DB Cooper

[377 20]

Another proxy request for a response Georger:

Georger comments on how the dredge spoils weren't moved more than 50 yards from the location in the picture, as best as I can understand georger.

That's wrong, because there is a clay layer that Palmer says is from dredging, at the money find.

So: we know for certain, that dredge spoils made it to the money find

He implies that dredge spoils never made it to the money find location.

Isn't that clearly wrong?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 197]

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Georger, welcome back.

I'm back home after 2 weeks away (one extra night thanks to the blizzard) and I just cannot face reading the 20 or so pages since I went away, can someone please new stuff?
I did pick up some interesting stuff on memory that I'll post tomorrow ...I guess technically later today - now 2.30am here, I'm off to sleep!

Thanks Orange, and a very happy New Year from
us here to you & yours.

[georger 197]

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Makes sense to spend some more time on the Tena Bar money. It's real DBC evidence.

Georger, can you respond to these questions please?

were sites 3 and 4 for the dredging he's discussing, on the farm across the Columbia that was later the result of a lawsuit (because the sand affected it's farmability)

Or on the beachfront?

basically: the question is: sites 3 and 4, are they on the other side of the Columbia

377

sorry, I should have stated that (meant to).

Site 1 = Tina Bar. Site 2 = south end of the Fazio
property ( sand for their reclamation business as
per contract with the US Corps of Engrs).
Site 3 is on the Oregon side basically straight
across from T_Bar. Site No.4 is south of site No.
3 near the 97+17ft marker.

Obviously, different areas of dredging went to
different sites ... basically that which was closest
to the dredging work at the time.

Now, I know you will refer to the USGS photos (74)
to confirm these locations. The two slump piles on
Tina Bar are obvious, material at site-2 less obvious, site-3 barely shows at all (or I need better
glasses), and site-4 is even less obvious.

All of the sites are officially documented.

[skyjack71 0]

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It was my choice and my destiny - because I hate liars and dirty government and thieves

Come on Jo. Don't get too moralistic here. Duane was two of the three above. You didn't hate him.

Watergate? Do you realize you've already linked Duane to RFK, JFK, MLK and the Bay of Pigs? What's next?

The idea that Norjack was a CIA job is completely illogical. I don't buy it. Govt conspiracies are usually just convenient excuses for those who can't solve civilian crimes.

When I found out Duane had done REAL time - I was 12 yrs into the marriage and he was on dialysis. What kind of person would I have been if I had walked away at that time?

I don't know if he was CIA or not - but, what I do know - is the track record and the people he knew and the places he was in and the things he told me (things I did NOT know involved CIA knowledge or that were secret at that time).

I actually met someone involved in Watergate thru Duane. I met other parties involved in Covert action during the same period of time. I had no idea who these individuals where - I did NOT keep up with things like that.

I DO NOT believe the Skyjack was a CIA job. THAT is Caretaker or what-ever name you wish to call him or he calls himself. I do KNOW Duane's involvement in some shady things during the yrs - 1960 thru 1969 resulted in his having more than a casual involvement with some main characters in those actions - too much not to have been part of it.

The JMWave (Bay of Pigs) story was told to me by Duane's own brother. A friend of the family contacted the brother about Duane's activies in the Florida area during the Bay of Pigs. (in writing and on the phone). I know first hand that Duane had more than a casual involvement in the Miami area - with known Mafia elements. He knew all about the planes and told me things, but the dumb blonde in me didn't know what he was talking about.
I was introduce to some people in the Miami area who I found later were involved in the Bay of Pigs - but I didn't know who these people where until I started to investigate Duane's background and revisited the past.


The N.O. thing is REAL and it is NOT pretty...now I will talk in circles the way Jamie does. I cannot tell what happened in N.O., but some real bad things happened involving people he cared about. After leaving the area the N.O. and Mobile area - he learned of the damage and went back to rectify and justify - he was out for revenge. Had it not been for his actions and involvement prior to 1968 this incident would never have happened..and the damage to those he loved would never have occured.

Duane wanted to blame everyone, but himself for this. He was trying to rectify the damage, but it was too late. When the kidney thing came up in 1970/71 - he knew exactly what he was going to do - it was pay-back time. The DEED was DONE. This was an expression Duane only used TWICE in my 17 yrs with him ...but, I didn't understand what he was talking about.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SchlitznGrins 0]

Most likely a hoax? But pretty bizarre nonetheless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzgoVQLG7k

[skyjack71 0]

Never thought I would say that did ya? Maybe now this thread can get back on TARGET - it has been utter chaos here in Cooperville, DZ. (Hey, that is good - Cooperville, DZ)! New town, New State. Makes more sense than all of the xxxx that has passed thru the bowels of this thread in the last 18 days.

Whew - just be sure to go to Sam's and get lots of T-paper! We sure do need it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[smokin99 0]

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Most likely a hoax? But pretty bizarre nonetheless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWzgoVQLG7k

Yeah...I think that the general consensus is that it's a hoax....someone who has a lot of time on their hands...though, in mho, a pretty cool sense of humor.
(I wonder how many takes it took to narrate without laughing)......

on the other hand....maybe the skunk knows more about this case right now than anyone.

but....A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.....Winston Churchill

[georger 197]

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Never thought I would say that did ya? Maybe now this thread can get back on TARGET - it has been utter chaos here in Cooperville, DZ. (Hey, that is good - Cooperville, DZ)! New town, New State. Makes more sense than all of the xxxx that has passed thru the bowels of this thread in the last 18 days.

Whew - just be sure to go to Sam's and get lots of T-paper! We sure do need it.

Thanks Jo. Have a good 011. There could be
lots happening .... or maybe nothing. Its almost
in the hands of the gods, but people will be trying
to make progress a finish a few things up.
Shalom.

[skyjack71 0]

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Another proxy request for a response Georger:

Georger comments on how the dredge spoils weren't moved more than 50 yards from the location in the picture, as best as I can understand georger.

That's wrong, because there is a clay layer that Palmer says is from dredging, at the money find.

So: we know for certain, that dredge spoils made it to the money find

He implies that dredge spoils never made it to the money find location.

Isn't that clearly wrong?

377

There are only a few people that know exactly what that report says. I just remembered there were dredged spoils in the soil layer, but NOT in the layer the money was found in. Seems like it was in layers below the find.

I can understand if there had been dredging below the money find - and a layer was deposited along the shore and then several weeks later sediment and other things the dredging stirred up may have washed ashore...

Something as simple as that could put the money there....but it was the consensus of Palmer and others that the MONEY was NOT in the WATER for 8 yrs...that it had to have been protected and NOT in the river.

Unless that money was in a sealed container - it woud have been unidentifiable 9 yrs later due to the mud and river sedimentation. Put a bill in MUD and water and it will absorb the sedimentation...those bills were ratty, but not discolored in the manner 8 yrs would have created.

Anyone claiming that money was in the water for 8 yrs prior to washing ashore - has to know there had to be human intervention. The money would have to have been stored in a container other than what Cooper had available on the plane.

The condition of the money does come into play...even though there are those who would choose to ignore this.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 3]

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Anyone claiming that money was in the water for 8 yrs prior to washing ashore - has to know there had to be human intervention. The money would have to have been stored in a container other than what Cooper had available on the plane.

However, that's not the only possibility here and human intervention isn't required.

For example, let's say Cooper got snagged on a tree somewhere up the watershed from the money's final resting place. The money stays tied to him and he dies of exposure. Now the money is tied up in a sack high above the ground for a number of years, safe and pretty much every time it gets wet, it can later dry right back out. It stays in fairly good condition that way. However, one year the rains are so heavy they topple the tree. Everything comes crashing down and ends up floating downstream where it ends up essentially where it's found 6, 7, 8 years later.

It's only one possibility of several, but it completely negates your statement that the ONLY way it could have gotten there was by human intervention within 8 years of it being found.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Orange1 0]

OK, so I am not going to read back...

Here are 2 snippets I took from an exhibition on the brain at the Museum of Natural History in NY. Both of them to do with memory and recall, and I don't think it is really anything new compared to what has been said before but I think it puts it nicely - especially the Disneyland example (mem2). In other words, as has been said before, eyewitness testimony has probably been unreliable for a very long time, from when the eyewitnesses began seeing news reports etc...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JamieCooper 0]

theres just no way of proving how the money got to Tena Bar or how long it was there.
way too many variables and possibilities to narrow it down with current technology.


I agree with oranges post about the unreliability of memory however.
I don't think these studies took into account the priority factor.
for example.
lets say 100 women say hi to me in a single night and introduce themselves.
will I remember all of their names?
in most cases I don't remember any of their names.
but if one of them seems like she may try to kill me later, or really stands out for a positive reason, I'm way more likely to remember her.
even more so if someone I know points her out.
so yes, our memories are less reliable than is commonly thought in general but also at times better depending on priority as well.
this is a built in survival skill that is exploited all the time in advertising.

I'll give another example but one possibly connected to the DB Cooper case.
I don't know what job position my father went to seattle for, only that my mother said he went there for a job at Boeing.
another would be the "Billy Volks" murder.
his actual name was "Willie Vocks" which wasn't as important to me as my father having been a suspect in that case, and having been cleared of the charges.
I remember my mother saying the sheriff did it also, but not much else.
only the prioritized key info.
the rest wasn't as important to me so I didn't encode and store it away.

[JamieCooper 0]

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Now back to Jamie - he posted these phrases:

"so I stole the money, they stole it from us first", "noone was hurt", "sometimes you gotta break the rules", "they owed us that, at least that", "you don't know how things are gonna turn out ahead of time", "later you find out you were wrong", " didn't hurt anyone for it", "when things get rough you just keep going", "you know how they are in the bars, so I made friends and got a ride"... and alot more rambling sometimes sounding proud others sounding regretful

So HOW old was Jamie when all of this is told to him - was he still a child? Who is Noone (remember I have been looking for a man with a similar name - it is in the thread). Duane had told me he used to know a man in the Vancouver area - it was something like Nooten, Newton, Newsome, Neustel.....others can look it up and I communicated with a man who has a DZ in Or about the man. Since my memory was vacant except for possible names listed above - that search never went anywhere.

first of all, noone, is "no" "one" as in nobody.

how old was I? thats a good question?
it may even be more than one conversation condensed into one in my memory.
I didn't really understand even what the conversation was about at the time so I don't remember all of it.
and of what I do remember it's mostly more of a general meaning more than exact phrases.
I remember some phrases like I posted and even more but is not in a sequential order and some parts are hazy.
because thats how real memories are!
this is also why I wanted to say what I remembered before going back and reading all the older posts.
so my memories wouldn't be tainted and possibly influenced by what I read.
in the future I suggest this forum take that into consideration.
get the story before you tell them to read all the other posts.
otherwise it's like youre handing a witness the casefile to read before getting a statement from them as to what they saw.

[Orange1 0]

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JamieCooper,


If you can remember events that occurred as far back as when you were 9 mos. old, then you did not experience “infantile amnesia”. Infantile amnesia is a process that we all go through as our brain develops.

Since you didn’t experience this process, I suggest that you stop trying to find out if your father was involved in NORJAK and, instead, find a good neurologist, because you are truly “a medical miracle”. Your brain developed in a way that no other human’s ever has or at least has ever come to the attention of brain and memory researchers.

I once told my parents about a memory I had of my aunt's lounge (sitting room). I described it pretty well, to be told they had moved out of that apartment when I was 6 months old. Other than that however I cannot recall much before I was probably about 3 years old. Do those books mention any such incidents, I guess it might be called a single memory?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[nigel99 144]

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I once told my parents about a memory I had of my aunt's lounge (sitting room). I described it pretty well, to be told they had moved out of that apartment when I was 6 months old. Other than that however I cannot recall much before I was probably about 3 years old. Do those books mention any such incidents, I guess it might be called a single memory?

I think that these are sometimes false recall where you have seen pictures/heard discussions and your mind fills in the gaps

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[SKYWHUFFO 0]

Georger,

Put all this Cooper stuff aside and talk serious stuff for a moment. BASKETBALL!
Who is going to win the Missouri Valley Conference this year, Your Northern Iowa boys, or my Indiana State Sycamores? HA! Do we need to make a bet on it?

Welcome back my friend!

[CaretakerAl 0]

"Quade, Neither I nor anyone else has got the Cooper matter "all figured out". And I for one have never claimed otherwise."
Robert Nicholson

Wrong! None of you would admit to recognizing a bulldog if you were hit with a frickin' Mac truck!! Some if it is pure ego problems, some is brainwashing, some is criminal misdirection, some is just plain and simple stupidity or total blindness. You can play 'what if' and 'yah, but' games with minutia until the money rots to mush. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, too. The $200K, less the pocketful Duane took and the change the kid found, is all in Tena Bar, if that is what turns your crank.

I do have it all figured out, have had since it happened, have been threatened by 'Cxx' and others for what I know. My lawyers say, "Shut up!" Everybody says, "Shut up!" Sorry, I have a grudge, too. My information is truthful, no bad memory! No brainwashing. No ego trip. No story to sell, no interest in a reward to collect, or cash to dig up. My only interest is to expose what really happened. No copywrites, no TV shows, nothing. Verify what I have said. You can never prove otherwise without false information. (Which abounds more in this case than in the JFK assassination) There is an old addage: If you can't handle the truth, you baffle them with bullshit. THAT, people, is what a whole crew of devotees has done. I won't participate in that approach to dealing with ending this case. Too many people know I speak the truth, but they all think they have something to fear from agreeing with anything. If you want to solve your quest, verify my statements. If not, I understand the game. Play on, but I am on the record NOW with a Wiki-leaks Special Report. Verification will be presented soon enough, first hand, I guarantee it. Case Exposed. EOM

[hangdiver 1]

I also have memories of my early childhood. I can distinctly remember my first birthday.

One of my uncles gave me a toy truck. That truck was a semi tractor/trailer. I can remember opening the doors on the van trailer and smelling that wonderful smell of the new, probably, lead paint. I was born very close to christmas so I also remember the tree along with that christmas tree smell.

I have other memories that have been verified from two years to three years old. I also have memories from earlier in my infancy but I have always viewed them as highly unreliable but they are still memories as far as my brain knows.

As Orange1 has shown our memories are malleable. So if I suspect my own memory, I am going to highly suspect other peoples memories as well.

Back to Cooper...Occam's razor tells me Cooper cratered. Where(not were Jo)is the real question and possibly the most important fact that is still missing to this day because of the unreliable memories and conflicting reports of those involved as to where(not were Jo)he exited the aircraft. If the exit point is known we would at least know which haystack to look for the needle. Apparently it's not too far from the money find.
My bet is Cooper found water on impact, I know, statistically it's more probable he hit terra firma but as a jumper I have seen many unlikely probabilities so you can throw the stats out the window with Cooper.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

Well CaretakerAl, posting on DZ is not STFU is it?
I think you wasted your money on an attorney.

And I see you blowing your own horn before the parade.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[Robert99 37]

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"Quade, Neither I nor anyone else has got the Cooper matter "all figured out". And I for one have never claimed otherwise."
Robert Nicholson

Wrong! None of you would admit to recognizing a bulldog if you were hit with a frickin' Mac truck!! Some if it is pure ego problems, some is brainwashing, some is criminal misdirection, some is just plain and simple stupidity or total blindness. You can play 'what if' and 'yah, but' games with minutia until the money rots to mush. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, too. The $200K, less the pocketful Duane took and the change the kid found, is all in Tena Bar, if that is what turns your crank.

I do have it all figured out, have had since it happened, have been threatened by 'Cxx' and others for what I know. My lawyers say, "Shut up!" Everybody says, "Shut up!" Sorry, I have a grudge, too. My information is truthful, no bad memory! No brainwashing. No ego trip. No story to sell, no interest in a reward to collect, or cash to dig up. My only interest is to expose what really happened. No copywrites, no TV shows, nothing. Verify what I have said. You can never prove otherwise without false information. (Which abounds more in this case than in the JFK assassination) There is an old addage: If you can't handle the truth, you baffle them with bullshit. THAT, people, is what a whole crew of devotees has done. I won't participate in that approach to dealing with ending this case. Too many people know I speak the truth, but they all think they have something to fear from agreeing with anything. If you want to solve your quest, verify my statements. If not, I understand the game. Play on, but I am on the record NOW with a Wiki-leaks Special Report. Verification will be presented soon enough, first hand, I guarantee it. Case Exposed. EOM

Caretaker Al writes: "Verify what I have said."

Al, If you cannot verify your own statements why should anyone else try? Just because you are delusional doesn't mean that other people have to join in your fantasies.

Robert Nicholson

[Orange1 0]

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I once told my parents about a memory I had of my aunt's lounge (sitting room). I described it pretty well, to be told they had moved out of that apartment when I was 6 months old. Other than that however I cannot recall much before I was probably about 3 years old. Do those books mention any such incidents, I guess it might be called a single memory?

I think that these are sometimes false recall where you have seen pictures/heard discussions and your mind fills in the gaps

I was about 5 at the time I asked them about it. There was one photo of it in our house - with me as a baby on the carpet and with only the carpet and part of a coffee table and part of a chair in the background - but it was in black and white and I described both colours and things that were not visible in the picture, accurately. I can't imagine that something as banal as the decor of a furnished rental aprtment sitting room would have been a subject for much conversation some years later.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JamieCooper 0]

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I once told my parents about a memory I had of my aunt's lounge (sitting room). I described it pretty well, to be told they had moved out of that apartment when I was 6 months old. Other than that however I cannot recall much before I was probably about 3 years old. Do those books mention any such incidents, I guess it might be called a single memory?

I think that these are sometimes false recall where you have seen pictures/heard discussions and your mind fills in the gaps

I was about 5 at the time I asked them about it. There was one photo of it in our house - with me as a baby on the carpet and with only the carpet and part of a coffee table and part of a chair in the background - but it was in black and white and I described both colours and things that were not visible in the picture, accurately. I can't imagine that something as banal as the decor of a furnished rental aprtment sitting room would have been a subject for much conversation some years later.

my pre-age one memories are different.
theres kind of a pinkish haze to them.
I'm somewhere where its dark and light at the same time then it's like I switch places and I'm looking out the window of a car while Delta dawn plays on the radio. the sun is darting and sort of playing hide and seek with me behind the leaves of a tree, it makes me smile, then my mother says something, I notice the roof of the car looks tan with lots of little holes, and it had a chrome speaker between the back seats with a impala logo. I can see it from a mirror on the sun visor. I think my mother adjusted to to block the sun.
later my mother explained that she sold that car before my first birthday.

then I have another memory of waking up in the car at night. theres a chain link fence and a series of big lights behind it. much brighter than street lights. we drive on a bridge over a waterfall. when I asked my mother about it in my 20's, she said it was power plant where we met my father to pick him up.

but the strange thing is both of these memories have the same pinkish almost Orange overcast.
maybe these kind of memories are where the term "rose colored glasses" comes from?

now here is the funny part. after posting this I googled the song title "Delta Dawn".
according to Wikipedia,
The first recording of "Delta Dawn" was made by the song's composer Alex Harvey for his eponymous album released in November 1971.
I would have been a few months over a year old then.
lol I couldn't have been less than a year old.
I was born in 1970.
coincidence that the song in the memory is from November of 1971?
WTF?

[hangdiver 1]

Orange1 you are a skydiver so you already take the road less traveled. There are always exceptions to the rule.
If I was to tell anyone about the things I remember as an infant and possibly before, I would have been in the loony bin a long time ago.
Not that that's a bad thing...
I just have some, let's say interesting, memories that I've had since my earliest awareness in this life. I have always questioned as to whether these memories are real or false recall. My logical mind says false recall but the whimsical mind wants it to be real.
This is when I subscribe to Occum's razor.
As I age I realize what strange creatures humans are and how faulty our memories can be.
With that being said, I need to see hard evidence to back up any claims someone spouts about remembering an event.
Everyone obviously has a unique perspective to any event they witnessed and someone was certainly the Dan Cooper character.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[hangdiver 1]

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Dredging brought up some of the money, and the remainder, or much of it, still lies on the bottom of the Columbia.

Or the possibility could be that the three bundles are the only ones that survived the dredging and the rest have been ground to smithereens.

"Mans got to know his limitations"
Harry Callahan

[georger 197]

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Georger,

Put all this Cooper stuff aside and talk serious stuff for a moment. BASKETBALL!
Who is going to win the Missouri Valley Conference this year, Your Northern Iowa boys, or my Indiana State Sycamores? HA! Do we need to make a bet on it?

Welcome back my friend!

or, Syracuse-Kansas last night and the infamous
Excessive Celebration call on Hilburn by Big Ten
ref Richard Head. It changed the whole course
of the game. Ive never seen anything like that
before ... holy tomatoes@!

BTW: Big Congrats to the Huskies last night.
But of course I have ulterior motives Get ready Nebraska. We are coming soon to a
theatre near you!