DB Cooper

[skyjack71 0]

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Sigh. Now Jo is "not well schooled". A couple of days ago she was mocking Jerry for his spelling and apparent lack of education (according to her) and telling us how well educated she in fact was. Jo, you can't have your cake and eat it. And irrespective of how well schooled you may or may not be you can't change facts. A hill is not a mountain, and you can't blame Jerry for saying there was no mountain when this is just a fact, anymore than Jerry could tell you for example that lying should be spelt lieing. If you can't even see the inconsistency in your own arguments in something as simple and as clearly demonstrable as this then there truly is no hope for you.

In my communications with Jerry I explained it as a small Mountain or hill. It is called Mt on a map - so there you are missy. There at 2 MTs by that name and even Georger knew what it was if he indeed spent many yrs in WA.

You do pick at words. PIck Pick Pick - listen to the logic and get yourself a 1971 map of the area - it is called a MT.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

even Georger knew what it was if he indeed spent many yrs in WA.

reply]

Ive never lived in the State of WA!

More false info being spread by landlord HOMES4YOUBYJO, in this Weber tenement.

How high will the rent get!

[skyjack71 0]

BUT coming to this thread is too much stress. Now I will go thru another night of terror - I was ordered to go to the ER last Night but chose to see it thru.

I appreciated Amazons explanation of the terrain in the area. After you leave Wahougal going EAST there is (you call it a hill I call it a MT). If you are 70 plus and have never driven in the hills with steep inclines on what I call a narrow road - you are terrified. There where area for pull overs - I was going slow and I let traffic pass when it backed up. At places there where passing lanes for those who chose to go faster and there where pull offs.

To me this was a mountain.

The other place in Washougal was no more than a hill but if was called a MT on the map.

That HILL (I told Jerry about) was very steep and unpaved in 1979 and at points there where trees leaning like they would fall over the road. Duane was UNFAZED and at the top of the HILL was a clearing with a wired fence and a wooden gate. Within the gated and fenced area were LARGE dead trees and huge bolder - you might call them large rocks.

I have describe this as looking like an old homestead, but the large boulders or rock was a problem - if it had been a homestead why did they leave such large Rocks. On my 2010 trip it was TOO WET to risk going up it - it was still a dirt road and Bruce was afraid of a slide.

I had been out there a few days before he and I went but I couldn't find it. The difference is that because he was driving that day I was seeing it has I had seen in on that day in 1979. I was able to focus on what was around me instead of my driving those narrow roads. As we went back to an area - I asked him what was the name of the road we just passed - we turned around and when up that road.

This is when I noted the rocks at what led to a trail up a hill. I saw the metal power "thing". If felt right but we went around to the other side of this area and drove down a road - which dead ended. It was pouring rain, but I got out and went to the door of the home there. I described to the woman what I was looking for and she told me to go back where I was. I took her phone number and sure enough I had to call her to verify the directions.

Bruce and I went RIGHT back to that pile of rocks and I knew I had found it. I even know who owned land at the base of the entry and the old Metal power pole was till there - it was all there and it was not me imaging this place - it did exist. We found one needle in the hay stack I was told did NOT exist...but it did.

My map showed the road and this surprised me as I am sure Bruce will verifiy this. He doesn't like me and with good reason - because I didn't approve of some of the things he has written and how he did them. I don't hide this from him and told him I didn't approve. Outside of that Bruce is a pretty good guy -
he just gets too agressive sometimes, He does have a way with the words - that makes him a good writer - I just disapproved of the methods he uses.

He is actually a very astute person and has all the makings of a topnotch writer...I just don't like to see anyone get in the face of people already damaged by all of this crap.

I had know where Tina was since 2003 or before. Address and phone number, but I did NOT see the need to get in her face and destroy the security she felt and the life she had made for her life. She needs to be commended for staying out of the public eye and for the good she has done - not demeaned.
This was HER choice and WHAT she chose to do.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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even Georger knew what it was if he indeed spent many yrs in WA.

reply]

Ive never lived in the State of WA!

More false info being spread by landlord HOMES4YOUBYJO, in this Weber tenement.

How high will the rent get!

Perhaps it was your having relatives there. Don't worry had Orange not have made something out of the Mt versus hill I wouldn't not have posted.
Goodnight!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Robert99 37]

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Sigh. Now Jo is "not well schooled". A couple of days ago she was mocking Jerry for his spelling and apparent lack of education (according to her) and telling us how well educated she in fact was. Jo, you can't have your cake and eat it. And irrespective of how well schooled you may or may not be you can't change facts. A hill is not a mountain, and you can't blame Jerry for saying there was no mountain when this is just a fact, anymore than Jerry could tell you for example that lying should be spelt lieing. If you can't even see the inconsistency in your own arguments in something as simple and as clearly demonstrable as this then there truly is no hope for you.

In my communications with Jerry I explained it as a small Mountain or hill. It is called Mt on a map - so there you are missy. There at 2 MTs by that name and even Georger knew what it was if he indeed spent many yrs in WA.

You do pick at words. PIck Pick Pick - listen to the logic and get yourself a 1971 map of the area - it is called a MT.

Jo, I HAVE lived in WA (east of the Cascades) and if my memory is correct, we always called "mountains" by that name and "hills" by that name. I would expect that a smart Florida real estate lady, such as you describe yourself, could tell the difference also.

[Amazon 7]

Au contraire mon frere

I have driven that road many many times...and unlike I-84/US30 on the Oregon side it does not stay down close to the river in many many places.

No idea about her life history.. just trying to be factual for someone who lives at freaking sea level and knows what relatives from Florida do when I scare them to shit when I take them for rides up in "the hills" on twisty steep curvy cliffside roads in WA. I have one visiting me right now.... I skeered her just taking her over to the coast to kill sammings

Oh and taking her across the Columbia River Bar a few days in a row.. also got some GREAT wide eyed looks of terror too..

[Robert99 37]

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Au contraire mon frere

I have driven that road many many times...and unlike I-84/US30 on the Oregon side it does not stay down close to the river in many many places.

No idea about her life history.. just trying to be factual for someone who lives at freaking sea level and knows what relatives from Florida do when I scare them to shit when I take them for rides up in "the hills" on twisty steep curvy cliffside roads in WA. I have one visiting me right now.... I skeered her just taking her over to the coast to kill sammings

Amazon, Please note that Jo was talking about the highway between the Bridge of the Gods and Vancouver.

I have never driven between the Bridge of the Gods and the area of the intersection of I-82 and I-84 west of Pendleton.

So if the higher elevations that you mention are in that stretch of WA Hwy 14, I will concede the point.

If not, I'll still concede the point but now I have to figure out why I didn't notice the higher elevations on Hwy 14.

[georger 197]

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Au contraire mon frere

I have driven that road many many times...and unlike I-84/US30 on the Oregon side it does not stay down close to the river in many many places.

No idea about her life history.. just trying to be factual for someone who lives at freaking sea level and knows what relatives from Florida do when I scare them to shit when I take them for rides up in "the hills" on twisty steep curvy cliffside roads in WA. I have one visiting me right now.... I skeered her just taking her over to the coast to kill sammings

Amazon, Please note that Jo was talking about the highway between the Bridge of the Gods and Vancouver.

I have never driven between the Bridge of the Gods and the area of the intersection of I-82 and I-84 west of Pendleton.

So if the higher elevations that you mention are in that stretch of WA Hwy 14, I will concede the point.

If not, I'll still concede the point but now I have to figure out why I didn't notice the higher elevations on Hwy 14.

I think the pont is: Jo does know what mountains
vs hills vs Florida saw grass is (are). Remember:
Jo is a saavy Kentucky girl. They knew what relativity
was before Einstein did! The rest is:
FOR SALE-smanship.

Jo can create "jobs" faster than moonshine boils.

[Robert99 37]

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Yeah...I never bought into those crazy 'we never landed on the moon' conspiracies. I remember seeing a daytime talk show where Buzz Aldrin got to face a guy who was a big supporter of the 'we never went' theories. He had even done a book on it. When this guy called Aldrin a liar and a coward, Aldrin took a big swing at him and popped the big mouth in his big mouth. Not bad a for a guy 72 years old. No charges were ever filed.

Pictures from Apollo 11 You Probably Haven't Seen (Newsvine)

On a side note that has nothing to do with Cooper, did you realize that while people debate on whether we should go to Mars...that NASA has already set the date AND the plan to do it? The ISS is absolutely key to their plan. When? April, 2025 and here's how they want to do it...

As you are probably aware, Neil Armstrong had to eject from a lunar lander trainer vehicle at the NASA Houston facility when it ran out of fuel for its reaction control system. He was all over the place for a couple of seconds and was very low and almost horizontal when he did eject. There is video of that incident that gets shown periodically.

Running out of fuel for the descent engine is no better if the lander is several feet above the lunar surface. Armstrong was fully aware of the situation and the possible outcomes.

[Orange1 0]

Point of order:
I called Jo out because she was accusing Jerry of saying something wasn't there, which probably wasn't. Her entire argument crumbled when after vigorously telling us why she would have called it a mountain, she now suddenly claims she told Jerry "or hill". Cn anyone believe this sudden change!

Who was it who said " you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts"?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[smokin99 0]

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Point of order:
I called Jo out because she was accusing Jerry of saying something wasn't there, which probably wasn't. Her entire argument crumbled when after vigorously telling us why she would have called it a mountain, she now suddenly claims she told Jerry "or hill". Cn anyone believe this sudden change!

Who was it who said " you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts"?

It's been said that your quote has been widely attributed to Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, but I think it's been "purloined" by others.

I love Mark Twain and his quotes, A quick google lookup revealed these..... that could easily fit several of our DB Cooper cast of characters....

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"

"Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live."

"Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable."

"Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't."

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."

"I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way."

Just biding time til Georger gets back to us with his take on the money trail. Hope the dine and roses worked!

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

“Once a newspaper touches a story, the facts are lost forever, even to the protagonists.”

Norman Mailer


“You may have read that I went to M.I.T. In 1982 I filled out a Who's Who survey with joking responses, and they never bothered to check the facts.”

Chevy Chase


“Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, face the facts.”

Ruth Gordon


“The very fact that the government claims issuing 60 million Social Security checks every month in a nation with 310 million total population should be enough information, but it isn’t.”

Farflung

[Farflung 0]

When the Social Security Act of 1935 was passed the life expectancy for an American was 61.7 years with a benefit collection age beginning at 62. I realize these are statistics.

In WWII the Army Air Forces were experiencing attrition rates (getting shot down) of 4% per mission. In order to offer an incentive to combat crews, the military allowed those with 25 combat missions to rotate back home. Statistically after they had a 100% chance of getting shot down. This is like giving a tire a warranty until the first flat. It sounds good as long as you don’t think about it too much.

So the very first person to receive a Social Security check was one Ida May Fuller at the tender age of 65 which was 2.1 years past the average life expectancy for a person in 1940. Wow, that really creams the government’s wealth of vital statistics. She really stuck it to ‘The Man’ by outliving this generous program which starts payments years after your anticipated demise.

But Ida wasn’t content to sit and worry about when the government said she should expire and soldiered on to die at the premature age of 100. Really, who could make this up? The first person to receive such an entitlement lived to that ripe and fermented age without an adjustment to the qualification age when monies are distributed is the purest of raw material that makes irony appear ironic.

I sent the Social Security Administration an email suggesting their HQ be named the ‘Ida May Fuller Building’ in honor of this first fiscal feat by an average citizen. As of today and the last six years, my correspondence has remained inexplicably unanswered.

[Orange1 0]

And, Farflung, remember retirement ages then were around life expectatancy (retirement ages haven't changed really since). So, you worked practically until you died, maybe a year or two of social security in it. Now, you work, then use public health funds to keep you living for as long as you possibly can to draw pensions!

And yet US demographics are way better than many other countries, mainly thanks to immigration-friendly policies. So you still have younger people working to pay the social security. (iirc this is properly termed intergenerational transfer). Countries like Japan on the other hand are about to go .... Poof.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Guru312 0]

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"Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't."

Discussion of facts within this forum has been quite shallow lately.

Since no one else has referenced it...maybe I missed a reference buried within all the noise...I'm posting a link which is actually pertinent to the DB Cooper topic: Hijackings. Note the very thin considerations over-all for hijackings.

See this for starters: http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/2011/2-protocols-for-responding-to-hijackings/

See the entire report from Rutgers Law Review here:
http://www.rutgerslawreview.com/2011/a-new-type-of-war/

Fascinating reading....

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[377 21]

Interesting reading indeed Guru. The fog of war certainly obscured things during the 911 intercept operation, lots of wrong info etc.

Pretty amazing that shoot down orders can be given by the President targeting a donestic airliner full of innocent passengers. Of course they eventually saw that the hijacked airliners were being used as missiles so it was likely that the passengers would be killed anyway, so why not limit the deaths to passengers and spare the lives of people in targeted buildings by doing shootdowns of ones still in the air?

What if a shoot down order had been given for the NORJACK 727? Some trigger happy NORAD commander possibly could have convinced the White House that the hijacker ws likely to blow up the plane after exiting and do it over a populated area. In that scenario the crew was toast anyway.

It would have been very embarrasing to the USAF. The F 106 interceptors scrambled from McChord AFB couldn't even find the 727. The big old C 130 transport that did intercept it was incapable of firing weapons.

If DBC was a true sociopath blowing up the plane after his exit would have made sense. It would have destroyed eyewitnesses and any physical evidence left on the plane. Glad he didn't do it.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Robert99 37]

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377 says in part:

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"If DBC was a true sociopath blowing up the plane after his exit would have made sense. It would have destroyed eyewitnesses and any physical evidence left on the plane. Glad he didn't do it..."

As an added bonus, it would have made it easier for the hunt for the skyjacker to begin. There would have been a crash site and hundreds of folks would have been on the scene very quickly. Everyone would know for certain that the hijacker must have jumped from the plane north of any crash site.

As it happened, Cooper gave himself a narrow escape window by sparing the plane and crew. There would also be the matter of the bomb evidence, which could have eventually led the FBI to the hijacker.

This window was the initial confusion and uncertainty on when/where he *probably* jumped. By the time that was determined and ground searchers got organized, Cooper was either a hole in the ground, at the bottom of a river or lake, or long gone.

Okay, Blevins, you apparently feel you know exactly where Cooper jumped. Where was it?

[skyjack71 0]

Trying to post a envelope dated 1982.

His sister kept this envelope Duane along with a letter to his sister. The letter is long lost to me and the bother provided the envelope hopefully to obtain DNA, but we used one of those sponge sealer in those days so I didn't know if the FBI was able to get any DNA or not.

I never scanned an envelope before and not sure the size will post on the thread. I have NO idea why I did this tonight. Just going through old files.

He sent her a letter and some pictures - I understand this was one of the rare communications she had from him in several yrs.

He would call her by phone at Christmas and she never had an address from him until we moved to VA....note even then it was a P.O. Box. The last time she saw him was in 1971....she refuse to tell me anymore than that. At the time of the skyjacking she lived only 12 miles from where one of the letters to the News Paper was sent. All of this has been said before and my memory lately won't let me recall the location.

I have made a post somewhere along the line giving her location at that time and the post sent to a media source. Now I am getting to old and to many health problems to try to remember the details. No one cares anyway - She asked me to leave the past in the past and NOW I am the last one standing. She didn't want her friends to know and begged me to leave the Past in the Past.

Since I am the last one standing I expect this is how it will be. In this America the only ones who are heard are the voices of deceit...no one wants to face the truth head on. Orange Please do NOT make one of your famous retorts - I don't need it.
I will be posting little things as I go thru them.

That "hill" was called Green Mt, but remember that in 1971 there were 2 Green Mts. If the map calls it a MT then it is a Mountain to me.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

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Trying to post a envelope dated 1982.

His sister kept this envelope Duane along with a letter to his sister. The letter is long lost to me and the bother provided the envelope hopefully to obtain DNA, but we used one of those sponge sealer in those days so I didn't know if the FBI was able to get any DNA or not.
.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously colored red
of those sponge sealer I didn;t know was available
obtain me his sister so i didnt know those days.

[skyjack71 0]

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Trying to post a envelope dated 1982.

His sister kept this envelope Duane along with a letter to his sister. The letter is long lost to me and the bother provided the envelope hopefully to obtain DNA, but we used one of those sponge sealer in those days so I didn't know if the FBI was able to get any DNA or not.
.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously colored red
of those sponge sealer I didn;t know was available
obtain me his sister so i didnt know those days.

Yes, Georger, those sponge things where a reddish orange and before you go TOO far I have a little more information.

1. Did the DNA the FBI extracted from the envelopes I provided them produce the PKD gene?

2. In the FALL of 1998 after the FBI sent me a letter - Duane's stepdaught returned to her mother's home in California. She was in xxgxxe, OR for a period of time.

Think about this one long and hard...and do NOT make light of it. The FBI interviewed her and her mother shortly before she departed for OR.

In a subsequent conversation with the step-daughter - before she died she told me "I know Duane was Cooper". Why did she tell me that ? It was the only private conversation we ever had. She told me she had wanted that one on one - for a long time - her mother was not home - a one time happening.

She told me what happened before the FBI came to their home and what her mother did. I believe she was telling me the truth because of "what" she told me.

I would later question the FBI about this - and sure enough - they told me something that was dead on with what she had stated to me.

The FBI had not revealed this to me before - not until I told them about the incident the young woman had recited. What the FBI was aware of and what the daughter had told me were dead on in relations to a specific incident.

Now go put your head in a bucket of water and count to 100.

There has been no continuality of information regarding the questioning of individuals. When I called them - they should have checked this out, but they had already supposedly disqualified Weber with nothing more than finger prints...per their letter of mid 1998.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 197]

Now go put your head in a bucket of water and count to 100.

.

I refuse!

[Orange1 0]

Re shoot down orders.... Sometimes a president has to make a decision to sacrifice a few to save Many. The classic example is Churchill allowing the bombing of Coventry because they couldn't let the Germans know they had broken the Enigma code?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[smokin99 0]

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Jo teased***What I am getting ready to do WILL not be in this thread. I had actually hope it would NOT come to my having to take the direction I feel I must at this date.

Would you mind telling us what this next promised blockbuster event is Jo?

If it won't be done here, where should we look and when?

Do you stay on touch with the "Night Clerk"?

Hope his health and yours take a turn for the better.

377

Jo, Did you ever respond to 377?

And btw.....something I'm really curious about...... If you were to get verifiable info tomorrow that proved that Duane was Cooper, and the FBI said yeah, he was the guy - aside from gloating for a while - what would your next step be? But before you respond to this I'd like to know your answers to 377's questions. Don't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[Farflung 0]

One of the many things that resonated with me after the 9/11 hijackings was the incongruous use of the title - Air Traffic Controller. There was clearly nothing being controlled and this weakness was utterly exploited and that presumably after the likes of the Rand Corporation had already modeled such a situation.

We appear to pay an odd homage to titles and use them to transfer common sense or project some other insecurity. Webmasters, Chief Executives and Senior Whatevers all advertise their innate wisdom and rank but somehow manage to testify in court that they really didn’t know what was going on in the company much like Ken Lay of Enron or Dennis Kozlowski of Tyco. Yet it continues for reasons I can’t understand and others won’t explain.

Kozlowski was sentenced to 8 to 25 years in prison for fraud but most would agree that a greater crime was committed (3:02 – 3:52) when middle aged white people dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KTaloE-3FM&feature=related

If you think that Kozlowski’s voice sounds familiar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkd5dJIVjgM

Oh well, I guess history will repeat in that the crimes get bigger because we build bigger walls which require a more complex and destructive solution to breach. Airport security has changed drastically in a display of responsiveness while the title Air Traffic Controller is still the same a decade later.

[377 21]

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Re shoot down orders.... Sometimes a president has to make a decision to sacrifice a few to save Many. The classic example is Churchill allowing the bombing of Coventry because they couldn't let the Germans know they had broken the Enigma code?

I had a similar but far less dramatic dilemma when skippering a commercial fishing boat. Other fleets had installed voice scramblers so that they could pass radio info on hot fishing spots without being mobbed by outsiders. They paid a lot for their scramblers and were told they were "digital" and "unbreakable". It was a lie. They were not digital and were actually fairly simple.

I recognized the scrambled voices as simple speech inversion and built a tunable decoder using an EXAR analog multiplier chip. I had to be really careful not to come their way too often after a intercepting a descrambled radio report of hot fishing. It was hard to keep up that discipline.

One day all hell broke loose and the descrambled voices told of huge catches taking place right in the shallow anchorage I had left an hour earlier. I gritted my teeth and stayed in deep water 7 miles away.

Over the long run it paid off, as they never suspected I could decode their radio comms and about 15% of the time I'd profit off the info.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.