5 5
quade

DB Cooper

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

I'm saying they had no reason to doubt the data they had in 71. they could of retraced the path with any plane that could fly with the same speed, altitude etc. 

true, but they may have lowered the rear stairs over he flightpath during some test.

 

The FBI statement was months after the placard find after they investigated it. They would have known if the plane didn't fly the flightpath and if they knew that the statement is not likely.

 

They stated it may have come off after the Cooper flight... it is far more likely they made that statement knowing the plane re-flew the flightpath.. it doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mrshutter45 said:

the map wasn't released until years after the placard find. someone would have to have knowledge of the path to pull off any kind prank like this..

The flightpath was easily known by late 1978,, the FBI search locations were known and locals could have easily figured it out. But I think it is a long shot.. the condition of the placard suggests it wasn't in the woods for 7 years.

 

1976...

1976flightpath.thumb.jpg.e60bfc2cbf1e550294d56362f286c537.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

I seriously doubt the placard was lose and hung on for days before coming off. nobody noticed a decal hanging on the stairs while dusting for prints? the statement was made 7 years after the fact. many knew, if not all the agents that a test was done. if they didn't read the files they wouldn't know the test was done over the ocean. time passes and history changes with memory. 

Edited by mrshutter45

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

I seriously doubt the placard was lose and hung on for days before coming off. nobody noticed a decal hanging on the stairs while dusting for prints? the statement was made 7 years after the fact. many knew, if not all the agents that a test was done. if they didn't read the files they wouldn't know the test was done over the ocean. time passes the history changes with memory. 

Placard doesn't have to be loose for days.. it could have been dislodged during the test or rigging for it. They could have flown the flightpath with airstairs down and then out over the ocean.

I disagree, they investigated the placard for months before that statement was made, they would have known if any tests included the area where it was found. To suggest it might have come off during the test indicates that it was a real possibility, not an off the cuff remark.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

The map is not scaled correctly. Heisson  is east of the path. it shows the plane several miles even further. then it shows the path too far west around Kalama. appears to be a map made by the reporters..

That map just one quick example, I am sure I could find more,, knowing the flightpath is a non issue, locals knew where the FBI search was.. it would have been easy to figure out the path (v23) or see an unofficial map of it before 1979.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The claim appears to be that it became missing after the testing. that doesn't imply over the same area. they would of noted that. another claim has it missing two days later. no records of two separate tests. no reason to hide the fact either. it never happened.

Report would say something like "the placard was noticed missing during testing over the same area the plane flew on the night of the hijacking" 

-`

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we haven't seen the location. we don't know if the card moved over the years. under the blanket of the tree's I don't see a lot of damage that could occur. was it cleaned up prior to being shown. just like anything else it has variables. it would of been painfully obvious if the plane was known to be in the same exact area with the stairs down allowing it to escape after the hijacking. putting two and two together would be rather simple. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
35 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:

we haven't seen the location. we don't know if the card moved over the years. under the blanket of the tree's I don't see a lot of damage that could occur. was it cleaned up prior to being shown. just like anything else it has variables. it would of been painfully obvious if the plane was known to be in the same exact area with the stairs down allowing it to escape after the hijacking. putting two and two together would be rather simple. 

"FBI spokesman Kay Mathis in Seattle put a word of caution on the finding of the placard by admitting that it was possible the plastic piece, 8 by 11 inches in size, may have been knocked off after the Cooper flight rather than during it."

All I am saying is that this statement made after they investigated the placard suggests the plane flew over the area.. it doesn't make sense otherwise. They knew where it flew and that would have been the first thing they checked.

Obviously there are many variables and other possibilities.. like most of this case.

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know what she said. she goes on to say it MAY have happened that way. who ever gave her the information might not have all the answers either. the placard appears to be on a file sheet for a binder that is 8 x 11. so how can the placard be the same size? sounds like a lot of misinformation.  

I stick to the logical answer of it being obvious right off the bat that the card came off during testing over the flight path instead of during the crime. no record of this flight has surfaced and the words may and could imply they are not sure. they might of found out later the testing was done over the ocean. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

What needs to be done is finding out if 305 had the emergency panel. it appears they did and was still in place. something somewhere needs to be found to verify...

Yes,, also find out if the 727 prototypes, (used in the 63/65 drop test) used rivets/screws for the placard... those may have been unique..

 

In 1963 -1964, The Boeing Company ·had ---·-- --- a team of 20 to 30 and test pilots experimenting with the air stairs of The Boeing 727 to determine the plane’s adaptability for dropping cargo or personnel. In the tests conducted the air stairs were removed and packages were dropped from the plane using an especially designed chute.

 

 

Northwest telephoned on 12/30/71.
He said he had definitely confirmed that pertinent airplane would be available to us all day on 1/6/72 and that we could do both the day time and night time flights on that day. 

 

The night flight suggests they flew the flighpath as well as the sled test.

 

norjakdaynight.jpeg

norjaktestflight.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, what problem I see is the testing was suppose to have been done on 1/06/72. I just received 49 photo's surrounding the the testing of the stairs on that date. this implies it never took place? 

Do you know where in the 302's they discuss the testing? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably not a chance in hell of ever finding that plastic door thing or whatever. After so many years, it is probably long gone. The flight path map those reporters did is not THAT inaccurate, but the angle is way too steep on it. Looks like Amateur Night all the way anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)
1 hour ago, mrshutter45 said:

this is interesting...

wind shift.png

yup, I posted that already with even more wind info... Eric just ignores it. 

The winds were an assumption based on Portland and Salem data averaged between 8-9PM, but if you look at winds close to 8PM they were ESE shifting to S then SSW..

 

All the wind data shows the winds from the ESE/SSE to S around 8 PM. In line with the flightpath.. the data also suggests it was the virtually the same same direction at all alt levels but increased at elevation.

The winds were an assumption, a poor one. That spins the LZ .

 

FBI part 20 page 6197-6198

8:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: Measured 3,000 feet overcast, 12 miles visibility, very light rain showers, temperature 42, wind south 5 knots. Rain began 7:35 p.m. 

9:00 PM – Toledo, Washington: 3,000 scattered measured, 3,400 overcast, 12 miles visibility, temperature 42, wind south 6 knots. Rain ended at 8:05 p.m. 

FBI part 22 page 6547

8:00 PM – Sea-Tac. Visibility 7 miles; clouds 700 ‘ft., scattered; estimated, 2,500 ft., overcast. Wind SSE @10 knots with light rain wnich began at 7:12 PM.

 

The following suggests the wind was a “guess” for the LZ

“_______ also stated that to secure average of below
listed information for Woodland, Washington, an average of the
two sets of information would give close estimate of
conditions at Woodland. The information below is for the times
between 8:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. on November- 24, 1971”

 

WINDESTIMATE.jpeg

Edited by FLYJACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cardinal Direction Degree Direction
pix.gif pix.gif

N

348.75 - 11.25

NNE

11.25 - 33.75

NE

33.75 - 56.25

ENE

56.25 - 78.75

E

78.75 - 101.25

ESE

101.25 - 123.75

SE

123.75 - 146.25

SSE

146.25 - 168.75

S

168.75 - 191.25

SSW

191.25 - 213.75

SW

213.75 - 236.25

WSW

236.25 - 258.75

W

258.75 - 281.25

WNW

281.25 - 303.75

NW

303.75 - 326.25

NNW

326.25 - 348.75

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, mrshutter45 said:
Cardinal Direction Degree Direction
pix.gif pix.gif

N

348.75 - 11.25

NNE

11.25 - 33.75

NE

33.75 - 56.25

ENE

56.25 - 78.75

E

78.75 - 101.25

ESE

101.25 - 123.75

SE

123.75 - 146.25

SSE

146.25 - 168.75

S

168.75 - 191.25

SSW

191.25 - 213.75

SW

213.75 - 236.25

WSW

236.25 - 258.75

W

258.75 - 281.25

WNW

281.25 - 303.75

NW

303.75 - 326.25

NNW

326.25 - 348.75

I know the direction, you miss the point, the application of the data is crap.. it is a guess, a poor proxy, it is for Portland and Salem, not where the placard was found or Cooper's possible LZ. Even worse, it is an average for an entire hour between 8-9 PM.. If you check Toledo at 8 or 9, Seattle at 8 and even Portland at 7- 8, the wind was ESE to S.. shifting later to SSW..  

 

Does anybody think using wind data 60-100 miles away averaged over an hour has any legitimacy..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
(edited)

Point of Order: ('Late Night With Robert' :) )

According to Larry Carr, the infamous 'Amboy Chute' was actually discovered between Green and Bald Mountains, just NW of Amboy, WA and south of Ariel. See illustration. FBI's response x3 inquiries into the current disposition of this parachute:  "We cannot discuss the parachute found in the Amboy area. It is evidence in an ongoing case..."

This was their response, even after it was pointed out to them that they had DISMISSED it as evidence more than five years previously. I asked them, "How can it still be evidence when you dismissed it AS evidence more than five years ago..."

Just saying. 
(EDIT:  No big deal, but the reason I am posting this so late is because I was working with a senior lady, driving her around to shopping and every other darn thing from 8AM Saturday morning, until pretty late that night. Fell asleep from 8PM when I got home until now. Good news:  I made twenty dollars an hour for this, plus what I have to do with her starting at 11AM on Sunday. With this weekend junk and my regular job, I haven't had a day off in three weeks now. The services charge double or even triple what I do, and she can easily afford it anyway. It's a good weekend gig and a good deal all around for everyone, but brother do I get tired sometimes. Maybe that's why I once thought Captain Scott actually walked back and talked to Cooper LOL.)  

I NEED a vacation, that's for sure.  :|

 

Green_BaldMountains.jpg

Edited by RobertMBlevins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
5 5