DB Cooper

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

No way to know if this info is paranoid fantasy or has a grain of truth. The Iran Contra affair showed us that the CIA isnt above selling guns to US enemies in the Middle East to finance covert anti communist ops in Central America.

Speaking of which...

Remember the two skydivers whose names came up during that whole thing?

Gene Hassenfus - who survived the shoot down of a CIA backed transport plane. He was the 'kicker', when he saw the SAM coming he simply stepped outside - since he had at least a goldwing at the time it was no biggie.

He was captured and interrogated...picture essay in Newsweek. (iirc)

In that set of photos published internationally was the contents of Eugene's wallet...the usual stuff - and a business card from Ole Joe Smith of 'The Herd' fame.

I know both principles...

Joe wasn't very happy, seems that episode sparked a lot of questions as to why & how he was visited so often at night, by C130's & such at his 'little' private airport way out in the woods...


Today's fun-fact!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

...it takes a lot of courage to look in the mirror after one is called a stinky murderer who lusts after a former nun.

Hell Bruce - that describes 1/2 the skydivers I know!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Amazon 7]

BruceSmith

***It takes more than that Bruce... I think Robert has at least exited an airplane... and saved his own life.

Its an acquired skill... you should try it.. and I am not talking about the carnival ride that so many people participate in by doing a tandem....

Saving your own life provides a clarity that very few people can obtain from their lives.

Well, Amazon, let's not make skydiving up to be anything more than what it really is, which is one teeny-weeny step out of a metal tube with wings. After that gravity takes over, and according to what I read here, the sitting under a canopy for the five minutes or so it takes to land is boring.

Okay, so there's the life and death thing, but technically, I risk death everytime I eat a cheesburger.

Besides, it takes a lot of courage to look in the mirror after one is called a stinky murderer who lusts after a former nun.

What, you don't think my cajones are as big as, um, yours, so to speak????

See right there you proved it... you do not know ... what you are clueless about. Try again.

[BruceSmith 3]

smokin99

***........ Or maybe you can just levitate to 14.5 and save a couple of bills.

377

You just gotta put your mind in that special place....


http://www.quitecurious.com/dreaming-of-flying/



Nice link, Smoke. I liked reading about this "levitator."

BTW: how come you haven't told us how to access the site where you got the Tina pix and so much information on her?

[BruceSmith 3]

Amazon

******It takes more than that Bruce... I think Robert has at least exited an airplane... and saved his own life.

Its an acquired skill... you should try it.. and I am not talking about the carnival ride that so many people participate in by doing a tandem....

Saving your own life provides a clarity that very few people can obtain from their lives.

Well, Amazon, let's not make skydiving up to be anything more than what it really is, which is one teeny-weeny step out of a metal tube with wings. After that gravity takes over, and according to what I read here, the sitting under a canopy for the five minutes or so it takes to land is boring.

Okay, so there's the life and death thing, but technically, I risk death everytime I eat a cheesburger.

Besides, it takes a lot of courage to look in the mirror after one is called a stinky murderer who lusts after a former nun.

What, you don't think my cajones are as big as, um, yours, so to speak????

See right there you proved it... you do not know ... what you are clueless about. Try again.


Maybe I could tandem with you, Amazon?

Only a suggestion....

[BruceSmith 3]

377

Amazon wrote

Quote

Its an acquired skill... you should try it.. and I am not talking about the carnival ride that so many people participate in by doing a tandem....

Carnival ride is a bit harsh Amazon. I welcome those carnival riders into the fold. They have experienced the thrill and risk of freefall albeit with stability assistance and a hired canopy pilot.

Wind tunnels are carnival rides. Tandem jumping is several notches above in my opinion.

Tandems can be scary if you are the kind of person who wants to be in control. Johnny Horton aka "Johnny Love" was a USAF PJ and skydiver. When he was getting his tandem JM rating I was offered a free tandem ride. I declined. First because I need to be in control if I am falling and second because I just knew Johnny would try his best to make me puke during the canopy ride. Sadly, Johnny was killed a few years ago in a military training accident at Ft Leggett.

So Bruce, skip a few cheeseburgers and save up for a tandem. Or maybe you can just levitate to 14.5 and save a couple of bills.

377

When I finally develop the consciousness to levitate, Three-Seven-Seven, then I'll "skydive" with you. Just think, how many levitators do so at terminal velocity, eh?

[BruceSmith 3]

airtwardo

Quote

...it takes a lot of courage to look in the mirror after one is called a stinky murderer who lusts after a former nun.

Hell Bruce - that describes 1/2 the skydivers I know!

EXACTLY! That's what I've been trying to tell Amazon! See, I knew I was really one of you guys!!!

[smokin99 0]

If we could find the guy in this pic of Grey Cup winner's locker room, we've solved our mystery.

http://www.glenbow.org/images/archpics/football.jpg



linked from here:

http://www.glenbow.org/collections/search/findingAids/archhtm/football.cfm

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[BruceSmith 3]

In the meantime...


https://www.youtube.com/embed/A6XUVjK9W4o

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

******You're kidding, right...

Everything I said above was true, and you haven't offered a single thing to refute it. Your link goes to a crap vid at YouTube. Whatever...

I'm out of here. I have to do Driving Miss Daisy at 11AM tomorrow.

BYE! DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS ON THE WAY OUT!

Try the name: F U H R I M A N next time - not "Fuhrman" or
"Furman" ?

I wont post this for you again! This is already about no.8 going
clear back to 2010.

As for the rest: REED THE THREAD!

Nobody is your caretaker, Blevins!

Let me get this straight. You spent half the day denying the evidence that indeed...the FBI did NOT check out airline employees or NWA employees during their investigation...even using NAMES on me about it during same...and this is all based on...

Because I left the 'i' out of his name? Uh, okay. Next time you want to talk about driving people off or wasting time posting, you'd better take a look in the mirror sir. I also think you should shoot off an email to Geoff Gray and Crown Books. They also spell Bob Fuhr(i)man's name as Fuhrman.

In my humble opinion, it's time you take a hard look at what is important and what is not.

Quote: "RobertBlevins said: NWA employees have repeatedly
testified that flight crews often did not know each other, since
NWA usually kept the same crews on the same routes.

Sluggo replies Dec 15 2010 and Jan 3 2011:
Hmmmmm? I thought ALL airlines with "represented" [bargining
unit/union] employees used the "Seniority/Bid" system of crew
assignment. I guess NWA (Northwest Orient) was the one
exception. Boy! You're sure good at this research stuff!"

Summerwill replies:
'NWA employees were just like employees of any other major
airline; they were union represented. Where does this guy get
the idea that NWA and it's employees were somehow different
or exempt? Employees of all airlines fall under FAA and other
Federal regulations. NWA had its own investigative division
that worked with the FBI, FAA, and others.'

Nancy Wong replies:
'I doubt that Agent Fuhriman said or meant what Mr. Blevins is
contending, he said. Casual conversations like that can lead to
real trouble, especially when one party is not being honest and
has ulterior motives.'

C.A.L. replies:
'I was an NWA employee and they questioned me! They also
questioned ___________, and ___________, and __________!

[georger 197]

airtwardo

Quote

No way to know if this info is paranoid fantasy or has a grain of truth. The Iran Contra affair showed us that the CIA isnt above selling guns to US enemies in the Middle East to finance covert anti communist ops in Central America.

Speaking of which...

Remember the two skydivers whose names came up during that whole thing?

Gene Hassenfus - who survived the shoot down of a CIA backed transport plane. He was the 'kicker', when he saw the SAM coming he simply stepped outside - since he had at least a goldwing at the time it was no biggie.

He was captured and interrogated...picture essay in Newsweek. (iirc)

In that set of photos published internationally was the contents of Eugene's wallet...the usual stuff - and a business card from Ole Joe Smith of 'The Herd' fame.

I know both principles...

Joe wasn't very happy, seems that episode sparked a lot of questions as to why & how he was visited so often at night, by C130's & such at his 'little' private airport way out in the woods...


Today's fun-fact!

Beautiful! The world is full of 'fun-facts'!

[propblast 0]

For those that exited a 727. How hard is it to get off the staircase while in flight? Is it easy to get out and onto the hill with a semblance of body control?

Just curious?

Propblast

[BruceSmith 3]

propblast

For those that exited a 727. How hard is it to get off the staircase while in flight? Is it easy to get out and onto the hill with a semblance of body control?

Just curious?

Greetings Propblast-

At the risk of exceeding my knowledge of skydiving skills and experiences, here is what I have learned about jumping from a 727.

First, it's surprisingly quiet in terms of wind around the exit area. One report has a cup of coffee perched at the top of the aft stairs and not being disturbed by the wind. It is not quiet in terms of engine noise. The smell of jet exhaust is also apparent.

Folks report that the immediate jump is smooth, and then one hits a lot of turbulence. Robb Heady, who I've interviewed for my book on Cooper and have written about here, says that he left his 727 when it was going over 300 mph and he tumbled severely for about fifteen seconds.

Robb says that he "held his arch" and eventually stabilized, soon landing near his target area of Lake Washoe, in Reno.

The absence of any details from Barb Dayton on the experience of her jump is one of the items that make her confession suspect.

As for Duane, all we know is that he had nightmares about leaving fingerprints on the aft stair railings.

KC, not a clue on his jump. Same with Uncle LD.

Details on McCoy's jump are surprisingly non-existent. I don't know the speed, althitude or any other aspects of his jump, nor the conditions he faced.

I'd be surprised if McNally remembers his jump since he barely was able to put on his chute properly and lost this money and machine gun on the way down. But he made it to the ground in one piece.

If you like to know more about these personages, I'd be happy to send more info. Email me at brucesmith AT rainierconnect DOT com.

[377 20]

propblast

For those that exited a 727. How hard is it to get off the staircase while in flight? Is it easy to get out and onto the hill with a semblance of body control?

Just curious?

I jumped the Perris DC 9 at WFFC 2006. I assume it was quite similar to the 727 jump-wise. Piece of cake exiting, no wind at all until you were completely out. Then once clear you hit the slipstream and it's FAST. I think our jump run was about 180++. it sure wasn't like a Twin Otter exit. Some folks tumbled for a few sec. A few accessories were lost, goggles, fanny packs and a wrist altimeter that had worn out Velcro. My goggles were stripped off my face but the helmet kept them from detaching. The DC 9 had the stairs removed for the jump.

There are YouTube videos of WFFC 727 and DC 9 jumps.

It cost $100 but was worth every penny.

The speed and single file exit put some jumpers quite a way
off the DZ for their landings. Later loads did two passes to minimize the spread.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

************You're kidding, right...

Everything I said above was true, and you haven't offered a single thing to refute it. Your link goes to a crap vid at YouTube. Whatever...

I'm out of here. I have to do Driving Miss Daisy at 11AM tomorrow.

BYE! DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOUR ASS ON THE WAY OUT!

Try the name: F U H R I M A N next time - not "Fuhrman" or
"Furman" ?

I wont post this for you again! This is already about no.8 going
clear back to 2010.

As for the rest: REED THE THREAD!

Nobody is your caretaker, Blevins!

Let me get this straight. You spent half the day denying the evidence that indeed...the FBI did NOT check out airline employees or NWA employees during their investigation...even using NAMES on me about it during same...and this is all based on...

Because I left the 'i' out of his name? Uh, okay. Next time you want to talk about driving people off or wasting time posting, you'd better take a look in the mirror sir. I also think you should shoot off an email to Geoff Gray and Crown Books. They also spell Bob Fuhr(i)man's name as Fuhrman.

In my humble opinion, it's time you take a hard look at what is important and what is not.

Quote: "RobertBlevins said: NWA employees have repeatedly
testified that flight crews often did not know each other, since
NWA usually kept the same crews on the same routes.

Sluggo replies Dec 15 2010 and Jan 3 2011:
Hmmmmm? I thought ALL airlines with "represented" [bargining
unit/union] employees used the "Seniority/Bid" system of crew
assignment. I guess NWA (Northwest Orient) was the one
exception. Boy! You're sure good at this research stuff!"

Summerwill replies:
'NWA employees were just like employees of any other major
airline; they were union represented. Where does this guy get
the idea that NWA and it's employees were somehow different
or exempt? Employees of all airlines fall under FAA and other
Federal regulations. NWA had its own investigative division
that worked with the FBI, FAA, and others.'

Nancy Wong replies:
'I doubt that Agent Fuhriman said or meant what Mr. Blevins is
contending, he said. Casual conversations like that can lead to
real trouble, especially when one party is not being honest and
has ulterior motives.'

C.A.L. replies:
'I was an NWA employee and they questioned me! They also
questioned ___________, and ___________, and __________!



I may have been wrong on the crew assignments, but I did know NWA was a union outfit. Your 'CAL' post is unattributed and means absolutely nothing unless it is.

Okay...we will go along with your idea that two FBI agents who actually worked the Cooper case are wrong and somehow YOU are right...when you say the FBI looked at airline employees as possible suspects.

You can believe what you want. I will believe the agents. And not only was your Suzy Wong (excuse me, Nancy) not there during my conversation with Fuhriman, but Kenny Christiansen worked strictly the overseas Orient routes. This comes from his family, his letters, other sources. The real point here is he didn't do domestic.

You know, you wasted a lot of peoples' time here yesterday with your poems, nonsensical crap, insults, whatever...which was all wrapped around an 'i' in a name. That's obsession all the way. And it doesn't stop there. The more you do this, the more emails I get from people asking who you are and why you do that, and what's your problem. Do I answer those questions truthfully? Maybe, maybe not. I just thought you should know the reality of it though. If you had an email, I'd start forwarding them to you and letting you deal with them. Frankly, I get tired of answering for you.

Is this some kind of threat? To get me to change my posting here at Dropzone?

Hmmm. Let me ponder this latest "threat" of yours, Jo ...
I mean Blevins.

Seems to every time we get down to the nitty gritty you make
threats? Threaten lawsuits, etc.

Do you run Dropzone? I know this has been asked by me and
others before?

PS: Hear anything from Mitchell ???

Oh! Forgot! ... Are you competing in the Olympics this year?
Winter Marathon or something?

[georger 197]

RobertMBlevins

Robert says:

Quote

'You know, you wasted a lot of peoples' time here yesterday with your poems, nonsensical crap, insults, whatever...which was all wrapped around an 'i' in a name. That's obsession all the way. And it doesn't stop there. The more you do this, the more emails I get from people asking who you are and why you do that, and what's your problem. Do I answer those questions truthfully? Maybe, maybe not. I just thought you should know the reality of it though. If you had an email, I'd start forwarding them to you and letting you deal with them. Frankly, I get tired of answering for you...'

Georger asks:
***'Is this some kind of threat? To get me to change my posting here at Dropzone?

Hmmm. Let me ponder this latest "threat" of yours, Jo ...
I mean Blevins.

Seems to every time we get down to the nitty gritty you make threats? Threaten lawsuits, etc.

Do you run Dropzone? I know this has been asked by me and others before?

PS: Hear anything from Mitchell ??

No, it's not a threat. In fact, I removed your real name and a certain reference from my 3-part Cooperland article at Newsvine a couple of months ago. But it IS reality. You don't get what's going on. Have you ever gone back just to look at how many people are actually viewing our posts? After a week, it can number in the hundreds easily. Older ones can go over a thousand.

I have an email link in my profile here, at the AB website, and another at Newsvine. What's going on is when you make so much noise, people sometimes want to know the source of the noise. This thread is linked out by me all over the place, and my Vine column gets 200,000-250,000 visits a year. So sometimes people see these posts and they start emailing. Or...they've read the book, or Gray's book, and see the Dropzone Cooper thread references and they come HERE. I get emails about you on a regular basis. Not a whole lot, but maybe two or three a week. They ask who you are, etc and what the heck is your problem, whatever.

It's a heads-up. I don't care what you do, but I do get tired of answering for you. I do NOT reveal your identity to them. However, I've been known to refer them to a certain group of pages in a certain book...since that is a public item.

No I don't run Dropzone. And you are the last person I would tell about any responses from Mitchell. Frankly, I don't trust you anymore. If you want to know what I know, or WILL know regarding Mitchell and anything new on KC...come to the Auburn Avenue Theater on Saturday, August 10th, 2014. Doors open at 9AM. Seats will be filled soon afterward I'm sure...but not because of me. My role that day is small bananas.

EDIT: If you are a bit bummed by all this, that makes two of us. The only difference is I have to deal with the fallout and the messages...

Listen to this song. Guaranteed to make anyone feel better for sure.

So, your intent is to 'bum me out' and 'get me to stop posting
at Dropzone', under your threat to:

(1) forward email you receive from the general public, to
me at my private email address, and

(2) forward people to me who contact you, by any means you
chose!

Of course you could do this to anyone who posts at
Dropzone, who you do not like or want to shut down or
sanction, or make trouble for, play dirty tricks on etc., for
whatever reason you chose!

This is a first here at Dropzone!

You have brought this forum to a standstill! I guess I and others
will have to consider your threat(s) and act accordingly ... ?

Am I bummed out, as you call it? Am I shocked? Frankly, I
don't know. This is a first at Dropzone or at any other
forum so far as I know. I don't know how people deal with
something like you threaten. I guess we will all find out, since
you have dropped this in our laps.

Maybe Quade will have something to say?

I think you have brought this forum to a standstill at your
behest and benefit. It's one helluva a way to get your way
and force your way on others - I can say that!

Have a nice day, Mr. RobertMBlevins!

[propblast 0]

377

***For those that exited a 727. How hard is it to get off the staircase while in flight? Is it easy to get out and onto the hill with a semblance of body control?

Just curious?

I jumped the Perris DC 9 at WFFC 2006. I assume it was quite similar to the 727 jump-wise. Piece of cake exiting, no wind at all until you were completely out. Then once clear you hit the slipstream and it's FAST. I think our jump run was about 180++. it sure wasn't like a Twin Otter exit. Some folks tumbled for a few sec. A few accessories were lost, goggles, fanny packs and a wrist altimeter that had worn out Velcro. My goggles were stripped off my face but the helmet kept them from detaching. The DC 9 had the stairs removed for the jump.

There are YouTube videos of WFFC 727 and DC 9 jumps.

It cost $100 but was worth every penny.

The speed and single file exit put some jumpers quite a way
off the DZ for their landings. Later loads did two passes to minimize the spread.

377

As I suspected. I think that moneybag took off or took him for a ride.

Propblast

[skyjack71 0]

Somehow this post was connected to another poster, but I was replying MrShutter:

skyjack71

Now YOU are confusing me.

The night clerk told the FBI about the man who came in on that night before Nov. 12 1971. He told the FBI or whoever came to question the night clerks who had been on duty on that night. I thought I had posted an accounting of what he has stated before.

I do not remember if he was questioned the next day or the day after that. He said individuals (I took that to mean more than one) who said they were FBI questioned all of the employee on duty.

They gave a description (I do NOT know which composite they used in the very beginning) - I think it might be the one I labeled Superman. How quickly they replaced that composite! It was a description given to him by the investigating agents not the composite. Remember the investigative persons probably stated his approx height, complexion, eye color and any unusual characteristics.

Now understand this is just JO trying to tell what she was told by the night clerk and my story might not be exactly like his - there has been a lot of garbage thrown over the bridge since the last time I revisited the things he told me.

He said the man asked about the Piano Bar attached by an open walk way that night....being the eve before Thanksgiving day - it must not have appeared to be open.

He remember his name because of what the man said. He himself is over 6ft and so that is how he knew the man's approximate height. The registration said John Collins - now how did he remember that? An exchange said in jest regarding a Tom Collins...the man replied his name wasn't Tom as he was going out the door to the bar.

I do some place in all of this garbage have his statements - but since I have not done much in the way of keeping the records organized these last 3 yrs - I just do NOT try to find the stuff. Someone else can do that later.

I think I forgot what your question was! Whatever - this is what I remember of what he told me.
Today I haven't been able to remember crap. BAD DAY! Plus a bad headache tonight...left eye has been giving me problems. Maybe I fell asleep with it open!

That is how the Dr. explains the one dry eye problem! Injured in the 2000 auto accident and it has gotten worse with age.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Joachim77 0]

I'm new here and a Cooper novice, but one thing I wonder after having read about him here and other places on the net - I haven't found anything about who he could have been if he didn't survive. I see that the official stand is that "he probably didn't survive the jump". So aren't there any "good suspects" that were never seen again after the incident? And if not - doesn't it make it much more probable that he made it?

[Amazon 7]

Joachim77

I'm new here and a Cooper novice, but one thing I wonder after having read about him here and other places on the net - I haven't found anything about who he could have been if he didn't survive. I see that the official stand is that "he probably didn't survive the jump". So aren't there any "good suspects" that were never seen again after the incident? And if not - doesn't it make it much more probable that he made it?

Usually the only ones who hold that view are those who have never jumped out of a plane because it scares them to death... or those who jump from low altitudes and have their parachutes deployed by a static line... and who are afraid of the scary woods that will kill you for sure.

There have been thousands of US airmen who have bailed out of aircraft under far worse conditions than Cooper jumped and survived just fine.

[matthewcline 0]

quade

***But, to suggest someone murdered another human being, just for a story, crazy.

If that was what she did that would be one thing. Don't blow it out of proportion though because that's NOT what she did. She said;

Quote

I would not put it past him to have...

Which is something different from an actual accusation of murder.

As for Bruce, simmer down.

As for Jo, likewise.

Honestly, a number of you are serial offenders and are pretty damn close to getting booted. Talk about the subject, disagree with the theories, but for goodness sake cut it with the attacks on each other. It's so old it's silly.

As she wrote it, sure I see your point. As to her context of the post, I see mine, as do many others. It does fit her history of attack posts, personal in nature.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[smokin99 0]

Joachim77

I'm new here and a Cooper novice, but one thing I wonder after having read about him here and other places on the net - I haven't found anything about who he could have been if he didn't survive. I see that the official stand is that "he probably didn't survive the jump". So aren't there any "good suspects" that were never seen again after the incident? And if not - doesn't it make it much more probable that he made it?

Hi Joachim. Personally, I'm open to all possibilities..but to your question:

Melvin Luther Wilson was the father of a poster on here - EVickiW. Disappeared in Sept of 1971. Not just someone that left his home - this guy had federal marshals looking for him.
We know he was a underwater diver, outdoorsy, and not averse to risk.

Caveats:
>>Not sure if he has been positively placed in a parachute yet (though I don't know that anyone has "definitively 100%" proved this as a prerequisite, I think most are agreed that some knowledge would help).

>>His eyes were blue but apparently they were so dark blue that they appeared black at times. The description says blue/black.

>>Some say he doesn't match the composite.
LOL...to which I say...
1. I've never seen anyone that doesn't match if you squint hard enough. So you be the judge...
2. Which composite?
So....With all that plus I'm not entirely sure how we define "suspect" since that can be a rather nebulous term that gets tossed around on here a lot - let's just say Melvin is a good a shot as some of the others....better than some, worse than others....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QLnFvk8Fs

And this:
Unsolved mysteries segment -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhjSnvlzG0w


And this:
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/case_report_html/15178

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

Researching something for you guys I was going thru OLD records I have NOT reviewed in yrs.

PLEASE READ & PLEASE HELP IF YOU CAN MAKE THE FBI LOOK AT THIS - THIS IS ALL OVER! 13 YRS AGO I HAD THE TRUTH WITHIN MY GRASP - BUT THE OTHER PART DID NOT SURFACE UNTIL 3 YRS AGO

Often I have quizzed you guys aboub BRR in the last 3 yrs.

BRR appearing some place it should not. An old legal instrument with BRR on it in a place that seemed illogical because of the orientation of the instrument.

The authorities would NOT help, but in the last few months my guy was given a name that went with the clue - did NOT mean a thing to me! NOT until NOW.

While searching thur old documents regarding something I wanted to post about - I found the BR (a man's name given to me in 2001) connected to the CORNER TAVERN. An old patron by the name of Snow had suggested I needed to find this BR. The crew looked, but more interested in their docmentary. I didn't have the rescouces or the money to find BR.

Dollars Corner Tavern in 2001:

We did go to a few places, but since the GUIDE was only a 2 yr college student - he had NOT a clue what we were looking for. None of the others in the crew knew anything about WA.

Returning home I did what I could and just filed it away...a simple search on the name.

3 yrs ago when the initials where mentioned - my mind did NOT revisit the story told to me by Mr. Snow at the TAVERN. BR versus BRR, but still I did not connect the two.

Now I know what the BRR meant & we passed up the most valuable lead ever presented. I still had my old notes from 2001 & the search I did on the name given to me. Initials BR!

[:)Only because I was digging into old files to discredit some negative postings in the thread -did I come across that old file (one piece of paper) The BR given to me in 2001. It literally jumped out of the files.

Now it seems the only people who would be able to chase the BRR and BR is the FBI. My guy without knowing what I just told you all tried to chase a BRR instrument, but only found a relative. This instrument was attached to something that connects to the past of Weber.

Dumb me forgot about BR in 2001 & when BRR came up - I did NOT connect the 2 things.

I let it go 13 yrs ago.

I had forgot about the name the man at the Tavern gave me - it was just BR - BR and BRR are connected --- it was right there in my files from 2001 with all of the numbers and the names I tried to contact. The man died in 1996...

ODD again Duane died in 1995...this BR was only 7 yrs older than Duane.

Old men and old trailers and old tales and old songs and old taverns just seem to go on and on.

BR was local (WASHINGTON) & he was a jumper & now we can prove a connection between him and Duane.

Does this prove Weber was Cooper? NO, but it sure opens up a bag of snakes. Who will remember this BR from so long ago and his friend who sang songs at the Corner Tavern for his drinks.

FACE it the CORNER tavern WAS in the FLIGHT path. The man lived in the woods not far from there. In 2001 it was not populated - just a tavern and a feed store in the middle of nowhere.

In 2010 I couldn't even find the building it had been torn down and there was NEW development all over.

Take a 1971 map and look at it real GOOD! The parallel power lines and the VOR - The corner Tavern was in between them.

Betcha this guy had some pretty good communication skills from what I was able to find on the name after the 2001 trip with the crew. The kind of work he did! YEA! I do know that much!

I had found a BR, but didn't know about the instrument with the BRR. The connection between BR & BRR was only found in the last few days because someone on this thread challenged me on something & I was pulling old files.

NO one WILL ever believe the truths and how simple the truth was. He was older than Duane by about 7 yrs.

Communications, jumping and same age category and died within a yr of each other....wonder if he worked at the Dam - was he the one on duty that night.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Joachim77

I'm new here and a Cooper novice, but one thing I wonder after having read about him here and other places on the net - I haven't found anything about who he could have been if he didn't survive. I see that the official stand is that "he probably didn't survive the jump". So aren't there any "good suspects" that were never seen again after the incident? And if not - doesn't it make it much more probable that he made it?

STRANGE - your avatar name is one I am VERY familiar with - and old friend of Duane's. What are your origins -
Washington state and of indian descent?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[ParrotheadVol 70]

skyjack71

***I'm new here and a Cooper novice, but one thing I wonder after having read about him here and other places on the net - I haven't found anything about who he could have been if he didn't survive. I see that the official stand is that "he probably didn't survive the jump". So aren't there any "good suspects" that were never seen again after the incident? And if not - doesn't it make it much more probable that he made it?

STRANGE - your avatar name is one I am VERY familiar with - and old friend of Duane's. What are your origins -
Washington state and of indian descent?

Well, I certainly didn't see that coming!!

"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider