
pack vs back pack. He does not specify any specific
route out of SEA south. He does not specify a
particular (kind of) parachute and he brought none
of his own. He makes quite a point of saying the
plane cannot land anywhere in the USA but never
suggests a quick northern route into Canada - his
route is south bound. He accepts and does not over-
rule Rataczak's stipulation regarding the stairs. If
the stairs being out are vital to some important goal
he has about bailing immediately after takeoff near
Seattle then he almost meekly lets that opportunity
vanish - he could have over-ruled Rataczak.

If anything it sounds as if Cooper have no real plan!

And if weather and visibility were an issue for him
he waits and bails much further south.

He doesnt even sound to me like he has a strong
military disposition, marked by discipline with every
t cross and i dotted.

There are just too many contradictions. The only
specific is his choice to rob a bank and a corporation
by hijacking an airplane and bailing into the
wilderness - during weather which will obscure a
clear clean search?

If there was something clearcut which would define
Cooper, such as not looking Mongolian, then it
would have been seen a long time ago - easily.
"No funny business or I'll do the job - cannot land
anywhere in the USA", does not make him third
chair oboe in the NY Philharmonic under Leonard
Bernstein, 1963 November, playing Mahler's 4th,
televised by CBS, narrated by Walter Chronkite!
Whatshisnamen.

[Robert99 38]

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Robert99: Guess what I Have. You forget I have access to Info you do not and you can stop this argument of your's . Bottom line you will loose Jerry

Jerry, You have been claiming for years that you have access to information that no one else has access to. Yet you have never produced a single piece of meaningful information. In fact, you apparently are not even aware of the public information on the Cooper hijacking, including information from Ralph H.

The bottom line is that it's time for you to back up your claims and get up to date on the public information.

[skyjack71 0]

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Personally, I don't think a "rational person" would attempt the hijacking under the existing conditions in the first place. This does not mean that Cooper was stark raving mad. But he apparently did take leave of some of his senses on that particular day.

Now, you guys are profiling and didn't even know it. I have not read all of the pages, but a couple of you are finally seeing this thru the eyes of a profiler and not as someone wanting to create a HERO out of what Cooper did.. Finally someone is looking and listening to what Cooper DID NOT DO.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

My reading is that Cooper had a fair idea what could be done, but not how to do it.

I'm wondering now about the loadmaster angle. Wouldn't a loadmaster have been responsible for opening the door as well? So that is perhaps an argument against a loadmaster. (I have quite liked the loadmaster theory until now.)

Re Mexico....well, for heavens sake no hijacker is going to say "I plan to jump over X, please drop me there" right? Get the plane as far away, give the FBI a much larger potential search area to maximize your chances of not being found. This thinking kind of argues against the fact that Cooper knew there would be a pressure bump on exit. (or if he did that he 'faked' it earlier than he jumped). Aw nuts.... This is like trying to analyze an economy with 2 single unrelated data points

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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Aw nuts.... This is like trying to analyze an economy with 2 single unrelated data points

I do not usually reply to your posts but this one got a chuckle out of me tonight!

This reflects my thinking and why I am doing the "Sentimental Journey" and because I think there is something important about the trip. As I stated: I am tired and - "it end when we get to Tahoe".

Was going to do another segment tonight, but needed to find "The Bridge of the Gods" on a map. Out of all of the maps I have acquired - would you believe the Bridge of the Gods is NOT on any of them?

I felt I had forgotten something before we crossed the bridge - my memories from 1979 had NOT accounted for time and space and couldn't figure out where we crossed the river to the WA. side.

Duane had spoke about a Beach and another airport off in a distance after leaving The Dalles and my memory seemed to want to go in reverse. He had mentioned a beach the guys used to go to and he had mentioned Yakima and the airstrip and the Indians prior to our crossing the bridge.

Sorry the post was so long and the REST of the Sentimental Journey will be just as long. I need to finish this - it just won't be tonight.

Tahoe is the end of the journey. If no one see what I see then it is over.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 199]

Re Mexico....well, for heavens sake no hijacker is going to say "I plan to jump over X, please drop me there" right? Get the plane as far away, give the FBI a much larger potential search area to maximize your chances of not being found. This thinking kind of argues against the fact that Cooper knew there would be a pressure bump on exit. (or if he did that he 'faked' it earlier than he jumped). Aw nuts.... This is like trying to analyze an economy with 2 single unrelated data points

Orange, I think you raise a very good point.
Cooper was unaware of the possibility of a pressure
signature, that would signify when and where he
jumped ? (with all his expertise, or lack of same).

[BobKnoss 0]

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Bob:Go to sleep you have nothing to offer in this investigation. All you offer is BS.Better yet just call Jo Weber and let her tell you the same. Jerry

I have nothing to offer a whitewash, but I can offer honest answers to the questions you pose. I know what the original plan was, the exact words used in the planning, and you can evaluate whether or not that was what they actually did. Of course, if your objective is to steer suspicion in an obscure direction, then you probably don't want to hear anything that really happened relative to this case.

Jo Weber has an agenda that is clear as a bell, but I don't agree with her decision. "The children" is no excuse to lie about what happened. Evidence is so tampered with that no arrests can ever be made. It all comes down to the question of Presidential authority vs. actual letter of the law. Does executing a "dummy plan" for persuasive purposes with no harm intended constitute an actual crime? Or is it just a "dirty trick"? Does tricking the World into signing on to our current airline safety procedures constitute an International Intelligence Secret? How long is a secret necessary to keep? How many other secrets are there that the Oversight Committee did not review? How much freedom do the agencies of the Government really have? Who is protecting what here? Where is the rule of law? Who gets the right to decide these high level decisions? Jo Weber? Ha-ha-ha! Give me a break! It is a catch 22. The old way of doing business the J Edgar way, or the Tea Party way where we actually hang 'em by the nuts until they tell the truth?

Yah, I understand you don't want to hear my point of view in an open forum, but you brought it here. It's not about Duane, or Kenny, or whether or not you guys are really an organized crew under Cap. That's a given. The question is why even try to fight over spilled milk. It happened, it can't be resolved by the FBI anymore as the old guys have messed it up so bad the young guns can't straighten it out? There are a few of us that have put it all together and try to do the right thing. It is only fair that both sides of the story be told, not just HALF the story. The country will survive. We need to know that we can control these power grabs by a few and govern by the people as it was originally intended. I see you all as subversives to the rule of law. Now, you can he-haw your snide remarks on that one. It's not fantasy land, it's political realism. It is amazing what 20-20 hindsight can do for seeing the fabrications on this whole episode of comedy.

Jerry really knows everything. This is no tabletop sandbox for discussing intelligence? Then WHY THE HELL DO YOU DO IT?
We can see the lies. They stand out like gaping holes in the road of what really was. Impossible to repave over your bomb craters.

[1969912 0]

Jo, the bridge was built in the mid-20's, so it will be on your maps. Just find Stevenson, WA, and you'll be really close. It is actually at Cascade Locks.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.662424,-121.901276&spn=0.3,0.3&t=m&q=45.662424,-121.901276

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Amazon 7]

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Jo, the bridge was built in the mid-20's, so it will be on your maps. Just find Stevenson, WA, and you'll be really close. It is actually at Cascade Locks.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=45.662424,-121.901276&spn=0.3,0.3&t=m&q=45.662424,-121.901276

I thought that place sounded familiar. It's right near Beacon Rock, the spot where the infamous 'Washington Bluebeard' Randy Roth *allegedly* shoved his second wife to her death for the $180,000 in life insurance.

He actually got away with that one, but he tried the same scam (for more than twice the money) a second time and got caught...

Roth is/was a serious creepoid without any conscience or morals. It was a tough job for the prosecutors. They finally got a first degree murder conviction without a body to process, or any eyewitness testimony to the crime itself. I hope they NEVER let him out of jail. You would not believe how many lives he ruined.

I've heard that there is now a fence along the trail that leads to the top of Beacon Rock. Too late for Janis Roth, of course.

Here is an interesting factoid for you.... I caught a scorpion on Beacon Rock one summer near the top of the trail.( yes I took it home for a friends terrarium) It was "catching some rays" and it is just not a critter I am used to running across that far west here in Washington. The other side of the state... or over on the Deschutes... yeah.. but not that far west in the Columbia River Gorge.

[1969912 0]

I went to the top of Beacon Rock in 1980 or so, and it had railings. The guy who put up the ramps and rails had purchased the rock for $1 in 1915. Pretty spectacular views, and well worth the time if you're in the area.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[skyjack71 0]

Does anyone know how to get pictures of each side of the Bridge of the Gods and the Hood Bridge.

I am not in Tahoe and a long way from it, but I was listening to some music and preparing my dinner. I remembered something about Tahoe. Something I am not sure I told in the past.

Someone here helped me establish which place Englebert was playing at the last wk or so of Sept - the old brain is NOT allowing me to remember which one....Sahara or Ohara? Not important, but what is important is this:

Duane deposited me in a place toward a wing of the Casino and told me to wait there ( this is the place the Humperdinck sign was located about his performance that night).

Duane was gone quiet awhile and I walked down toward the entrance he went into. There was a sign there - in this narrow hall. The sign said something like Private Entrance (it was some kind of sign that indicated no one was allowed past that point without permission). I remembered going back to the place Duane assigned to me and shortly thereafter he showed up. I wondered what or why he could have been in there, but he had told me he was going to see someone he knew.

I mentioned Humperdinck was playing there indicating the sign. He asked me if I wanted to go. and I mentioned the ticket would be too expensive. He turned around and went back to the same entrance and came back in less than 5 minutes with PRIME seats (it was like in and out). This was for that same night which was OUR last night in Tahoe.

Maybe it was an entrance to facility offices or maintenance? What-ever, he came back with tickets on the second row from the stage...not seats (a table).
If this was a maintence location as was suggested before - how the Hell did he get prime tickets?

I have always wished I had asked MORE questions - What I wouldn't give to know more about his life.

He flies in to small airports ( who and what was he and what did he do?) Even in 1979 - flying in to small airports indicated a REASON. Knew someone who owned a plane, was involved in a business, worked on the sites or in communications. Remember that in 1979 - I knew NOTHING about his past - as an ex-con - absolutely nothing.

Come on someone - think! What could Duane Weber have done that would have required or have been a reason to be in small plane that went into these small airports. Places like The Dalles, Yakima, Washougal and Redmond. Two of these he was specific - "WE flew in and out of" and those are The Dalles and Redmond. There are others, but will get to those in time. In reference to Yakima he indicated information about Indian Reservation and moving some equipment and the airstrip there. He used "we" in reference to Yakima. The reference to Redmond was on our way to Tahoe several days later.

He talked about Trout Lake - they used to go there - someone having a place there....didn't sound like work.

I did NOT ask questions and when I did Duane would swifly changed the subject as he was so skilled in doing.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[mrshutter45 21]

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"Does anyone know how to get pictures of each side of the Bridge of the Gods and the Hood Bridge"

here is some photo's Jo

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

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[MarkBennett 5]

Robert,

Interesting, but....

You may be right that Geestman is hiding something. It is also possible that he and KC were involved in some criminal activity -- but you lack anything that ties KC to the hijacking.

Also, for your story to be true, he has to get away safely with the money.

If you want to make a more compelling case, go back to his brother Lyle. Why did Lyle believe that his brother, who no criminal history, would have pulled off such a risky crime?

And, think of the FBI sketch. Maybe 50% of the public overall would see it, but I'll bet 90% of Northwest Orient employees would have -- several of whom would have seen Kenny. That would make it more likely somebody would say "Hey, I know that guy".

It could have been Kenny. But, what ties him to THIS crime?

[skyjack71 0]

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He flies in to small airports ( who and what was he and what did he do?) Even in 1979 - flying in to small airports indicated a REASON. Knew someone who owned a plane, was involved in a business, worked on the sites or in communications. Remember that in 1979 - I knew NOTHING about his past - as an ex-con - absolutely nothing.

Come on someone - think! What could Duane Weber have done that would have required or have been a reason to be in small plane that went into these small airports. Places like The Dalles, Yakima, Washougal and Redmond. Two of these he was specific - "WE flew in and out of" and those are The Dalles and Redmond. There are others, but will get to those in time. In reference to Yakima he indicated information about Indian Reservation and moving some equipment and the airstrip there. He used "we" in reference to Yakima. The reference to Redmond was on our way to Tahoe several days later.

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I still cannot find the Bridge of the Gods on the map. My memory plays back like a movie reel in my mind. After leaving The Dalles...I am just going to wing this - if I make a mistake I make a mistake.

Jerry Thomas has told me over and over Duane & I did not cross at the Bridge of the Gods. I will just tell it how I remember it.

Past the Dalles after Duane has mentioned the airport across the way, he mentions a beach, but I could see nothing I thought of as a beach - where the guys used to go. He did take a detour off of the road at this time and we went to a building, but I do not know what it was - it would be around the area of the Wasco Co. Mueseum, which I drove into in 2010, but it was different - perhaps because this time I was doing the driving and after having had a very bad accident in 2000 (2wks after I went public) - I was very nervous driving in an area I had no knowledge of....my memory says he took me a short way into this area.

I have not been able to remember the point at which he mentions a road that goes to Yakima (the moving of equipment, airport, Indian Reservation). He used a name I now know to be Klickitat. He talks about climbing and cliffs (at what point I do not remember). We are still on the Oregon side and he is pointing across the river. As we pass the road to Hood he talks about this area and knowing some guys there, but we are not going to go there. He mentions a Marina and again a beach - the "guys" went to. I ask questions but he evaded an answer and moves on to the next subject.

He actually mentions White Salmon by name and this is when he spoke about Trout Lake.
Someone had a place there or maybe it was a group camp he and the guys stayed at. He tells me that is part of the Gifford Pinchote National Forest.

Somewhere along this area is when he starts to talk about Hatcheries. Then we pull down into an area that was really beautiful....at this point we went to the restroom and he pointed out the river and the sail boats. It seemed like a resort area and I always thought this was the point he pointed across the water and mentioned cliff climbing. Jerry Thomas has told me NO way I was at the Bridge of the Gods and that NONE of this ever happened.

Even when I spoke to him yrs ago on this subject and even now he claims the Bridge of the Gods and the few buildings in the area looked NOTHING like I have described....he told me there was NO motel there and that there was no buildings. He has always made me doubt myself on this area and if his objective was to scramble my memories he did a job on me.

Wish I had had a camera on my trip to WA in 2010...but, my funds were limited and my carry on was very small so I could manage it alone. (I have a really bad back).

When we went to cross the bridge we passed a toll - it was very quaint. Jerry has told me there is NO community there, but I remembered buildings and a low fenced area over-looking the river. He claims there are NO building there....so who is right?

After crossing 'whatever' he mentions Carson and a road that connected to the other places he has already mentioned.

After we cross the river it seemed stark, but we drove on down to The Bonneville Dam. This is where Duane and I got out of the car and he talked about the Dam and again how things work.
When I was in WA in 2010 this area was exactly as I remember it...

Leaving that area we head into Washougal but, tells me at this there was really nothing to see on my side, but I did NOT go to sleep. I remember this huge hill which turns out to ba MT when I made my trip in 2010. Difference is the opposite way and I am doing the driving.

After the land levels out he makes a comment. "I must have misse my turn". I reach for the atlas and find the area called Cames thinking that was were we might be. He states out loud "no there is is - they 4 laned this since I was here". This turn was into WASHOUGAL.

In Washougal - he makes a left right after we crossed the Wahougal River (again a place JT argued did not exist).
When I was in WA in 2000 I had spent fruitless time with the documentary personnel and they never took me to this area...because JT said it did not exist.

Duane and I would then turn North and the after going thru what looked like pastures and dairy areas to me left on to the Ledbetter Rd. Duane points out the Mansion and take me to a place on this "river" which turned out to be a lake to a point were 3 cottages used to be.

Ok I am tired so I will try again. I can barely sit here more than a few moments at a time and I can hardly see the screen. My finger tips crack and bleed when I use the keyboard lately.

This all I can do for now. Hopefully tomorrow I will make it to Seattle.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[1969912 0]

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I still cannot find the Bridge of the Gods on the map. ..

See attached screenshot. The red bubble thing and the green arrow are both pointing at the bridge. Grab your map and find Stevenson, then follow WA Hwy14 till you hit the bridge. There are buildings in Cascade Locks. There are also a couple buildings along the loop called "Toll House Park" that leads to the bridge on the OR side (see second attachment). I think they are some kind of ranger or park service buildings. If you still cannot find the bridge on your maps, I have no further comment.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[JerryThomas 0]

Sorry: Was gone for a couple days. Jo, Your story has grown considerably over the past 17 yrs along with your discriptions of the area, in which Google has provided you a better picture for your story. Still you and I know where I stand in the subject of Duane and your story.Now Robert 99, Yes I do claim info most do not have access too, and for good reason. That is the reason I have access to Info most do not have. Unlike you when asked to not disclose certain info I do not. Trust is a virtue. Where is yours.Knoss your still talking out of the left side of a donkeys tail. Jerry

[Robert99 38]

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Sorry: Was gone for a couple days. Jo, Your story has grown considerably over the past 17 yrs along with your discriptions of the area, in which Google has provided you a better picture for your story. Still you and I know where I stand in the subject of Duane and your story.Now Robert 99, Yes I do claim info most do not have access too, and for good reason. That is the reason I have access to Info most do not have. Unlike you when asked to not disclose certain info I do not. Trust is a virtue. Where is yours.Knoss your still talking out of the left side of a donkeys tail. Jerry

Jerry, You need to get your meds adjusted. You are just blowing smoke again.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: Maybe you need to get hearing aids. Jerry

[Robert99 38]

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Robert99: Maybe you need to get hearing aids. Jerry

JT, And maybe you need to understand that you don't have any control over the Cooper investigation despite your attempts to represent yourself as the final authority on Cooper related matters.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99: You have consitantly suggested that you are the authority . Still you have nothing to contribute to this investigation and never will. You ignore personal accounts and attempt to make those that give you there accounts of the evening of the hijacking and try to make them look like fools with info you find on line. You care about one thing only and that is what your perception is. Yet you forget that there is Info you will never be able to access. Your expertise is important but not to the degree you have tried to put forth. Jerry

[matthewcline 0]

I want to hear, Read, your recollections.
I would like to read the whole story from start to finish, with out tangents, just a factual time line.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Robert99 38]

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Robert99: You have consitantly suggested that you are the authority . Still you have nothing to contribute to this investigation and never will. You ignore personal accounts and attempt to make those that give you there accounts of the evening of the hijacking and try to make them look like fools with info you find on line. You care about one thing only and that is what your perception is. Yet you forget that there is Info you will never be able to access. Your expertise is important but not to the degree you have tried to put forth. Jerry

JT, You need to catch up with what is being posted on Sluggo's Yahoo thread. One poster there, not me, is the one you want to address your frustrations to. Your claims that the actual weather was stormy will not stand up to his analysis. And especially not in the Columbia River Gorge.

If actual facts make someone look like a fool then so be it. At times, life can be a bitch.