JohnElliott 0 #1 March 1, 2006 There must be alot of people out there with more money than brains. I keep getting info on training at this club to be reasonably priced and how they are "non-profit." PLEASE guys get an education on the financial use of the term "non-profit...!!!" Also note, if you do your homework you will find Frontier Skydivers to be the MOST EXPENSIVE place to train at. So please no more Frontier crap for my ears. Sorry, I have more brains than money....I wish I had the opposite...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 March 1, 2006 This is your fourth post on dropzone.com and you have decided to bash a specific dropzone, and skydivers as a whole. Let me offer some advice: 1) This is a very small sport with a very tight community. Be careful throwing around accusations and insults. 2) Skydiving is expensive. Period. Trying to do it "on the cheap" will only frustrate you. 3) Even the "for profit" skydiving operations are not printing money. See #2. 4) Until you fully understand the economics of the sport, it is difficult to understand pricing policies of the various operations and their student programs. Again, be careful of the accusations you're throwing around. 5) Non-profit or not-for-profit has absolutely nothing to do with how much an organization charges for its goods or services. 6) I don't know "alot [sic] of people out there with more money than brains." Most people approach the financial realities of this sport with their eyes open. Approach this sport with an open heart and an open mind and you will be welcomed by an interesting, wonderful group of people. Insult everyone before you even start, and you won't have much fun at all."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 March 1, 2006 Doesn't look very expensive to me compared to industry average.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #4 March 1, 2006 furthr its the 3rd thread on dz's in general skydiving. didn't you read the sticky or don't you just care The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #5 March 1, 2006 QuoteThere must be alot of people out there with more money than brains. I keep getting info on training at this club to be reasonably priced and how they are "non-profit." PLEASE guys get an education on the financial use of the term "non-profit...!!!" Also note, if you do your homework you will find Frontier Skydivers to be the MOST EXPENSIVE place to train at. So please no more Frontier crap for my ears. Sorry, I have more brains than money....I wish I had the opposite...... Has anyone taken the time to give you the "bowling ball" talk? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #6 March 1, 2006 Frontier isn't even close to being the "most expensive" drop zone. A first tandem has a list price of $205, and a second tandem is $175, with group discounts available. The first AFF jump is $285. Those prices don't strike me as being outrageous by any measure. The full price list is available on their web site at: http://www.frontierskydivers.com/page.php?page_id=10. Frontier is a once small, now mid-sized drop zone operated by and for jumpers. The non-profit part simply means that they plow all their income back into the drop zone, and do not have an owner taking profit out of the business. Frontier has plenty of very well respected and highly trained instructors, lots of riggers, good airplanes, and a great reputation within the industry. Frontier has been in business for decades and the folks there will go out of their way to make your jump experience a positive one. The drop zone is located on a farmers field far outside of Buffalo, New York, and offers great views and a friendly place to spend some time. I suggest you review your priorities when shopping for a drop zone. Price is just one factor. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #7 March 1, 2006 You will have also no doubt learn that if you dare upset someone you will be publicly hounded. The forum rules are not the ten commandments. Give people a break Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #8 March 1, 2006 John, The pricing is not out of line. There are DZs less expensive and DZs that are more expensive for training. I can understand you concern with the costs of training but please shop and compare before you get all riled up,OK? One other thing...it's all about quality of training, not quantity of dollars.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #9 March 1, 2006 hmmmmm. Well I don't HAVE much money,, but I DO have Brains... and I know a good DZ when I see it... and soooo I have skydived at Frontier since the mid 70's I don't remember seeing YOU there.... and so just WHAT do you KNOW about the DZ I call HOME..???? The price list????.. What do you think.. since we are "non-profit" we will Not charge you to learn to skydive????? get real.. Ever look into just what DOES go into running a DZ.. ??????? Expenses,,,, are what keep us Non profit.... Much of the day to day work around the place is accomplished by volunteer-members... Still the USPA rated Instructors, the top notch student gear,,,the aircraft, the grounds upkeep and all the viscious and various "overheads" do require Money!!!! We all pay an annual membership fee, AND pay for our skydives or else work ( and work Hard) for our jumps....there's no free lunch John. If it was possible to train people like you,, and charge much much LESS.... we would accomplish 2 things... 1. we would be a "non ANYthing dz" 2. we would allow some newcomer like you... to share in what WE have worked decades to create... WHY should YOU get to jump out of a turbine, at 13,500 with two 20 + years AFF veterans going along to "cover for your student inadaquacies" and eventually guide you to a safe landing, and then get it "cheap".... go jump somewhere else.. The price of jumps. needs to be compared to the VALUE recieved for that expenditure..... and when turning out safe, capable student/novice skydivers is the Value..... the amount asked from folks like you.. is small small small.. I have grown weary the past few years of a growing Number of Non-skydivers who happen to fancy themselves as "adventure seekers" who come to our place as though it's "McDonalds".. and order up a tandem,,,, and "oh by the way, I want it with the best cameraperson you have, and I want it with a certain color jumpsuit, and I want it with this particular Tandem master, and I wanna jump with my 3 buddies,and I want It "IN THE NEXT HOUR"..... Take a back seat pal.... This isn't an amusement ride,, The hundreds of people who have come, and in some cases gone ( due to dissatisfaction with having to share their dropzone with impatient and sometimes inconsiderite "customers"... who show up once and then depart, leaving litter, empties and cigarette butts all over our manicured lawns).. those people have created the Place where you can " explore your wild side "..... you wanna skydive "cheap'??? I can name a couple of places you can go... But you'll get a 182 to 10,000. You WON"T jump with your friend,, and it'll be late afternnon before you get outta there.... OR you can come to our place.. PAY the very Fair price we are forced to ask,,,AND while you're waiting for you load.. maybe YOU can get on the tractor and spend 3 or 4 hours to mow the landing area the way a certain FEW members have been doing for years ( you know who you are,, all you hard working frontier staff and members) as for others,,, We DO have a welcoming attitude and a pleasant way at our safety conscious DZ... Please bring the same ,, if you THINK you are going to get to skydive with US..Experienced Jumpers... YOU are always welcome. bring your in-date reserve and your USPA/FAI credentials and we will share the sky, together... Frontier "turning non-profit into an Art" for the last 40 years... hahahahah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #10 March 1, 2006 Right on, Jimmy! Frontier is hands down, one of the most friendly, nice DZs to jump at with the best bunch of people and staff you could ask for! Prices are certainly not out of line, nor near the most expensive in the business. This bashing of your DZ is SO far off base it is ridiculous. Besides, Fingerlakes Skydivers, just down the road a piece, has higher prices than you! But I think that anyone who visits either DZ will agree, it is hard to find better people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #11 March 1, 2006 You have 2 jumps (according to your profile). Linked to your profile is a review of a Polish club where you say it is the "best" DZ you ever jumped at but you also complain it is "expensive". (Like Frontier?) With respect, maybe a bit more time in the sport will give you the basis to make especially relative statements about different DZs?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #12 March 1, 2006 I learned to jump at 4 different DZ's in Upstate New York, and Frontier was one of them. Some of the greatest times I ever had as a novice jumper was jumping at Frontier. They've never gotten worse; they've only gotten better. You seriously do not know what the hell you're talking about. Skydiving is all about the people and community. Just like many other places, Upstate New York jumpers are a community. You publicly bash like this, without basis, how welcome do you think you're going to be at any DZ within driving distance of where you are now? Nice move. Edit: I notice you started another thread publicly bitching about the Erie, PA club not returning your calls (in the dead of winter), and yet another thread soliciting all student training thru A license for $1,000 total. To put it kindly: you need to do a bit o' learnin'. Your radius keeps getting larger and larger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #13 March 1, 2006 ok buddy... a PM trashing our club before, from your information you haven't set foot there, is one thing, but getting on here calling one of the oldest remaining skydiving clubs in the nation crap is something i consider a personal attack. there are a lot of us that make that place work and many more that enjoy it. if you were to judge by the number of times you've heard your "Frontier crap" your copious amount of brain matter may just tell you that you get something more then just a jump or the minimum when you train at our club. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azureriders 0 #14 March 1, 2006 Below is a comparison of the prices that Frontier is advertising and what I paid at Gold Coast. I think everyone here will agree that they are both on line with average. Gold coast offers free coach jumps and training video, costing me only for the coach/videot slot, pack job, and tip to the video editor. That is the only way that Gold Coast wound up on the cheap side of the chart. Other cost could also be added to this. If you don't buy your own rig (they cost money too) you will be looking at $250 plus in gear rental between AFF graduation and your A license. What if takes you 14 jumps instead of 7 to graduate AFF (don't think this can't happen because it can and does) thats another $1200 plus. You will need more jump tickets if you are not done with you A liscense proficiency card by jump # 25 (also happens a lot) I work hard for my money in a company that I have owned and operated for over 12 years and that I started from scratch when I could not afford a $2000 work truck must less a $2000 jump coarse. So don't tell me that I got more money than brains. My brains will not let me spend a penny with out shopping the market and I Just recieved my A license after jump #32 and my wife is currently level 4 AFF. I think I am qualified to say that if you should not be suprised if it costs you triple what you are expecting. -------------------------------------------------GOLD ------------------------------FRONTIER-------COAST First Jump Coarse------------40----------------100 Level 1 AFF------------------285----------------179 Level 2-----------------------185----------------179 Level 3-----------------------185----------------179 Level 4-----------------------150----------------179 Level 5-----------------------150----------------179 Level 6-----------------------150----------------179 Level 7-----------------------150----------------179 AFF Total--------------------1295---------------1353 6 Coach Jumps--------------450----------------276 3 Training videos------------195----------------138 Additional jump tickets------240----------------240 A license total --------------2180---------------2007 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSpoon 2 #15 March 1, 2006 Well said Jim. But you should be careful of what pictures you post. If word gets out that we have some of the sexiest girls in the industry on our staff we are gonna be swamped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #16 March 1, 2006 QuoteThere must be alot of people out there with more money than brains...... PLEASE guys get an education..... Also note, if you do your homework you will find Frontier Skydivers to be the MOST EXPENSIVE place to train at. So please no more Frontier crap for my ears........ Wow...... NORMALLY it takes a couple years to burn ALL the bridges to your local DZ's!!!! I guess it takes someone with "brains" to burn them all down in a day! Good luck in your quest.....BTW, did you get your pilots license for $1,000 at a non-profit club too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #17 March 1, 2006 QuoteThere must be alot of people out there with more money than brains. I keep getting info on training at this club to be reasonably priced and how they are "non-profit." PLEASE guys get an education on the financial use of the term "non-profit...!!!" Also note, if you do your homework you will find Frontier Skydivers to be the MOST EXPENSIVE place to train at. So please no more Frontier crap for my ears. Sorry, I have more brains than money....I wish I had the opposite...... for the last couple of years the 4 way team I am part of travel to Frontier. 2 of us live north of Toronto so that makes it a 2-2.5 hour drive one way with little traffic. We pass several Canadian dropzones to get there. People at Frontier are top notch and saves us cash over jumping in Canada. Very fun place to swoop (beside the barn).... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #18 March 1, 2006 Take up golf. You can't dictate that you will only spend X dollars on your lessons. Stop wasting our time and bandwidth.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #19 March 1, 2006 Quoteok buddy... a PM trashing our club before, from your information you haven't set foot there, is one thing, but getting on here calling one of the oldest remaining skydiving clubs in the nation crap is something i consider a personal attack. there are a lot of us that make that place work and many more that enjoy it. if you were to judge by the number of times you've heard your "Frontier crap" your copious amount of brain matter may just tell you that you get something more then just a jump or the minimum when you train at our club. But your loyalty is the very stuff, of which this club is made. hahaha.. I suppose I might have gone a little easier on him myself, so JohnElliott... am sorry for seeming to blast you.. maybe you stopped short in your seach for comparative prices... keep looking. a few more pics.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #20 March 1, 2006 damn that's a tight landing area Are you sure its safe for students?http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #21 March 1, 2006 Does anyone know if this guy is for real?? I mean posting something pretty foolish like he has then attaching a photo too Makes me wonder Maybe someone is being an ASS at the expense of the guy in the photo?? <> Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #22 March 1, 2006 good question... this photo gives a better idea of the landing areas..plus aside from one Farmer McNasty, there are a good number of outs.. Each student is briefed in front of a 3' x 4' aerial photo and also taken outside to note the windsock location, and see what it's doing. Good instincts carbonezone.. some people do get a bit stir crazy around here, this time of the year.. and could just be making mischief... Funny how we have not seen a response from the original poster to any of the many replies..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #23 March 1, 2006 QuoteFunny how we have not seen a response from the original poster to any of the many replies..... Actually he has replied, in his "train me for $1,000" thread. Sadly, it gets no better: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2104474#2104474 ...not to mention: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2104608#2104608 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newshooter12 0 #24 March 1, 2006 thanks jimmy... yeah. i could be nice, but i need to be forward after he PMed me and trashed me. i even asked him if he's a troll and he said yes. but then i tried to narrow down who may be the one making mischief and it's back to stories about how he'll never go there... i have a feeling carbone is right and we'll hear a story around the bonfire or maybe from over where the sunflowers grow... then we'll laugh and have a beer. matt hey is bob one of the "big dogs" you plan on unleashing on him?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #25 March 1, 2006 Dude, you cannot afford to skydive. There is a reason skydiving is as expensive as it is, to keep people like you out! jBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
