Bruno 0 #26 September 20, 2002 Don't worry hi will follow the suggestions of the best instructor in this world: the "HOSPITAL" Bruno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #27 September 20, 2002 Scobe, my first canopy was my current Spectre 170. Dressed for winter skydiving I'm 215 out the door, about 180 nekkid. It was too much canopy for me. After those student canopies, I think we have navigator 280's or something, when I came in for final I felt like I was jumping off a car on the freeway! The over ground speed took about 10 landings to get used to. I've got about 250 jumps on that canopy now, and I just ordered another Spectre, a 150. I think that's gonna be it for me. I'll make you a good deal on my 170 when my new one gets here, if you're interested, but that won't be until about November. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #28 September 20, 2002 > However, a number of people have said that, "You'll want a 150, > 170 will bore you." Generally, the people who say this aren't very good canopy pilots and cannot get a lot of performance out of their canopies, and thus downsize to get more speed rather than learn to fly them well. I have a Silhouette 170 that I can get a pretty good surf out of if I push it; it's a very different animal than my Safire 119 but can be flown hard. It just takes time, training and practice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #29 September 20, 2002 QuoteFuck him. Give the dude a Velocity 79! Then let natural selection do its things. Also, can we not even post this in the "incidents" section when the inevitable happens? It's not like anyone will be surprised or will learn anything. Yeah, whoever is lending this guy a 130 is a jerk-off. Also, S&TA and DZO should kick them both in the nuts and sit them down for a picture show of injuries. -Doug"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #30 September 20, 2002 I could not agree more. This guy should not be skydiving to begin with given that attitide. He either needs some instruction (if he does not understand) or some kicking in the nuts (if in deed he does understand)!Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #31 September 20, 2002 So far, I've been progressing down through the sizes, all the way from 300. I did actually skip from 260 to 210, but then I went back and filled in with 230. I think I'm going to stick to trying various 190s for a bit longer, then go to 170. I'm thinking I could probably stick with 170 long enough to make it worth a purchase. Anyway, I'll consider your Spectre. I really was impressed with the openings of the Spectre I jumped and landing it in no wind was a joy. It didn't seem to want to turn, though. I think I might just rent a Sabre2 again and see what it's like while I'm fully conscious... I feel rather anxious to buy something, and it's torture trying to hold out until I'm ready to get something that will actually last a while. But I'm trying! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #32 September 20, 2002 What I'm finding funny here is a lot of people that are saying he'll auger in won't say anything to people with more then 100 jumps about their canopy choice. A lot of people on this site are into down size/elliptical fever themselfs. I fly an elliptical, but its a a lower loading then most people on here fly. Its lower then some admit to having their first canopy loaded at. After being layed up last winter with an ankle that was the size of a softball and needing crutches to walk for 6 weeks, I felt a lot of pain for weeks and it still bothers me. A lightly loaded canopy at any experience level will bust you up, a heavier loading or even a lightly loaded elliptical will put you down for a long time. Next time you see someone jump from a 190 to a 150 or even a 150 to a 120... speak up no matter thier experience level and ask others to eval them. Peer presure works wonders if the entire plane is telling them to get off since they have no business under that canopy.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #33 September 20, 2002 Phree I agree with just about everything you said, but the peer pressure seems to be to load way up as soon as you can. It's like we're teaching people to ride motorcycles, they get to where they can ride a sedate 125cc street bike through the DMV cone test, and then they go buy a GSXR 1100. I think its hard to ride that 125 when it seems like everybody is on a GSX or an R1. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #34 September 20, 2002 I actually went from a 125 in the MSF class right to a FZR600 on the street. And then on my first ride, a car ran a red light and t-boned the car in front of me. It was definitely a baptism by fire! In retrospect, I should have bought something more sensible. Even though I've come to be really happy on my bike, I was intimidated for a while and managed to dump it twice. I don't want to repeat that experience with a canopy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #35 September 20, 2002 There are two types of motorcyclists in the world: 1) Those who have crashed ... 2) Those who have yet to crash ... I fall into the first category ... Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jwilson 0 #36 September 20, 2002 I don't have ANY experience myself flying high performance canopys , But i have been around for a long time and seen people do things they're not ready for and sometimes the dzo or the st&a wasn't even aware of it until sfter the fact. I'm not saying that it always turns out that someone gets hurt , but I have seen it happen . In my opinion if this guy won't listen to his friends or other skydivers about having the experience and skills to fly a particular canopy then the dzo or st&a or someone with the "power " should step up and say hey your just not gonna do here until you've proven to be a compitent canopy pilot. Not being mean or putting the guy down, but the bottom line is if you don't have the prerequsite skills to do it safely then he shouldn't be allowed to do it PERIOD. Jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #37 September 20, 2002 >but the peer pressure seems to be to load way up as soon as you can. In some places maybe, but not in all. My DZ has a ton of large canopies. Finding anytihng under 120 in the air is hard to due most weekends. There is only one Crossbraced canopy that is on the DZ on a regular basis. There are more Classics being jumped then Crossbraced. I took all sorts of flack and almost backed out of my decision at 200 jumps to jump from the Spectre 170 at 1:1 to the Cobalt 150 at 1.2:1. One factor that let me keep the canopy was I was given hints an tips from the local canopy coach. If the peer pressure on the DZ was for everyone to go larger then smaller... that would filter out to more starting jumpers then just fly what you want to. I'm happy that the student and even rental canopies are 7 cell f111 bigger then 200 feet. There is way less chance of someone getting hurt trying to land that type of canopy then leting them grab what ever size ZP the local gear rental place has for "experienced" jumpers.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #38 September 20, 2002 Yeah, there is nothing like sliding down the road at speed, watching your favorite toy slide after you expensively... Anyway, to continue the analogy, at least there are entry-level canopies. With bikes, sports 600s are first bike purchases, which is like someone getting a Stiletto as their first canopy. I'm going to wait a little longer, and then get the canopy equivalent of a SV650. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #39 September 20, 2002 Motorcycle has something canopy doesn't....brakes. You can control the when and where. If you have a bad spot in a dive and are landing off-field...you're landing off field and that's when the next set of variables come in. -Doug"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #40 September 20, 2002 QuoteMotorcycle has something canopy doesn't....brakes. You can control the when and where. If you have a bad spot in a dive and are landing off-field...you're landing off field and that's when the next set of variables come in. True, but traffic makes it all pretty unpredictable anyway. Enough about bikes, let's talk about parachutes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #41 September 20, 2002 You know that is kind of funny, my first bike was a FXZ600R. Could barely touch the ground and was scared of dropping it every time I came to a red light cause I knew I couldn't pick it back up. My next bike if I ever quit buying skydiving toys and get a different toy will be a ninga 250, why?? Cause I want to be able to touch the ground and well be able to pick it up when it falls over. As a side note I weight 105 with clothes on so there is more than enought power with the 250 and my weight. Which if you think about it is the same thing as me right now under my crossfire 104. the WL might only be 1.2 but as small as I am and the canopy is it is just as fast and has just as much power as me driving the 250 vs someone 170 lbs driving the 600 or flying a 135 and that isn't even adding in the fact that I jump at 5k ftFly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisionAir 0 #42 September 23, 2002 Quote> -land with rear risers With over 500 jumps I've still yet to do this....Scares the crap outta me for some reason. I've seen all the big boys swoopers do it... So if they can I know I can.... Think I'll try it on my next low hook. Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze Alex M. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #43 September 23, 2002 Alex... I think you missed to point. Bill recommends being able to land with rear risers not to increase you performance, but as an emergency procedure to increase your knowledge of your canopy.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #44 September 23, 2002 Actually, I disagree with Bill here. (I know this has been discussed here before, but I just want to give the newbie the other view on this...) (from Billvon's post:) >-flat turn at 50 feet at least, say, 90 degrees >-flare turn at least 45 degrees >-land uphill and downhill >-land crosswind and in no wind >-land standing up in a 10 meter target consistently >-land with rear risers I do agree on the other points, but: >-land with rear risers I don't think this is required. Practising rear-riser landings can be more dangerous than not having the ability to do it. IMO. >-land uphill and downhill If someone jumps on a flat DZ where there is no place to practice uphill/downhill-landings, it's not practical to require this. Again, my opinion only. Erno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisionAir 0 #45 September 23, 2002 QuoteAlex... I think you missed to point. Bill recommends being able to land with rear risers not to increase you performance, but as an emergency procedure to increase your knowledge of your canopy. No point missed! Ya did notice the didnt you. But after thinkin bout it...My apologies for a smart assed answer on a serious forum. Huh?!? What cloud?!? Oh that!!! That's just Industrial Haze Alex M. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #46 September 24, 2002 >>-land with rear risers >I don't think this is required. Practising rear-riser landings can be > more dangerous than not having the ability to do it. IMO. Two issues here. One, knowing how to land in rear risers can save you a reserve ride, and reserve malfunctions _do_ happen. Two, we had a jumper life-flighted out this weekend because he screwed up a rear riser flare. It is an advanced manuever, but one that, for many people who want to swoop, does have to be learned at some point - and making a mistake practicing a rear riser flare under a PD210 is much, much preferable to making the same mistake under a VX-97. Most canopy manuevers are better to learn before you get under a canopy that makes you afraid to try them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #47 September 24, 2002 QuoteMost canopy manuevers are better to learn before you get under a canopy that makes you afraid to try them. Those are words of wisdom. Only problem is that with big canopy the riser pressure is kinda high. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #48 September 24, 2002 front risers maybe....but not rears..... My safire has heavy fronts...but not too heavy...and the rears are super sweet.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #49 September 24, 2002 >Those are words of wisdom. Only problem is that with big canopy the > riser pressure is kinda high. Has a lot more to do with canopy design than canopy size. A riser generally carries a given percentage of your weight no matter what size the canopy is. (Which makes sense - you don't gain 50 lbs when you jump a bigger canopy, and your weight is the only thing that loads the risers.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #50 September 24, 2002 everyday you learn something new, thanx! HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
