DB Cooper

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert: Beautifull tree, Is the angel hand made? Merry Xmas. Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

To All of you Monitoring Drop Zone and those that post on Drop Zone . Shelley and I wish every one a very mery Christmas. Best Wishes to all. Jerry

[MeyerLouie 5]

Remember the nice, elderly lady at the symposium who talked about driving north on I-5 on November 24, 1971? She said the weather was terribly windy and rainy. I spoke up too at the symposium and said I had been on I-5 and the Columbia Gorge that night -- it was one of the worst weather nights, in terms of rain and wind, I have experienced in the Gorge, before or since. A respected journalist told me that the owner of the Ariel Tavern described the weather that night as "horrible." I have to agree with Jerry, eyewitness testimony is hard to beat.

[georger 197]

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Remember the nice, elderly lady at the symposium who talked about driving north on I-5 on November 24, 1971? She said the weather was terribly windy and rainy. I spoke up too at the symposium and said I had been on I-5 and the Columbia Gorge that night -- it was one of the worst weather nights, in terms of rain and wind, I have experienced in the Gorge, before or since. A respected journalist told me that the owner of the Ariel Tavern described the weather that night as "horrible." I have to agree with Jerry, eyewitness testimony is hard to beat.

Please define GORGE!

What area boundaries are you talking about?

Where did you encounter storm(s)?
Area bounded by what on the north, east, west,
south ??? Names of cities, towns, villages affected?

What was the time frame?

Please be specific. Reports need to have specifics
to be of any use.

Thanks.
G.

[hangdiver 1]

Happy Holidays to all here on DZ and to those who celebrate Christmas and Hanukkah or whatever it is you celebrate this time of year.

I personally celebrate the Winter Solstice as I'm glad the days are getting longer.

I'm still in the process of moving to my ranch...known as the Xranch...it's been 10 years since I've lived here and feels good to be back.

I don't have much time right now for Cooper Sleuthing but I will soon after I'm settled in.

Here's the sunrise on my 59th birthday the other day over the Xranch...

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Orange1 0]

Belated happy birthday Hangdiver

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Robert99 37]

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Remember the nice, elderly lady at the symposium who talked about driving north on I-5 on November 24, 1971? She said the weather was terribly windy and rainy. I spoke up too at the symposium and said I had been on I-5 and the Columbia Gorge that night -- it was one of the worst weather nights, in terms of rain and wind, I have experienced in the Gorge, before or since. A respected journalist told me that the owner of the Ariel Tavern described the weather that night as "horrible." I have to agree with Jerry, eyewitness testimony is hard to beat.

Just exactly where is this famous Columbia Gorge that you mention? Also, what time of day did the dear lady drive through the area?

While I have driven I-5 from the Oregon/California border to Seattle, I don't remember anything exceptional about the geography, at least gorge wise.

If you want to see some rough terrain, you should visit Arizona. But be sure to bring your passport, you will probably need it at the AZ immigration checkpoints in the northern part of the state.

ADDENDUM: I obviously should have read the rest of the new posts before posting the above. Georger covers the point in his usual excellent style.

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert:The Columbia River Gorge runs from Portland too the Dalles. Im shocked you have never heard of this. Jerry

[Robert99 37]

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Robert:The Columbia River Gorge runs from Portland too the Dalles. Im shocked you have never heard of this. Jerry

Maybe I haven't heard of it but I have driven through most of it. Doesn't the wind typically enter the gorge east of Portland/Vancouver and continue on east?

The weather the lady was describing was a considerable distance east of any flight path that the hijacked airliner would be on.

[Farflung 0]

In order to establish validity a person MUST be a long time native of an area AND state that whatever event was “the worst I ever seen”. For those trying to follow along, this is from page four, paragraph two of the BSer’s guide to interpersonal communications.

Using this technique instantly quells any skepticism in the disinterested or easily swayed, for people not in one of those groups it don’t work so good.

I do wonder if these people could name the second worst storm they experienced and the date. OK, that was a lie; I never wonder that since they don’t know because the above is simply hyperbole and nothing more.

The worst storm in Portland’s history according to Wikipedia was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day_Storm_of_1962

Lawd have mercy, that sounds almost as bad as the lashing Portland took on that Thanksgiving Eve in ’71 (cough, bullshit, cough).

Next is Phase II of the recovery with some painfully weak explanations. These long term residents did not live there in ’62 so that explains that (insert long uncomfortable pause). I guess I’m a lucky one because I’ve only had a handful of meteorologically driven memories in my life and they were actually given names like: Hurricane Frederick, Typhoon Vanessa and Blowing Betty. Actually the last one was a waitress from a Cracker Barrel but I can remember her very well, so I thought she met inclusion.

The above can be combined with asymmetric philosophies where one day a person decries how they interview living, eye witnesses as a superior source of information. This is then followed by ignoring eye witnesses on a different event because they have a report from a computer which is now better. Oh, and because the second eye witness had an account that did not match a pre determined story. Almost forgot about that part.

[JerryThomas 0]

Farflung: That was a bad storm, I was living at 82nd an Freemont st. in Portland. I remember it will. Lost power so a small power plant on the washougal river was placed on line.The power plant ,at least portions of it, still remains there. Jerry

[Robert99 37]

Quote

In order to establish validity a person MUST be a long time native of an area AND state that whatever event was “the worst I ever seen”. For those trying to follow along, this is from page four, paragraph two of the BSer’s guide to interpersonal communications.

Using this technique instantly quells any skepticism in the disinterested or easily swayed, for people not in one of those groups it don’t work so good.

I do wonder if these people could name the second worst storm they experienced and the date. OK, that was a lie; I never wonder that since they don’t know because the above is simply hyperbole and nothing more.

The worst storm in Portland’s history according to Wikipedia was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Day_Storm_of_1962

Lawd have mercy, that sounds almost as bad as the lashing Portland took on that Thanksgiving Eve in ’71 (cough, bullshit, cough).

Next is Phase II of the recovery with some painfully weak explanations. These long term residents did not live there in ’62 so that explains that (insert long uncomfortable pause). I guess I’m a lucky one because I’ve only had a handful of meteorologically driven memories in my life and they were actually given names like: Hurricane Frederick, Typhoon Vanessa and Blowing Betty. Actually the last one was a waitress from a Cracker Barrel but I can remember her very well, so I thought she met inclusion.

The above can be combined with asymmetric philosophies where one day a person decries how they interview living, eye witnesses as a superior source of information. This is then followed by ignoring eye witnesses on a different event because they have a report from a computer which is now better. Oh, and because the second eye witness had an account that did not match a pre determined story. Almost forgot about that part.

Typhoon Freda, or Tropical Storm Freda, was long gone by the 1971 date of the hijacking and no such typhoons or storms were in the area that evening.

Offhand, I would say that the Los Angeles area has more wild weather than Portland. Didn't the winds exceed 100 MPH is LA about a month ago? I seem to remember a lot of live video of trees being blown down, etc..

A number of years ago, I was headed east from LA on I-10 after such a wind storm and, in some of the un-named "gorges" along that route, trees were lying on the ground all over the place.

[Farflung 0]

I’ll give the memories of WX from 40 years past a dubious and weak plausible but little more.

I need more evidence to support these ‘I remember’ claims, so I’ve masterfully created a little memory test. You can answer one or all or none.

1. What was the weather like the day John Lennon was murdered?

2. What was the weather like during the 9-11 attacks?

3. Describe the weather during Hurricane Katrina (wherever you were).

4. What were the second and third, worst weather days in Portland (or wherever)?

5. Describe the weather on Thanksgiving, 2006.

6. What Thanksgiving had the ‘best’ weather you remember?

This seems like a fair weather memory test but I could be biased since my memory is so porous. I wonder why so many people can recall the WX on Turkeyday eve….. hmmmmm.

[mrshutter45 21]

I don't believe this woman for a second! he jumped from the plane around 8:13 and his brother was waiting for him on the ground, he was according to her badly injured and so they left washington at let's say 9:00 and drove 260 miles to Sisters Oregon arriving early in the morning according to Marla, her mother says she can't remember to much about thanksgiving 1971 and yet Marla is the only one to see a critically injured man on Thanksgiving? I have also read a story by the Mountain News who start to check her credibility in which she fires back threatening a law suit if the contact her ex husband! I think she made this whole thing up for her book and since she thinks 100% of it is real, she should then turn the profits over to Northwest airlines for reimbursement of the $200,000.

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Please define GORGE!

What area boundaries are you talking about?

Where did you encounter storm(s)?

I so NOT understand why they continue to HASH the weather as everyone knows the Weather was NOT the same from Seattle to Portland and there were breaks in this front. If the WEATHER was so bad Cooper could not jump I doubt the plane would even have taken off. After all they wanted Cooper OFF of that plane...not for him to stay on it because of bad weather.

I have absolutely NO technical answers - what I have said above is just plain common sense.

Individuals who heard the plane and some who claimed to have seen it - did NOT describe the weather as windy and stormy.

I have been told - breaks in the cloud levels - but the weather was NOT bad on the ground. One I spoke to heard the sound and rushed outside thinking it was a plane in trouble...this person had 3 other individual with him. This was North of Heisson.

Another report came from the Cougar area, but the sound was NOT overhead. This individual heard the plane and the FBI told the individual what she heard was search planes. Having been a resident of military areas as I have - she knew the sound of the chase planes versus the 727. NO way would I confuse the sound of the large jets with the sound of the smaller faster search planes.

This person could NOT see the plane, but the sound was coming from the West of her location - which would put the flight in the path the FBI orginally proclaimed.

I do NOT know how to do overlays of routes, but I know that when the thread started to shift the route South per the minutes - they did the wrong thing. Witness accounts put the plane a little more to the East at almost every point. Shift the route you guys provided up just a little and the points of eyewitness accounts is on target.
Perhaps this is just a laymans view, but also someone who has lived under and around major airports - such as Denver and Atlanta....not to even mention all of the military areas.


Since the slow-down in military training I do NOT hear these large transports (whatever they are) anymore. In fact it has been several months since I have heard those old familiar sounds. In Atanta I only lived about 1 mile from one of the runways - I do NOT even remember those sounds anymore. Not sure of the distance. My apt building was on one side of the freeway and runways were on the other side.

Sound is easy to forget or to push out of your mind frame - I expect that is the defense the brain uses to allow one to sleep when they live or work around these sounds. Those who heard the plane overhead - knew something was wrong - they did NOT normally hear a plane flying that low or over head.

Merry Christmas to those who observe this day. UPS will not run on Monday - so if your package has gotten caught up in the northern bottle neck - do NOT expect your package until Tuesday.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

RobertMBlevins speculates about relationships with:


“9) It's strictly a guess, but we believe the picture was snapped by either Bernie Christiansen, (alleged accomplice) or his wife......”



Presumably this would be Mrs. Bernie Christiansen?

I know this has been speculated about many, many times before and now it is confirmed.

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Quote

Please define GORGE!

What area boundaries are you talking about?

Where did you encounter storm(s)?

I so NOT understand why they continue to HASH the weather as everyone knows the Weather was NOT the same from Seattle to Portland and there were breaks in this front. If the WEATHER was so bad Cooper could not jump I doubt the plane would even have taken off. After all they wanted Cooper OFF of that plane...not for him to stay on it because of bad weather.

Jo, there were not any weather fronts between Seattle and Portland the evening of the hijacking. You need to look up the meaning of a weather front.

Regardless of the weather, the airliner took off because Cooper wanted to take off and he claimed to have a bomb which he would set off if they didn't take off. Their "customer" got his wish.

The crew did want him off their airplane and would probably have been utterly delighted if he had never boarded it in the first place.

[mrshutter45 21]

I have alot of proiblems with the FBI's stories, they said it was so cold that night but yet it was raining? and if indeed it was "extremely" cold why didn't the plane have icing problems? I could be wrong but was de-icing done in 71? there are so many different versions of even the correct flight path making it hard to calculate where he might of jumped, I looked up the weather in Portland 1971 Nov 24,. On November 24th, 1971, the closest available weather station to Ariel, WA (PORTLAND, OR), reported the following conditions:
High Temp: 51.1F
Low Temp: 45F
Average Temp: 48.1F
Dewpoint: 43.3F
Wind Speed: 10.8 Knots
Precipitation Amount: n/a
Snow Depth: n/a
Observations: Rain/Drizzle

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[mrshutter45 21]

most of her story is hard to swallow, how can you have such a vivid memory of all of this at age 8? she says on video she was jumping around laughing we are rich? she seems to be the only one who noticed her Uncle in critical condition on Thanksgiving? her mother stated she can't remember much of the 25 thanksgiving! so what she is saying is that he jumped and lost the money and was critically injured and then they raced back to Sisters Oregon showing up early in the morning drunk? she continues to go on about how she really didn't know him or see him much after 72 but knows he highjacked a plane was critically injured, lost the money and had a comic of Dan Cooper on his wall? all of this at age 8? AMAZING memory!!

why did he have to be injured? only because the FBI said he would be hurt or killed! all depends on where he landed, she said she never saw him after 72 but knows he had a Dan Cooper comic on his wall? now you have the best red flag available by doing a book about her knowing who DB Cooper is? this should not be allowed since this has never been proven yet who LD Cooper really is and if in fact it turns out to be true then the money should go to Northwest Airline for payment of the lost $200,000 he put alot of people in harms way with this stunt and she should not be profiting from it!!

I have never heard of a 5 and a half hour lie detecting test? can proof of this be produced? what was there 10,000 questions?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Robert I think the whole picture was just a fluke. If the newpaper you claim can be enhance to show a story about Cooper - then it shows that this was staged as a joke. Obviously if he was REALLY Cooper he would have used actual objects (briefcase, a laundry bag which would have looked more like a money bag and and the sunglasses and perhaps a chute or parts of a chute). He would have shown something in that photo that SCREAMED "I am D.B.Cooper".

Did you ever determine what kind of camera the photo was taken with. If it was developed at the local drug store - someone would have turned it in if there was any indication KC was Cooper. If it was a polaroid, then the above statement is not valid.

Kenny did NOT confess and he was local (that alone says a lot).
Kenny was a jokester from what I gather just looking at a party pic the brother sent me. Kenny liked good times and jokes.

He looks like to me he just got home off a trip with his case and had a department store bag in his hand. If he had a lay-over and time on his hands - (the mall was the place to go). I assume he was like a stewardess of sorts. Never understood what he actually did on the flights.

If his brother Lyle really believed KC was Cooper why didn't he approach the FBI first instead of a movie producer or P.I.?

Not sure I remember - but when Kenny approached Porteous had he not already contacted a movie producer or a book writer?
Lyles own actions indicate he did NOT actually believe his brother was Cooper - but curious.

In comparision I called the FBI same night I understood what Duane had told me. That was the night I learned that DAN COOOPER was D.B. Cooper and until that night the things he said and showed me and told me - just made no sense.

By comparision I left the situation in the hands of the FBI until - an FBI told me things on the phone that were contradictive to my research and that of Doug Pasternac. I was holding in my own hands...the McNeil Prison file and the Army record. I will never forget what the agent told me that day (THE serial number in the ARMY belonged to a WAVY GREENE). Things I have found since that time - are more of an indication the FBI has NOT been straight with me and that there was more to Weber than what I have been told.

Curious! I just remembered that we had a Mr. Green who posted here and I exchanged some personal emails with him. He had an interesting story - BUT NOW it seems to be a little more important....since the FBI told me Duane's Army Serial number belonged to WAVY GREEN. Wonder why typing this post of the memory seems important. Only Mr. Green can answer that I guess.


ROBERT99:
Regarding Fronts: I am not a weather forecaster and do NOT use the technical terms. I only go by what the forecasters say on TV - such as we have a cold front coming in. YOU knew WHAT I was saying, but you prefer to PICK PICK PICK on casual comments I make - you must be a former teacher by profession.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 21]

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I have never heard of a 5 and a half hour lie detecting test? can proof of this be produced? what was there 10,000 questions?

Marla explained at the symposium that she was not connected to a polygraph for five hours but that her session with the FBI was about five hours in duration. What seemed odd to me is her claim that the FBI told he she "passed." I never saw that when witnesses were given polygraphs by law enforcement agencies. They were not informed of the results at the end of the exam. Written reports were prepared. There was no real time feedback from the examiner.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[mrshutter45 21]

The case that Kenny is holding in the photo look very much like a Pilots briefcase that opens on the top, also looks like he is only pinching the bag like it is not heavy , and was the door open already? because he is half way in and should be coming up if he put something down in order to open the door then reach down and pick it up where you would see him coming in a upward postion?

"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

She explained at the symposium that she was not connected to a polygraph for five hours but that her session with the FBI was about five hours in duration. What seemed odd to me is her claim that the FBI told he she "passed." I never saw that when witnesses were given polygraphs by law enforcement agencies. They were not informed of the results at the end of the exam. Written reports were prepared. There was no real time feedback from the examiner.

377

The FBI didn't even ask me to take one. I guess that was because I didn't have anything to say other than what Duane told me.

They could have asked me about the trip, but until I went out there and found the places myself - I expect it would not have been valid. I was able to describe the places, but until I went out there even I didn't know the names of the places - all I had was my visual memory and what others told me regarding the places I tried to describe to them.

Years ago, if I had had the money to go to WA and to have stayed on my own and drove the area as I did in 2010 this could have been over with and we would not be having this discussion.

I also realize that most of my efforts are NOW futile, but it just does NOT matter. I know what I know and what I saw and what I was told. I also know how much the time lines fit together regarding Weber before and after the crime. Even things that happened after he and I married.

If my convictions where NOT strong and if I was seeking something other than the truth and if my heart had any doubts at all about the thing I have told over the last 15 yr I would NOT be able to continue this quest.

I have always thought and believed there was NOTHING impossible as long as one had heart and convictions and followed the rules of life. Well, there is a force out there called Government Bureaucracy that can squash determination and they have the power to make decisions that can alter right and wrong, creating the impossible factor.

Still I will remain strong in my convictions until I draw my last breath on this earth. NO one can take away my memories - and what I know in my heart and soul (if I have one). I do NOT know if I can continue to fight the bureaucracy or if it is even possible.

Daddy always said "truth and honesty will carry you far in life" but perhaps he was wrong. I suppose the key words are "carry you far in life" - that is not saying Truth and honesty will always win.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

The case that Kenny is holding in the photo look very much like a Pilots briefcase that opens on the top, also looks like he is only pinching the bag like it is not heavy , and was the door open already? because he is half way in and should be coming up if he put something down in order to open the door then reach down and pick it up where you would see him coming in a upward postion?

Shutters on a camera! Only a photographer or shutter bug or criminal photographer would have caught that one. Once these things are pointed out, there is NO other answer.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Farflung 0]

Here is an overview video of Cooper-geddon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCAouwIn-Po&context=C319fc98ADOEgsToPDskILNooiAtqTF2gyNdcu6nv8