Amazon 7 #27501 November 20, 2011 QuoteQuote According to the set up on my computer JT we have NOT arrived to page 1110 yet! . I'm on p1146. Other than that no comment on this useless Jo-Jerry debate, come on guys, it's wasting bandwidth like this just gives ammo to the guys wanting to shut this thread down. Can you at least TRY focus on the subject rather than continuously accuse each other of lies and threats? I am at page 287... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ParrotheadVol 70 #27502 November 20, 2011 Hello, this is my first post on this forum. I have been lurking about for quite a while as I am very fascinated in the DB Cooper story. I don't do a lot of posting on forums, but I have thoroughly enjoyed reading through this one. I have a simple question and I figured this would be the perfect place to get an answer. I recently read the book "Skyjack" by Geoffrey Gray. I couldn't put it down. But I thought the ending was a bit weird. Now, I didn't purchase the physical book, but rather bought the Kindle version. The book ends with Jo Webber calling Gray and mentioning something about a recipe. Then it's over, except for some notes with sources and such. I just wondered if perhaps there may have been an error with the Kindle version and the full book wasn't there. I just found it to be an odd ending, even though this mystery continues and perhaps that was the point. So is this in fact the actual ending of the book? Just want to make sure, because if there is more I want to read it. Also, any other Cooper books that you would recommend? (And Jerry, Oregon sucks)"They were saying he was never gonna make it now, now that daylight had set in. But later that night, they were shining those lights back down on that mountain again." - Todd Snider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27503 November 20, 2011 Also, any other Cooper books that you would recommend? Quote Besides Geoffrey's account, I recommend what I call the Big Three: 1. DB Cooper - The Real McCoy, by Bernie Rhodes and Russ Calame. 2. NORJAK: The Investigation of DB Cooper, by Tom Worcester and Ralph Himmelsbach 3. DB Cooper - Dead or Alive, by Richard Tosaw. These are all written by principals active in the case, and in my judgement these works could never be written today. It is hard for me to envision a current FBI agent writing about the Cooper case with as much insight and provocative questioning as does Russ Calame. Yes, Geoffrey's book ends inexplictably with Jo's hysterical phone call to his cabin in the woods. Oddly, I received a very similar - and hysterical - phone call from Ms Weber about the same time. I forget if the topic was cherry cheescake recipes, though; it seems every time that subject was raised my mind wandered as I pondered what I might have in my cabin that I could munch on.....ahhhh..I love New York cheesecake, but it is so hard to find in the boonies south of Tacoma. And bagels and lox, sigh. Such is life in Cooper Country. Must keep writing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #27504 November 20, 2011 ParrotheadVol writesQuoteThe book ends with Jo Webber calling Gray and mentioning something about a recipe. Then it's over... That's really the end. Could it be a setup for a sequel? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #27505 November 20, 2011 Bruce, Are you following up on that increible story about Braden going back to Nam after his discharge? Even if it wasn't true, why was it told? The Army Chief of Staff personally intervened in Bradens AWOL prosecution and halted it??? That by itself raises about 2000 lbs of questions. What gave Braden such power? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #27506 November 20, 2011 QuoteParrotheadVol writesQuoteThe book ends with Jo Webber calling Gray and mentioning something about a recipe. Then it's over... That's really the end. Could it be a setup for a sequel? 377 You were sitting right next to him in San Francisco drinkin' brewskis, Three-Seven-Seven. Did GG seem eager to get back in the saddle and gallop off to continue the Cooper Quest, such as head towards Windsor and talk with Sheridan? He didn't to me. I think Geoffrey's done. Although, Portland and the symposium could dramatically enhance his "brand," and his reputation as an expert in the case. As a result, he might just turn into the Old Man River of the Cooper investigation, and like the Mississippi, just keep rollin' along. Also, if his ties to the FBI continue or strenghten, then Gawd knows what will occur in the future. He might become their de facto spokesperson, as Jerry and Ralph don't seem to be quite up to the job; I get the sense they won't be at Ariel or Portland next week. Nevertheless, Jerry seems quite busy this week giving media tours in the Washougal, so, he might surprise us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #27507 November 20, 2011 Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Not good, considering he was an FBI agent. You kind of forgot that part, Bruce. Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #27508 November 20, 2011 QuoteTravel on a bus? Leave zero evidence? Ted Kaczynski!! Think about this! How profiling did NOT work. How many profiles did the FBI - put regarding kaczynski? Several. Only one of those profiles came close to Kaczynski. The FBI actually almost had Kaczynski one time - and it got screwed up by erroneous profiling. It took a family member to direct the FBI to Kaczynski. Does this story NOT sound a little familiar? Does this not make one think? Could the FBI have screwed up on Cooper? We have discussed Kaczynski before, but most fail to recognize the fact that Ted slipped under the wire for yrs and yrs. Had it not have been for family members - perhaps he would have continued his personal vendetta and have maimed and kill even more individuals. Profiling has been all over the board regarding Cooper. There are the official profiles and there are profiles proposed by members of the forum.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #27509 November 20, 2011 QuoteBruce, Are you following up on that increible story about Braden going back to Nam after his discharge? Even if it wasn't true, why was it told? The Army Chief of Staff personally intervened in Bradens AWOL prosecution and halted it??? That by itself raises about 2000 lbs of questions. What gave Braden such power? 377 The short answer is "yes and no." Yes, the fact that an active duty IG major told Hank the Ted-was-in-Vietnam-in 1973 AND got-promoted- twice-story is extraordinary. It might be the first crack in the armor-plating surrounding the DB Cooper case. I've encouraged Hank to continue to whittle away through his military contacts - the retired officers directory, etc, and try to find that major. We clearly need more information about why that major said what he said. Along those lines, I have emailed our old friend Billy Waugh, but I received only the most cryptic email in reply that was so filled with military jargon that I couldn't decipher it, but the message I took away from that was - "I ain't talking about Ted, at least not in writing." Hence, I gotta call the ole boy or take a vacation on the Panhandle and check up on my favorite Dixie Belle, Jo Weber, and then visit some of her neighbors.... I also plan to call The Wife and Noreen in Pittsburgh. Lastly, I'm hoping that Tom Smith can shake some branches down in Tampa. He has extensive connections to people and places that we need to delve into. Lastly, lastly, I have gone looking for DB Cooper on several occaisions in the ethers, and also paid Ted a visit in one of my guided remote viewing sessions. For what it's worth, I have been "informed" on two occaisons that DB Cooper was named "Richard," and was in a unit more secretive than MACV SOG, but was based in part at Bragg. That said, I apply the same standards to my research as I do to Mr. Blevins, namely, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What I take from that is Ted is not Cooper, but may be an avenue that gets us to Cooper. Hence, the journey continues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #27510 November 20, 2011 Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. Well...McCoy was a no-ID by the witnesses, then there was that court case in Utah... You know what? Do your own research on this one. Unless you are claiming now that McCoy was the hijacker. There is no middle ground here. Either he was or wasn't. Last time I heard, you thought the hijacker was maybe Gossett, or Bobby Dayton, or you were going to figure it out via hypnosis and astral projection...(*smiles*) How did that work out for you? I can direct you to your posts on this if you like. You'll also have to show evidence that Ralph Himmelsbach now believes McCoy was the hijacker. Last time I heard, he hadn't settled on anybody specific. I mean now, in 2011. I'm a hard guy sometimes. Not just on you, but on anyone who testifies on something regarding the Cooper case. At one time, McCoy was considered a viable suspect. Later, that whole scenario collapsed like a house of cards. To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. I would have to see the actual credit card receipts to believe that part regarding Vegas. Anybody seen them? *Question Everything* Quote You're dodging the question, Robert. I asked you how you know that McCoy's alibi was corroborated. You answered, "a No-ID by the witnesses." Hunh? What witnesses? Witnesses in Las Vegas? Or are you talking about his alibi being corroborated by his wife? Sister-in-law? Is that what the Seattle office accepted - the word of family members over concrete evidence from a Salt Lake City-based FBI invesitgatory team? What court case are you talking about? McCoy's conviction in his skyjacking case? What does that have to do with November 24, 1971 and the gas receipts? And suspects? I don't have any; I agree with you that Ralph doesn't either. In that way, Himms and I are similar. But what does the subject of suspects have to do with the question at hand, namely McCoy's whereabouts on Thanksgiving 1971? For the record, do I think McCoy was Cooper? Absolutely not. That said, however, I do wonder if the truth is much bigger than that. I do wonder if the Cooper caper was a group effort and McCoy was involved in some fashion. Further, you wonder about the factual basis of Calame's claims? Do you really think Calame is mistaken - or deceitful - about the credit cards and the collect phone call? Why? Look Robert, if you don't know why the Seattle office accepted McCoy's alibi, just say so. There is great honor in not knowing, and even greater in acknowledging it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #27511 November 20, 2011 Robert states: Quote Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Not good, considering he was an FBI agent. You kind of forgot that part, Bruce. Bruce then states: Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. OKAY! Even Himmelsbachs book has errors, as he was using someone else to write the book. Himmelsbach did NOT catch all of the errors and some slipped by him and into print. Mr. Himmelsbach and I discussed this more than once. I do not remember the discussion laid out in front of me regarding McCoy, but it did prove that McCoy could NOT have been Cooper in 1971. Himmelsbach does NOT back Calame up 100%. It had to do with time lines and distance. I had NO reason to remember the discussion about McCoy. Also NOTE that the wife of McCoy sued the writer and she won...out of court. If the writer used one thing that was erroneous might there not have been other things? (WHY do you think it was settled OUT of Court?) You might be surprised at what you find. Maybe you would like to talk to McCoy's widow. She will probably NOT talk with you, but maybe you can use your "charm" and get where others have not been. Perhaps she signed an agreement with the writer at settlement - you think? I have the contact information, but it might take a few days to find it. It was in some materials I recently went through. Did you have another interview with Himmelsbach? Did YOU record his statement regarding McCoy? Himmelsbach's opinions regarding suspects has changed over the yrs....it has to. In his heart he will always be an FBI agent. FBI agents do NOT guarantee anything 100%. I am NOT a Dixie Belle and never will be...and I do not associate with my neighbors. I only have one neighbor I have anything to do with - the others know little about me other than I am an eccentric about my yard and my privacy. So you are going to pull a JT - that won't get you any brownies. I was not talking about points - perhap some MJ and Antifreeze laced brownies....pick your poison.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27512 November 20, 2011 To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27513 November 20, 2011 before finally being killed by FBI agents in Virginia Beach. * where Duane and Jo would move later - Duaner driving Jo by McCoy's house. Ooooooooops. Jo says Duaner felt sohhh sorri that "he" Duane had caused McCoy to be killed; McCoy copying Duane/Cooper! Otherwise McCoy would have gone on to find the cure for polio and diabetes (and the Cooper Curse). Gag me with a silver buffalo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27514 November 20, 2011 Quote Quote To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Somewhat older. How much exactly is impolite to ask, but if you had read Blast, you would know I was a soph at Sumner High at the time of the hijacking. And it's not how long you've been following the case that is most important. It's what you've learned along the way. So as a Sophomore in HS you began studying the FBI and DB Cooper case, like Mileva Maric studied calculus and helped her husband re-write his notes? Blevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer/clerk! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #27515 November 20, 2011 Attached is an article from the trial involving Karen Burns McCoy (aka ‘A Headless Corpse’) where the reason for pulling the book appears to have nothing to do with McCoy being in the Beehive State for turkey and that cranberry sauce that is served in a cylindrical form with the ribs from the can still visible. Nope. Looks like the lion’s share of the settlement came from a lawyer who Karen McCoy had intended to write a book with and was scorned, deceived and betrayed. Well played Attorney Taylor crossing a woman who was hip deep in a crime for money without regard for her husband or children. Hard to believe that one came home to roost, I mean all the women I’ve violated have simply forgotten the transgressions and gone on to lead happy and revenge free lives. Bit of bad luck in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27516 November 20, 2011 Quote Attached is an article from the trial involving Karen Burns McCoy (aka ‘A Headless Corpse’) where the reason for pulling the book appears to have nothing to do with McCoy being in the Beehive State for turkey and that cranberry sauce that is served in a cylindrical form with the ribs from the can still visible. Nope. Looks like the lion’s share of the settlement came from a lawyer who Karen McCoy had intended to write a book with and was scorned, deceived and betrayed. Well played Attorney Taylor crossing a woman who was hip deep in a crime for money without regard for her husband or children. Hard to believe that one came home to roost, I mean all the women I’ve violated have simply forgotten the transgressions and gone on to lead happy and revenge free lives. Bit of bad luck in this case. And Blevins studied it all at Wikipedia in .... 1792! Blevins has justestablished himself as an "ole timer" long involved and friend of the FBI since, the first one celled bacterium (named Fred)! George Washington MOVE OVER! RobertMBlevins ..... has arrived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27517 November 20, 2011 QuoteI never said Karen McCoy was guilt-free. I only said that the book had been pulled and that the witnesses did not ID McCoy as Cooper. Both are true. Unless you are now saying that McCoy WAS Cooper. Proof please. You have me confused with Harry Hopkins. I havent said anything about that topic ... Karen Moskovitz? Karen who? PUT ON YOUR GLASSES PRES. O'BLEVINS. nighty nite, dont let the bed bugs bite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #27518 November 20, 2011 Georger wroteQuoteBlevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer Speaking of Einstein, some neutrinos have recently been clocked busting his speed limit in Switzerland. Was he wrong Georger? Is nothing sacred? I got considerable comfort thinking that nothing in the entire universe was faster than the 14 MHz EM waves propagating from my Snowmann designed antenna. Now I think I may be driving a old VW in the slow lane. McCoy's turkey alibi was never proven to my satisfaction. Neither was Mayfield's alibi. Doesn't make either of them Cooper though. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #27519 November 20, 2011 I guess I just don’t comprehend so good and my sintax is death. It’s clear that you NEVER said any such thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Robert99 37 #27520 November 20, 2011 Quote Quote Quote To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Somewhat older. How much exactly is impolite to ask, but if you had read Blast, you would know I was a soph at Sumner High at the time of the hijacking. And it's not how long you've been following the case that is most important. It's what you've learned along the way. So as a Sophomore in HS you began studying the FBI and DB Cooper case, like Mileva Maric studied calculus and helped her husband re-write his notes? Blevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer/clerk! Georger, Now that Al's brain is on public display, perhaps someone could download his memory cells and determine if Mileva deserves any credit. But she did get the money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #27521 November 20, 2011 Quote@Bruce Smith: The book D.B. Cooper -The Real McCoy had to be pulled from publication after it was established that Richard Floyd McCoy was actually in Utah at the time of the hijacking. Haven't you even checked Wiki for the basics? Quote Here's the Wiki post on McCoy. I don't see where it refutes his presence in Las Vagas as claimed by Calame and Himmelsbach, or supports his alibi of being in Provo on Thanksgiving as claimed by the Seattle office and touted by you in these posts. Can you explain? ******************************** Lawsuits over Cooper allegations1991 saw the publication of D. B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by FBI agents Bernie Rhodes and Russell P. Calame. Both authors investigated McCoy's skyjacking case, and their book posits that Cooper and McCoy were really the same person. They cited similar methods of hijacking, and a tie and Brigham Young University medallion with McCoy's initials on the back left on the plane by Cooper. After the book's publication, McCoy's widow filed suit against the book's authors, publisher and her former attorney, Thomas S. Taylor. She claimed they misrepresented her involvement in the hijacking for which McCoy was convicted, and also misrepresented later events from interviews done with Taylor in the 1970s. She sought an injunction against publication and distribution of the book.[9] During court proceedings, it was revealed that McCoy's widow was deeply involved in the hijacking. Her request for an injunction to prohibit further sales of the book was denied. However, an injunction to prohibit the sale of movie rights to the book — conditional upon the movie including references to four specific allegations in the book that she protested — was granted.[10] Mrs. McCoy accepted a settlement in 1994. ************************************* Also, what is your source for saying that multiple witnesses established McCoy's presence in Utah on Thanksgiving Day. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27522 November 20, 2011 Georger, Now that Al's brain is on public display, perhaps someone could download his memory cells and determine if Mileva deserves any credit. But she did get the money. Its a wild goose chase. In spite of Dord Krstic's efforts, there is nothing to show that Mileva supplied any of the crucial ideas or the mathematics to Albert. If anyone was going to do that it would have been someone like Marcel Grossman who actually collaborated with Albert and was even superior to Albert in some areas of statistical analysis. Albert went through a period where he and Grossman worked together continually to develop certain mathematical explications together. During this period Albert was very reliant on Grossman for mathematical ideas ... because Marcel was a pure mathematician vs Albert who was more technically inclined, concerned with theoretical matters in physics. For one thing, Mileva was older than Albert. She had already been atthe Institute, first pursuing a medical career (at her father's wish), before Albert showed up. She fell hard for Albert when he came on the scene but course records show she was never on Albert's level mathematically, and in factshe failed several crucial lab courses and was not passed, whereas Albert skated along easily in the same work. Albert even tried to intercede on Mileva's behalf after she failed and her academic work was over, but it did no good. Some people think she even seduced Albert. They went off and spent a lost weekend traveling out of which she became pregnant, quit her course work, and returned to her family. It proved a large disruption with Albert feeling guilty, Albert went and retrieved her, and they returned to Zurich where they both reenrolled at the Institute. She failed but Albert passed. Hans Albert was born. The rest is history. But the Mileva story is very persistent. My grandmother even heard it in the 30s while doing work at the U of Colorado. (Albert gave over his Nobel Prize money to Mileva with which she bought several rental properties to support herself and the children; the rental properties eventually failed, Mileva took in work and tutored people (in math!), family helped from her father's estate, and Albert helped more financially. Once Hans Albert was old enough he helped financially to his mother, ) I have heard the Mileva story at least 5 times in different versions from people who knew Albert at Princeton, from people who knew and worked closely with Hans Albert, and from people who were close to Erwin Fraundlich who worked with Albert. On the other hand, I have never heard this story outside this group from the many people who knew and worked with Albert and I have never heard that Albert brought this matter up, with anyone. No one has ever been able to present any documentation that Mileva supplied specific ideas or mathematical work which Albert used directly. In contrast to that, there are documents which show Mileva making spelling and syntax corrections (in her handwriting) to someof Albert's "lecture notes", once he was teaching. Historians say that Mileva was nothing more than a sounding board and a secretary to Albert. Mileva never claimed any ownership or serious input into Alberts work. Hans Albert never claimed that. But after Hans Albert's death his wife Elizabeth surfaced trying to secure and preserve Einstein family papers, she met several times with the Serbian Nationalist Dord Krstic in a trip to Europe, and Dord began promoting the idea that Mileva had somehow played a crucial role in Albert's work, in spite of their being nothing to show that. Eventually, Krstic published a book titled: "Mileva & Albert Einstein: Their Love and Scientific Collaboration" - private publication. I know people who worked with Hans Albert's wife closely and have discussed this whole issue with them. I have spoken with Krstic several times. Dord sent me a copy of his book to review, but I declined. I have even spoken with people who knew Erwin Freundlich well but there is nothing has ever surfaced to substantiate Krstic's claims in behalf of Mileva Maric. What does exist is a deep family history for both Albert and Mileva which includes the time of their marraige and particulars of that. Albert was always very loyal and concerned over Mileva's needs, and the same for his children. Albert and his son Hans grew tobe very close. Hans for example was a very well adjusted indivdual with a marvelous long life, both professionally and personally. The records at the Institute show that Mileva was never on Albert or Grossman's same level, even remotely. Her mathematical skills were weak even for the program in medicine at the time. The program in physics was even more demanding, mathematically. She wore out persuing a medical career as her father had requested, she had just switched to a physics course trying to find some niche for herself as an instructor when Albert came on the scene. She was tired from the pressure from her father, from the arduous path she had traveled just to get to the Institute, tired of the academic strains, and she had a congenital condition and was crippled which was physically straining. Mileva's father thought she was un-marraigable so had pushed her to find some profession where she could support herself. Meeting Albert changed all of that. Albert had several very serious arguements with her father on trips they took back to meet Mileva's family. Mileva's father threw Albert out of the house on one of these ocassions! It took time to mend fences with the father. There is no question that Albert cared about Mileva, and they had a number of very rewarding years togther, to their mutual benefit at the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #27523 November 20, 2011 Quote On a more serious note, you can find questions posted to David Winder, interviews with Calame, Carr, and Tosaw, and info on McCoy HERE. The two basic reasons I never believed McCoy was Cooper are actually pretty simple. First, he was 29 years old and the witnesses all said the hijacker was mid to late forties. Second, in order to pull it off, you would have to believe McCoy caught a flight from Utah to Portland, another to Seattle for the hijacking, managed to jump and make his way back to the same airport where the FBI was already looking for him, and then catch another flight back from there to Vegas without being detected. And that he did all this in thirty-six hours...and that none of the stews recognized him from pictures presented to them later. It's a tough stretch. Witnesses in the McCoy hijacking said McCoy was loud and threatening, brandishing a grenade (fake) and a pistol. That demeanor doesn't really match what we know about Cooper's behavior. I think the FBI was right when they finally wrote him off. Since this guy still has his supporters, I will respect that to a degree, but the above is my opinion on the McCoy subject. I really want to know. Do you even read the posts or is shooting from the hip and mis-direction just your m.o.? This whole series of posts got started because BruceSmith gave someone a list of books to reference and, while doing so, also gave his opinion that the author of one of the books was insightful and provocative. You disagreed and based that on assertions that it was established that McCoy was in Utah eating turkey, and for Calame not to find that out obviously means he wasn't a good writer/FBI agent. Oh yeah..and there was a lawsuit and the book was pulled so that proves it too. Bruce asked for validation of your statements - even though he also said that he did not necessarily agree with Calame's conclusion that McCoy = Cooper. You said you didn't say what you said and challenged Bruce to do his own research to verify YOUR statements?? Farflung then shows that you did say what you said (that you said you didn't say) so you try to deflect that by making a joke and posting the astronaut story again (for about the fourth time, I might add). But I digress..... Then you ultimately end up with this - like the whole thing was about McCoy being Cooper? I don't think anyone in the posts was even arguing or agreeing that McCoy was Cooper - just wanted you to show the basis for your Calame challenge about Thanksgiving dinner and show how Calame was wrong about receipts, etc. I, for one, have often wondered about this discrepancy and, as far as I know it has never been explained. So if you have a source, I think Bruce was asking, as I am - hey I'd really like to know. Oh wait....silly silly me.....that same Seattle office that is batting zero on DNA, fingerprints, and eye witness accounts as far as YOUR suspect is concerned... is johnny-on the-flipping spot when it comes to McCoy. I'm sorry....no it's not gang up on Blevins day, and I'm not a Cooper = McCoy proponent either.....but geez louise.....you just leave me flabbergasted sometimes. And i always think to myself - don't even post - it's just too silly. Then I think - no - he's begging for intervention, help him. Then I can't help myself. I have no choice in the matter. Some things just have to be said. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,064 #27524 November 20, 2011 Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #27525 November 20, 2011 Quote Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Here's a clicky. http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/11/lost_northwest_books_db_cooper.html The book's been mentioned on here before but forget whether anyone ever actually read it or critiqued it as to being satire or serious . I've kinda sorta without enthusiasm contemplated getting it but never enough to actually push the "place in cart" button. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 Next Page 1101 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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377 21 #27504 November 20, 2011 ParrotheadVol writesQuoteThe book ends with Jo Webber calling Gray and mentioning something about a recipe. Then it's over... That's really the end. Could it be a setup for a sequel? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #27505 November 20, 2011 Bruce, Are you following up on that increible story about Braden going back to Nam after his discharge? Even if it wasn't true, why was it told? The Army Chief of Staff personally intervened in Bradens AWOL prosecution and halted it??? That by itself raises about 2000 lbs of questions. What gave Braden such power? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27506 November 20, 2011 QuoteParrotheadVol writesQuoteThe book ends with Jo Webber calling Gray and mentioning something about a recipe. Then it's over... That's really the end. Could it be a setup for a sequel? 377 You were sitting right next to him in San Francisco drinkin' brewskis, Three-Seven-Seven. Did GG seem eager to get back in the saddle and gallop off to continue the Cooper Quest, such as head towards Windsor and talk with Sheridan? He didn't to me. I think Geoffrey's done. Although, Portland and the symposium could dramatically enhance his "brand," and his reputation as an expert in the case. As a result, he might just turn into the Old Man River of the Cooper investigation, and like the Mississippi, just keep rollin' along. Also, if his ties to the FBI continue or strenghten, then Gawd knows what will occur in the future. He might become their de facto spokesperson, as Jerry and Ralph don't seem to be quite up to the job; I get the sense they won't be at Ariel or Portland next week. Nevertheless, Jerry seems quite busy this week giving media tours in the Washougal, so, he might surprise us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27507 November 20, 2011 Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Not good, considering he was an FBI agent. You kind of forgot that part, Bruce. Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #27508 November 20, 2011 QuoteTravel on a bus? Leave zero evidence? Ted Kaczynski!! Think about this! How profiling did NOT work. How many profiles did the FBI - put regarding kaczynski? Several. Only one of those profiles came close to Kaczynski. The FBI actually almost had Kaczynski one time - and it got screwed up by erroneous profiling. It took a family member to direct the FBI to Kaczynski. Does this story NOT sound a little familiar? Does this not make one think? Could the FBI have screwed up on Cooper? We have discussed Kaczynski before, but most fail to recognize the fact that Ted slipped under the wire for yrs and yrs. Had it not have been for family members - perhaps he would have continued his personal vendetta and have maimed and kill even more individuals. Profiling has been all over the board regarding Cooper. There are the official profiles and there are profiles proposed by members of the forum.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27509 November 20, 2011 QuoteBruce, Are you following up on that increible story about Braden going back to Nam after his discharge? Even if it wasn't true, why was it told? The Army Chief of Staff personally intervened in Bradens AWOL prosecution and halted it??? That by itself raises about 2000 lbs of questions. What gave Braden such power? 377 The short answer is "yes and no." Yes, the fact that an active duty IG major told Hank the Ted-was-in-Vietnam-in 1973 AND got-promoted- twice-story is extraordinary. It might be the first crack in the armor-plating surrounding the DB Cooper case. I've encouraged Hank to continue to whittle away through his military contacts - the retired officers directory, etc, and try to find that major. We clearly need more information about why that major said what he said. Along those lines, I have emailed our old friend Billy Waugh, but I received only the most cryptic email in reply that was so filled with military jargon that I couldn't decipher it, but the message I took away from that was - "I ain't talking about Ted, at least not in writing." Hence, I gotta call the ole boy or take a vacation on the Panhandle and check up on my favorite Dixie Belle, Jo Weber, and then visit some of her neighbors.... I also plan to call The Wife and Noreen in Pittsburgh. Lastly, I'm hoping that Tom Smith can shake some branches down in Tampa. He has extensive connections to people and places that we need to delve into. Lastly, lastly, I have gone looking for DB Cooper on several occaisions in the ethers, and also paid Ted a visit in one of my guided remote viewing sessions. For what it's worth, I have been "informed" on two occaisons that DB Cooper was named "Richard," and was in a unit more secretive than MACV SOG, but was based in part at Bragg. That said, I apply the same standards to my research as I do to Mr. Blevins, namely, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. What I take from that is Ted is not Cooper, but may be an avenue that gets us to Cooper. Hence, the journey continues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27510 November 20, 2011 Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. Well...McCoy was a no-ID by the witnesses, then there was that court case in Utah... You know what? Do your own research on this one. Unless you are claiming now that McCoy was the hijacker. There is no middle ground here. Either he was or wasn't. Last time I heard, you thought the hijacker was maybe Gossett, or Bobby Dayton, or you were going to figure it out via hypnosis and astral projection...(*smiles*) How did that work out for you? I can direct you to your posts on this if you like. You'll also have to show evidence that Ralph Himmelsbach now believes McCoy was the hijacker. Last time I heard, he hadn't settled on anybody specific. I mean now, in 2011. I'm a hard guy sometimes. Not just on you, but on anyone who testifies on something regarding the Cooper case. At one time, McCoy was considered a viable suspect. Later, that whole scenario collapsed like a house of cards. To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. I would have to see the actual credit card receipts to believe that part regarding Vegas. Anybody seen them? *Question Everything* Quote You're dodging the question, Robert. I asked you how you know that McCoy's alibi was corroborated. You answered, "a No-ID by the witnesses." Hunh? What witnesses? Witnesses in Las Vegas? Or are you talking about his alibi being corroborated by his wife? Sister-in-law? Is that what the Seattle office accepted - the word of family members over concrete evidence from a Salt Lake City-based FBI invesitgatory team? What court case are you talking about? McCoy's conviction in his skyjacking case? What does that have to do with November 24, 1971 and the gas receipts? And suspects? I don't have any; I agree with you that Ralph doesn't either. In that way, Himms and I are similar. But what does the subject of suspects have to do with the question at hand, namely McCoy's whereabouts on Thanksgiving 1971? For the record, do I think McCoy was Cooper? Absolutely not. That said, however, I do wonder if the truth is much bigger than that. I do wonder if the Cooper caper was a group effort and McCoy was involved in some fashion. Further, you wonder about the factual basis of Calame's claims? Do you really think Calame is mistaken - or deceitful - about the credit cards and the collect phone call? Why? Look Robert, if you don't know why the Seattle office accepted McCoy's alibi, just say so. There is great honor in not knowing, and even greater in acknowledging it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #27511 November 20, 2011 Robert states: Quote Except he couldn't even establish the simple fact that his suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy, was actually having Thanksgiving dinner in Utah at the time of the hijacking. This was established later, as you know. Not good, considering he was an FBI agent. You kind of forgot that part, Bruce. Bruce then states: Quote So, Robert, please fill me in. How was McCoy's presence at home on Thanksgiving Day corroborated? Yes, I know Seattle eventually accepted his alibi, but how do you account for McCoy's credit card receipts and the collect phone call home - all traced to Las Vegas during the Cooper skyjacking - Thanksgiving time period? Are you saying the SLC SAC screwed up? Lied? Has incomplete data? Also, Himmelsbach backs up Calame 100%. Hence, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So, show us please. Who says Russ and Ralph are wrong, and how do they prove it? Thanks. I really would like to know. OKAY! Even Himmelsbachs book has errors, as he was using someone else to write the book. Himmelsbach did NOT catch all of the errors and some slipped by him and into print. Mr. Himmelsbach and I discussed this more than once. I do not remember the discussion laid out in front of me regarding McCoy, but it did prove that McCoy could NOT have been Cooper in 1971. Himmelsbach does NOT back Calame up 100%. It had to do with time lines and distance. I had NO reason to remember the discussion about McCoy. Also NOTE that the wife of McCoy sued the writer and she won...out of court. If the writer used one thing that was erroneous might there not have been other things? (WHY do you think it was settled OUT of Court?) You might be surprised at what you find. Maybe you would like to talk to McCoy's widow. She will probably NOT talk with you, but maybe you can use your "charm" and get where others have not been. Perhaps she signed an agreement with the writer at settlement - you think? I have the contact information, but it might take a few days to find it. It was in some materials I recently went through. Did you have another interview with Himmelsbach? Did YOU record his statement regarding McCoy? Himmelsbach's opinions regarding suspects has changed over the yrs....it has to. In his heart he will always be an FBI agent. FBI agents do NOT guarantee anything 100%. I am NOT a Dixie Belle and never will be...and I do not associate with my neighbors. I only have one neighbor I have anything to do with - the others know little about me other than I am an eccentric about my yard and my privacy. So you are going to pull a JT - that won't get you any brownies. I was not talking about points - perhap some MJ and Antifreeze laced brownies....pick your poison.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #27512 November 20, 2011 To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #27513 November 20, 2011 before finally being killed by FBI agents in Virginia Beach. * where Duane and Jo would move later - Duaner driving Jo by McCoy's house. Ooooooooops. Jo says Duaner felt sohhh sorri that "he" Duane had caused McCoy to be killed; McCoy copying Duane/Cooper! Otherwise McCoy would have gone on to find the cure for polio and diabetes (and the Cooper Curse). Gag me with a silver buffalo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #27514 November 20, 2011 Quote Quote To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Somewhat older. How much exactly is impolite to ask, but if you had read Blast, you would know I was a soph at Sumner High at the time of the hijacking. And it's not how long you've been following the case that is most important. It's what you've learned along the way. So as a Sophomore in HS you began studying the FBI and DB Cooper case, like Mileva Maric studied calculus and helped her husband re-write his notes? Blevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer/clerk! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #27515 November 20, 2011 Attached is an article from the trial involving Karen Burns McCoy (aka ‘A Headless Corpse’) where the reason for pulling the book appears to have nothing to do with McCoy being in the Beehive State for turkey and that cranberry sauce that is served in a cylindrical form with the ribs from the can still visible. Nope. Looks like the lion’s share of the settlement came from a lawyer who Karen McCoy had intended to write a book with and was scorned, deceived and betrayed. Well played Attorney Taylor crossing a woman who was hip deep in a crime for money without regard for her husband or children. Hard to believe that one came home to roost, I mean all the women I’ve violated have simply forgotten the transgressions and gone on to lead happy and revenge free lives. Bit of bad luck in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #27516 November 20, 2011 Quote Attached is an article from the trial involving Karen Burns McCoy (aka ‘A Headless Corpse’) where the reason for pulling the book appears to have nothing to do with McCoy being in the Beehive State for turkey and that cranberry sauce that is served in a cylindrical form with the ribs from the can still visible. Nope. Looks like the lion’s share of the settlement came from a lawyer who Karen McCoy had intended to write a book with and was scorned, deceived and betrayed. Well played Attorney Taylor crossing a woman who was hip deep in a crime for money without regard for her husband or children. Hard to believe that one came home to roost, I mean all the women I’ve violated have simply forgotten the transgressions and gone on to lead happy and revenge free lives. Bit of bad luck in this case. And Blevins studied it all at Wikipedia in .... 1792! Blevins has justestablished himself as an "ole timer" long involved and friend of the FBI since, the first one celled bacterium (named Fred)! George Washington MOVE OVER! RobertMBlevins ..... has arrived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #27517 November 20, 2011 QuoteI never said Karen McCoy was guilt-free. I only said that the book had been pulled and that the witnesses did not ID McCoy as Cooper. Both are true. Unless you are now saying that McCoy WAS Cooper. Proof please. You have me confused with Harry Hopkins. I havent said anything about that topic ... Karen Moskovitz? Karen who? PUT ON YOUR GLASSES PRES. O'BLEVINS. nighty nite, dont let the bed bugs bite. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #27518 November 20, 2011 Georger wroteQuoteBlevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer Speaking of Einstein, some neutrinos have recently been clocked busting his speed limit in Switzerland. Was he wrong Georger? Is nothing sacred? I got considerable comfort thinking that nothing in the entire universe was faster than the 14 MHz EM waves propagating from my Snowmann designed antenna. Now I think I may be driving a old VW in the slow lane. McCoy's turkey alibi was never proven to my satisfaction. Neither was Mayfield's alibi. Doesn't make either of them Cooper though. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #27519 November 20, 2011 I guess I just don’t comprehend so good and my sintax is death. It’s clear that you NEVER said any such thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert99 37 #27520 November 20, 2011 Quote Quote Quote To tell you the truth, when the FBI first went with the McCoy thing, I thought they could be right. He looked like the sketch. He had experience. Then it all went away. *Question Everything* I do! How old were you in 1972? About age 11 give or take? So, you've been following the FBI and McCoy since 1972? Since age 11 ? Tell the truth. Somewhat older. How much exactly is impolite to ask, but if you had read Blast, you would know I was a soph at Sumner High at the time of the hijacking. And it's not how long you've been following the case that is most important. It's what you've learned along the way. So as a Sophomore in HS you began studying the FBI and DB Cooper case, like Mileva Maric studied calculus and helped her husband re-write his notes? Blevins, you should have become a Swiss Patent officer/clerk! Georger, Now that Al's brain is on public display, perhaps someone could download his memory cells and determine if Mileva deserves any credit. But she did get the money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #27521 November 20, 2011 Quote@Bruce Smith: The book D.B. Cooper -The Real McCoy had to be pulled from publication after it was established that Richard Floyd McCoy was actually in Utah at the time of the hijacking. Haven't you even checked Wiki for the basics? Quote Here's the Wiki post on McCoy. I don't see where it refutes his presence in Las Vagas as claimed by Calame and Himmelsbach, or supports his alibi of being in Provo on Thanksgiving as claimed by the Seattle office and touted by you in these posts. Can you explain? ******************************** Lawsuits over Cooper allegations1991 saw the publication of D. B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by FBI agents Bernie Rhodes and Russell P. Calame. Both authors investigated McCoy's skyjacking case, and their book posits that Cooper and McCoy were really the same person. They cited similar methods of hijacking, and a tie and Brigham Young University medallion with McCoy's initials on the back left on the plane by Cooper. After the book's publication, McCoy's widow filed suit against the book's authors, publisher and her former attorney, Thomas S. Taylor. She claimed they misrepresented her involvement in the hijacking for which McCoy was convicted, and also misrepresented later events from interviews done with Taylor in the 1970s. She sought an injunction against publication and distribution of the book.[9] During court proceedings, it was revealed that McCoy's widow was deeply involved in the hijacking. Her request for an injunction to prohibit further sales of the book was denied. However, an injunction to prohibit the sale of movie rights to the book — conditional upon the movie including references to four specific allegations in the book that she protested — was granted.[10] Mrs. McCoy accepted a settlement in 1994. ************************************* Also, what is your source for saying that multiple witnesses established McCoy's presence in Utah on Thanksgiving Day. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #27522 November 20, 2011 Georger, Now that Al's brain is on public display, perhaps someone could download his memory cells and determine if Mileva deserves any credit. But she did get the money. Its a wild goose chase. In spite of Dord Krstic's efforts, there is nothing to show that Mileva supplied any of the crucial ideas or the mathematics to Albert. If anyone was going to do that it would have been someone like Marcel Grossman who actually collaborated with Albert and was even superior to Albert in some areas of statistical analysis. Albert went through a period where he and Grossman worked together continually to develop certain mathematical explications together. During this period Albert was very reliant on Grossman for mathematical ideas ... because Marcel was a pure mathematician vs Albert who was more technically inclined, concerned with theoretical matters in physics. For one thing, Mileva was older than Albert. She had already been atthe Institute, first pursuing a medical career (at her father's wish), before Albert showed up. She fell hard for Albert when he came on the scene but course records show she was never on Albert's level mathematically, and in factshe failed several crucial lab courses and was not passed, whereas Albert skated along easily in the same work. Albert even tried to intercede on Mileva's behalf after she failed and her academic work was over, but it did no good. Some people think she even seduced Albert. They went off and spent a lost weekend traveling out of which she became pregnant, quit her course work, and returned to her family. It proved a large disruption with Albert feeling guilty, Albert went and retrieved her, and they returned to Zurich where they both reenrolled at the Institute. She failed but Albert passed. Hans Albert was born. The rest is history. But the Mileva story is very persistent. My grandmother even heard it in the 30s while doing work at the U of Colorado. (Albert gave over his Nobel Prize money to Mileva with which she bought several rental properties to support herself and the children; the rental properties eventually failed, Mileva took in work and tutored people (in math!), family helped from her father's estate, and Albert helped more financially. Once Hans Albert was old enough he helped financially to his mother, ) I have heard the Mileva story at least 5 times in different versions from people who knew Albert at Princeton, from people who knew and worked closely with Hans Albert, and from people who were close to Erwin Fraundlich who worked with Albert. On the other hand, I have never heard this story outside this group from the many people who knew and worked with Albert and I have never heard that Albert brought this matter up, with anyone. No one has ever been able to present any documentation that Mileva supplied specific ideas or mathematical work which Albert used directly. In contrast to that, there are documents which show Mileva making spelling and syntax corrections (in her handwriting) to someof Albert's "lecture notes", once he was teaching. Historians say that Mileva was nothing more than a sounding board and a secretary to Albert. Mileva never claimed any ownership or serious input into Alberts work. Hans Albert never claimed that. But after Hans Albert's death his wife Elizabeth surfaced trying to secure and preserve Einstein family papers, she met several times with the Serbian Nationalist Dord Krstic in a trip to Europe, and Dord began promoting the idea that Mileva had somehow played a crucial role in Albert's work, in spite of their being nothing to show that. Eventually, Krstic published a book titled: "Mileva & Albert Einstein: Their Love and Scientific Collaboration" - private publication. I know people who worked with Hans Albert's wife closely and have discussed this whole issue with them. I have spoken with Krstic several times. Dord sent me a copy of his book to review, but I declined. I have even spoken with people who knew Erwin Freundlich well but there is nothing has ever surfaced to substantiate Krstic's claims in behalf of Mileva Maric. What does exist is a deep family history for both Albert and Mileva which includes the time of their marraige and particulars of that. Albert was always very loyal and concerned over Mileva's needs, and the same for his children. Albert and his son Hans grew tobe very close. Hans for example was a very well adjusted indivdual with a marvelous long life, both professionally and personally. The records at the Institute show that Mileva was never on Albert or Grossman's same level, even remotely. Her mathematical skills were weak even for the program in medicine at the time. The program in physics was even more demanding, mathematically. She wore out persuing a medical career as her father had requested, she had just switched to a physics course trying to find some niche for herself as an instructor when Albert came on the scene. She was tired from the pressure from her father, from the arduous path she had traveled just to get to the Institute, tired of the academic strains, and she had a congenital condition and was crippled which was physically straining. Mileva's father thought she was un-marraigable so had pushed her to find some profession where she could support herself. Meeting Albert changed all of that. Albert had several very serious arguements with her father on trips they took back to meet Mileva's family. Mileva's father threw Albert out of the house on one of these ocassions! It took time to mend fences with the father. There is no question that Albert cared about Mileva, and they had a number of very rewarding years togther, to their mutual benefit at the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #27523 November 20, 2011 Quote On a more serious note, you can find questions posted to David Winder, interviews with Calame, Carr, and Tosaw, and info on McCoy HERE. The two basic reasons I never believed McCoy was Cooper are actually pretty simple. First, he was 29 years old and the witnesses all said the hijacker was mid to late forties. Second, in order to pull it off, you would have to believe McCoy caught a flight from Utah to Portland, another to Seattle for the hijacking, managed to jump and make his way back to the same airport where the FBI was already looking for him, and then catch another flight back from there to Vegas without being detected. And that he did all this in thirty-six hours...and that none of the stews recognized him from pictures presented to them later. It's a tough stretch. Witnesses in the McCoy hijacking said McCoy was loud and threatening, brandishing a grenade (fake) and a pistol. That demeanor doesn't really match what we know about Cooper's behavior. I think the FBI was right when they finally wrote him off. Since this guy still has his supporters, I will respect that to a degree, but the above is my opinion on the McCoy subject. I really want to know. Do you even read the posts or is shooting from the hip and mis-direction just your m.o.? This whole series of posts got started because BruceSmith gave someone a list of books to reference and, while doing so, also gave his opinion that the author of one of the books was insightful and provocative. You disagreed and based that on assertions that it was established that McCoy was in Utah eating turkey, and for Calame not to find that out obviously means he wasn't a good writer/FBI agent. Oh yeah..and there was a lawsuit and the book was pulled so that proves it too. Bruce asked for validation of your statements - even though he also said that he did not necessarily agree with Calame's conclusion that McCoy = Cooper. You said you didn't say what you said and challenged Bruce to do his own research to verify YOUR statements?? Farflung then shows that you did say what you said (that you said you didn't say) so you try to deflect that by making a joke and posting the astronaut story again (for about the fourth time, I might add). But I digress..... Then you ultimately end up with this - like the whole thing was about McCoy being Cooper? I don't think anyone in the posts was even arguing or agreeing that McCoy was Cooper - just wanted you to show the basis for your Calame challenge about Thanksgiving dinner and show how Calame was wrong about receipts, etc. I, for one, have often wondered about this discrepancy and, as far as I know it has never been explained. So if you have a source, I think Bruce was asking, as I am - hey I'd really like to know. Oh wait....silly silly me.....that same Seattle office that is batting zero on DNA, fingerprints, and eye witness accounts as far as YOUR suspect is concerned... is johnny-on the-flipping spot when it comes to McCoy. I'm sorry....no it's not gang up on Blevins day, and I'm not a Cooper = McCoy proponent either.....but geez louise.....you just leave me flabbergasted sometimes. And i always think to myself - don't even post - it's just too silly. Then I think - no - he's begging for intervention, help him. Then I can't help myself. I have no choice in the matter. Some things just have to be said. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,064 #27524 November 20, 2011 Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites smokin99 0 #27525 November 20, 2011 Quote Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Here's a clicky. http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/11/lost_northwest_books_db_cooper.html The book's been mentioned on here before but forget whether anyone ever actually read it or critiqued it as to being satire or serious . I've kinda sorta without enthusiasm contemplated getting it but never enough to actually push the "place in cart" button. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 Next Page 1101 of 2541 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 47 47
georger 197 #27522 November 20, 2011 Georger, Now that Al's brain is on public display, perhaps someone could download his memory cells and determine if Mileva deserves any credit. But she did get the money. Its a wild goose chase. In spite of Dord Krstic's efforts, there is nothing to show that Mileva supplied any of the crucial ideas or the mathematics to Albert. If anyone was going to do that it would have been someone like Marcel Grossman who actually collaborated with Albert and was even superior to Albert in some areas of statistical analysis. Albert went through a period where he and Grossman worked together continually to develop certain mathematical explications together. During this period Albert was very reliant on Grossman for mathematical ideas ... because Marcel was a pure mathematician vs Albert who was more technically inclined, concerned with theoretical matters in physics. For one thing, Mileva was older than Albert. She had already been atthe Institute, first pursuing a medical career (at her father's wish), before Albert showed up. She fell hard for Albert when he came on the scene but course records show she was never on Albert's level mathematically, and in factshe failed several crucial lab courses and was not passed, whereas Albert skated along easily in the same work. Albert even tried to intercede on Mileva's behalf after she failed and her academic work was over, but it did no good. Some people think she even seduced Albert. They went off and spent a lost weekend traveling out of which she became pregnant, quit her course work, and returned to her family. It proved a large disruption with Albert feeling guilty, Albert went and retrieved her, and they returned to Zurich where they both reenrolled at the Institute. She failed but Albert passed. Hans Albert was born. The rest is history. But the Mileva story is very persistent. My grandmother even heard it in the 30s while doing work at the U of Colorado. (Albert gave over his Nobel Prize money to Mileva with which she bought several rental properties to support herself and the children; the rental properties eventually failed, Mileva took in work and tutored people (in math!), family helped from her father's estate, and Albert helped more financially. Once Hans Albert was old enough he helped financially to his mother, ) I have heard the Mileva story at least 5 times in different versions from people who knew Albert at Princeton, from people who knew and worked closely with Hans Albert, and from people who were close to Erwin Fraundlich who worked with Albert. On the other hand, I have never heard this story outside this group from the many people who knew and worked with Albert and I have never heard that Albert brought this matter up, with anyone. No one has ever been able to present any documentation that Mileva supplied specific ideas or mathematical work which Albert used directly. In contrast to that, there are documents which show Mileva making spelling and syntax corrections (in her handwriting) to someof Albert's "lecture notes", once he was teaching. Historians say that Mileva was nothing more than a sounding board and a secretary to Albert. Mileva never claimed any ownership or serious input into Alberts work. Hans Albert never claimed that. But after Hans Albert's death his wife Elizabeth surfaced trying to secure and preserve Einstein family papers, she met several times with the Serbian Nationalist Dord Krstic in a trip to Europe, and Dord began promoting the idea that Mileva had somehow played a crucial role in Albert's work, in spite of their being nothing to show that. Eventually, Krstic published a book titled: "Mileva & Albert Einstein: Their Love and Scientific Collaboration" - private publication. I know people who worked with Hans Albert's wife closely and have discussed this whole issue with them. I have spoken with Krstic several times. Dord sent me a copy of his book to review, but I declined. I have even spoken with people who knew Erwin Freundlich well but there is nothing has ever surfaced to substantiate Krstic's claims in behalf of Mileva Maric. What does exist is a deep family history for both Albert and Mileva which includes the time of their marraige and particulars of that. Albert was always very loyal and concerned over Mileva's needs, and the same for his children. Albert and his son Hans grew tobe very close. Hans for example was a very well adjusted indivdual with a marvelous long life, both professionally and personally. The records at the Institute show that Mileva was never on Albert or Grossman's same level, even remotely. Her mathematical skills were weak even for the program in medicine at the time. The program in physics was even more demanding, mathematically. She wore out persuing a medical career as her father had requested, she had just switched to a physics course trying to find some niche for herself as an instructor when Albert came on the scene. She was tired from the pressure from her father, from the arduous path she had traveled just to get to the Institute, tired of the academic strains, and she had a congenital condition and was crippled which was physically straining. Mileva's father thought she was un-marraigable so had pushed her to find some profession where she could support herself. Meeting Albert changed all of that. Albert had several very serious arguements with her father on trips they took back to meet Mileva's family. Mileva's father threw Albert out of the house on one of these ocassions! It took time to mend fences with the father. There is no question that Albert cared about Mileva, and they had a number of very rewarding years togther, to their mutual benefit at the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #27523 November 20, 2011 Quote On a more serious note, you can find questions posted to David Winder, interviews with Calame, Carr, and Tosaw, and info on McCoy HERE. The two basic reasons I never believed McCoy was Cooper are actually pretty simple. First, he was 29 years old and the witnesses all said the hijacker was mid to late forties. Second, in order to pull it off, you would have to believe McCoy caught a flight from Utah to Portland, another to Seattle for the hijacking, managed to jump and make his way back to the same airport where the FBI was already looking for him, and then catch another flight back from there to Vegas without being detected. And that he did all this in thirty-six hours...and that none of the stews recognized him from pictures presented to them later. It's a tough stretch. Witnesses in the McCoy hijacking said McCoy was loud and threatening, brandishing a grenade (fake) and a pistol. That demeanor doesn't really match what we know about Cooper's behavior. I think the FBI was right when they finally wrote him off. Since this guy still has his supporters, I will respect that to a degree, but the above is my opinion on the McCoy subject. I really want to know. Do you even read the posts or is shooting from the hip and mis-direction just your m.o.? This whole series of posts got started because BruceSmith gave someone a list of books to reference and, while doing so, also gave his opinion that the author of one of the books was insightful and provocative. You disagreed and based that on assertions that it was established that McCoy was in Utah eating turkey, and for Calame not to find that out obviously means he wasn't a good writer/FBI agent. Oh yeah..and there was a lawsuit and the book was pulled so that proves it too. Bruce asked for validation of your statements - even though he also said that he did not necessarily agree with Calame's conclusion that McCoy = Cooper. You said you didn't say what you said and challenged Bruce to do his own research to verify YOUR statements?? Farflung then shows that you did say what you said (that you said you didn't say) so you try to deflect that by making a joke and posting the astronaut story again (for about the fourth time, I might add). But I digress..... Then you ultimately end up with this - like the whole thing was about McCoy being Cooper? I don't think anyone in the posts was even arguing or agreeing that McCoy was Cooper - just wanted you to show the basis for your Calame challenge about Thanksgiving dinner and show how Calame was wrong about receipts, etc. I, for one, have often wondered about this discrepancy and, as far as I know it has never been explained. So if you have a source, I think Bruce was asking, as I am - hey I'd really like to know. Oh wait....silly silly me.....that same Seattle office that is batting zero on DNA, fingerprints, and eye witness accounts as far as YOUR suspect is concerned... is johnny-on the-flipping spot when it comes to McCoy. I'm sorry....no it's not gang up on Blevins day, and I'm not a Cooper = McCoy proponent either.....but geez louise.....you just leave me flabbergasted sometimes. And i always think to myself - don't even post - it's just too silly. Then I think - no - he's begging for intervention, help him. Then I can't help myself. I have no choice in the matter. Some things just have to be said. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,064 #27524 November 20, 2011 Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smokin99 0 #27525 November 20, 2011 Quote Hi Paul, Another tidbit in today's paper; it tells about a book called: HA, HA, HA by D.B. Cooper I have no other information, JerryBaumchen Here's a clicky. http://www.oregonlive.com/books/index.ssf/2011/11/lost_northwest_books_db_cooper.html The book's been mentioned on here before but forget whether anyone ever actually read it or critiqued it as to being satire or serious . I've kinda sorta without enthusiasm contemplated getting it but never enough to actually push the "place in cart" button. but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
