Sluggo_Monster 0 #21401 February 3, 2011 BobKnoss said: Quote Does your mother know you are an FBI assassin? Not ME man… You have me confused with someone else. I’m just a “member-of-the-band”. First trombone (I think). Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21402 February 3, 2011 You'da liked Gramma. She was funny, too. Her favorite game was chopping the head off a lazy rooster and tossing him up in the air. He'd run around and I'd have to chase him 'til I caught him. Made for tough chicken. She played in the band, too. I can still hear her playing the piano. "Chops Dicks." Ding-ding-ding-ding....... Yah, you'da loved Gramma. She was bald, too. What's your last name again, Hotchkiss? You could be a long lost relative. Great-Grampa was in Pickett's charge, wrong side though. Gram was a Cooper fan from day one. You'd fit right in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21403 February 3, 2011 QuoteQuote No verification needed. The FBI has it on file and Doug Pasternak interviewed her. I can verify Duane Weber was Dan Cooper and that he was the person trained for Project Norjak. He was on his knees clipping grass with a pair of green hand clippers on the NE corner of 9140 Lyndale Ave. So. when we asked him to identify himself. QUOTE: "I'm going by the name Dan Cooper, but my real name is Duane, no 'W', no 'Y,' just plain 'Duane.'" UNQUOTE, etc., etc. I have made a formal identification to that effect before a judge, which is on record. I can verify that what Jo claims Duane told her is consistent with what I recorded from 1968-2011. I have also identified her Duane Weber as the Duane Weber I knew. That avenue is well covered. There are several others who can verify if you need them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #21404 February 3, 2011 QuoteRobert. Tina is fine and is doing well. So why can't you leave it alone. You will not be able to contact her. Let it go Jerry It took a lot of effort to get her where she is at now. She is apparently functional. You mess with that balance and you could put her back where she was. I agree, leave it be and move on to something else. NO MORE DAMAGE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #21405 February 3, 2011 It’s about time such a program was offered to an expectant audience that has long considered this ‘latest’ suspect as viable. Sure there is the natural bias to go running after what on the surface may appear as the legit winner of the race, but we so often fail to see the forest through the trees. Now it will finally be told and we can all decide for ourselves what is fact or fantasy. Is it just a coincidence that they chose the ‘marathon’ format to broadcast the latest suspect? A marathon represents the long haul and legitimacy. Marathon was unique in that it was the ONLY candy bar that came with a calibrated, ruler printed on the package so you would know exactly just how long it was. Either way, I’m keeping an open mind and collecting everything available about this case. I just hope I don’t miss anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #21406 February 3, 2011 So who is watching and anally probing more people these days??? “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they want to probe you” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #21407 February 3, 2011 QuoteSo who is watching and anally probing more people these days??? “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they want to probe you” It is to become a Government Health Plan daily ritual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0XTBctrOM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #21408 February 3, 2011 Take a look at this commercial and the poorly veiled manipulation in the message. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tUdsvfa10 That’s right, you saw it, a Great Western Bank commercial with John Wayne. Did you notice the fire with a pan acting as a ‘bringing home the bacon’ with the knapsack in the background serving as a ‘packing it in’ metaphor? Did they think the audience would be so dazzled by the American icon of cool, self reliant, you can have the ‘surface of the sun scorching hot’ girl because I shot Liberty Valance and not see that bit of propaganda? It only gets worse. Try and endure this equally tainted piece of shameless overtone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XDaQUd6Qv4 Did we really need the introduction of a man riding too quickly into town with the announcement of ‘He’s coming’? Marathon John lasts a ‘good long time’ versus Quick Carl, who suffers from an affliction some of us may choose to call efficiency. Well the same marketing group must have been in charge of that poorly coded message also. I was able to instantly spot the double entendre represented by Marathon John. We all recognize ‘John’ (hellooooooo) as Patrick Wayne, aka son of the Duke. So Marathon John is serving as a double entendre to Great Western Bank. Nice try Madison Avenue. Good thing all the Cooper researchers can spot this brand of shenanigans, tomfoolery and douchebaggery before it grows out of control (brought to you by: post 21870). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #21409 February 3, 2011 The Hunt for DB Cooper Report: Interview with Ralph Himmelsback On January 30, 2011, I interviewed Ralph Himmelsbach, the retired DB Cooper case agent from the FBI’s Portland, Oregon office. Ralph is very easy to find, suggesting that he wants to be found, which may be the case as he has a book to peddle on the skyjacking, titled : NORJAK: the Investigation of DB Cooper. Nevertheless, my interview with Ralph would not have happened without the encouragement from a Cooper investigator named Jerry Thomas. Since Ralph’s contact information is readily obtained via Google, he was the first person in the Cooper case that I contacted, in 2008. That was after learning of the exploits of Cooper-confessee Barb Dayton from her biographers, Ron and Pat Forman, along with hearing indications of a FBI cover-up. As a result, I was itchin’ to put the Bureau’s feet to the fire and I think Ralph sensed that immediately. Whatever his reason, though, he declined my request for an interview. However, his rejection was delivered graciously, which left a pleasant taste in my mouth concerning Ralph personally. Some time later, with my knowledge of the case growing along with a desire to write a more comprehensive treatise, I asked Ralph again for an interview. But he turned me down a second time. During this period, however, I was in frequent conversation with Jerry, who told me that he considered Ralph a second father. Further, Jerry indicated to me that he had Ralph’s utmost confidence regarding the Cooper skyjacking and that he, Jerry, could speak for Ralph on details of the case. In this light, I asked Jerry on how I could get an interview with Ralph, and I suggested that since I had been turned down twice maybe I should just drop-in on Ralph someday. “I’m sure that would be fine with Ralph,” Jerry told me. “He’s a great guy.” Steeled with that reassurance, I stopped at Ralph’s home in Woodburn, Oregon on my way to Eugene to visit the Carmelite Monastery as part of my corresponding quest to discover the whereabouts of Cooper hostage, flight attendant Tina Mucklow. I was also curious to learn more about Woodburn since Barb told the Formans she landed in hazelnut groves there after parachuting from Flight 305. Woodburn, about 25 miles south of Portland, is on the northern end of the Willamette Valley, (pronounced Wil-LAM-et), a profoundly flat region that stretches south for 100 miles to Eugene. Like bookends, my Cooper journey framed the premier agricultural lands of the Pacific Northwest, and say what you will about Barb’s confession the girl sure knew how to pick an LZ, which, for the uninitiated, is skydiver lingo for “landing zone.” As for Ralph, he lives on 40 acres just east of the Pudding River, and his flooded, muddied land looked just like the river’s name-sake. His expansive house, a mini-mansion really, sits on a hillock in the middle of his farm lands, which I later learned are leased to a local tulip grower. Driving down Ralph’s narrow half-mile driveway through these fields made me feel like I was negotiating a causeway and crossing a moat. This medieval feel is further enhanced when one arrives at Ralph’s compound. The house is elegantly designed with multiple stories and has several surrounding out-buildings. Coupled with the exquisite stone and chrome interiors it looks like the home of a modern-day, Moorish squire. I was just getting out of my pick-up when Ralph marched out of his house to find who had just entered his kingdom. He had a grim look on his face, so I evoked the magic of Jerry Thomas immediately. “Ralph,” I called out. “My name is Bruce Smith and Jerry Thomas said it would be okay if I just dropped-in on you to talk about the DB Cooper case. I hope that’s okay.” Ralph was now upon me. After hearing Jerry’s name he brightened considerably. “You’re a friend of Jerry’s?” he asked. I shrugged, slightly. “Well, sure, c’mon in. We can talk for a few minutes but I’m in the middle of putting the laundry into the washer, so let me finish that first.” Ralph is clearly in his 80s, but looks fit and trim. His grip is strong and he walks easily without any noticeable hitch. He stands about 5’10,” weighs about 185, and his voice is clear and strong. I explained my relationship with Jerry as we walked towards the front door. “I’ve talked with Jerry a bunch on the phone and we’ve emailed each other a lot, but we’ve never actually met.” We got to the front door and Ralph opened it. Handing him my business card I said, “I’m a newspaper reporter and we’ve talked before Ralph. I called you a couple years ago.” “Ah, yes, I remember. We exchanged a couple of emails, too,” he said. “No, never any emails, but I’ve sent you a snail mail packet on what I’ve been working on.” Ralph waved his hands indicting, no matter… We walked into his gorgeous home. “You house is beautiful, Ralph,” I declared. “Thanks. We like it,” he replied. Heading towards the open-spaced kitchen Ralph introduced me to his wife Joyce, who was chopping celery for a family dinner. “This is a friend of Jerry’s,” Ralph called out. “You’re a friend of Jerry’s?” Joyce said joyfully, “It’s wonderful meeting you.” “A pleasure meeting you as well,” I intoned. Joyce and I bantered in the kitchen as Ralph headed to the washing machine. “You sound like you’re from Back East,” she quipped. “Yup, New York,” I said. Just got back this week after spending three months there taking care of my mother. I think my accent really deepened from being back there.” Joyce smiled and talked about her own upbringing in Massachusetts. “Yeah, my family’s got that whole ‘paahk-tha-caah-in-Haavaahd-Yaahd thing,” she said, laughing. After a few moments she begged-off from any more socializing since “the kids” were expected shortly for a Sunday dinner. I saw four place-settings at a small, round table adjacent to the kitchen area. Ralph returned and ushered me into the nearby living room area, motioning me to sit in a large, blue leather recliner. He stretched out in the adjoining couch, also made with the same luscious turquoised-toned leather. “So what are your questions?” he posed. “How well do you know Jerry Thomas?” I answered. “Very well, “Ralph replied. “He was my primary source for investigating the topographical area of where Cooper jumped. Jerry grew up there, and he knows the area very well. Plus, he was an Army Special Forces instructor. He’s got a great background and I knew I could rely absolutely on the accuracy of his reports.” After a pause he continued, “I knew we were getting good information from him on the area.” Ralph paused again, and then added, “I’ve searched the area many times myself, from the air and on the ground.” I was surprised Ralph never said the name of the area directly, so I asked. “Are we talking the Washougal watershed area?” “Yes,” Ralph stated. “How long have you known Jerry?” I continued. “Oh, we, ah, go way back,” Ralph replied. “Did you know him at the beginning of the Cooper investigation, then?” “Oh, no. I guess I’ve known Jerry for about ten years.” “How did he come to join your investigation?” “He volunteered. He initially contacted me and offered to ‘help in any way,’ particularly with any ground searches in the area. “Ralph, it is my understanding that Jerry has posted on the DropZone web site that he knew Cooper suspects Richard McCoy and Sheridan Peterson in Viet Nam. Is that true?” “We’ve never discussed that.” “Speaking of suspects, I understand that 922 individuals have confessed to being DB Cooper. Is that true?” “I don’t remember if that is the exact number, but it was a lot.” “Hundreds?” “Yes, hundreds.” Ralph then shared his perspective on why so many people have confessed to the skyjacking saying that each had an individual motive, but most were ex-cons in state prisons, which are generally pretty crummy places, and they were looking for a better home in a federal penitentiary. “These ex-cons were looking for an upgrade? “Yeah, you could say that. An upgrade.” Ralph chuckled. Warming to the subject of suspects, Ralph launched into a soliloquy on Cooper. Since Ralph is the guy who has called Cooper a “rotten, sleazy criminal” despite the fact that the crew members describe DB as a gentleman, I was not surprised that Ralph’s tone was dismissive. “You have to remember that Cooper was a copycat,” he began. Ralph re-iterated numerous details of the early extortive skyjackings, with the first being conducted by a fellow named Gaylord aboard an Air Canada flight out of Great Falls, Montana two weeks before Cooper’s caper. Without missing a beat, Ralph gave me a summary of the third skyjacking attempt, one carried out by a young man named McNally over Peru, Indiana. In all these recountings I was impressed by Ralph’s memory and cognitive abilities. He may be eighty-something, but he’s still pretty sharp, I thought. Ralph seemed to especially relish talking about skyjacker number four, Richard McCoy. “With each new skyjacking, the skyjackers improved their techniques,” said Ralph, echoing fellow FBI agent Russ Calame’s evaluation of McCoy’s effort. (Calame was the Special Agent in Charge of the Salt Lake City FBI office and the G-man who collared McCoy for his skyjacking in April, 1972. Calame is also co-author of the book: DB Cooper – The Real McCoy.”) As Ralph continued on the subject of McCoy’s skyjacking over Provo, Utah, I was surprised to hear him confirm Calame’s conclusion that McCoy was not at his home in Salt Lake City during the Cooper skyjacking. What I found most interesting is that Ralph was willing to hold an opinion in direct opposition to the current view held by the FBI that McCoy was at home for the Thanksgiving holiday. “We did look at McCoy in the Cooper case, but he was in Las Vegas when the Cooper skyjacking took place,” Ralph declared. I then took a sharp turn in the conversation. “I’d like to ask you about the flight path when Cooper jumped. Is your current understanding that it was east of Victor-23 and over the Washougal watershed. “Yes.” “How did you arrive at that understanding?” “The pilot told me.” As with McCoy’s whereabouts on November 24-25, 1971, Ralph’s perspective on the location of Flight 305 when DB Cooper jumped is in direct conflict with the current view of the FBI, which says the hijacked plane was flying directly along Victor 23, the navigational corridor designated for commercial airliners that roughly parallels Interstate 5 through Washington and Oregon. As such, the FBI says that Flight 305 flew west of Portland and not east, which would have taken it over the Washougal River basin. Ralph continued with an animated discussion about the pilot of Flight 305, Bill Rataczak, and I learned many things. First, Ralph said that Rataczak told him about the easterly flight path nine years after the skyjacking, in 1980 at Ralph’s retirement party from the FBI, which begs the question why the Cooper case agent in Portland never talked directly with the pilot during the earlier portions of the investigation. “It was the first time I had met Bill,” Ralph added, “and we talked for hours. He flew in just to be at my retirement party.” Ralph said his meeting with Rataczak led to a friendship that has grown over the years, with the two men exchanging regular emails and sharing frequent phone calls. When I asked Ralph when he had last spoken with Rataczak, he said, “Oh, about ten days ago.” Further, Ralph told me that Rataczak is very ill with cancer, and his wife also, but worse. “They’re hospital cases, really, at this point,” Ralph said. Throughout our 20-minute conversation Ralph was exceptionally friendly and gracious. Nevertheless, shortly after his daughter arrived for the family meal Ralph firmly announced, “This will have to do. Our family’s getting ready.” We stood and walked to the door. When I asked if he would be open to the possibility of continuing our conversation he seemed circumspect, so I tried another approach. “Maybe if I called you first, like in a couple of days on my way back from Eugene? Tuesday, maybe?” “No, not Tuesday. I’ll be busy all day. I’m undergoing a procedure at my doctor’s.” Ralph described how he was scheduled to receive a spinal injection to relive chronic back pain. I sensed that he wanted the rest of the week free of pesky reporters, so I ceased trying to schedule a follow-up interview. “Well, I hope the procedure goes well for you,” I offered instead. At the door, Ralph asked me what publication I was writing for and what angle I was taking on the case. “I’m lucky, Ralph, I don’t have to prove who DB Cooper is. I just have to write a good story. To that end, I’m taking a comprehensive approach – who the suspects are, how the investigations have gone, and I’ll explore all the mysteries.” Ralph laughed and we agreed that the case is emergent, but for different reasons. Ralph said that he thought the case was in the public eye because of all the recent media attention, such as the current History Channel documentary on Kenny Christiansen and the National Geographic special of a year ago. “Half the country is too young to know the case and now the media has to exploit a new market,” he said. My view that the case is gaining public interest because of the advent of DNA testing and the ability of the public and reporters to delve deeply into the case via the Internet was lost in a babble of goodbyes. When we reached my pick-up we shook hands and Ralph announced, “I let you off easy today. I usually charge for what I’ve just given you.” The question of payment for an interview was an issue Ralph had raised during my initial outreach two years prior. “My offer of lunch is still good, Ralph. If you want to invite Joyce along, I’m good with that, too. Just pick a place and let me know where and when.” We both laughed. But after the smile faded Ralph didn’t look like he thought a free lunch would be sufficient. I mused as I drove away. I’ll probably pay what he wants. I need the information. I hope he accepts monthly payments. © 2011 Bruce A. Smith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #21410 February 3, 2011 Great job Bruce. Now go for the harder interview target: Eageleye Pete. He's already been cleared by the FBI on DNA, so he has little to worry about. I'll bet Pete is all over this uprising in Egypt. I keep looking for him in on scene footage. He didn't miss Tiananmen Square. It must be killing him to be in Windsor CA while a revolution is unfolding abroad. If we offered to parachute Pete right into the thick of it in Cairo I kniow he'd say yes without a moment's hesitation. I am glad Ralph didn't charge you his normal fee. You can now put a price tag on what being "a friend of Jerry" is worth. Ralph is the only ex military P 51 pilot I know who doesnt make a big deal about it. That kind of modesty among fighter pilots is rare. Similarly, Jerry doesnt make a big deal about being a Special Forces guy unless you directly challenge his quaiification to render an expert opinion on survival issues. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #21411 February 3, 2011 First, Ralph said that Rataczak told him about the easterly flight path nine years after the skyjacking, in 1980 at Ralph’s retirement party from the FBI, which begs the question why the Cooper case agent in Portland never talked directly with the pilot during the earlier portions of the investigation. “It was the first time I had met Bill,” Ralph added, “and we talked for hours. He flew in just to be at my retirement party.” So, it was Rataczak who flew in for Ralph's retirement party, not Scott. Or did they both fly in? Who broached the topic of the East Path first? Scott, Rataczak, Himms? How did Rataczak know he was over the Washougal basin? Who in this case is a Jesuit? 377 is looking ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21404 February 3, 2011 QuoteRobert. Tina is fine and is doing well. So why can't you leave it alone. You will not be able to contact her. Let it go Jerry It took a lot of effort to get her where she is at now. She is apparently functional. You mess with that balance and you could put her back where she was. I agree, leave it be and move on to something else. NO MORE DAMAGE!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #21405 February 3, 2011 It’s about time such a program was offered to an expectant audience that has long considered this ‘latest’ suspect as viable. Sure there is the natural bias to go running after what on the surface may appear as the legit winner of the race, but we so often fail to see the forest through the trees. Now it will finally be told and we can all decide for ourselves what is fact or fantasy. Is it just a coincidence that they chose the ‘marathon’ format to broadcast the latest suspect? A marathon represents the long haul and legitimacy. Marathon was unique in that it was the ONLY candy bar that came with a calibrated, ruler printed on the package so you would know exactly just how long it was. Either way, I’m keeping an open mind and collecting everything available about this case. I just hope I don’t miss anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #21406 February 3, 2011 So who is watching and anally probing more people these days??? “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they want to probe you” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21407 February 3, 2011 QuoteSo who is watching and anally probing more people these days??? “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they want to probe you” It is to become a Government Health Plan daily ritual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN0XTBctrOM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #21408 February 3, 2011 Take a look at this commercial and the poorly veiled manipulation in the message. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0tUdsvfa10 That’s right, you saw it, a Great Western Bank commercial with John Wayne. Did you notice the fire with a pan acting as a ‘bringing home the bacon’ with the knapsack in the background serving as a ‘packing it in’ metaphor? Did they think the audience would be so dazzled by the American icon of cool, self reliant, you can have the ‘surface of the sun scorching hot’ girl because I shot Liberty Valance and not see that bit of propaganda? It only gets worse. Try and endure this equally tainted piece of shameless overtone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XDaQUd6Qv4 Did we really need the introduction of a man riding too quickly into town with the announcement of ‘He’s coming’? Marathon John lasts a ‘good long time’ versus Quick Carl, who suffers from an affliction some of us may choose to call efficiency. Well the same marketing group must have been in charge of that poorly coded message also. I was able to instantly spot the double entendre represented by Marathon John. We all recognize ‘John’ (hellooooooo) as Patrick Wayne, aka son of the Duke. So Marathon John is serving as a double entendre to Great Western Bank. Nice try Madison Avenue. Good thing all the Cooper researchers can spot this brand of shenanigans, tomfoolery and douchebaggery before it grows out of control (brought to you by: post 21870). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #21409 February 3, 2011 The Hunt for DB Cooper Report: Interview with Ralph Himmelsback On January 30, 2011, I interviewed Ralph Himmelsbach, the retired DB Cooper case agent from the FBI’s Portland, Oregon office. Ralph is very easy to find, suggesting that he wants to be found, which may be the case as he has a book to peddle on the skyjacking, titled : NORJAK: the Investigation of DB Cooper. Nevertheless, my interview with Ralph would not have happened without the encouragement from a Cooper investigator named Jerry Thomas. Since Ralph’s contact information is readily obtained via Google, he was the first person in the Cooper case that I contacted, in 2008. That was after learning of the exploits of Cooper-confessee Barb Dayton from her biographers, Ron and Pat Forman, along with hearing indications of a FBI cover-up. As a result, I was itchin’ to put the Bureau’s feet to the fire and I think Ralph sensed that immediately. Whatever his reason, though, he declined my request for an interview. However, his rejection was delivered graciously, which left a pleasant taste in my mouth concerning Ralph personally. Some time later, with my knowledge of the case growing along with a desire to write a more comprehensive treatise, I asked Ralph again for an interview. But he turned me down a second time. During this period, however, I was in frequent conversation with Jerry, who told me that he considered Ralph a second father. Further, Jerry indicated to me that he had Ralph’s utmost confidence regarding the Cooper skyjacking and that he, Jerry, could speak for Ralph on details of the case. In this light, I asked Jerry on how I could get an interview with Ralph, and I suggested that since I had been turned down twice maybe I should just drop-in on Ralph someday. “I’m sure that would be fine with Ralph,” Jerry told me. “He’s a great guy.” Steeled with that reassurance, I stopped at Ralph’s home in Woodburn, Oregon on my way to Eugene to visit the Carmelite Monastery as part of my corresponding quest to discover the whereabouts of Cooper hostage, flight attendant Tina Mucklow. I was also curious to learn more about Woodburn since Barb told the Formans she landed in hazelnut groves there after parachuting from Flight 305. Woodburn, about 25 miles south of Portland, is on the northern end of the Willamette Valley, (pronounced Wil-LAM-et), a profoundly flat region that stretches south for 100 miles to Eugene. Like bookends, my Cooper journey framed the premier agricultural lands of the Pacific Northwest, and say what you will about Barb’s confession the girl sure knew how to pick an LZ, which, for the uninitiated, is skydiver lingo for “landing zone.” As for Ralph, he lives on 40 acres just east of the Pudding River, and his flooded, muddied land looked just like the river’s name-sake. His expansive house, a mini-mansion really, sits on a hillock in the middle of his farm lands, which I later learned are leased to a local tulip grower. Driving down Ralph’s narrow half-mile driveway through these fields made me feel like I was negotiating a causeway and crossing a moat. This medieval feel is further enhanced when one arrives at Ralph’s compound. The house is elegantly designed with multiple stories and has several surrounding out-buildings. Coupled with the exquisite stone and chrome interiors it looks like the home of a modern-day, Moorish squire. I was just getting out of my pick-up when Ralph marched out of his house to find who had just entered his kingdom. He had a grim look on his face, so I evoked the magic of Jerry Thomas immediately. “Ralph,” I called out. “My name is Bruce Smith and Jerry Thomas said it would be okay if I just dropped-in on you to talk about the DB Cooper case. I hope that’s okay.” Ralph was now upon me. After hearing Jerry’s name he brightened considerably. “You’re a friend of Jerry’s?” he asked. I shrugged, slightly. “Well, sure, c’mon in. We can talk for a few minutes but I’m in the middle of putting the laundry into the washer, so let me finish that first.” Ralph is clearly in his 80s, but looks fit and trim. His grip is strong and he walks easily without any noticeable hitch. He stands about 5’10,” weighs about 185, and his voice is clear and strong. I explained my relationship with Jerry as we walked towards the front door. “I’ve talked with Jerry a bunch on the phone and we’ve emailed each other a lot, but we’ve never actually met.” We got to the front door and Ralph opened it. Handing him my business card I said, “I’m a newspaper reporter and we’ve talked before Ralph. I called you a couple years ago.” “Ah, yes, I remember. We exchanged a couple of emails, too,” he said. “No, never any emails, but I’ve sent you a snail mail packet on what I’ve been working on.” Ralph waved his hands indicting, no matter… We walked into his gorgeous home. “You house is beautiful, Ralph,” I declared. “Thanks. We like it,” he replied. Heading towards the open-spaced kitchen Ralph introduced me to his wife Joyce, who was chopping celery for a family dinner. “This is a friend of Jerry’s,” Ralph called out. “You’re a friend of Jerry’s?” Joyce said joyfully, “It’s wonderful meeting you.” “A pleasure meeting you as well,” I intoned. Joyce and I bantered in the kitchen as Ralph headed to the washing machine. “You sound like you’re from Back East,” she quipped. “Yup, New York,” I said. Just got back this week after spending three months there taking care of my mother. I think my accent really deepened from being back there.” Joyce smiled and talked about her own upbringing in Massachusetts. “Yeah, my family’s got that whole ‘paahk-tha-caah-in-Haavaahd-Yaahd thing,” she said, laughing. After a few moments she begged-off from any more socializing since “the kids” were expected shortly for a Sunday dinner. I saw four place-settings at a small, round table adjacent to the kitchen area. Ralph returned and ushered me into the nearby living room area, motioning me to sit in a large, blue leather recliner. He stretched out in the adjoining couch, also made with the same luscious turquoised-toned leather. “So what are your questions?” he posed. “How well do you know Jerry Thomas?” I answered. “Very well, “Ralph replied. “He was my primary source for investigating the topographical area of where Cooper jumped. Jerry grew up there, and he knows the area very well. Plus, he was an Army Special Forces instructor. He’s got a great background and I knew I could rely absolutely on the accuracy of his reports.” After a pause he continued, “I knew we were getting good information from him on the area.” Ralph paused again, and then added, “I’ve searched the area many times myself, from the air and on the ground.” I was surprised Ralph never said the name of the area directly, so I asked. “Are we talking the Washougal watershed area?” “Yes,” Ralph stated. “How long have you known Jerry?” I continued. “Oh, we, ah, go way back,” Ralph replied. “Did you know him at the beginning of the Cooper investigation, then?” “Oh, no. I guess I’ve known Jerry for about ten years.” “How did he come to join your investigation?” “He volunteered. He initially contacted me and offered to ‘help in any way,’ particularly with any ground searches in the area. “Ralph, it is my understanding that Jerry has posted on the DropZone web site that he knew Cooper suspects Richard McCoy and Sheridan Peterson in Viet Nam. Is that true?” “We’ve never discussed that.” “Speaking of suspects, I understand that 922 individuals have confessed to being DB Cooper. Is that true?” “I don’t remember if that is the exact number, but it was a lot.” “Hundreds?” “Yes, hundreds.” Ralph then shared his perspective on why so many people have confessed to the skyjacking saying that each had an individual motive, but most were ex-cons in state prisons, which are generally pretty crummy places, and they were looking for a better home in a federal penitentiary. “These ex-cons were looking for an upgrade? “Yeah, you could say that. An upgrade.” Ralph chuckled. Warming to the subject of suspects, Ralph launched into a soliloquy on Cooper. Since Ralph is the guy who has called Cooper a “rotten, sleazy criminal” despite the fact that the crew members describe DB as a gentleman, I was not surprised that Ralph’s tone was dismissive. “You have to remember that Cooper was a copycat,” he began. Ralph re-iterated numerous details of the early extortive skyjackings, with the first being conducted by a fellow named Gaylord aboard an Air Canada flight out of Great Falls, Montana two weeks before Cooper’s caper. Without missing a beat, Ralph gave me a summary of the third skyjacking attempt, one carried out by a young man named McNally over Peru, Indiana. In all these recountings I was impressed by Ralph’s memory and cognitive abilities. He may be eighty-something, but he’s still pretty sharp, I thought. Ralph seemed to especially relish talking about skyjacker number four, Richard McCoy. “With each new skyjacking, the skyjackers improved their techniques,” said Ralph, echoing fellow FBI agent Russ Calame’s evaluation of McCoy’s effort. (Calame was the Special Agent in Charge of the Salt Lake City FBI office and the G-man who collared McCoy for his skyjacking in April, 1972. Calame is also co-author of the book: DB Cooper – The Real McCoy.”) As Ralph continued on the subject of McCoy’s skyjacking over Provo, Utah, I was surprised to hear him confirm Calame’s conclusion that McCoy was not at his home in Salt Lake City during the Cooper skyjacking. What I found most interesting is that Ralph was willing to hold an opinion in direct opposition to the current view held by the FBI that McCoy was at home for the Thanksgiving holiday. “We did look at McCoy in the Cooper case, but he was in Las Vegas when the Cooper skyjacking took place,” Ralph declared. I then took a sharp turn in the conversation. “I’d like to ask you about the flight path when Cooper jumped. Is your current understanding that it was east of Victor-23 and over the Washougal watershed. “Yes.” “How did you arrive at that understanding?” “The pilot told me.” As with McCoy’s whereabouts on November 24-25, 1971, Ralph’s perspective on the location of Flight 305 when DB Cooper jumped is in direct conflict with the current view of the FBI, which says the hijacked plane was flying directly along Victor 23, the navigational corridor designated for commercial airliners that roughly parallels Interstate 5 through Washington and Oregon. As such, the FBI says that Flight 305 flew west of Portland and not east, which would have taken it over the Washougal River basin. Ralph continued with an animated discussion about the pilot of Flight 305, Bill Rataczak, and I learned many things. First, Ralph said that Rataczak told him about the easterly flight path nine years after the skyjacking, in 1980 at Ralph’s retirement party from the FBI, which begs the question why the Cooper case agent in Portland never talked directly with the pilot during the earlier portions of the investigation. “It was the first time I had met Bill,” Ralph added, “and we talked for hours. He flew in just to be at my retirement party.” Ralph said his meeting with Rataczak led to a friendship that has grown over the years, with the two men exchanging regular emails and sharing frequent phone calls. When I asked Ralph when he had last spoken with Rataczak, he said, “Oh, about ten days ago.” Further, Ralph told me that Rataczak is very ill with cancer, and his wife also, but worse. “They’re hospital cases, really, at this point,” Ralph said. Throughout our 20-minute conversation Ralph was exceptionally friendly and gracious. Nevertheless, shortly after his daughter arrived for the family meal Ralph firmly announced, “This will have to do. Our family’s getting ready.” We stood and walked to the door. When I asked if he would be open to the possibility of continuing our conversation he seemed circumspect, so I tried another approach. “Maybe if I called you first, like in a couple of days on my way back from Eugene? Tuesday, maybe?” “No, not Tuesday. I’ll be busy all day. I’m undergoing a procedure at my doctor’s.” Ralph described how he was scheduled to receive a spinal injection to relive chronic back pain. I sensed that he wanted the rest of the week free of pesky reporters, so I ceased trying to schedule a follow-up interview. “Well, I hope the procedure goes well for you,” I offered instead. At the door, Ralph asked me what publication I was writing for and what angle I was taking on the case. “I’m lucky, Ralph, I don’t have to prove who DB Cooper is. I just have to write a good story. To that end, I’m taking a comprehensive approach – who the suspects are, how the investigations have gone, and I’ll explore all the mysteries.” Ralph laughed and we agreed that the case is emergent, but for different reasons. Ralph said that he thought the case was in the public eye because of all the recent media attention, such as the current History Channel documentary on Kenny Christiansen and the National Geographic special of a year ago. “Half the country is too young to know the case and now the media has to exploit a new market,” he said. My view that the case is gaining public interest because of the advent of DNA testing and the ability of the public and reporters to delve deeply into the case via the Internet was lost in a babble of goodbyes. When we reached my pick-up we shook hands and Ralph announced, “I let you off easy today. I usually charge for what I’ve just given you.” The question of payment for an interview was an issue Ralph had raised during my initial outreach two years prior. “My offer of lunch is still good, Ralph. If you want to invite Joyce along, I’m good with that, too. Just pick a place and let me know where and when.” We both laughed. But after the smile faded Ralph didn’t look like he thought a free lunch would be sufficient. I mused as I drove away. I’ll probably pay what he wants. I need the information. I hope he accepts monthly payments. © 2011 Bruce A. Smith Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #21410 February 3, 2011 Great job Bruce. Now go for the harder interview target: Eageleye Pete. He's already been cleared by the FBI on DNA, so he has little to worry about. I'll bet Pete is all over this uprising in Egypt. I keep looking for him in on scene footage. He didn't miss Tiananmen Square. It must be killing him to be in Windsor CA while a revolution is unfolding abroad. If we offered to parachute Pete right into the thick of it in Cairo I kniow he'd say yes without a moment's hesitation. I am glad Ralph didn't charge you his normal fee. You can now put a price tag on what being "a friend of Jerry" is worth. Ralph is the only ex military P 51 pilot I know who doesnt make a big deal about it. That kind of modesty among fighter pilots is rare. Similarly, Jerry doesnt make a big deal about being a Special Forces guy unless you directly challenge his quaiification to render an expert opinion on survival issues. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #21411 February 3, 2011 First, Ralph said that Rataczak told him about the easterly flight path nine years after the skyjacking, in 1980 at Ralph’s retirement party from the FBI, which begs the question why the Cooper case agent in Portland never talked directly with the pilot during the earlier portions of the investigation. “It was the first time I had met Bill,” Ralph added, “and we talked for hours. He flew in just to be at my retirement party.” So, it was Rataczak who flew in for Ralph's retirement party, not Scott. Or did they both fly in? Who broached the topic of the East Path first? Scott, Rataczak, Himms? How did Rataczak know he was over the Washougal basin? Who in this case is a Jesuit? 377 is looking ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #21412 February 4, 2011 No! No! No! Farflung... The elephant on the bottom right is not a Mini-Cooper Marathon, it's a Major Pooper Marathon. Gheesh... can't you get anything right? Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #21413 February 4, 2011 QuoteGreat job Bruce. Now go for the harder interview target: Eageleye Pete. He's already been cleared by the FBI on DNA, so he has little to worry about. I'll bet Pete is all over this uprising in Egypt. I keep looking for him in on scene footage. He didn't miss Tiananmen Square. It must be killing him to be in Windsor CA while a revolution is unfolding abroad. If we offered to parachute Pete right into the thick of it in Cairo I kniow he'd say yes without a moment's hesitation. Quote Ah, Three-Seven-Seven, you sure do know our Petey. The Eagle-Eyed One is near the top of my to-do list, but I've got to refuel my bank account. I've got to get The Mountain News off the ground before I can fly down to Cali. Calling All Angels........! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #21414 February 4, 2011 Quote Skyjack 71 says in part, regarding the DB Cooper entries at Wikipedia: Quote 'Georger, Thank You so much for that. He (yours truly) deleted the other suspects to almost zero...' Whoa, now. Pull up those horses for a second. I did NOT touch any entry at Wiki regarding D.B. Cooper except to update the entry regarding Christiansen. Of course it is larger than the other suspects, because I had a lot of ground to cover. But I did NOT delete, shorten, or modify anything from any other paragraph at Wiki on the Cooper page. This can be easily checked. They record all the IP addresses of people who make changes. My IP address is: 24.22.148.124 I don't go to Wiki - just what I am told..I don't like to UPSET myself. Sorry if that is not true and it was second hand information or information I misinterperted. I do know a long time ago I checked it and someone had altered the Weber portions to non truths - so I just never went back....I tried to correct it to be factual and never was able to do so. So "LET it GO" I said to myself and Never went back. Don't you guys wish I would LET IT GO in this thread? Perhaps that time is coming as it is increasingly difficult for me to sit at the computer and type. Is there such a word as increasingly? I just do NOT bother to look things up now. Starting to loose the written word and have difficulties working puzzles I have done for yrs. Maybe it is just medications and my state of mind - or the dumb blonde syndrome has taken control..Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #21415 February 4, 2011 Ralph re-iterated numerous details of the early extortive skyjackings, with the first being conducted by a fellow named Gaylord aboard an Air Canada flight out of Great Falls, Montana two weeks before Cooper’s caper. Who is Gaylord, above? Could Ralph mean "Paul Cini" ? It was Cinci who hijacked an Air Canada flight which landed at Grt Falls, MT. (The guy Cooper supposedly copied). I find no Gaylord mentioned in any hijacking 1968-85. Anyone else have him? Cinci does appear to be the first parachute related hijacking in the USA proximate to the Cooper case. Many followed Cooper but many preceded him also - more than has been noted here at DZ. Between Jan-April 1971 there were five domestic hijackings (more if you include attempts which didnt get airborn but resulted in an arrest). There were at least seven more HJ's between April and November, and 3 more (excluding attempts) after Cooper, closing out a busy year. There were people in the FBI and elsewhere keeping stats, noting clusters, and clusters within clusters. Which cluster does Cooper fit in? (Which cluster would Kenny fit into had he ever hijacked?) Stats seem to suggest that by November of 71 Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, and the area west to Utah and Montana specifically, was a higher than average risk cluster. So, in what sense is Cooper unique but also common, so far as clustering data is concerned? How would Kenny stack up as viewed from a clustering trait viewpoint? Is Cooper really a copy cat and if so in what sense that has meaning? He's one of the first to use a parachute. I will just leave this open . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BruceSmith 3 #21416 February 4, 2011 Here's the latest guys. I have received numerous PMs, emails and phone calls from DZfolks over the past few days - thanks to all for your help and encouragement. One new piece of information comes from a member of the DZ commmunity who claims that he has documentary proof that Tina lived in the Troutdale, Oregon area in 1979 and attended the nearby Mt. Hood Community College. I have yet to confirm that or see the documentation. But- Remember, six months or so later, in the spring of 1980, she was walking in the door of the Carmel of Maria Regina. In between, the money is found at where? TINA'S BAR!!! Ya just can't make this stuff, Hollywood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 197 #21417 February 4, 2011 Maybe Tina actually took the money Cooper offered, went up to the Bar later, buried it herself, had the USGS rename the spot, and then entered the nunnery as cover. Not a bad plan. It could happen, right? Blame the way I am on Mother. It's all her fault, trust me on this. http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2008/05/11/1482042-its-mothers-day-and-my-mom-is-cooler-than-your-mom You are saying the USGS named Fazio's beach Tina's Bar/Tena Bar ? Where in hell did you get that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #21414 February 4, 2011 Quote Skyjack 71 says in part, regarding the DB Cooper entries at Wikipedia: Quote 'Georger, Thank You so much for that. He (yours truly) deleted the other suspects to almost zero...' Whoa, now. Pull up those horses for a second. I did NOT touch any entry at Wiki regarding D.B. Cooper except to update the entry regarding Christiansen. Of course it is larger than the other suspects, because I had a lot of ground to cover. But I did NOT delete, shorten, or modify anything from any other paragraph at Wiki on the Cooper page. This can be easily checked. They record all the IP addresses of people who make changes. My IP address is: 24.22.148.124 I don't go to Wiki - just what I am told..I don't like to UPSET myself. Sorry if that is not true and it was second hand information or information I misinterperted. I do know a long time ago I checked it and someone had altered the Weber portions to non truths - so I just never went back....I tried to correct it to be factual and never was able to do so. So "LET it GO" I said to myself and Never went back. Don't you guys wish I would LET IT GO in this thread? Perhaps that time is coming as it is increasingly difficult for me to sit at the computer and type. Is there such a word as increasingly? I just do NOT bother to look things up now. Starting to loose the written word and have difficulties working puzzles I have done for yrs. Maybe it is just medications and my state of mind - or the dumb blonde syndrome has taken control..Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #21415 February 4, 2011 Ralph re-iterated numerous details of the early extortive skyjackings, with the first being conducted by a fellow named Gaylord aboard an Air Canada flight out of Great Falls, Montana two weeks before Cooper’s caper. Who is Gaylord, above? Could Ralph mean "Paul Cini" ? It was Cinci who hijacked an Air Canada flight which landed at Grt Falls, MT. (The guy Cooper supposedly copied). I find no Gaylord mentioned in any hijacking 1968-85. Anyone else have him? Cinci does appear to be the first parachute related hijacking in the USA proximate to the Cooper case. Many followed Cooper but many preceded him also - more than has been noted here at DZ. Between Jan-April 1971 there were five domestic hijackings (more if you include attempts which didnt get airborn but resulted in an arrest). There were at least seven more HJ's between April and November, and 3 more (excluding attempts) after Cooper, closing out a busy year. There were people in the FBI and elsewhere keeping stats, noting clusters, and clusters within clusters. Which cluster does Cooper fit in? (Which cluster would Kenny fit into had he ever hijacked?) Stats seem to suggest that by November of 71 Seattle, Vancouver, Portland, and the area west to Utah and Montana specifically, was a higher than average risk cluster. So, in what sense is Cooper unique but also common, so far as clustering data is concerned? How would Kenny stack up as viewed from a clustering trait viewpoint? Is Cooper really a copy cat and if so in what sense that has meaning? He's one of the first to use a parachute. I will just leave this open . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BruceSmith 3 #21416 February 4, 2011 Here's the latest guys. I have received numerous PMs, emails and phone calls from DZfolks over the past few days - thanks to all for your help and encouragement. One new piece of information comes from a member of the DZ commmunity who claims that he has documentary proof that Tina lived in the Troutdale, Oregon area in 1979 and attended the nearby Mt. Hood Community College. I have yet to confirm that or see the documentation. But- Remember, six months or so later, in the spring of 1980, she was walking in the door of the Carmel of Maria Regina. In between, the money is found at where? TINA'S BAR!!! Ya just can't make this stuff, Hollywood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #21417 February 4, 2011 Maybe Tina actually took the money Cooper offered, went up to the Bar later, buried it herself, had the USGS rename the spot, and then entered the nunnery as cover. Not a bad plan. It could happen, right? Blame the way I am on Mother. It's all her fault, trust me on this. http://adventurebooks.newsvine.com/_news/2008/05/11/1482042-its-mothers-day-and-my-mom-is-cooler-than-your-mom You are saying the USGS named Fazio's beach Tina's Bar/Tena Bar ? Where in hell did you get that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21418 February 4, 2011 "5. Knoss is claiming a movie was made and that he had a say in it. -6. Pictures of a wrestler are being posted claiming this to be McCoy." Post #21752 of 21884 Quote Hopefully we can clear the air on Jo's refusal to accept McCoy's involvement. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0063440/ (copy & paste) This is the actor who was the 'look-alike' stand-n for Mac in the FBI training film for Cooper Flight 305. I have the film on tape. The attachment below is a poor but actual picture of Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr. I have many pictures of Mac. Most all of them are with his beard. You can see the similarity to the stand-in actor. The newspaper photos of Mac are another stand-in actor, Henry Selick. I have identification photos of him as well. You can Google others, (not-so-obvious) of Henry. The photo I posted shows details that positively identify him, post surgery, as the 'fake McCoy.' http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=184279488268435&set=o.10001004301 (copy & paste) Mac is still alive and can supply factual information on anything there are questions about, but he can not openly participate. He has a new identity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #21419 February 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteMaybe Tina actually took the money Cooper offered, went up to the Bar later, buried it herself, had the USGS rename the spot, and then entered the nunnery as cover. Not a bad plan. It could happen, right? You are saying the USGS NAMED Tina's Bar/Tena Bar ? These are Government Boys we're talking about. Yeah, it could happen. The same folks who brought you free cheese and the atom bomb. NOT FUNNY AT ALL. The definition of a 'fertile mind' has obviously been misconstrued here. Lower in the dictionary is the word, 'fertilizer' which is the term that should be used to describe this half-cock author's brain. Anyone that can launch a major effort to represent 'Cooper wannabe #972' without checking known written requests to hoax the world, as the 'real true Cooper' would automatically try to involve an already seriously abused and vulnerable victim of this Project in further degradation and inuendo of criminal involvement. Have you no sense of decency at all? I have a very hard time trying to think of any American who is a low-life of proportions equal to yours. I find your continual self-centered perspective to be beyond the real of civil acceptability. I believe you to fill the bill for the true definition for rectal sphincter in the dictionary, definition number one. You could even be a lawyer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21419 February 4, 2011 QuoteQuoteMaybe Tina actually took the money Cooper offered, went up to the Bar later, buried it herself, had the USGS rename the spot, and then entered the nunnery as cover. Not a bad plan. It could happen, right? You are saying the USGS NAMED Tina's Bar/Tena Bar ? These are Government Boys we're talking about. Yeah, it could happen. The same folks who brought you free cheese and the atom bomb. NOT FUNNY AT ALL. The definition of a 'fertile mind' has obviously been misconstrued here. Lower in the dictionary is the word, 'fertilizer' which is the term that should be used to describe this half-cock author's brain. Anyone that can launch a major effort to represent 'Cooper wannabe #972' without checking known written requests to hoax the world, as the 'real true Cooper' would automatically try to involve an already seriously abused and vulnerable victim of this Project in further degradation and inuendo of criminal involvement. Have you no sense of decency at all? I have a very hard time trying to think of any American who is a low-life of proportions equal to yours. I find your continual self-centered perspective to be beyond the real of civil acceptability. I believe you to fill the bill for the true definition for rectal sphincter in the dictionary, definition number one. You could even be a lawyer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21420 February 4, 2011 QuoteBob Knoss says in part: Quote'Have you no sense of decency at all? I have a very hard time trying to think of any American who is a low-life of proportions equal to yours...' That's a funny way of putting it.... You know absolutely nothing about me. My last few posts just show that indeed, I do have a sense of humor. That's HUMOR? Sadomasochistic humor is as funny as rape. Go burn your books. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #21421 February 4, 2011 Arguing over candidates pulled out of the thin air has accomplished nothing. Let's try a different approach, as follows ... (A) Who was Gaylord as quoted by Bruce below? Ralph re-iterated numerous details of the early extortive skyjackings, with the first being conducted by a fellow named Gaylord aboard an Air Canada flight out of Great Falls, Montana two weeks before Cooper’s caper (B) Which cluster does the Cooper hijacking belong to? (Hint: Cuban hijackings peaked in 1968 but were still an active concern clear up to 1980. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of _Cuba-United_States_aircraft_hijackings) (C) Does Kenny or any other candidate have a Cuban connection. Jo Weber hasc laimed Duane had a Cuban connection? (D) Was there a North Western cluster which emerged by 1970 which includes California, Montana, Indaho ... which was different in some fundamental way from say the Cuban hijacking cluster? (E) Did Cooper manifest traits which could be linked to the Cuban cluster? (F) During what year did the Cuban cluster expand to involve previously un affedted areas of the United States? (G) How is Cooper's hijacking unique from all clustering traits, if it is? Himmelsbach says Cooper was a copy cat (but McCoy was not?). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #21422 February 4, 2011 Mr Blevins, I was saying don't feed the troll, but it seems you may be getting him to the boundary of ban-worthy retaliation .. in which case go ahead please. (btw Jo the answer to both your questions is "yes".) (sigh.)Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21423 February 4, 2011 Cuban connection? None. Duane may have been in the Bay of Pigs invasion with a few other guys, but I think that is it. Totally internal operation, no outside connections despite what Nuttall may think. Ask Jerry if he knew Tony Solatto (the head-in-the-vise guy) in Mexico. I think not. "(G) How is Cooper's hijacking unique from all clustering traits, if it is? Himmelsbach says Cooper was a copy cat (but McCoy was not?)." Cooper was NOT a copy cat. The plan was initiated in the early months of 1968 and carried out as planned. McCoy's jump was planned several months later in 1968 and approved about August, 1968, to follow Cooper's jump. Delays in implementation were encountered do to ongoing negotiations that finally bogged down. We were not aware of any jumps from a 727 at that time. There were plenty of bets on making it, however. Duane rolled the dice. Mac bet on Pass. Duane whapped his right leg, Mac learned and went down the stairs backwards. Copy cat or student? "Who is Gaylord?" Another reversal joke. Gaylord is a CAT! Gees!! See attachment. The dude from Canada was a mental case. He traded his gun for a sandwich because he was hungry!! Some great criminal mind to copy there! Two weeks to plan the Cooper incident? Duane couldn't have even purchased a chute and made his 'bomb' in that short a time. That is as stupid as saying McCoy was Cooper like O'Hara, et al. I though you guys were at least halfway smart. Some of this stuff is really out-to-lunch! Grasping at straws? NO MORE FICTION! That's the deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 197 #21424 February 4, 2011 Quote Cuban connection? None. Duane may have been in the Bay of Pigs invasion with a few other guys, but I think that is it. Totally internal operation, no outside connections despite what Nuttall may think. Ask Jerry if he knew Tony Solatto (the head-in-the-vise guy) in Mexico. I think not. "(G) How is Cooper's hijacking unique from all clustering traits, if it is? Himmelsbach says Cooper was a copy cat (but McCoy was not?)." Cooper was NOT a copy cat. The plan was initiated in the early months of 1968 and carried out as planned. McCoy's jump was planned several months later in 1968 and approved about August, 1968, to follow Cooper's jump. Delays in implementation were encountered do to ongoing negotiations that finally bogged down. We were not aware of any jumps from a 727 at that time. There were plenty of bets on making it, however. Duane rolled the dice. Mac bet on Pass. Duane whapped his right leg, Mac learned and went down the stairs backwards. Copy cat or student? "Who is Gaylord?" Another reversal joke. Gaylord is a CAT! Gees!! The dude from Canada was a mental case. He traded his gun for a sandwich because he was hungry!! Some great criminal mind to copy there! Two weeks to plan the Cooper incident? Duane couldn't have even purchased a chute and made his 'bomb' in that short a time. That is as stupid as saying McCoy was Cooper like O'Hara, et al. I though you guys were at least halfway smart. Some of this stuff is really out-to-lunch! Grasping at straws? NO MORE FICTION! That's the deal. well at least this is germane, in a way - not book binding and social advice from Bruce and Blevins Ltd. So Gaylord is a cat! That figures. Bruce does get his 'gaylords" mixed up. Planned in 68. Peak year for the Cuban connection. 70+ in one year, over 100 if you add in attempts and conspiracies broken. One problem with your scenario is the schedule for 11-24 was a late addition, so how can an op in 68 work if the flight doesnt even exist ... they must have layed in wait. [edit] ooops. They add the flight. Got it! "We were not aware of any jumps from a 727 at that time" ??? That's bogus. You know damned well there had been foreign ops from ______________ and ______________ orn. Let's not mention the planning commitee at Tan Son Nhut. That's common knoweldge! Snow even finally ventured in to confirm a piece of that - as you Snow is never wrong, just always very late and terminally incomplete. "Light Snow with snow thunder". So, your scenario is a bit off, fact-wise. But, let's get to the meat of this. Protocols and mission purpose. Why do you pick a North West location? What does that gain you? You know the CIA and Cuba were already negotiating - they had a draft by the end of '68! Revisions 69, 70, and 71 with a continuing agreement to keep working ont his. Other agreements flowed from this to all countries affected. Why in hell do you pull off an Op staged in Portland? You might as well pull of an op in Nome, or at Thule! Explain to me exactly what this op was supposed to accomplish - outside of upsetting a lot of chickens (to say nothing about those ranchers in Montana!). You say Duane was trained. Baloney. How do you "train" an embecile with PKD? I will await any response you care to invent. Im going to go have a nap and dream about . . . owls? One final question I cant resist asking! Did J Edgar know about this. Yes or No? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #21425 February 4, 2011 QuoteBob Knoss says in part: Quote'Some of this stuff is really out-to-lunch! Grasping at straws? NO MORE FICTION! That's the deal...' Well, if that's your new plan for explaining your version of Norjack, I'm all for it. But I'm not getting my hopes up. Typical, Robert. You can't even SPELL it, much less understand it. It is WAY over your head, dude! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
