AFF instructor course prepping with partner?

[Jessica 0]

For those of you who have your AFF instructor rating, when you were prepping for the course, did you train with a partner who you were actually going to do the eval dives with? If not, do you wish you had? How much training did you do?

Skydiving is for cool people only

[billvon 2,476]

I made about 40 practice jumps; at least 10 with my partner(s). I went to the course with two partners, one who I stayed with for most of the course, one I made my last jump with. I'm glad I did the training. (this was about five years ago.)

[QuickDraw 0]

I was only thinking about this the other day,
i did my AFF (upto level 5) with some friends, and i failed level 2 twice.
I was wondering weather training on my own would have been more benificial,
what was going through my mind was,
weather i was spending more time trying to iron out the routine of my friends, rather than working on my own.
We were all on the same levels but i think (to me anyway) it was a distraction.
I now have the chance to see if i was right, and will of course keep you posted.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[skymedic 0]

Jess is talking about getting her AFF-I rating.....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[QuickDraw 0]

Is that nearly the same then ?

Hmmm...looks like she edited her post after my reply...sneaky.

-- Hope you don't die. --

I'm fucking winning

[webracer 0]

I went to the AFFI course this year (Glenn Bangs-CD). I met my partner at the course, and we did about 6 practice jumps together (2 with staff AFFIs, and 4 with course evaluators). We also did jumps solo with staff AFFIs (I did 4 or 5, and she did 9 or 10) and with course evaluators (each did about 3 cat D jumps).
We bumped heads early on, but bonded on common goals and got through the course together. Now that it's over, we are great friends.
I think practicing with a partner is beneficial, but I believe (as Glenn said) that one practice jump with an evaluator is worth 10 practice jumps with a regular AFFI. Get ready for the personality conflicts though, when the stress comes on, people go into their own little worlds and deal with it in their own way.

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I totally agree that making jumps with the actual course director and those designated evaluators who will be working the course is VERY important. Training with an out-of-currency evaluator or just another AFF guy creates the great possiblilty of practicing wrong, out of sequence skydives. I am SO glad we payed for a pre-course and I was able to do full-speed practices with my CD.

As far as partners go, I think it's great to practice with someone who will be attending with you. it is very likely you will end up with another partner at some point in the course, but it's a good start.

Chuck

[Jessica 0]

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I am SO glad we payed for a pre-course and I was able to do full-speed practices with my CD.

So, with the pre-course, and the actual course and evaluation, was this a two-week commitment?

Most of the people I know who might be interested in instructing would be really hard pressed to be away from work for that kind of time. Sigh.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[webracer 0]

I didn't go to a precourse, but the course Glenn offered at SDC in July was for 9 days, of which two were for practice jumps. I paid $850 for the course and jumps (including practice jumps), and extra $20/jump for video (the video staff at SDC was great in not charging the candidates more than a jump ticket- also thanks to Mike Swanson who did a couple videos for me as well, again for $20 each).
I graduated in 8 days as did most of the candidates who made it.
The biggest wall for most people in the air is being able to fly their slot. You have to be very aware just to pass the course, and that is just the beginning of your training. You can make mistakes, you just have to recover and keep your head. Oh yeah, always turn toward the head at breakoff. I failed a "perfect" jump because I turned toward the feet.
Have fun and fly your slot... don't get upset when you make a mistake, just reset and go on. Manage the stress, most of it is created by you!

Troy

I am now free to exercise my downward mobility.

[Jessica 0]

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Have fun and fly your slot... don't get upset when you make a mistake, just reset and go on. Manage the stress, most of it is created by you!

I've got a ways to go before I even have the freefall time for an AFF rating...I'm just asking cause I'm nosy.

I appreciate everyone's input. This is valuable stuff.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[Sebazz1 2]

I totally practiced with my partner. We also spent hours and hours preparing materials together, talking, planning, etc... We had the help of two AFF evaluators as well that where familiar with the course director that put on our course We where very prepared as a team.

[tombuch 0]

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For those of you who have your AFF instructor rating, when you were prepping for the course, did you train with a partner who you were actually going to do the eval dives with? If not, do you wish you had? How much training did you do?

Do as many practice dives as you can, and try to do them with the same partner. That helps you develop in-air communication and splits the cost of the two person training jumps. CD's are better for those training jumps than regular AFF-I's, and the precourse is best of all.

If you are doing training jumps with an AFF-I, you don't really need to do all simulated level jumps. Try some skill work, like asking the I to flip and spin, then you catch and roll, repeat, repeat, repeat. Do the repetition thing on each jump. Flat spins with recovery are good for this kind of drill, as are slight drifts with a requirement to stay in place and evaluate the causes of those drifts. I think isolating skills and repeating them is a efficient use of training time with an AFF-I, then put them into the context of a full practice level.

-tom buchanan
AFF-I, etc.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[riggerrob 563]

tombuch has good point.
You are better off following the PFF concept of planning a specific problem for each practice dive, then repeating the solution to that problem before moving on.
For example: if the major problem for this practice dive is flipping inverted students upright, then dirt dive the recovery process, exit the airplane, release the stand-in student early, watch him flip over, grab him, flip him upright, release him and repeat the process.
This concept makes far wiser use of training dives than random problems.

[jumpervali 1]

I did over 50 training jumps during the 3 months before going. The small dz I jumped at had no aff, so I had to go out of town to train. I went to the course alone. The only disadvantage to going to a course without a partner is the student training phase of the jump. Some time will need to be spent with anyone your working with so you have a nice smooth flow. All the training jumps I made were done with current aff-i/e's. The best training I got was to practice with the real dive flows. That raised my comfort level, and trained proper responses to what he is doing. If I was going to give you just one tip it would be proper responses to the students body position. You will get good marks if you fly your slot, and keep your hands off the student. The i/e will be looking at your air skill no doubt, but he wants to see you respond to the students body position with the proper signals. How many times did my i/e need signals 2 or 3 maybe. I never had to roll one back over either. When I was training I got some rollover training because I caused them. Don't grab their hand "oops" that was fast. You may be still building the f/f time to go, so why not go ahead and start training, it builds time.

just relax and have fun
jumpervali aff-i

[SpaceUnknown 0]

Just being curious, how many jumps do you need to have become an AFFI?

James

AAAAA - American Association Against Acronym Abuse.

[skybytch 259]

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how many jumps do you need to have become an AFFI?

As far as I know, it's not jump numbers but freefall time. Last time I looked into it, it was a minimum of six hours of freefall (before that it was only four...).

So if I'm still correct on the above I guess the minimum jump numbers would be the least possible number of jumps it takes someone to reach six hours.

There are other requirements too. I believe a D license is needed, along with a filled out proficiency card prior to attending the cert course.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Six hours of freefall, but there are those who pass the course with considerably less under "special" circumstances. There are plenty of courses in Arizona and here in NC where you will find such people. All have amazingly long hair for active duty soldiers.

Chuck

[NoShitThereIWas 0]

Well said Troy. I love you Man!!! AFF partner extraordinairre!

Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires."

Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."

[Shark 0]

Jessica,

Someone else probably mentioned it, but know the bottom end sequence on Cat. C & D. It may save a mediocre eval dive. Not knowing caused some good flyers to wash out. And yes, manage your stress level and have fun.

[wmw999 2,175]

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Last time I looked into it, it was a minimum of six hours of freefall (before that it was only four...).

In 1982 it was 6 hours. At least that's what I remember when I was counting them...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rigging65 0]

I found that doing test jumps with my partner was very beneficial to (both of) our success during the course. Jumping with the same person lets you divide up some of the responsibility with some assurance that the other guy will do his/her job. You've got someone who knows you watching your back.

Something else: I'm a big guy, so I intentionally teamed up with a small friend of mine when we went through. If the student went low, I was faster to him, which gave her a bit more time to get there. If the student floated, she nailed him in place giving me a second to get there. Basically, we made each other look good. Stack the deck in your favor...and go to the Pre-Course! It's a great way to get taught what's going to be on the test!

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[Lolie 0]

Okay, I've decided I'm going to spend less time in Talkback and more time asking skydiving questions when I'm on dz.com, so here goes:

webracer said:

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Oh yeah, always turn toward the head at breakoff. I failed a "perfect" jump because I turned toward the feet.

Why are you supposed to turn toward the head?

And Shark said:

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know the bottom end sequence on Cat. C & D.

What exactly does that mean? I'm assuming that's AFF Categories C & D... I looked in the SIM to see what you might mean by the "bottom end sequence," but I still don't get it...

Thanks, guys!

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[Shark 0]

Hey Lolie,

Turning towards the head is more of a safety thing and you may receive an unsat score on the eval. When tracking away from the student it is best to turn towards the front, lessening the possibility of getting kicked in the head/face. There was a recent incident in which an instructor was fataly injured by what was believed to be a kick to the head.

During the course you are evaluated on 2 Cat. C jumps and 1 Cat. D-2 jump. On Cat. C you must successfully complete the eval from the main-side and from the reserve-side. Of course, you may end up on the other side from which you exited, but get credit for the side you exited from. The Cat. D-2 is the second dive flow on Cat. D; single instructor release dive with 360 turns. In this case, inverted spins.

The bottom-end is the sequence that must be mastered on each catagory/level for the pull sequence. On a Cat. C main-side, if the "student" does not wave off, a COA or altimeter tap at 5,400 is given. No initiation of pull, a pull signal is given at 4.9. Slow, no, or incorrect response by the student, redock and assist. If the student fights assist, pull ripcord, turn ~180 towards the head and track. On the reserve-side Cat. C, pretty much the same, although you redock after the main has redocked, then continue to give pull signal and simulate a ripcord pull by taping the main lift web (or what's designated by the evaluator) and ride through the deployment before tracking away. Again, 180 turn towards the head. The tap out must be after the main-side has pulled for the student, or below 4, but above 3.5 which is the hard deck.

For Cat. D, at 6 thou, signal no more turns. At 4.9 a wave off prompt. Slow, no, or incorrect response, freeflown pull signal, then redock and assist. Fights assist, pull ripcord and ride through deployment. Again, 3.5 is the hard deck, below that game-over. As a rule of thumb, the ripcord belongs to the student from 5 to 4. Below 4 it's yours. If not pulled by 3.5, an automatic unsat.

Hope this helps,

Shark

[markbaur 0]

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Why are you supposed to turn toward the head?

As the student's parachute deploys, his feet swing forward. If the instructor turns toward the student's head, he's turning away from getting kicked.

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bottom end sequence

The SIM describes the student's actions at pull time, but doesn't describe what the instructors should do. The standard bottom end sequence for instructors with an unresponsive student is:
-- altitude reminder (altimeter tap or wave prompt). If that doesn't get the student started with his pull sequence, then
-- pull signal. If the student doesn't start to pull, then
-- redock and attempt to assist the student with his pull. If the student resists, then
-- pull the ripcord and, depending on the situation, either leave or remain in place to ensure deployment.

Timing is important. Starting the bottom end sequence high robs the student of the opportunity to do it himself, and may be the difference in earnng an advancement to the next category. Finishing the sequence low compromises safety.

This is a tough sequence to fly, made tougher in the AFF IRC because the candidates will arrive at this point after having experienced 30 to 45 seconds of tumbled exit, spins, flips, and tons of adrenaline, but still needing to make accurate decisions:
-- What if the student responds to the alti tap by waving, but just keeps waving?
-- What if the student does a practice pull instead of an actual pull?
-- What if the student starts to pull, then waves off?
-- What if the student pulls on the instructors altimeter instead of the ripcord?

Mark

[Lolie 0]

Thanks guys!

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.