gus 1 #1 July 29, 2003 I've just been looking at the Wings EXT, which gives you the ability to have a small main and a large reserve, then I was re-reading some old posts about overloading reserves and it made me wonder: who here has actually flown (or more specifically, landed) a highly loaded reserve? I'll leave it up to you to decide what 'highly loaded' means but if you put in your reply what the canopy was, what the loading was and how the landing was it'll be really interesting to see what people have to say. FYI, I have a Tempo 120 which I've never used but which would be loaded at 1.5 GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #2 July 29, 2003 I test jumped my reserve (paltry PD176) loading it to about 1.2. Flew beutifully and basically the same as my main although didnt flinch at the 3 twists I had on opening. Even managed a surfed landing. My point is not that this is an experiance of a high wing loading, but that you can test jump most reserves. At perris Square One let you borrow any reserve they have and hook it up as a main to jump - see if you can have a go on yours. If your gonna end up on your reserve, your likely to be in a bit of shit - or at least shaken up a bit - so it would be nice to have had experiance of how it flys, especially if your gonna be loading it highly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 July 29, 2003 I have flown a MR-109-M and a PD-106R loaded at 1.7/1.8:1. I have landed both at over 5,000 ft MSL. I managed to stand them up, but I wouldn't recommend it. They were very touchy to fly and land. The PD had a deeper flare and was harder to stall. 7 cell, F-111 canopies just aren't forgiving. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 July 29, 2003 I flew a demo (I have no cutaways) PDR-176 loaded at around 1.6 a few times. I found it flew really well, was easy to handle and actually fun to fly. I found that I could sink it in very nice, or land it going faster and still stand it up. Would I recommend loading a reserve higher then 1:1? Nope. So, you milage may vary, terms and conditions apply, yada yada yada... (as a side note, the demo that Kolla sent me had dive loops on the risers...PDRs do swoop and not too badly, either )--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 562 #5 July 29, 2003 Sorry, the smallest reserve I have jumped is an Amigo 176 loaded at only 1.3. It flew much like a Sabre I/170, I just had to remember to do a FULL stroke on the brakes for landing. Incidentally the landing was comfortable. On the other hand, several customers and the Precision factory have told me that over-loaded Ravens are not nearly as forgivng. When you load Ravens in the 1.5 range, the toggle stroke gets short, i.e. ear level equals stall and they do not flare very well. Then the Precision factory launched into a sales pitch about how much better their new R Max series of reserves fly when over-loaded, yada, yada, yada ... Other comments from customers include watching a PD 126 - loaded at 1.6 - land gracefully. Mind you the user had 3,000 skydives. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #6 July 29, 2003 QuoteSorry, the smallest reserve I have jumped is an Amigo 176 loaded at only 1.3. It flew much like a Sabre I/170, I just had to remember to do a FULL stroke on the brakes for landing. Incidentally the landing was comfortable. On the other hand, several customers and the Precision factory have told me that over-loaded Ravens are not nearly as forgivng. When you load Ravens in the 1.5 range, the toggle stroke gets short, i.e. ear level equals stall and they do not flare very well. Then the Precision factory launched into a sales pitch about how much better their new R Max series of reserves fly when over-loaded, yada, yada, yada ... Other comments from customers include watching a PD 126 - loaded at 1.6 - land gracefully. Mind you the user had 3,000 skydives. Personally I don't see the point in highly loading your reserve - can anyone explain that to me? If you are unconcious it doesn't matter if you have 5 jumps or 3000 - why would you want a screamer coming in ? Other than "oo look how small my container is" factor.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #7 July 29, 2003 What about the two out scenario where you want the two canopies to be as congruent as possible? I think a 175 reserve and a 75 main would act a little more funkier than a 113 reserve and a 75 main? Not to mention a lot of people dont have a cypres so an unconscious landing is pretty doubtful (I guess unless the reserve opening knocked you out...), so they might as well load it a little so they can at least get a decent swoop out of it when/if they use it... --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #8 July 29, 2003 I didn't really want this to turn into a debate , all these arguments have been done to death. I was really just interested in people's experiences. Keep 'em coming. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miller 0 #9 July 29, 2003 Tempo 120 with me around 195lbs. (weight vest, full face camera helmet, video, stills). Didn't really flare hard. Just kind of eased into half brakes Landed okay. Stood up, but my feet stung a little bit. PD-113 with me around 180lbs. (no weight, cameras...) Flared pretty quickly to about 3/4 brakes, somewhat cross wind (off airport landing). Landed exceptional. In fact, I was blown away at how well it landed. I know that if I have to land this with my weight on I'll have no problems. Both rides were at my home DZ which has a field elevation of around 800ft. above MSL. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #10 July 29, 2003 I have a Raven Dash-M 150 reserve and have jumped it twice. My wingloading on that is 1:1.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #11 July 29, 2003 I have two jumps on my PD106 at around 1.8 Landed it downwind. I have nothing but good things to say about this reserve. I have not attempted a braked approach, but I feel confident that it would be fine at our elevation. ~800 ft msl Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #12 July 29, 2003 Dash M 181 at 1.35, and got 14000 feet of unplanned practice on it.....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #13 July 29, 2003 You know... Most people find out their reserve opens at 1400 feet, Remster you had to be 10 times better then them huh? I'm yet to jump my reserve and forsee no reason to go smaller then my 160R, but the demo jumps I've got on the Ravens and other reserve class canopies at the DZ leave me questioning their proformance above a certian level.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #14 July 29, 2003 QuoteMost people find out their reserve opens at 1400 feet Never said I opened it…. It was kinda like a P.A.D. (Plane Assisted Deployement)…. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #15 July 29, 2003 I've jumped a -M reserve (181) loaded at about 1.6. It flew just fine, I took some time to get to know it, and it actually landed quite nice....but...I could feel it was close to a stall on landing. I asked Precision about this and they told me (as I already knew) that when the -M reserves are overloaded their stall point comes way down. This makes sense to me and I'm informed about it, so I know how to handle it...hopefully if you're jumping a reserve loaded more heavily you know the same thing! Your reserve is not "just another" canopy. It's probably a different animal than what you're used to, so make damn sure you take some time to practice with it up high before you get too low! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 July 29, 2003 A good point that hasn't been brought up yet, is to get a demo of your reserve (if possible) and put some jumps on it! Otherwise, you'll never know how it flies until the shit hits the fan, and you're having to sink your reserve past powerlines into someone's 12'x12' fenced backyard...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #17 July 29, 2003 PD113 at 1.6. I have six rides on this. I had dive loops on my reserve risers for 4 of the rides. It hooked ok. Cutaway at 600ish feet it opened great. Straight in it flew very well. My last cut away I had a braked approach to put me in a VERY tight area in DeLand. At around 50 feet I slowly let it fly, and got a very nice swoop to a stand up about 5 feet from a large pile of wood. I love my PD reserve. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pattersd 0 #18 July 29, 2003 I just had my first flight on a Tempo 170 loaded at 1.4 at Lost Prairie last week. I did a carving front riser 90 and was really surprised at how far the canopy swooped to a one step landing. The flare was really deep into the toggle stroke. I also demo'd a PD143R loaded at 1.7 last year, before buying a new rig with a 143 reserve. Did 6 jumps on it in a variety of conditions, trying different landing styles, including front riser carve, straight in approaches and sinking approaches. The sinking approach put me on the ground a bit hard, but the other approaches were all nice landings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #19 July 29, 2003 I will not overload a reserve. I jump a Safire2 169 at 1.6 and a Precision 249 Dash M reserve (rated to 277). I would much rather look up and see too much reserve, than to have my last thoughts be, "I shoulda got a bigger reserve." Its not your last chance, its your only chance. Course, I'm old school so... its probably worth about a half a cent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #20 July 29, 2003 QuoteOtherwise, you'll never know how it flies until the shit hits the fan, and you're having to sink your reserve past powerlines into someone's 12'x12' fenced backyard... While I agree that it is a good idea to demo a reserve if unsure, I highly doubt I would ever try and sink either my normal main or reserve past powerlines into a 12 by 12 fenced yard. That just does not make any sense to me. But I get your point. Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #21 July 29, 2003 QuoteWhile I agree that it is a good idea to demo a reserve if unsure, I highly doubt I would ever try and sink either my normal main or reserve past powerlines into a 12 by 12 fenced yard. That just does not make any sense to me. The point you seem to be missing is...That you may not have that choice. I had to land a 113 in a VERY small field with the approach being 120 foot trees on one side of the road, and power lines on the other side. A building with power lines on my right, and my left was 50 foot trees. About 30-40 feet from the road was a large pile of wood, and right after that was another building with phone lines running from my right and cutting accross the front to the back of the building. You think I WANTED to land there? My other options were MUCH worse. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bschuyler 0 #22 July 29, 2003 I recently had a reserve ride on my Raven-M 120 at a wing loading of a little more than 1.5:1. It was close to the stall point when the breaks were set,and if I put more weight on one side of the harness, it would start to stall on that side. I would not want to be unconsious under this canopy. I plan to replace it with a PD reserve. It did fly well after releasing the breaks, but the toggle stroke was very short before it would stall. I had a hard stand up landing, which I expected due to the flare characteristics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #23 July 29, 2003 I have 7 rides on a PD Reserve loaded at almost 1.7 to 1. It flies great and lands perfectly. All 7 landings have been perfect stand-ups. It doesn't have a whole lot of lift on the flare, but what do you expect from a 7 cell square loaded that heavily. Now that I have flown it as many times as I have, I can definitely say that I would not like to fly one loaded any heavier than that. -OKTime flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #24 July 29, 2003 QuoteI have 7 rides on a PD Reserve 7?!?!? When did you pass me?... Hell, maybe I have 7 as well...."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 79 #25 July 29, 2003 QuoteWhen did you pass me?... About 3 weeks ago!Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
