quade 3 #29451 December 30, 2011 Quote He displayed his ability with the ropes and knots many times during our 17 yrs marriage. Sadly, there is no eraser for a mental image. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #29452 December 30, 2011 QuoteI'm saying that back in the 70's, when the crime took place the skydiving culture was VERY different than it is today...that Mr. Cooper having a few before the jump doesn't necessarily mean anything regarding a possible clue as to his experience level. It was insane back in the day. JUI was common. Alcohol, LSD, pot, coke, speed etc. I was on DC3 loads with jumpers snorting coke during the climb. There were DZs with bars. They did business all day long. Having a couple of beers with a burger and them resuming jumping was no big deal. I was not anti drug at all, but I thought it was nuts to jump loaded. I started jumping at 18. I did a lot of stupid things when I was young but JUI wasn't one of them. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #29453 December 30, 2011 Quote Quote He displayed his ability with the ropes and knots many times during our 17 yrs marriage. Sadly, there is no eraser for a mental image. I would do one of those things that starrts with a B..... and ends with an A.... but hell... I never know when Bill will ban me for somethin else anymore Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryThomas 0 #29454 December 30, 2011 Jo: Duane could have never survived this jump. His physcical problems would have prevented it. According to his best friend he never would have attempted to hijack any thing. Not even a ride on a lightning bug. You know this and always have. Still its funny watching you try to add another twist to your fictional story . By the time your done with this portion, Duane could have written the dictionary on Knots and invented the prusik Knot. Now this Knott is well known to many mountain climbers and navy personell, if Duane was as good with knots as you say he was , What was the best use for this knot on a glscier. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #29455 December 30, 2011 Wiki shows, when Cooper did the HiJacking, from 2:50 PM to 8:13 PM one Bourbon and Soda was ordered. It does not say he had any more or if he even finished that one drink. If that is accurate, the drinks are a none factor. I guess that makes him inexperienced for the times then, aye Twardo? Quote Yeah...just another freakin' Wuffo! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29456 December 30, 2011 QuoteQuote How many time do I have to post the picture of the tie Duane wore the yr before the crime. Note the tie clip even though it is a fuzzy old polaroid pic versus the Tie Tac the FBI had in their possession. Note the clip is placed from the left in both pictures - Cooper was left handed. Doesn't make any difference, Jo. The tie clip was added to the evidence box when the 'in charge' FBI agent swapped out the Brigham Young gold medallion with McCoy's initials on it. You have to go back to the initial agent's data to see the actual original truthful information. I think Bernie stated it correctly. You are stuck on too much disinformation. There was a serious personal problem between Mac and Duane having to do with wives, and Mac's pin was a souvenior item of Duane's activity. He intended to involve Mac in his jump. I got this directly from Duane, and Mac confirmed it. Mac got the pin back by swapping the tie clip. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #29457 December 30, 2011 QuoteJo: Duane could have never survived this jump. His physcical problems would have prevented it. According to his best friend he never would have attempted to hijack any thing. Not even a ride on a lightning bug. You know this and always have. Still its funny watching you try to add another twist to your fictional story . By the time your done with this portion, Duane could have written the dictionary on Knots and invented the prusik Knot. Now this Knott is well known to many mountain climbers and navy personell, if Duane was as good with knots as you say he was , What was the best use for this knot on a glscier. Jerry Duane knew knots. Also related, he always carried a pocket knife in his pants pocket, and often would steal Kool-aide packets, preferably lime but anything was ok, and keep it in his pocket to lick from his fingers. Jerry, you are stuck on minutia again. I can out-minutia you with what REALLY was. The difference is my KNOWING vs. your GUESSING. Ask your friend to tell you the truth and if he does, you will see what we are telling you is fact. You have no basis to counter what Jo says all the time. Just once in a while. (:#)^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites matthewcline 0 #29458 December 30, 2011 Quote Mat What years did you instruct there. Gulkana Glacier. Black Rapids, Fire tire hill. Donellys Dome.Ring a Bell . Jerry I didn't Instruct, I said "Grad". I.E. Graduate of the NWTC BMMC and MLC's Summer and Winter (Four phases) and IWRC (only one a year is run as you know and it is for SOF and Cord Level Recon assets) makes five phases, although the IWRC is not needed for the identifier. But as you know, once an NCO in the Military you are never NOT and "Instructor".MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #29459 December 30, 2011 QuoteJo: Duane could have never survived this jump. His physical problems would have prevented it. According to his best friend he never would have attempted to hijack any thing. Not even a ride on a lightning bug. You know this and always have. Still its funny watching you try to add another twist to your fictional story . By the time your done with this portion, Duane could have written the dictionary on Knots and invented the prusik Knot. Now this Knott is well known to many mountain climbers and navy personell, if Duane was as good with knots as you say he was , What was the best use for this knot on a glscier. Jerry JERRY - YOU INSIST ON YOUR CLAIMS ABOUT THE HEALTH OF DUANE WEBER in 1973. YOU HAVE NO DOCUMENTATION OF DUANE'S HEALTH. ATHLETES HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH POLYCYSTIC KIDNEY DISEASE IN ITA EARLY STAGES AND CONTINUED TO PLAY AND LIVE A FULL LIFE. WEBER DID NOT NEED DIALYSIS UNTIL 1990 - 19 YRS LATER. SO TAKE YOUR "physical problem" OUT OF THE EQUATION! Also the friend - (AS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE)....Did not know Duane until 1973 and NEVER TOLD YOU DUANE WAS NOT PHYSICALLY ABLE TO DO THE JUMP. If Duane had any impairments when the friend first met him - it could have been an injury caused by the jump, but this friend has noted no impairment of Duane's physical condition to me nor to the FBI if they even bothered to contact him. Using your own words "you know this and always have". You know you are the liar in this situtuation. If you persist in this - you are going to look like a fool and the liar you have maintain that I am. Perhaps a letter from this friend that can be published anomously will suffice. This man has chose to stay out of this. IT MIGHT INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT WEBER AND THIS FRIEND REMAINED FRIENDS AND HAVE REMAINED FRIENDS WITH ME SINCE HIS DEATH. DUANE AND I ATTENDED HIS WEDDING IN THE EARLY 80'S. DUANE AND I VISITED HIS HOME SEVERAL TIMES DURING OUR 17 YR MARRIAGE. DUANE AND THE FRIEND SPOKE ON THE PHONE MANY TIME OVER THOSE 17 YRS. What is a glscier knot? I never knew the name of the knots. You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD FEET.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #29460 December 30, 2011 Jo wrote Quote You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD Jo, This is really over the top. Duane sleep talks about cold feet and you see that as evidence that he participated in Fulton Hook retrievals. My wife mutters about cold feet once in a while. Ocean tells me it has a more likely connection to poor peripheral circulation than Herc Fulton Hook ops. BTW Fulton Hook hardware was all sewn nylon line and webbing and metal to metal fasteners. No hand tied knots. There were early problems with fastening the line securely to the C 130 but hand tied knots were not the problem. Project Cold Feet: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #29461 December 30, 2011 Blevins wroteQuoteI have no problems with hearing out folks who claim this or that regarding the hijacking. This includes Jo Weber, and to a very smaller degree, (hmmm) Bob Knoss, even though officially I belong to the Bob Knoss Ignore Club. Knoss did make a good point in saying that NOBODY has ever died jumping out of a 727. I think he is correct. Cooper is an open question though. Pulling the ripcord on a military bailout rig even in the middle of a violent tumble and spin will give you a good round canopy 99.9% of the time. The issue is panic. A panicked jumper often can't do a pull on a clear warm sunny day. Highly experienced jumpers with no AADs have gone is as no pulls frantically pulling on webbing rather than the ripcord handle all the way to impact. We had a guy go in at Byron a few months ago as a no pull. No AAD, active jumper for many years. He had arthritis and experienced trouble deploying the main pilot chute. He apparently fought it all the way down. He went in with nothing pulled. He was doing RW with 3 others but nobody saw him go in. It was only noticed when his family called saying he never came home. His car was still at the DZ. A search the next day found his body in a field adjacent to the runway. Marla's silence is deafening. What's up with that? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #29462 December 30, 2011 almost seems as if today's FBI could really careless about the DB Cooper case? seems they would of figured Marla out rather quickly?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #29463 December 31, 2011 I agree with that but it still bothers me that they would allow someone like Marla to continue with her story while the investigation is going on, maybe they should do as the FBI does themselves and not supply information until the investigation is over, in other words put a gag order on the people making these confessions until some valid information is confirmed."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MarkBennett 5 #29464 December 31, 2011 I can think of some other reasons why the FBI is giving Robert not much information. When Larry Carr said more than he should have, he was reassigned. Don't embarrass the bureau! If agent Eng told Marla he was confident L.D. Cooper was the hijacker and was going to close the case (and whether you agree with Marla or not, I've found her to be forthright about answering questions even those about the skeletons this board dug out of her closet). When Marla repeated it -- THAT was embarrassing to the bureau. So, they're not going to give out much information. One more comment, which relates to Marla's story with the FBI but would apply to anyone talking to them. The FBI is still withholding some information like they always do to weed out false stories. For Marla to have made up a story, she would have had to avoid conflicting with both the public and non-public information. That would be very difficult. She must have matched some non-public information for agent Eng to say what he said. That would have been interesting to hear about. So, like 377 suggested, I hope she's reading and will post once in awhile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #29465 December 31, 2011 Quote Jo wrote Quote You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD Jo, This is really over the top. Duane sleep talks about cold feet and you see that as evidence that he participated in Fulton Hook retrievals. My wife mutters about cold feet once in a while. Ocean tells me it has a more likely connection to poor peripheral circulation than Herc Fulton Hook ops. BTW Fulton Hook hardware was all sewn nylon line and webbing and metal to metal fasteners. No hand tied knots. There were early problems with fastening the line securely to the C 130 but hand tied knots were not the problem. Project Cold Feet: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 377 It was not Cold Feet from the weather or circulation and the circumstances of this was NOT a dream...he was wide awake. I didn't know what he was talking about. What he did tell me at another time - was specific. I have not gone to the site you sent, yet. I am familiar with the Fulton Hook, but did NOT remember that was the name of it. At one time I did research this because of something else Duane told me regarding the developement stage of the Hook and it was first tested in a desert. Now you guys can think what you like - but if the files are open on the developement of the Fulton Hook, you will find I am probably right. I have NO idea if knots had anything to do with the Hook, but for some reason I want to tie the 2 things together. It had something to do with a mistake made by someone. Remember Duane was fascinated by Planes - he could ID them from a distance. He wanted to be a pilot but he was far sighted. He enlisted in the Navy and screwed up and then enlisted in the Army until they found he had a bad conduct discharge from the Navy. This was a guy who WANTED to be a part of the efforts - he did NOT run from them. After the Bad Conduct Discharge and then the Undesirable (note Undesirable and the close date were NOT on the original papers I got for the US Army Records), Duane was not able to find work other than picking apples. This did NOT happen until 2001 or 2000 - but, after I confronted the FBI that DUANE was in the ARMY and I had a government form that stated this...the form I had DID NOT state the discharge date or the reason. It would be several months later when I was going public that the discharge date and reason was stated and sent to me. I had to explain this to an FBI agent that Duane WAS in the Army (remember the FBI agent told me the number belonged to WAVY GREEN and not Duane Weber). I would have go back in my files to see if the agent finally sent the other Army file to me or if I reapplied to the Gov and got the OTHER document. It is important to NOTE that when I applied for the documents early on - the discharge date and reason was OPEN...blank! Does NOT this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone? I have the actual documents to prove this actually happened.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #29466 December 31, 2011 well if there is any validation to this story it blows everyone's theories right out of the water being that he survived the jump!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #29467 December 31, 2011 Quote Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 377 If we are going to belittle others positions, let's be correct, 377. The Operation was an FAA project executed by pilots. The FBI agents involved were PILOTS, the Army guys were PILOTS, the co-pilot was a PILOT. Nixon was a PILOT, the new head of the FAA was a PILOT. Hemmelsbach, O'Hara, Happala, McCoy, all of them were PILOTS. Any CIA guys that may have been involved were most likely PILOTS first. Duane and I were the NOT pilots. We were induced labor. As for Blevins. His stories are intentional fabrications initiated by the crew. The whole Christensen thing was fabricated by the 'Cooper Crew' to water down the obvious. It is his job to discount anything I may say. You can totally ignor anything Blevins says as pure bunk intended to cover up the truth. "There are a lot of very important people that have been involved here, pillars in our communities, that are at risk, should the truth be known." I'm sure you all have heard that warning. Keep your information curtailed to the mundane. If the truth is told, cover it up with immediate loud countering response. The people who KNOW first hand what I know are subject to arrest if they confirm my claims. They are constantly afraid of phone taps, being watched, and being investigated. They refuse to talk to good reporters or authors for fear of being trapped. I have been threatened to keep my mouth shut more than a couple times. McCoy said I should speak up. So I am. I expect some of you to fight back with everything you have. I just want the truth recorded. When Rataczak releases his book, you can compare notes. Apologies will be accepted after 6 PM, Monday thru Friday, except on Holidays. Time exposes all conspiracies when this many people know the facts. I can wait. Rattle on, Dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #29468 December 31, 2011 Quote For either Weber's or Knoss' claims to be taken seriously, at least one or two additional people who are willing to be quoted must be provided. IMHO second-hand testimony is useless, especially if this testimony comes from people who are no longer living, or who have not gone on the record while they were alive. It's all 'he said, she said' stuff unless identity is established. Please do NOT classify me, Jo Weber with Knoss even though he claims Weber was Cooper. I have already stated many times I could never verify anything he said and why I do NOT want to be connected to the man. As for the things Duane Weber told me - some I was able to verify, but the FBI did NOT go back and speak with the individuals again and do it the right way. Most are now deceased and I could NOT MAKE the FBI go interview these people or assure them of their privacy and assure them they could not be prosecuted and that no one would shame or shun a relative. Duane came from a well to do upscale family and he was disowned by the family. They washed their hands of him. I tried to identify the people - but remember I worked within the confines of the FBI for almost 5 yrs. Not in the public media trying to convince them Duane was Cooper as you have done since the beginning and as Marla had done. When Duane introduced me to others they were as secretive as he was. Ed Huran - who didn't want his picture made until Duane assured him it was only for our personal album. The 3 individuals I met in CO. --- they do not seem to exist. After finding out about Jefferson I had to assume they had something to do with his criminal background,.but that has NOT proven out. Paperlegs - How and why was did he know Paperlegs and why was Duane so informed in regards to Intermountain Communications. Why did Duane go to Landon in 1979 or 1980 to see Paperlegs. Quote In the case of Weber and her husband, it is a simpler matter. She needs a couple of people who will verify at least the basic portions of her story. I have already addressed your issues long long ago and do NOT need to repeat them - at least I wasn't out there trying to SELL a story. Quote Or someone from the hospital staff where Duane spent his last days? Exactly what do YOU seem to hint these hospital official witnessed. Remember that Duane specifically asked me if anyone was in the Room prior to talking to me about what he told me. Your claims are those of a BOOK writer who stands to benefit financially. At least the FBI looked at Weber and they did NOT even look at your suspect. I have publically stated I did NOT believe Knoss and was not able to verify the things he told me....and the reasons they were NOT worth verifying. I know where he started with his story and how he got there. If he actually knew Duane and his wife of the day - that would be a miracle in itself. You did NOT know KC - and your research - using your own words: IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 21 #29469 December 31, 2011 Bob Knoss wroteQuote Nixon was a PILOT Really? Proof? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #29470 December 31, 2011 Quotewell if there is any validation to this story it blows everyone's theories right out of the water being that he survived the jump! Let me ask a few questions that help shed a little light on the obvious. 1. What do you think happened to the notes from Cooper to the Co-Pilot? Why did they not surface? Whose handwriting was on those notes. Why? Where are they now? I know. 2. Why was Tina ridiculed and laughed at? Why was she presented with an expensive bottle of French perfume? Who bought it? I know. 3. Why all the confusion about the parachutes? The SPECIAL chutes? I know. They were stored for the jump and the FBI was responsible to acquire them. They were incompetent. 4. Why did the co-pilot ask if everything back there was all right? I know. Signal to jump. 5. Why does Rohdes say the item found in the plane was McCoy's BYU pin and the FBI now say it was a tie clasp? I know. Mac got it back. 6. Why does Jo dis-own my comments? She told me. I know. 7. Why was the flight path actually flown parallel 15 miles west of the reported path? I know. Puts the jump in open dairy land. It is very obvious when you verify janet. 8. How did Cooper get to the right spot to jump? Not an accident. I know. 9. Why can't the FBI ever solve this case? I know. Carr said so, too. 10. Where is McCoy? I know. But I ain't sayin'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #29471 December 31, 2011 QuoteBob Knoss wroteQuote Nixon was a PILOT Really? Proof? 377 He said so. Proof has to be out there somewhere. After five years as a lawyer, Nixon joined the navy in August 1942. He was an air transport officer in the South Pacific and a legal officer stateside before his discharge in 1946 as a lieutenant commander. Read more: Richard Milhous Nixon — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760621.html#ixzz1i4nSbdVJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #29472 December 31, 2011 well to begin with my reply was in reference to the Marla case, your story from what I have been reading needs serious validation, if you are speaking of Janet who was a eyewitness to the jump,I find that very hard to believe, I live close to Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood airport and just went outside and all I can see from each plane that passes over is the Silhouette of each aircraft and there is no way I could tell if something was underneath the aircraft, the ceiling is unlimited right now. I live about 8 miles from the Airport so maybe you guys would know about how high the planes would be from that approach, I'm guessing under 2,000? now granted if I looked up and seen flares coming out of the Aircraft it would be a different story but still the plane was Supposably at 10,000 ft in a storm so I find this story hard to swallow?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Farflung 0 #29473 December 31, 2011 All this re-discussion about Kenny’s height and aliases and living witnesses all rang a primal bell in my recall. Hmmmm…… looks like one of the crewmembers is trying to confuse things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mrshutter45 21 #29474 December 31, 2011 I posted a similar thing several days ago asking if anyone tried to get his height that way plus showed a picture with several issues I had commenting on the left side of the photo. never got any response."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BobKnoss 0 #29475 December 31, 2011 Quote now granted if I looked up and seen flares coming out of the Aircraft it would be a different story but still the plane was Supposably at 10,000 ft in a storm so I find this story hard to swallow? 305 was flying at 10,000 ft and 'Janet' claimed she saw it at 45°. AA+BB=CC Twernt no 8 miles. More like 2.8 miles. I never met Janet, nor have I ever tried to validate her claims. What I can offer is the report I received from Sgt. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., repeating the story told by Janet having come into the office. In order to squalsh the story, Mac went to see Janet as an FBI agent, and told her to "keep (her) fu.king mouth shut!" Now, you ask Janet if that is not correct. He was dressed in a black suit and had a badge, representing himself as an agent. From McCoy to me. If her report didn't have validity and cause a problem with conflicting facts, Mac would not have had to scare her, would he????? The flight was 15 miles WEST of where it was reported to be in order to hide the real jump zone. Janet's story confirms this. Mac confirmed Janet. You may also safely conclude the ease with which this information passed to McCoy from the FBI office had some bearing on who was running what. My God, guys, this is not that hard to figure out. It is ABC's in second grade math. Add it up. 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BobKnoss 0 #29457 December 30, 2011 QuoteJo: Duane could have never survived this jump. His physcical problems would have prevented it. According to his best friend he never would have attempted to hijack any thing. Not even a ride on a lightning bug. You know this and always have. Still its funny watching you try to add another twist to your fictional story . By the time your done with this portion, Duane could have written the dictionary on Knots and invented the prusik Knot. Now this Knott is well known to many mountain climbers and navy personell, if Duane was as good with knots as you say he was , What was the best use for this knot on a glscier. Jerry Duane knew knots. Also related, he always carried a pocket knife in his pants pocket, and often would steal Kool-aide packets, preferably lime but anything was ok, and keep it in his pocket to lick from his fingers. Jerry, you are stuck on minutia again. I can out-minutia you with what REALLY was. The difference is my KNOWING vs. your GUESSING. Ask your friend to tell you the truth and if he does, you will see what we are telling you is fact. You have no basis to counter what Jo says all the time. Just once in a while. (:#)^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #29458 December 30, 2011 Quote Mat What years did you instruct there. Gulkana Glacier. Black Rapids, Fire tire hill. Donellys Dome.Ring a Bell . Jerry I didn't Instruct, I said "Grad". I.E. Graduate of the NWTC BMMC and MLC's Summer and Winter (Four phases) and IWRC (only one a year is run as you know and it is for SOF and Cord Level Recon assets) makes five phases, although the IWRC is not needed for the identifier. But as you know, once an NCO in the Military you are never NOT and "Instructor".MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #29459 December 30, 2011 QuoteJo: Duane could have never survived this jump. His physical problems would have prevented it. According to his best friend he never would have attempted to hijack any thing. Not even a ride on a lightning bug. You know this and always have. Still its funny watching you try to add another twist to your fictional story . By the time your done with this portion, Duane could have written the dictionary on Knots and invented the prusik Knot. Now this Knott is well known to many mountain climbers and navy personell, if Duane was as good with knots as you say he was , What was the best use for this knot on a glscier. Jerry JERRY - YOU INSIST ON YOUR CLAIMS ABOUT THE HEALTH OF DUANE WEBER in 1973. YOU HAVE NO DOCUMENTATION OF DUANE'S HEALTH. ATHLETES HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH POLYCYSTIC KIDNEY DISEASE IN ITA EARLY STAGES AND CONTINUED TO PLAY AND LIVE A FULL LIFE. WEBER DID NOT NEED DIALYSIS UNTIL 1990 - 19 YRS LATER. SO TAKE YOUR "physical problem" OUT OF THE EQUATION! Also the friend - (AS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED BEFORE)....Did not know Duane until 1973 and NEVER TOLD YOU DUANE WAS NOT PHYSICALLY ABLE TO DO THE JUMP. If Duane had any impairments when the friend first met him - it could have been an injury caused by the jump, but this friend has noted no impairment of Duane's physical condition to me nor to the FBI if they even bothered to contact him. Using your own words "you know this and always have". You know you are the liar in this situtuation. If you persist in this - you are going to look like a fool and the liar you have maintain that I am. Perhaps a letter from this friend that can be published anomously will suffice. This man has chose to stay out of this. IT MIGHT INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT WEBER AND THIS FRIEND REMAINED FRIENDS AND HAVE REMAINED FRIENDS WITH ME SINCE HIS DEATH. DUANE AND I ATTENDED HIS WEDDING IN THE EARLY 80'S. DUANE AND I VISITED HIS HOME SEVERAL TIMES DURING OUR 17 YR MARRIAGE. DUANE AND THE FRIEND SPOKE ON THE PHONE MANY TIME OVER THOSE 17 YRS. What is a glscier knot? I never knew the name of the knots. You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD FEET.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #29460 December 30, 2011 Jo wrote Quote You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD Jo, This is really over the top. Duane sleep talks about cold feet and you see that as evidence that he participated in Fulton Hook retrievals. My wife mutters about cold feet once in a while. Ocean tells me it has a more likely connection to poor peripheral circulation than Herc Fulton Hook ops. BTW Fulton Hook hardware was all sewn nylon line and webbing and metal to metal fasteners. No hand tied knots. There were early problems with fastening the line securely to the C 130 but hand tied knots were not the problem. Project Cold Feet: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #29461 December 30, 2011 Blevins wroteQuoteI have no problems with hearing out folks who claim this or that regarding the hijacking. This includes Jo Weber, and to a very smaller degree, (hmmm) Bob Knoss, even though officially I belong to the Bob Knoss Ignore Club. Knoss did make a good point in saying that NOBODY has ever died jumping out of a 727. I think he is correct. Cooper is an open question though. Pulling the ripcord on a military bailout rig even in the middle of a violent tumble and spin will give you a good round canopy 99.9% of the time. The issue is panic. A panicked jumper often can't do a pull on a clear warm sunny day. Highly experienced jumpers with no AADs have gone is as no pulls frantically pulling on webbing rather than the ripcord handle all the way to impact. We had a guy go in at Byron a few months ago as a no pull. No AAD, active jumper for many years. He had arthritis and experienced trouble deploying the main pilot chute. He apparently fought it all the way down. He went in with nothing pulled. He was doing RW with 3 others but nobody saw him go in. It was only noticed when his family called saying he never came home. His car was still at the DZ. A search the next day found his body in a field adjacent to the runway. Marla's silence is deafening. What's up with that? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29462 December 30, 2011 almost seems as if today's FBI could really careless about the DB Cooper case? seems they would of figured Marla out rather quickly?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29463 December 31, 2011 I agree with that but it still bothers me that they would allow someone like Marla to continue with her story while the investigation is going on, maybe they should do as the FBI does themselves and not supply information until the investigation is over, in other words put a gag order on the people making these confessions until some valid information is confirmed."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkBennett 5 #29464 December 31, 2011 I can think of some other reasons why the FBI is giving Robert not much information. When Larry Carr said more than he should have, he was reassigned. Don't embarrass the bureau! If agent Eng told Marla he was confident L.D. Cooper was the hijacker and was going to close the case (and whether you agree with Marla or not, I've found her to be forthright about answering questions even those about the skeletons this board dug out of her closet). When Marla repeated it -- THAT was embarrassing to the bureau. So, they're not going to give out much information. One more comment, which relates to Marla's story with the FBI but would apply to anyone talking to them. The FBI is still withholding some information like they always do to weed out false stories. For Marla to have made up a story, she would have had to avoid conflicting with both the public and non-public information. That would be very difficult. She must have matched some non-public information for agent Eng to say what he said. That would have been interesting to hear about. So, like 377 suggested, I hope she's reading and will post once in awhile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #29465 December 31, 2011 Quote Jo wrote Quote You do remember a story about a knot being made improperly when the "HOOK" was in the experiment stages ? Do you? Remember how they struggled to bring the man back into the plane? COLD FEET - remember those? Duane one time was sitting on the edge of the bed rambling about COLD FEET...at that time he was under the influence of "medication" but, I remember the story he told me about COLD Jo, This is really over the top. Duane sleep talks about cold feet and you see that as evidence that he participated in Fulton Hook retrievals. My wife mutters about cold feet once in a while. Ocean tells me it has a more likely connection to poor peripheral circulation than Herc Fulton Hook ops. BTW Fulton Hook hardware was all sewn nylon line and webbing and metal to metal fasteners. No hand tied knots. There were early problems with fastening the line securely to the C 130 but hand tied knots were not the problem. Project Cold Feet: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldfeet Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 377 It was not Cold Feet from the weather or circulation and the circumstances of this was NOT a dream...he was wide awake. I didn't know what he was talking about. What he did tell me at another time - was specific. I have not gone to the site you sent, yet. I am familiar with the Fulton Hook, but did NOT remember that was the name of it. At one time I did research this because of something else Duane told me regarding the developement stage of the Hook and it was first tested in a desert. Now you guys can think what you like - but if the files are open on the developement of the Fulton Hook, you will find I am probably right. I have NO idea if knots had anything to do with the Hook, but for some reason I want to tie the 2 things together. It had something to do with a mistake made by someone. Remember Duane was fascinated by Planes - he could ID them from a distance. He wanted to be a pilot but he was far sighted. He enlisted in the Navy and screwed up and then enlisted in the Army until they found he had a bad conduct discharge from the Navy. This was a guy who WANTED to be a part of the efforts - he did NOT run from them. After the Bad Conduct Discharge and then the Undesirable (note Undesirable and the close date were NOT on the original papers I got for the US Army Records), Duane was not able to find work other than picking apples. This did NOT happen until 2001 or 2000 - but, after I confronted the FBI that DUANE was in the ARMY and I had a government form that stated this...the form I had DID NOT state the discharge date or the reason. It would be several months later when I was going public that the discharge date and reason was stated and sent to me. I had to explain this to an FBI agent that Duane WAS in the Army (remember the FBI agent told me the number belonged to WAVY GREEN and not Duane Weber). I would have go back in my files to see if the agent finally sent the other Army file to me or if I reapplied to the Gov and got the OTHER document. It is important to NOTE that when I applied for the documents early on - the discharge date and reason was OPEN...blank! Does NOT this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone? I have the actual documents to prove this actually happened.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29466 December 31, 2011 well if there is any validation to this story it blows everyone's theories right out of the water being that he survived the jump!"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29467 December 31, 2011 Quote Are you even hinting that Duane was involved with this CIA op? If so, Duane Weber makes James Bond look like a wimp. 377 If we are going to belittle others positions, let's be correct, 377. The Operation was an FAA project executed by pilots. The FBI agents involved were PILOTS, the Army guys were PILOTS, the co-pilot was a PILOT. Nixon was a PILOT, the new head of the FAA was a PILOT. Hemmelsbach, O'Hara, Happala, McCoy, all of them were PILOTS. Any CIA guys that may have been involved were most likely PILOTS first. Duane and I were the NOT pilots. We were induced labor. As for Blevins. His stories are intentional fabrications initiated by the crew. The whole Christensen thing was fabricated by the 'Cooper Crew' to water down the obvious. It is his job to discount anything I may say. You can totally ignor anything Blevins says as pure bunk intended to cover up the truth. "There are a lot of very important people that have been involved here, pillars in our communities, that are at risk, should the truth be known." I'm sure you all have heard that warning. Keep your information curtailed to the mundane. If the truth is told, cover it up with immediate loud countering response. The people who KNOW first hand what I know are subject to arrest if they confirm my claims. They are constantly afraid of phone taps, being watched, and being investigated. They refuse to talk to good reporters or authors for fear of being trapped. I have been threatened to keep my mouth shut more than a couple times. McCoy said I should speak up. So I am. I expect some of you to fight back with everything you have. I just want the truth recorded. When Rataczak releases his book, you can compare notes. Apologies will be accepted after 6 PM, Monday thru Friday, except on Holidays. Time exposes all conspiracies when this many people know the facts. I can wait. Rattle on, Dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #29468 December 31, 2011 Quote For either Weber's or Knoss' claims to be taken seriously, at least one or two additional people who are willing to be quoted must be provided. IMHO second-hand testimony is useless, especially if this testimony comes from people who are no longer living, or who have not gone on the record while they were alive. It's all 'he said, she said' stuff unless identity is established. Please do NOT classify me, Jo Weber with Knoss even though he claims Weber was Cooper. I have already stated many times I could never verify anything he said and why I do NOT want to be connected to the man. As for the things Duane Weber told me - some I was able to verify, but the FBI did NOT go back and speak with the individuals again and do it the right way. Most are now deceased and I could NOT MAKE the FBI go interview these people or assure them of their privacy and assure them they could not be prosecuted and that no one would shame or shun a relative. Duane came from a well to do upscale family and he was disowned by the family. They washed their hands of him. I tried to identify the people - but remember I worked within the confines of the FBI for almost 5 yrs. Not in the public media trying to convince them Duane was Cooper as you have done since the beginning and as Marla had done. When Duane introduced me to others they were as secretive as he was. Ed Huran - who didn't want his picture made until Duane assured him it was only for our personal album. The 3 individuals I met in CO. --- they do not seem to exist. After finding out about Jefferson I had to assume they had something to do with his criminal background,.but that has NOT proven out. Paperlegs - How and why was did he know Paperlegs and why was Duane so informed in regards to Intermountain Communications. Why did Duane go to Landon in 1979 or 1980 to see Paperlegs. Quote In the case of Weber and her husband, it is a simpler matter. She needs a couple of people who will verify at least the basic portions of her story. I have already addressed your issues long long ago and do NOT need to repeat them - at least I wasn't out there trying to SELL a story. Quote Or someone from the hospital staff where Duane spent his last days? Exactly what do YOU seem to hint these hospital official witnessed. Remember that Duane specifically asked me if anyone was in the Room prior to talking to me about what he told me. Your claims are those of a BOOK writer who stands to benefit financially. At least the FBI looked at Weber and they did NOT even look at your suspect. I have publically stated I did NOT believe Knoss and was not able to verify the things he told me....and the reasons they were NOT worth verifying. I know where he started with his story and how he got there. If he actually knew Duane and his wife of the day - that would be a miracle in itself. You did NOT know KC - and your research - using your own words: IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 21 #29469 December 31, 2011 Bob Knoss wroteQuote Nixon was a PILOT Really? Proof? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29470 December 31, 2011 Quotewell if there is any validation to this story it blows everyone's theories right out of the water being that he survived the jump! Let me ask a few questions that help shed a little light on the obvious. 1. What do you think happened to the notes from Cooper to the Co-Pilot? Why did they not surface? Whose handwriting was on those notes. Why? Where are they now? I know. 2. Why was Tina ridiculed and laughed at? Why was she presented with an expensive bottle of French perfume? Who bought it? I know. 3. Why all the confusion about the parachutes? The SPECIAL chutes? I know. They were stored for the jump and the FBI was responsible to acquire them. They were incompetent. 4. Why did the co-pilot ask if everything back there was all right? I know. Signal to jump. 5. Why does Rohdes say the item found in the plane was McCoy's BYU pin and the FBI now say it was a tie clasp? I know. Mac got it back. 6. Why does Jo dis-own my comments? She told me. I know. 7. Why was the flight path actually flown parallel 15 miles west of the reported path? I know. Puts the jump in open dairy land. It is very obvious when you verify janet. 8. How did Cooper get to the right spot to jump? Not an accident. I know. 9. Why can't the FBI ever solve this case? I know. Carr said so, too. 10. Where is McCoy? I know. But I ain't sayin'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29471 December 31, 2011 QuoteBob Knoss wroteQuote Nixon was a PILOT Really? Proof? 377 He said so. Proof has to be out there somewhere. After five years as a lawyer, Nixon joined the navy in August 1942. He was an air transport officer in the South Pacific and a legal officer stateside before his discharge in 1946 as a lieutenant commander. Read more: Richard Milhous Nixon — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760621.html#ixzz1i4nSbdVJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29472 December 31, 2011 well to begin with my reply was in reference to the Marla case, your story from what I have been reading needs serious validation, if you are speaking of Janet who was a eyewitness to the jump,I find that very hard to believe, I live close to Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood airport and just went outside and all I can see from each plane that passes over is the Silhouette of each aircraft and there is no way I could tell if something was underneath the aircraft, the ceiling is unlimited right now. I live about 8 miles from the Airport so maybe you guys would know about how high the planes would be from that approach, I'm guessing under 2,000? now granted if I looked up and seen flares coming out of the Aircraft it would be a different story but still the plane was Supposably at 10,000 ft in a storm so I find this story hard to swallow?"It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Farflung 0 #29473 December 31, 2011 All this re-discussion about Kenny’s height and aliases and living witnesses all rang a primal bell in my recall. Hmmmm…… looks like one of the crewmembers is trying to confuse things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrshutter45 21 #29474 December 31, 2011 I posted a similar thing several days ago asking if anyone tried to get his height that way plus showed a picture with several issues I had commenting on the left side of the photo. never got any response."It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobKnoss 0 #29475 December 31, 2011 Quote now granted if I looked up and seen flares coming out of the Aircraft it would be a different story but still the plane was Supposably at 10,000 ft in a storm so I find this story hard to swallow? 305 was flying at 10,000 ft and 'Janet' claimed she saw it at 45°. AA+BB=CC Twernt no 8 miles. More like 2.8 miles. I never met Janet, nor have I ever tried to validate her claims. What I can offer is the report I received from Sgt. Richard Floyd McCoy, Jr., repeating the story told by Janet having come into the office. In order to squalsh the story, Mac went to see Janet as an FBI agent, and told her to "keep (her) fu.king mouth shut!" Now, you ask Janet if that is not correct. He was dressed in a black suit and had a badge, representing himself as an agent. From McCoy to me. If her report didn't have validity and cause a problem with conflicting facts, Mac would not have had to scare her, would he????? The flight was 15 miles WEST of where it was reported to be in order to hide the real jump zone. Janet's story confirms this. Mac confirmed Janet. You may also safely conclude the ease with which this information passed to McCoy from the FBI office had some bearing on who was running what. My God, guys, this is not that hard to figure out. It is ABC's in second grade math. Add it up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
