DB Cooper

[olemisscub 466]

8 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

??  not new, that is in the Gray file..

I'm joking that she is the original "he look like a man" lady. 

[FLYJACK 654]

9 minutes ago, olemisscub said:

I'm joking that she is the original "he look like a man" lady. 

Huh, I don't see the connection and I remember that skit, maybe lawyer humour..

 

[FLYJACK 654]

To shift topics...

I found this little nugget in the FBI files.. a guy calls a Spokane Newspaper and the FBI and says he would like a reward for taking the FBI room next to where the Cooper money is stored outside of Wa State. He wants the media there..  the guy was to call back but never did.

First impression, it sounds like a legitimate call vs a hoax.. at least the caller believes that he knows exactly where the money is though it may or may not actually have been where he thinks. 

 

[Coopericane 44]

That 95% is interesting... that would roughly account for the money left on Tena Bar. It could just as easily be him taking his own cut or simply coming up with a random arbitrary number, though.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Coopericane

[FLYJACK 654]

It would explain the money being stashed for some time before going into the Columbia..  either by Cooper or perhaps lost by Cooper and found by somebody who didn't turn it in..

[ParrotheadVol 70]

11 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

He wants the media there..  the guy was to call back but never did.

Well, there's a damn rabbit hole to go down...I wonder if that guy wound up on the bottom of the Columbia??

[FLYJACK 654]

Chaucer stated on Reddit..

Bill Rataczak stated to the FBI just hours after the hijacking that “they had definitely not reached Portland proper but were in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof” when the jump occurred.

Combine this with Soderlind’s statement about them seeing the lights of Portland, you get a jump near the Columbia IMO

This is 100% false and shows why the Columbia River landing BS won't die.... Ratazcak was giving a range between last contact with Cooper at 8:05 and the call to Solderlind in the suburbs of Portland.. So, Ratazcak was referring to the call to Solderlind in the suburbs of Portland and we know Cooper jumped minutes before that..

It is evidence that Cooper could not have jumped over the Columbia but Chaucer and others have misread the evidence and use a false premise to create a false conclusion...

Chaucer and others have flipped the evidence backasswards to fit their Columbia River confirmation bias..

This is a very important point to get right.

 

[CooperNWO305 146]

16 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Chaucer stated on Reddit..

Bill Rataczak stated to the FBI just hours after the hijacking that “they had definitely not reached Portland proper but were in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof” when the jump occurred.

Combine this with Soderlind’s statement about them seeing the lights of Portland, you get a jump near the Columbia IMO

This is 100% false and shows why the Columbia River landing BS won't die.... Ratazcak was giving a range between last contact with Cooper at 8:05 and the call to Solderlind in the suburbs of Portland.. So, Ratazcak was referring to the call to Solderlind in the suburbs of Portland and we know Cooper jumped minutes before that..

It is evidence that Cooper could not have jumped over the Columbia but Chaucer and others have misread the evidence and use a false premise to create a false conclusion...

Chaucer and others have flipped the evidence backasswards to fit their Columbia River confirmation bias..

This is a very important point to get right.

 

 

Don't forget 300 of the 10,000 bills were found at Tina Bar, so that means he jumped over the river and landed at Tina Bar, which means Western Flight path too. Actually, he would have had to jump south of the river given the winds.

[CooperNWO305 146]

Just now, CooperNWO305 said:

Don't forget 300 of the 10,000 bills were found at Tina Bar, so that means he jumped over the river and landed at Tina Bar, which means Western Flight path too. Actually, he would have had to jump south of the river given the winds.

Oh yea, and three pilots (one a WW2 vet) who were trusted with the lives of thousands of people over the years did not really know where they were.  Also, people who saw him multiple times over the course of a couple of hours could not describe him.  What else?  He was 28.  He was an expert with the 727 (even though he could not operate the stairs).  He knew the area because he figured Tacoma was on the flight path and that McChord was 20 miles/minutes from the airport.  Blue eyes is another one.

What I can't figure out is if people just want to throw a wrench in things, or they want to be heard, or whatever.  I don't know.  As much as we don't know about the case, we do know a lot. 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Oh yea, and three pilots (one a WW2 vet) who were trusted with the lives of thousands of people over the years did not really know where they were.  Also, people who saw him multiple times over the course of a couple of hours could not describe him.  What else?  He was 28.  He was an expert with the 727 (even though he could not operate the stairs).  He knew the area because he figured Tacoma was on the flight path and that McChord was 20 miles/minutes from the airport.  Blue eyes is another one.

What I can't figure out is if people just want to throw a wrench in things, or they want to be heard, or whatever.  I don't know.  As much as we don't know about the case, we do know a lot. 

Several things are going on.. people have a confirmation bias, that is human nature and everyone has to watch for it.. and people are not interpreting the evidence correctly.. also, people will over reach for solutions to solve an unexplained difficult case. There is a massive amount of information to process.. 

 

These drive me crazy.. smart people still get them wrong.

Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered in flight.. NOT DOWN. Airstairs down came later after negotiations and Reno was in play. His initial plan was not to jump ASAP.. his plan changed.

Ratazcak was hand flying the plane.. he said so..  and he acknowledged his path on the "FBI" map. NO WESTERN FLIGHTPATH.

and the Columbia River jump is debunked.. the call to Soderlind was in the suburbs before Portland and Soderlind took notes live... Cooper jumped around the 8:12 time..

Cooper was described as having latin features and complexion, that does not mean he wasn't also white or Caucasian. People incorrectly believe he can't be both,,, Latin Americans and Spanish were described as white or caucasian back then.. Latino became an official descriptor after NORJAK.. 

Cooper was not wearing a disguise.

Cooper had dark eyes.

Cooper did not fake smoking.

Cooper was described as having latin features and complexion, NOT A TAN.

Cooper did not know where the plane would be when he did jump.

Dynamite did come in red.

Cooper did not write on his ticket.

The crew was not in on it.

The FBI does not know if the unidentified prints are Cooper's.

REMCRU patent was not the only source for TiSb in the ratio found on the tie.

NOBODY plants or buries money at the River's high water line.

Tina is being deceptive.

The tie was not sold before spring 1964.. roughly between Spring 64 - Spring 65.

The FBI was looking for the wrong back parachute.

Cooper appeared to be 45-50. He was not 28.

Several witnesses admitted that their memories were fading years after the hijacking. In '76 the FBI admitted that the witnesses were unreliable and only Cooper confessing would bring a prosecution.

The cigarette butts were destroyed after testing within weeks of the hijacking.

The hair sample was lost/misplaced.

Oddly, Sketch A was mostly Tina who later claimed she didn't see Cooper face straight on.. Sketch B was a multi image process based on KK5-1 and input from all witnesses. They generally agreed on the final sketch B as the best likeness for Cooper.

The Hick's placard was not from inside NORJAK, it could have fallen off the outside of any passing 727.

The 8x40" part claimed to have been found in the woods was not from NORJAK.

Edited November 4, 2022 by FLYJACK

[CooperNWO305 146]

52 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

Several things are going on.. people have a confirmation bias, that is human nature and everyone has to watch for it.. and people are not interpreting the evidence correctly.. also, people will over reach for solutions to solve an unexplained difficult case. There is a massive amount of information to process.. 

 

These drive me crazy.. smart people still get them wrong.

Cooper's initial demand was airstairs lowered in flight.. NOT DOWN. Airstairs down came later after negotiations and Reno was in play. His initial plan was not to jump ASAP.. his plan changed.

Ratazcak was hand flying the plane.. he said so..  and he acknowledged his path on the "FBI" map. NO WESTERN FLIGHTPATH.

and the Columbia River jump is debunked.. the call to Soderlind was in the suburbs before Portland and Soderlind took notes live... Cooper jumped around the 8:12 time..

Cooper was described as having latin features and complexion, that does not mean he wasn't also white or Caucasian. People incorrectly believe he can't be both,,, Latin Americans and Spanish were described as white or caucasian back then.. Latino became an official descriptor after NORJAK.. 

Cooper was not wearing a disguise.

Cooper had dark eyes.

Cooper did not fake smoking.

Cooper was described as having latin features and complexion, NOT A TAN.

Cooper did not know where the plane would be when he did jump.

Dynamite did come in red.

Cooper did not write on his ticket.

The crew was not in on it.

The FBI does not know if the unidentified prints are Cooper's.

REMCRU patent was not the only source for TiSb in the ratio found on the tie.

NOBODY plants or buries money at the River's high water line.

Tina is being deceptive.

The tie was not sold before spring 1964.. roughly between Spring 64 - Spring 65.

The FBI was looking for the wrong back parachute.

Cooper appeared to be 45-50. He was not 28.

Several witnesses admitted that their memories were fading years after the hijacking. In '76 the FBI admitted that the witnesses were unreliable and only Cooper confessing would bring a prosecution.

The cigarette butts were destroyed after testing within weeks of the hijacking.

The hair sample was lost/misplaced.

Oddly, Sketch A was mostly Tina who later claimed she didn't see Cooper face straight on.. Sketch B was a multi image process based on KK5-1 and input from all witnesses. They generally agreed on the final sketch B as the best likeness for Cooper.

The Hick's placard was not from inside NORJAK, it could have fallen off the outside of any passing 727.

The 8x40" part claimed to have been found in the woods was not from NORJAK.

I've seen a lot of people make statements like "eyewitness testimony is not reliable" or that composite sketches are not accurate, or they will cite examples of times that witnesses could not identify someone.  I realize that there are situations like that, but rarely if any time have I seen of a situation where people got a good look at the person and then came up with some off the wall description. So if we took a situation similar to Cooper, what would the sketches have come out like?  Do we have instances of that?  No one got a great look at Zodiac, or the Unabomber.  

What leads me to that is this: If you gave me a test on the eye color of my family, or friends, or public figures, and I had to answer quickly, I might get some of them wrong.  But if you put brown eyes on my dad or blue eyes on my mom, I would know right away that something did not look right.  So not being able to determine eye color, is not the same as looking at a photo and knowing something is wrong.  Ask me to draw Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig and I can't do it.  But show me a picture of both of them and I'll tell who is who.

Sometimes I really want the case solved just so we can see how close Composite B came.

Edited November 4, 2022 by CooperNWO305

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Don't forget 300 of the 10,000 bills were found at Tina Bar, so that means he jumped over the river and landed at Tina Bar, which means Western Flight path too. Actually, he would have had to jump south of the river given the winds.

Cooper was born and raised at Tina Bar. Part of the Dell Tena family. All athletes - skiers and jumpers. He was brain injured during the jump. He went back to his ole stompin grounds where he had had so much fun growing cabbages as a child and buried 300 bills as an offering to the Cabbage Gods. The evidence shows it. Anyone got a photo of Cooper with a cabbage? Has Ulis had his press conference yet to announce this? 

Edited November 4, 2022 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

REMCRU patent was not the only source for TiSb in the ratio found on the tie.

One of only two with sprague electric. 

[georger 197]

Chaucer is headstrong and doesn't listen. He forgets that Tosaw researched Cooper's LZ extensively, and his divers claimed Tosaw had told them had was working from evidence provided (by his FBI brothers), that Cooper landed in the Columbia. But in reality Tosaw was twisting the facts and never could document a Columbia landing, beyond money being found at Tena Bar.

Maj Dawson (and his friends) made a similar claim which Tosaw was aware of. But Dawson backed off backing Tosaw, which basically left Tosaw stranded and a loner. Dawson basically said Cooper had jumped as 305 crossed Hayden Island. Tosaw said 'no' - Cooper jumped closer to Caterpillar Island as 305 crossed the Columbia. Tosaw reasoned that the money defined the jump zone.

The logic is that there must be some direct connection between Cooper's LZ and money found at Tena Bar. The reality is: there is no a-priori  connection. I also wonder why the FBI never looked at any of the Tena family, given their economic hardship, loss of their land purchased by the Fazio family, and their long history with skiing and possibly sky diving ?  They had reason to have a grudge and they were in need of money ?  The Cooper money turns up in their own back yard literally ?

Chaucer has not specified where Cooper had to jump in order to land anywhere in the Columbia. Unless Chaucer is saying Cooper dropped straight down after leaving 305.  ?

Edited November 4, 2022 by georger

[georger 197]

43 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

One of only two with sprague electric. 

Oh good. Cooper was a radio repairman. Do you have his call sign in 1971? Its a small list of people! W0DAN ?

Edited November 4, 2022 by georger

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

13 minutes ago, georger said:

Oh good. Cooper was a radio repairman. Do you have his call sign in 1971? Its a small list of people! W0DAN ?

Jerry are you off your meds again? chill. I went through Sprague Electric with a fine tooth comb and their TiSb capacitor patent and couldn't develop any leads to aerospace, the PNW, etc. and never any commercial application for it. So no he wasn’t a radio repairman :)

Edited November 4, 2022 by Nicholas Broughton

[georger 197]

54 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

Jerry are you off your meds again? chill. I went through Sprague Electric with a fine tooth comb and their TiSb capacitor patent and couldn't develop any leads to aerospace, the PNW, etc. and never any commercial application for it. So no he wasn’t a radio repairman :)

I dont know what your emotional problem is nor do I care -  Dont melt the glaciers!  Your work in the Cooper Vortex is vital to the survival of the Sinai Script. mosal tov.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by georger

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

One of only two with sprague electric. 

It is not limited to any patents.. but I have looked into Sprague for other reasons..

Sprague components were used in military applications..

Don't get trapped in the patents.. it is a red herring.

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, georger said:

Chaucer is headstrong and doesn't listen. He forgets that Tosaw researched Cooper's LZ extensively, and his divers claimed Tosaw had told them had was working from evidence provided (by his FBI brothers), that Cooper landed in the Columbia. But in reality Tosaw was twisting the facts and never could document a Columbia landing, beyond money being found at Tena Bar.

Maj Dawson (and his friends) made a similar claim which Tosaw was aware of. But Dawson backed off backing Tosaw, which basically left Tosaw stranded and a loner. Dawson basically said Cooper had jumped as 305 crossed Hayden Island. Tosaw said 'no' - Cooper jumped closer to Caterpillar Island as 305 crossed the Columbia. Tosaw reasoned that the money defined the jump zone.

The logic is that there must be some direct connection between Cooper's LZ and money found at Tena Bar. The reality is: there is no a-priori  connection. I also wonder why the FBI never looked at any of the Tena family, given their economic hardship, loss of their land purchased by the Fazio family, and their long history with skiing and possibly sky diving ?  They had reason to have a grudge and they were in need of money ?  The Cooper money turns up in their own back yard literally ?

Chaucer has not specified where Cooper had to jump in order to land anywhere in the Columbia. Unless Chaucer is saying Cooper dropped straight down after leaving 305.  ?

It is clear,, Rataczak acknowledged the flightpath map when he talked about hand flying the plane, so no Western Path..

Rataczak said Cooper jumped before last contact with Cooper at 8:05 and his delayed call to Soderlind which was in the suburbs of Portland. We know there was a delay between the bump/oscillation and the call to Soderlind. So, Cooper jumped well before the Columbia.. Soderlind took notes of the times as he was listening in live.. Soderlind noted when the bump/oscillation occurred.

So, these people who are trying to move the jump zone or flightpath have nothing.. nada.

Their only angle is to discredit Rataczak, Soderlind, the FBI, the chase pilots, the Air Force, NWA , the 305 pilots and the ATC ... with no evidence to back it up.

Cooper jumped between the Lewis R and Battleground.. the highest probability is about 8:12 diminishing as you move North to the Lewis or South to Battleground.

The flightpath is accurate within the 1 mile plotting error..

 

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

50 minutes ago, FLYJACK said:

It is not limited to any patents.. but I have looked into Sprague for other reasons..

Sprague components were used in military applications..

Don't get trapped in the patents.. it is a red herring.

Sprague, just as Crucible had lots of successful patents and also unsuccessful TiSb patents,  Sprague was successful with producing capacitors in Worcester MA and Concird NH that even went on Apollo 11, but not these TiSb capacitors.

[Nicholas Broughton 53]

4 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

The tie was not sold before spring 1964.. roughly between Spring 64 - Spring 65

You’ve done some good sleuthing on the tie Fly, I know you originally had an earlier timeline for it what changed? 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Nicholas Broughton

[Robert99 37]

1 hour ago, georger said:

I dont know what your emotional problem is nor do I care -  Dont melt the glaciers!  Your work in the Cooper Vortex is vital to the survival of the Sinai Script. mosal tov.

 

Georger's new career as this site's Grammer policeman has not gotten off to a good start.

[FLYJACK 654]

15 minutes ago, Nicholas Broughton said:

You’ve done some good sleuthing on the tie Fly, I know you originally had an earlier timeline for it what changed? 

No. I didn't really, Eric did.

The Penny's corporate logo appearing on the tie was updated and first introduced Nov 24, 1963.. It took some time for all products to get the new logo but there was also another change on the tie that indicates not before about spring 1964..

[georger 197]

6 hours ago, Robert99 said:

Georger's new career as this site's Grammer policeman has not gotten off to a good start.

When people say 'me and X' vs the correct form: "X and I" it makes me wonder about their educational background as a clue to their research competency ? Any significant deficit has consequences and may show itself in people's work.... like yours. Dont worry Robert. Nothing is going to change. The Vortex is generally immune to change. The radical nonsense will continue so you are safe to kvetch for as long as you live.  

Only you would bring this up vs presenting real research on a DB Cooper site! That goes to your social priorities and your agenda. That may indicate your work is all fucked up too!

Edited November 5, 2022 by georger

[Math of Insects 96]

15 hours ago, georger said:

When people say 'me and X' vs the correct form: "X and I" it makes me wonder about their educational background as a clue to their research competency ? Any significant deficit has consequences and may show itself in people's work.... like yours. Dont worry Robert. Nothing is going to change. The Vortex is generally immune to change. The radical nonsense will continue so you are safe to kvetch for as long as you live.  

Only you would bring this up vs presenting real research on a DB Cooper site! That goes to your social priorities and your agenda. That may indicate your work is all fucked up too!

Right or wrong, I also tend to presume that someone who writes crudely is probably not educated enough (or in the right ways) to produce defensible research.

Flip side, I also think the intra-family sniping on these Cooper boards hinders the progress of the case, if there's actually any to be made. I gave up on this board in particular when every day featured 15 new long diatribes by and against a particular poster, even as I was pretty interested in what (for example) Flyjack had to say about certain elements I was curious about. 

Just ignore each other's static and focus on the data. Easy for me to say from the outside, I know.

But that's also the point: the outside is where the new perspectives will come from.