DB Cooper

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

377: I thought you wanted Snow reinstated.Some times your post can be negative in nature. Your a Attorney. I thought, Your defense in this case was weird. Jerry

Not weird...he's an old school skydiver, say what ya mean~mean what ya say. I think his point is nutz on, Quade would too.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[JerryThomas 0]

Artwaldo: Point being, Quade is a leader and supervisor.His decisions are based on experience in life and not just based on the bravado of our sport. Jerry

[skyjack71 0]

JT is NOT a fact keeper! 377 should go with Bruce or hangdiver.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

Quote

Quote

Do you think Snow will honor and respect Quade in the future?

Nope, not a chance in hell, but he might refrain from insulting Quade. Honor and respect is too high a price for readmission. I don't honor and respect Quade, but I behave decently.

One position that Quade took that I certainly do respect, is his standing up to the horde of skydivers that want the DB Cooper forum gone. He gains no points from most skydivers for letting us continue, believe me.

I don't think Quade requires bows and scrapes, just good behavior on the forum. That should be enough.

377

Lol.....good behavior .....hmm....seems like I remember that Frosty already did a re-entry as nexusofcivility. How long did that last?

lol...Quade's quandry......Let it snow or no. Since Snowmman gets his stuff on here anyway, maybe Quade is just conserving energy. If he doesn't let him back on he doesn't have to go through the keystroke motions of banning him again and again. Best of both worlds you might say. I do admire your perseverance though.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[skyjack71 0]

My Avatar is what it is. One half of a Cooper composite and One half a picture of Weber. It stays!

There has only been one villain in the aftermath of Cooper and it was NOT the FBI. This will be spelled out much later, but now is not the time. CIA involvement or covert involvement - perhaps!

Perhaps the above is true only in the minds of those who see no other answers possible.

The new poster gives his location as Evansville. Evansville, Anywhere USA? Are you VP or RJ?

JT: Only I know exactly what parts of Max's book are true and most of it is fiction. Max walked me thru the book and it is marked. One a very small portion of his book contains truths.

Max had only 6 phone calls in total from Clara and she was usually a little tipsy. "Everyone has a little Lacency in their hearts". Not sure if that is a direct quote - as I am recalling it from memory. Duane had an ex-wife whose favorite expression was this very same one.

Together Max and I walked thru his entire book. He would give me page numbers and ask me if there was anything on that page that would give me cause to connect - Weber to his Cooper. I got them right 99% of the time. I knew the real story from the fictional parts of the story.

It was after this that Max made a visit to CA. When he got back, he wrote his final letter to me.

You guys can read what you want into this, but it really happened. Max and I had a connection and it was not personal - it was Cooper and Clara (not her real name).

I am only letting this part of the story I have told for yrs resurface since JT is so intent on Max's book. Note the syntac of the letters supposedly from Cooper - and then note the syntac of letters written by Weber for other reasons. Oh, that is right only Sluggo and the FBI and my guys are privey to Duane's letters!

Note that Max also wrote for the same magazine Geoffrey wrote for! Have we found Max's old file?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[airtwardo 6]

Quote

Artwaldo: Point being, Quade is a leader and supervisor.His decisions are based on experience in life and not just based on the bravado of our sport. Jerry

To clarify, I mean he's a volunteer moderator on a skydiving website and his efforts are to be appreciated and his commitment respected.

His decisions are based on the rules he's tasked to enforce, his opinions are based on life experiences...in his opinion he was being disrespected and decided to enforce the rules.

What's based on 'the bravado of our sport' is the tone & manner a request such as the return of the snowman is tendered. Unlike the 'real world', a lotta ass-kissin' isn't necessary.

I'd bet if the snowdude were to man up, 'know' he fucked up and amend, commit to the words that mean SO much in this 'bravado' community ... because they not only define one's character especially over time, but strict adherence to 'em can save lives.

~A real commitment to IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN...and a return would maybe be given serious consideration.

Barring that, I wouldn't bet the ranch on odds of seeing Snow in THIS neighborhood.

Everybody screws up, if ya screw up a bunch and ignore correction because of ego, you deal with the consequences be it getting banned from a website or ricocheting off the planet.
If ya own it, promise to fix it and keep it fixed...MY experience in life tends to show that the worm will turn.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[377 21]

Jo wrote

Quote

There has only been one villain in the aftermath of Cooper and it was NOT the FBI. This will be spelled out much later, but now is not the time. CIA involvement or covert involvement - perhaps!

Now is never the time with Jo.

A couple of weeks turns into a couple of months turns into never.

Big promises. Kinda like a Cooper Infomercial.

"but wait, there's more!"

Duly noted by the Tease Police.

But no, no arrests are likely. It's like Duane and the Kool Aid thefts.

Just an old harmless eccentric. Let it go.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

Quote

Hey Orange, all I'm saying is Braden was never on the FBI's list of suspects and the CIA was surely not going to give them his name. IMHO

hangdiver

- got it! Yup, agree. Does lend an interesting twist....that CIA thought/suspected/knew but rivalry and possible egg on their own faces meant they kept quiet...

Wheeeeewwww...............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eta: It sounds so much better when Orange1 says it...!!!...lol

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Orange1 0]

Didja all see this (not sure if I missed a link being posted here) - convenient thread on pioneer parachutes
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4201794;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 21]

From Snowmman:

Quote

In the Ramparts article, Ted Braden says he used the name Joseph Edward Horner, a Canadian citizen who was killed at the Long Than SOG camp when a mortar explored prematurely. Somehow, I think it's right to get the details correct on this.


Ted got Horner's first and middle name wrong. I think it's good to get Horner's real details right. He deserves that, doesn't he?, after his name was misused.


Accuracy comes from Bill Kendall who was MACV-SOG in 1964-65

http://www.modernforces.com/veteran_bill_kendall_1.htm

Bill K. was a rigger, as was Horner.

Bill helped prepare, train and drop indigeneous jumpers during '64-65, at Camp Long Thanh.
Bill's replacement was a SF rigger friend William Horner. Horner's name was the one Braden used in Africa.


William Horner was SSG E-6. Born Jan 29, 1932 in Alberta Canada. He had moved to Fayetteville, NC.
He had been in the Army 12 years.
His Vietnam Tour started May 7, 1965
He was killed in an accident Jul 10, 1965, just two months into his tour.
A 60mm mortar round blew up exiting a tube. It's the same Horner, since the circumstances match Ted's description.

http://www.sfahq.com/reg/reg_sfqual.htm



A friend wrote a tribute to him, including a picture of his gravestone

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17655896

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Farflung 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-A4QFHZBA

That’s more like it snowmman! Canadians in the Vietnam conflict indeed.

He was born in Canada but was every bit American up to losing his life for his country. Left behind a wife with the ‘government’ using his ID for covert operations in the Congo? Gee couldn’t they just print a fake ID since the government makes Social Security cards and Passports? What else is below the surface?

If only those walls at 301 Broadway, San Francisco could talk.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

From Snowmman:

Quote

In the Ramparts article, Ted Braden says he used the name Joseph Edward Horner, a Canadian citizen who was killed at the Long Than SOG camp when a mortar explored prematurely. Somehow, I think it's right to get the details correct on this.


Ted got Horner's first and middle name wrong. I think it's good to get Horner's real details right. He deserves that, doesn't he?, after his name was misused.


Accuracy comes from Bill Kendall who was MACV-SOG in 1964-65

http://www.modernforces.com/veteran_bill_kendall_1.htm

Bill K. was a rigger, as was Horner.

Bill helped prepare, train and drop indigeneous jumpers during '64-65, at Camp Long Thanh.
Bill's replacement was a SF rigger friend William Horner. Horner's name was the one Braden used in Africa.

William Horner was SSG E-6. Born Jan 29, 1932 in Alberta Canada. He had moved to Fayetteville, NC.
He had been in the Army 12 years.
His Vietnam Tour started May 7, 1965
He was killed in an accident Jul 10, 1965, just two months into his tour.
A 60mm mortar round blew up exiting a tube. It's the same Horner, since the circumstances match Ted's description.

http://www.sfahq.com/reg/reg_sfqual.htm



A friend wrote a tribute to him, including a picture of his gravestone

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17655896

377

So are you guys saying that Braden assumed the identity of this Horner? How or why would he do this. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something at this point.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Amazon 7]

Quote

So are you guys saying that Braden assumed the identity of this Horner? How or why would he do this. Perhaps I am misunderstanding something at this point.

Yup.. pretty much.... false identities can be fun.

Amazing what can be done when a government wants to do something.

[JerryThomas 0]

377: I realize snow is busy. can you ask him to do some research on Melvin Wilson. I and Others can not rule him out. What would be great is if we could pin point his last Known location.As it stands now he is the only one that can not be ruled out. Remember he is still on the US Marshalls list as a fugitive.Jerry

[377 21]

Jerry,

Snow does the research he wants to do. I don't know if that includes Melvin Wilson, but I'll pass on the suggestion.

To me Melvin is certainly a person of interest, but I can't say he is the only person who can't be ruled out. His disposal of the counterfeit plates in a river is interesting. It proves nothing about a link to Norjack but it shows he was a guy who thought about rivers as a place to dump incriminating stuff that was no longer useful to him.

If Cooper went in why hasnt a body, rig or canopy been found by now? Intact nylon aircrew canopies from WW2 have been recovered from submerged crashed aircraft over half a century later. Rivers. lakes and oceans hide their secrets, but not forever.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

Quote

If Cooper went in why hasnt a body, rig or canopy been found by now? Intact nylon aircrew canopies from WW2 have been recovered from submerged crashed aircraft over half a century later. Rivers. lakes and oceans hide their secrets, but not forever.

377

If Cooper can't be found in the area where he had to land, then it is time to start looking for him in the areas where he couldn't possibly have landed.

[JerryThomas 0]

377: once again i invite You to come up to this area and do a ground search with me. You will find the answer to your own Question.The terain is deep and rough it is also Cliffs, The main way of travel is down creeks.Jerry

[JerryThomas 0]

Robert99 : The terain in the area is hard to travel. If you tried to travel it by Horse back it would be imposible.I don't think that every one realizes that for the money to have traveled to the location it was found. That Coopers DZ had to of been close to a stream.It only takes a trip to this area to prove this to your self.Susan Gilmore And Richard Seven From the Seattle Times,both made trips to this area with me. There comments was, that the terrain was impassible To have Survived a jump. Still Martin O Collins from Great Brittan Filmed a Documentary with me and also stated the same. Then the Travel Channel did a documentary they tried to follow me through the area and stoped for fear of damaging ther equipment,Geofry Gray , Tom Kaye, and others will verify that the Terain in this area is almost imposible to negotiate, unless you are a expert in the field of Survival. All this being said proves that it is very hard to find or locate a body or any othe debris feor evidence.I have posted in the past about a Skull being found in this area ,That at the time of its discovery was 50 yrs old, this was in the 80's .Jerry

[Robert99 37]

Quote

Robert99 : The terain in the area is hard to travel. If you tried to travel it by Horse back it would be imposible.I don't think that every one realizes that for the money to have traveled to the location it was found. That Coopers DZ had to of been close to a stream.It only takes a trip to this area to prove this to your self.Susan Gilmore And Richard Seven From the Seattle Times,both made trips to this area with me. There comments was, that the terrain was impassible To have Survived a jump. Still Martin O Collins from Great Brittan Filmed a Documentary with me and also stated the same. Then the Travel Channel did a documentary they tried to follow me through the area and stoped for fear of damaging ther equipment,Geofry Gray , Tom Kaye, and others will verify that the Terain in this area is almost imposible to negotiate, unless you are a expert in the field of Survival. All this being said proves that it is very hard to find or locate a body or any othe debris feor evidence.I have posted in the past about a Skull being found in this area ,That at the time of its discovery was 50 yrs old, this was in the 80's .Jerry

Jerry, We have exchanged posts on this quite a while back. Having visited that location, I agree with you that the Washougal area is extremely difficult for travel and seaching. My problem is I don't think Cooper landed there in the first place.

I'll also agree with you that Cooper landed close to some flowing water.

R99

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

If Cooper went in why hasnt a body, rig or canopy been found by now? Intact nylon aircrew canopies from WW2 have been recovered from submerged crashed aircraft over half a century later. Rivers. lakes and oceans hide their secrets, but not forever.

377

If Cooper can't be found in the area where he had to land, then it is time to start looking for him in the areas where he couldn't possibly have landed.

Robert I Loved that answer!

"Time to start looking for him in the areas where he couldn't possibly have landed!"

Perhaps - his other self buried him in a grave that had been dug for someone else in 1971.
Ground sonar equipment might find 2 bodies where there should only be one. Three (3) minus (1) equals two (2). Then one more dies in the next 3 yrs and there is only one....last man standing takes the fall.

Find the common denominator between the 3 men and the crime is solved. Was it Jail? Was it coverts? Was it a lifestyle? Was it all family? Was it a combination of the above?

When more than one person is involved in a mystery the secret usually leaks out, but in this senario NO one could spend the money or they all went down.

Who was the Salt Lake City man Duane set me up to photograph.

Maybe our SOG (the new guys) as I don't really know how to refer to them should view this PHOTO.

OKAY - SOG's who is this guy. This guy knew Duane Lorin (Dusty) Weber . He worked in 1979 at the Visitors Center located on the Mormon Church Grounds in Salt Lake City. NO ONE seems to know who this man was. The Mormon Church will not give him up and I am not able to make a trip to Salt Lake City or put it on a bill board.

THis picture was made the last week of Sept. 1979 or 1st wk of Oct. 1979.

For those who do NOT know why it is so important I identify this man - let me explain this. In 1979 Duane wanted to make The Dalles before dark but he wanted to stop in Salt Lake City first. He was very very familiar with the area and needed no map to find where he was going.
I had been to Salt Lake as a girl and had NO interest in going back. Yet, Duane goes out of his way to find this man.

Then Duane SETS me up to take this photo. Told me the man had just left his office and would be walking past this location and he DID NOT want the man to SEE HIM. Duane left me with the camera and disappeared out of site. Later Duane would ask me about the negatives when I got the pictures developed. I told him I had put them in the fire box as I did with all of the negatives.

NOTE: 2 or 3 yrs ago when this photo started to bug me I went to the negatives - the only negatives missing from 50 yrs of photos was the 3 negatives of the pictures I took of this man. The other 2, I removed from the album after Duane died when I re-did the old albums.

Who is this man and why was it so important Duane have his picture in 1979 when we made our trip to WA (a trip I refer to as The Sentimental Journey). This reference is only because that was a song he used to sing when we went to a piano bar.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[hangdiver 1]

These attached pictures are just an example of eye color changes in the same subject with different lighting...

These photos were all taken within 10 minutes of each other...

What color are they...???

What color would they be in a dimly lit aircraft...???

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

These attached pictures are just an example of eye color changes in the same subject with different lighting...

These photos were all taken within 10 minutes of each other...

What color are they...???

hangdiver

HAZEL! They reflect your surrounding...but they could never be described as Dark Piercing Brown....even in the cabin of a plane and the poor lighting that abounded on those flights in 1971.

TRUE! Hazel seems to take on the colors surrounding them more so than brown or blue.
My eyes are Hazel and they sometime appear to be olive or a medium brown. Sometime the blue / grey ring around them seems a different color from a DARK blue/brown to a light grey.

The star bursts often look darker and making them appear to be brown (never dark brown). Often the star burst - pop with gold.

Right once you know someone with hazel eyes you never forget them! The surroundings, lighting and backgound provide a palette of colors for these multi-colored eyes.

Dark brown eyes can also do this but to a very narrow extent. The lighting in the plane would tend to make anyones eyes look darker....but hazel look dark Piercing brown - hardly!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[hangdiver 1]

Quote

dark Piercing brown

Where did you get the "dark piercing brown"...???

Do you have a link...???

Here is snowmman's post that quotes Mucklow's and Schaffner's descriptions.

I'm pretty sure he got it from the transcripts somewhere...I doubt snowmman made this quote up.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3648502;search_string=med%20to%20dark%20complexion;#3648502

I also read Sluggo's remark about going down rabbit trails...

Quote

Just a thought. Let's not go down an (un-necessary rabbit-trail (or dog trail).

Sluggo quote post #12378

I believe he was talking about looking at Braden...

How's that been working out for finding Cooper...???

hangdiver

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[BruceSmith 3]

Quote

My thanks to Quade for un-banning me. He asked for a few changes on my part, and I said yes.

Quote

Welcome back, Robert. Do the few changes you've promised include showing my mug shot to fewer cops by any chance?

Oh well, one can always hope. But then I always get my stories where ever I find them.

Could you or Quade tell us faithful readers what triggered the amnesty? Insatiable intellectual curiosity, perhaps? A burning passion for the truth?

Embracing the notion of unconditional love that is sweeping the globe? Has the Arab Spring become the Cooper Autumnal? Ahhhh...Halleluejah!

Will we next see the others - like ghosts coming out of the Iowan cornfields, asking, "Is this really the DropZone? Have I really returned?"

Ah, etherial spirits of the DB Cooper Vortex - I beckon you - and you know I can - I call you forward! Come forth Snowmman, Galen, and Georger!

Your souls are forgiven and your past deeds have been scrubbed from the Akashic Records! The Wheels of Karma have been greased and your flat tires pumped full of fresh, pure air! Let your wheels spin and spin, and let us search for Danny Boy together, in bliss.

I always follow my bliss.

To Ariel. You?

Om.

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites

[Orange1 0]

If Blevins is back can we have Georger back please.... That was the deal after all. Georger has made plenty good contributions and I for one would like to see him back.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.