cbain 0 #1 Posted November 11, 2002 I have a question that's been brewing in my mind lately. You're getting ready to jump with some new people, either RW or freefly, and the inevitable question comes up, "How many jumps do you have?" That's all fine and everything for getting a feel for peoples experience levels. And of course lisences, ratings, etc are all jump number based. And a tandem rating also requires 3 years in the sport and all that. So how do you feel time in the sport relates to experience level? For instance comparing a person who's been in the sport 6 months and has 300 jumps to a person in the sport 3-5 years and has 300 jumps. If that's all the information you had about them would you treat these two people the same or would expectations be any different? And this would relate to freefall skills, canopy skills, general skydiving knowledge, etc. Christina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 November 11, 2002 Freefall skills the person more current will generally be better. Canopy, thats a lot up to the pilot. I've seen newbies that I'd take up on a CRW jump if they wanted to at 25-30 jumps but won't come near a few people that have 500+ jumps under canopy. Skydiving knowledge... unless the person thats been around for the shorter time lives at the DZ and takes the time to listen to the old timers and read the old Skydivings and Parachutists laying around the DZ.. they will probally be less informed then the jumper thats been around for 3 years. A lot comes down to personal observation skills too. How many newbies can tell you about the Nova? Or about the Crossfire? Capewells? The days when ZP was considered a student killer?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 November 11, 2002 First of all, to the person who was in the sport for 6 months and had 300 jumps: I hate you.Seriously, though, the person with the low time and a lot of jump numbers will probably have a better skill set, then the person who had the same number of jumps over the course of 3-5 years. Especially if a good portion of those jumps were coached jumps of some sort (skydive U. etc). I would think that the person with the time in sport would generally be a safer skydiver, with more experience in different and sometimes diffucult situations. That is the reason why TM ratings require 3 years in the sport. All in all, I think this would relate to general skydiving skill, not just freefall or canopy control. That also depends a lot on what that person's focus has been. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 November 11, 2002 Lots of jumps in a short amount of time gives a jumper currency. They tend to have good free-fall and canopy skills. What they tend to not have is lots of experience from watching others and seeing different problems. Less jumps over a longer period of time can give a jumper more experience, if that jumper spends every weekend at the DZ like the very current jumper. Take two skydivers: Jumper "A" goes to the DZ every weekend and makes 10 jumps a day, 20 a weekend and jumper "B" goes to the DZ every weekend and makes 10 jumps a day, but only goes out to the DZ for 1 day a weekend, but started jumping before jumper "A" so they both have the same number of jumps. They have the same jumps, and have spent the same amount of time at the DZ, but jumper "A" has more currency. So everything else being equal, jumper "A" should be a better skydiver than jumper "B". There are a lot of variables. Time in the sport (time at the DZ or reading/talking skydiving w/ others) translates into experience or knowledge. Making lots of skydives in a short amount of time translates into currency and tends to increase a jumpers abilities over someone that spreads their jumps out over a longer time span. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #5 November 11, 2002 Boy, what a loaded question. I'm going to take a different route in my response than the ones already posted. You asked about experience level and I don't take that to be physical manipulation totally. It also has to do with judgement. Having been in the sport longer, Jumper B may have seen more winded out days. They may have seen some other jumpers get hurt because of high/turbulent winds. Jumper B may have spent more time on DZ.com reading about all kinds of different topics. Not just incident reports, but also articles on "how to". It's been said, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." So if Jumper A has just gone up for jump after jump just because they can afford it have they really improved anything? Being in the sport for only 6 months I would say that Jumper A has not seen all parts of the year for jumping. Varying weather conditions need different considerations. Just spending all your time jumping may have you missing out on other learning experiences about the sport. So my final answer, Regis, is that Jumper B is the more experienced jumper as I define what "experienced" is. Chris Schindler Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #6 November 11, 2002 Speaking as a jumper who has 8 years in the sport with only 500 jumps. I'd have to say the jumper with more time has a small edge on somene with alot of jumps and little time in the sport. My reasoning is simple, those of us with more time have had a chance to see many people make mistakes and be able to learn from them. We are less likely to repeat those we have witnessed, or sometimes just heard about. With that said however, there is no substitute for staying current, and alot depends on the individual. I guess for me the bottom line is, I'd feel a little more comfortable with a more experienced jumper as opposed to a new guy who has a lot of jumps in a short time, but who can really burn points or swoop. That's my two cents worth. Blue Skies, J "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgross 1 #7 November 12, 2002 I am sure you heard of the guy in PARACHUTIST.. I forget his name. He's young, I think he was in the sport like 2yrs and had something ridiculous like 4000 jumps... ROOK NELSON I think that is it. I just i wish I had the time and money for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 November 12, 2002 Rook has been jumping since he was like 4 or 6.... Plus his Dad owns a DZ he can jump for free at Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eeneR 1 #9 November 12, 2002 Dont forget that he is also part of the national and world championship freefly team..... She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway." eeneR TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lolie 0 #10 November 12, 2002 Quote Dont forget that he is also part of the national and world championship freefly team..... *sigh...* He's so dreamy! -Miranda you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #11 November 12, 2002 *sigh..* He's so dreamy! Gee Lolie,,, If you keep talkin' like THAT,,,,,you will never get here,,,, for those "courtesy" lift tickets.... and since I am waiting for you,,, ,,before I manifest,, does this mean I will NEVER skydive again????? hahaha jimmeetee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 November 12, 2002 And his 21st birthday party last year was crazy from what I saw of it....Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #13 November 12, 2002 The rate that even the sharpest jumper can absorb information has a limit. I'd be more inclined to trust the person who had been jumping for years as being informed about many different aspects of skydiving. Personally, because of my work schedule, I don't get to jump as much as I'd like, but I do spend a lot of time educating myself about the sport.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lolie 0 #14 November 12, 2002 Yeah, I think half of the appeal is that he's somewhat close to my age, though... there are no guys at the dz who are in my age bracket. (I was told once that guys are supposed to divide their age by two and add seven, and that's how old the girl that they date is supposed to be. He's 22 and I'm 18; perfect! ) Oh, and jimmy: You pay for my plane ticket to NY, and I'll be there tomorrow. See my signature, below. -Miranda you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #15 November 12, 2002 Quote I was told once that guys are supposed to divide their age by two and add seven, and that's how old the girl that they date is supposed to be. He's 22 and I'm 18; perfect! [Blush] I sure hope there's an upper limit to that rule! I'm 47. Do the math Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lolie 0 #16 November 12, 2002 LOL! 80!!!! -Miranda you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #17 November 12, 2002 Lolie,,,, you may be a poor student. but you have a rich sense of humor...... I will work some bigtime overtime,,(just for you..), and check back with ya' when the weather gets warm.....and if I can swing a ticket for you!!!!!(hope you don't mind if I sneak in a skydive or two before then)work hard. play hard, study hard, and then enjoy the benefits that go with it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lolie 0 #18 November 12, 2002 Aww.. for me? It's a deal! -Miranda you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #19 November 12, 2002 Quote I was told once that guys are supposed to divide their age by two and add seven, and that's how old the girl that they date is supposed to be. Are there any 26 year old skychicks out there? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #20 November 12, 2002 It's all apples to oranges. I know people with 2000+ jumps that can't sit fly. I've seen people with 25 jumps that could delta down to a formation far better than me. Bottom line...the number of jumps is not relevant to the skill level. I really get pissed when an organizer or DZO bitches at someone or excludes them because "they don't have enough jumps" before evaluating them!"Slow down! You are too young to be moving that fast!" Old Man Crawfish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jasmin 0 #21 November 12, 2002 Quote Skydiving knowledge... unless the person thats been around for the shorter time lives at the DZ and takes the time to listen to the old timers and read the old Skydivings and Parachutists laying around the DZ.. they will probally be less informed then the jumper thats been around for 3 years. A lot comes down to personal observation skills too. How many newbies can tell you about the Nova? Or about the Crossfire? Capewells? The days when ZP was considered a student killer? hmmm or when drogues on tandems weren't looked upon favourably...when wing climbing, front mounted reserves and para-commanders were the norm?! I've been given a hard time overseas for my (then) low(er) jump numbers, but I've been around dropzones for 20 years,my Dad is a member of the 10,000 club and I only have a D licence from the 6 years I've been jumping!! I am NOT skygod material, but I do know a[i[little about skydivingxj "I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sar911 0 #22 November 13, 2002 Define experience. Does the jumper have 300 one time experiences (say 300 hop-n-pops) or a variety of different types of jumps (RW, Freefly etc.), and landings in different weather conditions, places, planes, balloons, helicopters, night jumps, high altitude etc? Do they have non-jump experiences such as wind tunnel training, coaching etc? Have they taken courses like coach, instructor or become a senior rigger? Now everyone should really be confused. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #23 November 13, 2002 QuoteDefine experience. Does the jumper have 300 one time experiences (say 300 hop-n-pops) or a variety of different types of jumps (RW, Freefly etc.), and landings in different weather conditions, places, planes, balloons, helicopters, night jumps, high altitude etc? Do they have non-jump experiences such as wind tunnel training, coaching etc? Have they taken courses like coach, instructor or become a senior rigger? Now everyone should really be confused. No, I think that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Having 3 years and 300 jumps in the sport could quite possibly make you more "experienced" than the 300 jump/six month jumper. We have the same saying in flying. Do you 1,000 hours experience or do you have 1 hour of experience 1,000 times. Same applies here and you just have to ask questions to find out where someone is. Stop asking questions after "How many jumps you got" definitely doesn't give the whole story. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #24 November 13, 2002 Just like everything else, it depends on what you're looking for in experience. Ability to fly a specific slot in a pool dive? The lotsa-jumps-lately one hands down. A fun jump where things might not go perfectly? Probably the other one. But the person who's been around will have seen more ways to do things, and won't figure that the one way they've seen is either the only way or the best way. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #25 November 13, 2002 QuoteI really get pissed when an organizer or DZO bitches at someone or excludes them because "they don't have enough jumps" before evaluating them! You do understand that some situations are pretty simple don't you? Sometimes the number of jumps a person has can be enough to exclude them from a certain load, e.g. they have 125 jumps and want to get on the 40-way state record load."I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
