DB Cooper

[georger 197]

4 minutes ago, Slim King said:

It's nice to know who packs your parachute..... Cossey was also friends with the get away driver. Just coincidence right?

Yepper - ten bags full of coincidience! Cossey was also friends with bears, geese, dogs, cats, tree mice,k and polar bears! 

Keep workin them angles Sim King .......... Have you seen Elvis lately and Roy Rogers ?  How is Tonto ?  

Edited October 11, 2023 by georger

[olemisscub 466]

3 hours ago, Slim King said:

You forget... I'm from there. My cousin lived in their neighborhood. Cossey is murdered as the Walt Reca/Peca story is emerging. Follow the blood trail with the money.

Some of you people place way, way too much significance on this case and make it a bigger deal than it was. No one was getting murdered over a stupid 40 year old unsolved hijacking. Cooper heist was a clever bank robbery where the perp got away, nothing more. 

[olemisscub 466]

10 minutes ago, Slim King said:

How do you know why Cossey was murdered? Were you there? How do you know who did or who did not kill Cossey? Thats some pretty important inside information... Maybe you should contact the police in this unsolved case? The Cossey family would love to see your evidence.

You’re the one insinuating he was murdered because of a connection to the hijacking

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by olemisscub

[olemisscub 466]

10 hours ago, Slim King said:

Cossey is murdered but the FBI fails to find a single suspect. ANOTHER unsolved crime. These guys were all friends.

Why would the FBI have investigated his murder? 

[SeventyWonderful 18]

On 10/10/2023 at 11:41 PM, FLYJACK said:

You may be reading too much into Tina's account, but here is a link to scans of an extensive library of historical department store catalogs.. maybe Cooper bought his suit or shoes from a major department store..

https://christmas.musetechnical.com

That is a great online resource for vintage catalogues (and for the way we were).  I've already gone through those and hadn't turned up anything, but it's really fun to browse through them.

Originally I was curious to see what Cooper's suit looked like when I started looking last year. It was truly surprising that brown suits with black pinstriping was apparently uncommon.   My next step is to look through the textile industry journals as time allows and see if anything interesting turns up.

 

[SeventyWonderful 18]

The Nortern Kittitas County Tribune microfilm arrived.  There is nothing about a plane crash or the hijacking for November to December 1971.

[olemisscub 466]

36 minutes ago, SeventyWonderful said:

The Nortern Kittitas County Tribune microfilm arrived.  There is nothing about a plane crash or the hijacking for November to December 1971.

Thank you for checking dude. 

[Chaucer 104]

Going to change the subject completely for a minute.

Alcohol.

Cooper ordered one bourbon and 7 Up at the beginning of the flight to Seattle, spilled it, and did not order another. 

A drink menu from around 1959 has circulated listing the various bourbons available en route. However, by 1970, as near as I can tell,  NWA had ceased listing brands and had resorted to listing styles such as Canadian, rye, bourbon, etc. 

So, that said, in the 1970s, one of the most popular drink orders was a "7&7" which was Seagram;'s Crown 7 whisky and 7 Up  soda. Catchy name, and  that meant catchy marketing. Today, if you order a 7&7 you're probably in your 70s. 

Also, today, Crown 7 is considered a "cheap booze". It's a dive bar whisky intended for bar flies and homeless people. 

Bourbon was, and still is, a more sophisticated choice for drinkers. While there are varying tiers of bourbon - some expensive and some not - by and large, bourbon is a better whisky than Seagram's 7. 

Why then, would Cooper choose a bourbon over the ubiquitous Seagram's 7? Was Crown 7 not available on board? Seems unlikely considering its popularity at the time. Perhaps Cooper chose bourbon to appear more sophisticated? To appear above his station in life? 

If that's the case, then why mix it with a cheap soda like 7 Up? Whisky snobs will tell you that bourbon is sweet enough to be indulged in neat or over ice. They eschew using bourbon as a mixer in a high ball. 

To me, this indicates that Cooper was trying to appear like a sophisticated, well-to-do man with high brow drink choices, but was still a blue collar or middle class guy who enjoyed his 7&7s and Schlitz beer. This was his one chance to show off, yet he failed by mixing a good liquor with a crummy soda. 

Also, bourbon is made from corn mash. This makes it sweeter than rye whisky which is made from rye wheat, or scotch which is made from barley. Thus, mixing a sweet whisky with a sweet soda might indicate that Cooper had a bit of a sweet tooth. 

Lastly, the fact that Cooper ordered just one drink and did not order any after he spilled his first, indicates that Cooper was not a heavy drinker. His ordering the drink was probably more for show than to actually get intoxicated. 

So, in the end, Cooper's order of a bourbon and 7 Up demonstrates an inexperienced drinker trying to appear sophisticated and upper class while revealing his true blue collar or lower middle class social standing. It might also demonstrate Cooper's sweet tooth. 

This is all elaborate conjecture based on a very small detail of the case, but I got tired of hearing people argue about people who obviously aren't DB Cooper.

 

[SeventyWonderful 18]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:57 PM, olemisscub said:

Thank you for checking dude. 

Lol, I'm actually a lady (dudette?) but you're welcome.

Seriously, researching is always fun and I'm happy to help.

[SeventyWonderful 18]

22 hours ago, Slim King said:

Are you saying they sent you microfilm?

Yep, I'm a librarian and requested the microfilm via interlibrary loan.

[SeventyWonderful 18]

1 hour ago, Chaucer said:

Lastly, the fact that Cooper ordered just one drink and did not order any after he spilled his first, indicates that Cooper was not a heavy drinker. His ordering the drink was probably more for show than to actually get intoxicated. 

So, in the end, Cooper's order of a bourbon and 7 Up demonstrates an inexperienced drinker trying to appear sophisticated and upper class while revealing his true blue collar or lower middle class social standing. It might also demonstrate Cooper's sweet tooth. 

This is all elaborate conjecture based on a very small detail of the case, but I got tired of hearing people argue about people who obviously aren't DB Cooper.

 

Oooh this is great!   What a truly compelling and thought provoking post.  

This most definitely brings to mind the final scene from the Thomas Crown Affair, because you just know that's what he was evoking.

I'm in a bit of a hurry now, so more later, but you've provided much food (and drink) for thought. Cool.

Edited October 14, 2023 by SeventyWonderful

[Andrade1812 51]

There was a Cooper documentary that said Larry Carr found a consumer profile of Bourbon and 7up drinkers. At the time I tried to find that profile but I've never been able to find it or anything similar, nor have I seen it in the FBI files. Perhaps we should ask Larry about it on FB.

[Chaucer 104]

1 hour ago, Andrade1812 said:

There was a Cooper documentary that said Larry Carr found a consumer profile of Bourbon and 7up drinkers. At the time I tried to find that profile but I've never been able to find it or anything similar, nor have I seen it in the FBI files. Perhaps we should ask Larry about it on FB.

Which doc?

[JAGdb 71]

10 hours ago, Chaucer said:

Going to change the subject completely for a minute.

Alcohol.

Cooper ordered one bourbon and 7 Up at the beginning of the flight to Seattle, spilled it, and did not order another. 

A drink menu from around 1959 has circulated listing the various bourbons available en route. However, by 1970, as near as I can tell,  NWA had ceased listing brands and had resorted to listing styles such as Canadian, rye, bourbon, etc. 

So, that said, in the 1970s, one of the most popular drink orders was a "7&7" which was Seagram;'s Crown 7 whisky and 7 Up  soda. Catchy name, and  that meant catchy marketing. Today, if you order a 7&7 you're probably in your 70s. 

Also, today, Crown 7 is considered a "cheap booze". It's a dive bar whisky intended for bar flies and homeless people. 

Bourbon was, and still is, a more sophisticated choice for drinkers. While there are varying tiers of bourbon - some expensive and some not - by and large, bourbon is a better whisky than Seagram's 7. 

Why then, would Cooper choose a bourbon over the ubiquitous Seagram's 7? Was Crown 7 not available on board? Seems unlikely considering its popularity at the time. Perhaps Cooper chose bourbon to appear more sophisticated? To appear above his station in life? 

If that's the case, then why mix it with a cheap soda like 7 Up? Whisky snobs will tell you that bourbon is sweet enough to be indulged in neat or over ice. They eschew using bourbon as a mixer in a high ball. 

To me, this indicates that Cooper was trying to appear like a sophisticated, well-to-do man with high brow drink choices, but was still a blue collar or middle class guy who enjoyed his 7&7s and Schlitz beer. This was his one chance to show off, yet he failed by mixing a good liquor with a crummy soda. 

Also, bourbon is made from corn mash. This makes it sweeter than rye whisky which is made from rye wheat, or scotch which is made from barley. Thus, mixing a sweet whisky with a sweet soda might indicate that Cooper had a bit of a sweet tooth. 

Lastly, the fact that Cooper ordered just one drink and did not order any after he spilled his first, indicates that Cooper was not a heavy drinker. His ordering the drink was probably more for show than to actually get intoxicated. 

So, in the end, Cooper's order of a bourbon and 7 Up demonstrates an inexperienced drinker trying to appear sophisticated and upper class while revealing his true blue collar or lower middle class social standing. It might also demonstrate Cooper's sweet tooth. 

This is all elaborate conjecture based on a very small detail of the case, but I got tired of hearing people argue about people who obviously aren't DB Cooper.

 

Another angle on this to consider.  As I understand it, Bourbon was actually falling in popularity during the 60s. It was considered a more traditional, old guard choice. It was your father or grand father's drink, as opposed to Vodka, which was considered the trendier spirit of choice and giving the Bourbon and Whiskey industry a run for their money. 

So, if Cooper did in fact order a "Bourbon", it may very well be in line with the age profile of 45 to 55 and with someone who was more "old school" as opposed to a counter culture type, so to speak.  In addition, Bourbon is an American drink, so perhaps it could also be inferred that so was Cooper as opposed to being Canadian. This kind of stuff is always a little tricky, of course there are no absolutes and there are always exceptions to the rule, but it's fair game for a profile building exercise. 

I thought that someone posted the drink menu from NWA a few years back...not sure if it was here or on Shutter's site.

[Andrade1812 51]

9 hours ago, Chaucer said:

Which doc?

The NatGeo doc "the skyjacker that got away"

I did find internal marketing and sales reports for Raliegh Cigarettes, but no customer profiles.

[FLYJACK 654]

Early 70’s Bourbon top hard liquor.. replaced at #1 by Vodka in 1974..

So, the choice of Bourbon tells us nothing.

 

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/254107297/

MUNCIE EVENING PRESS, THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 1974 Vodka replaces bourbon as nation's favorite booze; lightness, mixability with flavors credited By RICHARD HUGHES NEW YORK (UPI) - Belly up to the bar, boys, and have a belt of vodka and orange juice. Vodka and orange juice? 'Fraid so. Vodka has just replaced bourbon as the nation's favorite hard alcoholic drink.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by FLYJACK

[Chaucer 104]

The choice of bourbon with 7 Up is interesting considering the most popular highball at the time was 7&7. Typically if you mixed a liquor with 7 Up, it was with Seagram's Crown 7. Bourbon is a sweeter booze that doesn't necessarily require a mixer where a harsher Crown 7 does. 

[FLYJACK 654]

Bourbon and Sprite is a common highball.. 7up is the replacement when Sprite isn't offered.

or maybe he asked for soda but they didn't have soda??

Maybe if we knew what Cooper had actually said to Flo...

Edited October 15, 2023 by FLYJACK

[georger 197]

2 hours ago, FLYJACK said:

Bourbon and Sprite is a common highball.. 7up is the replacement when Sprite isn't offered.

or maybe he asked for soda but they didn't have soda??

Maybe if we knew what Cooper had actually said to Flo...

If anyone thinks they are going to get a social-psychological profile of Cooper based only on the drink he ordered at the start of his tenure aboard 305 - guess again.

[The Cooper Vortex 80]

New episode out now! DB Cooper Didn't Get What He Wanted with Jude Morrow. Enjoy!

 

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-didn-t-get-what-he-asked-for-jude-morrow/

[olemisscub 466]

47 minutes ago, The Cooper Vortex said:

New episode out now! DB Cooper Didn't Get What He Wanted with Jude Morrow. Enjoy!

 

https://thecoopervortex.podbean.com/e/db-cooper-didn-t-get-what-he-asked-for-jude-morrow/

Jude has an overall negative take on Cooper, which I’d say is somewhat refreshing to hear. Kinda gets old hearing the same old takes on the hijacking. 

Also great listening to Cooper discussed through a Northern Irish brogue.  

He gets a few facts wrong but overall his knowledge is very good for being so new to the case.

Edited October 16, 2023 by olemisscub

[CooperNWO305 146]

Has anyone confirmed that the break in was actually the Heisson store?  I've been looking at the FBI flight path, and for a while I've thought the jump spot was between Battleground and Orchards, but I'm thinking now instead of Battleground being the far northern point, I'm thinking Battleground town center is the southern point, with the northern point being the north part of Battleground, into Cherry Grove not too far from the Daybreak Regional Park, which is right on the Lewis River. I did some reading on the diatoms, and emailed with Tom, and it sounds to me like the diatoms could have come from another river as well as the Columbia.  So I'm thinking that if a river flows into the Columbia, that spot would have diatoms from both rivers, but if that river flowed into the Columbia north of Tena Bar, then the diatoms might be different, or not.  In summary, I'm thinking the LZ was a bit north of what I've thought, but it is a stretch to think the money went into the Lewis River there and flowed into the Columbia 9 miles north of Tena Bar, and ended up at Tena Bar.  It would have taken a ship getting the money bag hooked on its propellor to bring it down to Tena Bar. I could see movement of a few miles max, but 9 miles not so much.

[olemisscub 466]

2 minutes ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Has anyone confirmed that the break in was actually the Heisson store?  

Nothing confirmed. I feel like Nicky may have spoken to the original owners or their children or something and they seemingly confirmed that it happened, I could be mistaken. But it never appeared in any papers or anything. 

[olemisscub 466]

If we were still in the pre-vault Dark Ages back when we were grasping for every little straw, this tidbit from 1965 about passenger William Murphy could have caused a rabbit hole to form. 

[FLYJACK 654]

1 hour ago, CooperNWO305 said:

Has anyone confirmed that the break in was actually the Heisson store?  I've been looking at the FBI flight path, and for a while I've thought the jump spot was between Battleground and Orchards, but I'm thinking now instead of Battleground being the far northern point, I'm thinking Battleground town center is the southern point, with the northern point being the north part of Battleground, into Cherry Grove not too far from the Daybreak Regional Park, which is right on the Lewis River. I did some reading on the diatoms, and emailed with Tom, and it sounds to me like the diatoms could have come from another river as well as the Columbia.  So I'm thinking that if a river flows into the Columbia, that spot would have diatoms from both rivers, but if that river flowed into the Columbia north of Tena Bar, then the diatoms might be different, or not.  In summary, I'm thinking the LZ was a bit north of what I've thought, but it is a stretch to think the money went into the Lewis River there and flowed into the Columbia 9 miles north of Tena Bar, and ended up at Tena Bar.  It would have taken a ship getting the money bag hooked on its propellor to bring it down to Tena Bar. I could see movement of a few miles max, but 9 miles not so much.

Heisson Store was never confirmed,, it is probably 90%... I looked for other general stores in that area in that era, 10 miles South of the Dam, and didn't find any close.

The South Fork Lewis is the river near Heisson that flows to the Columbia.

If a high water event caused the money to flow to the Columbia it would end up at the mouth of the Lewis River downstream of TBAR...

There were clamshell dredge operations in the Columbia that barged material upstream and dumped above TBAR..

IMO, this is a long shot. It would be hard to imagine a rubber banded bundle of 3-5 packets remaining together for that journey.