base698 1 #1 June 9, 2003 death. If skydiving ever comes up several questions repeat a lot in the slew of stupid ones, but one in particular is sometimes hard to deal with. Has anyone ever died or have you seen anyone die? Anyone in the sport for a long enough time period has had a beer with someone who is no longer with us. In addition you may have even been present when something happened. How do you typically avoid this question or sugar coat it, perhaps by explaining the risks in driving smoking? Other times for me I just out right don't like to talk about it, which is why I hate to talk about skydiving in the first place. Anyway, if that ever comes up how do you handle it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #2 June 9, 2003 After 26 years of skydiving, I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone die. If whuffos are listening, I quietly forget to mention the two that went in while I was in the hangar, or the suicide I saw in the Perris parking lot or the dozens of broken ankles, etc. Then I change the subject to something more cheerful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #3 June 9, 2003 I prefer the stats side. I heard that 17 skydives a year is equivalent in risk to driving 10,000 miles. To wuffos 17 skydives sound like a lot and 10,000 miles doesn't. Then I go back to "so why aren't you skydiving......." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenGriffiths 0 #4 June 9, 2003 QuoteHas anyone ever died or have you seen anyone die? That is the tough question WHUFFO's ask - its a hard one to answer especially when your trying to get them to jump. I usually re-assure them that the chance of your reserve failing in almost zero, and that most people die doing stupid stuff i.e. low turns - which is basically the truth. I don't go into specific numbers though.---------- Ben G Still Sinking :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #5 June 9, 2003 I dont sugar coat it. I tell him the only valid reason to jump out of a plane is if there is an emergency. Anything else, its a risk you take (I think its a B. Booth quote). Dont sugar coat it to yourself either.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #6 June 9, 2003 I ask them why they're not going to die, and can I have some of what they've got? Then I grin and tell them, like I told my mother, that most people die in the hospital, after a debilitating illness and long slow degeneration. If I get to die outside, after doing something I love, having just come from God's playground, I am better off...and then I reassure them it's not my intention to die, but if it happens, it does...just like it's not their intention to die sitting at their desk and stroking out, or getting hit by a drunk driver while walking across the street - but if it happens, it does. Death happens....to everyone. And while I'm here, I am playing 100%... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #7 June 9, 2003 Don't sugar coat it... Tell the truth. Don't lie to them or yourself."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #8 June 9, 2003 QuoteI prefer the stats side. I heard that 17 skydives a year is equivalent in risk to driving 10,000 miles. To wuffos 17 skydives sound like a lot and 10,000 miles doesn't. Then I go back to "so why aren't you skydiving......." Umm, actually the stats don't support your position very well. Consider the following based on USPA statistics: **The 2000 fatality rate was 1/70,130 skydives **The annual domestic fatality rate averaged over ten years is roughly 1/903 members of USPA **Death rate for motor vehicles reported by NSC in 2000 is 0.0156 per 1,000 participants. **Fatality rate for skydivers based on USPA numbers over a ten year period is 1.1 per 1,000 member skydivers. Statistics can be used to tell a wide variety of stories. I actually covered the topic specifically for whuffos in my new book JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy. The book includes tons of statistics and a comparison between driving and skydiving. The chapter on Risk ends with the following paragraph: "Fatal skydiving accidents are relatively rare, but they do occur. You should understand that if you are participating in any high-risk sport, an accident can happen, and you should be prepared for the expense and hardship that may result. Skydiving is an exciting sport, and many of the risks can be controlled with appropriate training, equipment, experience, and well defined procedures, but the risk can never be eliminated." It is wrong to tell whuffos that skydiving isn't dangerous, or to create meaningless stats to tell them that story. Skydiving IS a high risk sport, and we should all understand that. The risk can be reduced, but never eliminated. Two more quick numbers: There are roughly 34,000 member of USPA, and there will be about 34 fatalities this year. Students will be only a tiny percent of those fatalities. Do you still think skydiving is no more dangerous than driving a car? Check out the book and the chapter called "Understanding Risk." JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy is available from many skydiving retailers, Amazon.com, and at many local bookstores. It was published by McGraw-Hill in January 2003. Tom Buchanan AuthorJUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #9 June 9, 2003 >Has anyone ever died or have you seen anyone die? I tell them yes. I've seen three people die; I tried to keep two of them alive long enough to get them to a hospital, but neither one made it. >How do you typically avoid this question or sugar coat it, perhaps by > explaining the risks in driving smoking? Why sugar coat it? Take the opposite. If you wanted to take up smoking, would you want a smoker to 'sugar coat' the risks, and not tell you that he had emphysema and would likely die in a few years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #10 June 9, 2003 QuoteHas anyone ever died or have you seen anyone die? I've been lucky enough not to actually see anyone die. I've been on the DZ when people have died, though. And I'll tell them exactly that if they ask. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #11 June 9, 2003 Like Wendy and others, lucky enough not to have witness any fatalities. But, have known 3 jumpers who died, and was on a DZ when a jumper died (I was on a a plane going up at the time, I think).Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phonics1981 0 #12 June 9, 2003 I'm new to the sport and have only recently passed my AFF but because i'm the only one out of my group of friends to do this, they are all asking me "Why do it? You could die" and the way I see it is that I could die doing anything, crossing the street, going downstairs, anything. Who says that I wont die doing one of those things tomorrow? But if that does happen tomorrow I know that I have enjoyed today because I have jumped. Its better to burn out than fade away. ------------------------------------------------------ "Ive given up on sigs cos I make a mess of them!" ------------------------------------------------------ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Margusja 0 #13 June 9, 2003 My answer is that I know... and I saw 2 man how died... 4km to down... nothing didin't opened... wery bad 1. time I was wuffo... and second time I was complited about 30 jumps... and I thought wery much about future and jumping... And first time after that was wery - wery difficult for me. And I wery much think about this guys... Here they are... http://www.parachute.ee/est/mem.shtml I saw how died first two... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #14 June 9, 2003 **The 2000 fatality rate was 1/70,130 skydives **The annual domestic fatality rate averaged over ten years is roughly 1/903 members of USPA **Death rate for motor vehicles reported by NSC in 2000 is 0.0156 per 1,000 participants. **Fatality rate for skydivers based on USPA numbers over a ten year period is 1.1 per 1,000 member skydivers. QuoteI tell people that skydiving is basically a safe enough sport, but that things can happen. I still hear the old saw that, "the most dangerous part is driving to the drop zone" and I don't believe a word of it. Flying in general is only safer than driving if you're talking about flying on a scheduled airliner. Flying in a private non-scheduled airplane is actually considerably more dangerous than driving (forget where I read that, but supposedly airliners are 20 times safer than cars and cars are 19 times safer than private planes, or something like that). I do tell them that it's safe enough that they shouldn't worry about it and should definitely go make that skydive they always wanted to try and they'll be just fine. But I tell them that if they really want to take up skydiving, that they will lose friends over the years, will probably see it happen sooner or later and that it could just get them in the end. But that we accept that and we jump because it's too beautiful not to. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DexterBase 0 #15 June 10, 2003 Think about what you're doing. You are paying to ride an airplane to 14,000 feet, open the door, and Jump out (deliberately remember) and then you will accelerate to a speed in excess of 100 miles per hour, and the only thing stopping you from hitting the ground is a nylon parachute connected to a bunch of thin lines. Of course there's risk involved. Of course people get hurt and die. There's definitely a chance that something might happen to you. I tell them that the risks are manageable through proper planning, training, and preparation. For me, the risks are greatly outweighed by the friends I make and the experiences I share with them. Risk is a personal matter everyone needs to justify on their own. Do I think I'm going to die skydiving? No Way. BASE jumping maybe, but the rewards I get from that exceed even skydiving... It's all personal... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #16 June 10, 2003 Quote**Death rate for motor vehicles reported by NSC in 2000 is 0.0156 per 1,000 participants. Sorry - I'm no statistician but what is a motor vehicle participant? What does that mean and how does that extrapolate to 10,000 miles of average journeys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites txblondie 0 #17 June 10, 2003 I'm new, and I haven't witnessed any fatalities, but there have been a few since I started... When people bring up the danger, I admit that I know there's a possibility. But I also tell them the truth, that I typically feel safer jumping out of the airplane than I do driving my car down the freeway. I tell them that at least I know if something were to happen to me when I was jumping, it would be because I f***ed up, while if I'm driving on the freeway, I've got a thousand other maniacs who are in a bad mood or tired or whatever that I have to worry about! I don't know that it entirely makes sense, but that is how I feel. ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #18 June 10, 2003 Quoteit would be because I f***ed up God I'm full of other people's quotes these days: You can do every thing right, and still end up dead.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites txblondie 0 #19 June 10, 2003 You can do every thing right, and still end up dead. ******************************** God knows that's the truth!!! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrel 0 #20 June 10, 2003 I have lost a soccer coach, brother, wife, and recently 2 skydiving friends (both DZOs)...after the hurt is gone, i tell people that the older you get, the more people you know will die. sounds a bit morbid, but mathematically its true. it just hurts more when they go "before thier time" as in, before "we" expect them to go. i miss them all, all the time. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #21 June 11, 2003 To quote The Flaming Lips... "Do you realize... that everyone you know someday will die, That instead of saying all your goodbyes, let them know you realize life goes fast, its hard to make the good things last..." The way I've explained it to those willing to listen is that its better to die doing something that you love rather then dieing when you slip down some stairs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites squirrel 0 #22 June 11, 2003 i agree fully. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beowulf 1 #23 June 11, 2003 Tragedy is not dying, its not living life to it's fullest. Everyone I know will die. So treat your loved ones as if they could die the next day. They could die any number of ways. It's a dangerous world out there. I skydive to enjoy life. It does add to the risk in my life, but I accept that. We can't be afraid to live our dreams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiverRick 0 #24 June 11, 2003 If you skydive you are going to die. If you don't skydive you are going to die. Have a nice day Rick never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpy 0 #25 June 11, 2003 If someone asks me seriously then i'll explain to them that yes it is a risky sport and you could die but then you could die doing anything. If someone asks me thinking its a humourous matter then I don't even bother trying to educate them.. its not worth it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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DexterBase 0 #15 June 10, 2003 Think about what you're doing. You are paying to ride an airplane to 14,000 feet, open the door, and Jump out (deliberately remember) and then you will accelerate to a speed in excess of 100 miles per hour, and the only thing stopping you from hitting the ground is a nylon parachute connected to a bunch of thin lines. Of course there's risk involved. Of course people get hurt and die. There's definitely a chance that something might happen to you. I tell them that the risks are manageable through proper planning, training, and preparation. For me, the risks are greatly outweighed by the friends I make and the experiences I share with them. Risk is a personal matter everyone needs to justify on their own. Do I think I'm going to die skydiving? No Way. BASE jumping maybe, but the rewards I get from that exceed even skydiving... It's all personal... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #16 June 10, 2003 Quote**Death rate for motor vehicles reported by NSC in 2000 is 0.0156 per 1,000 participants. Sorry - I'm no statistician but what is a motor vehicle participant? What does that mean and how does that extrapolate to 10,000 miles of average journeys? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #17 June 10, 2003 I'm new, and I haven't witnessed any fatalities, but there have been a few since I started... When people bring up the danger, I admit that I know there's a possibility. But I also tell them the truth, that I typically feel safer jumping out of the airplane than I do driving my car down the freeway. I tell them that at least I know if something were to happen to me when I was jumping, it would be because I f***ed up, while if I'm driving on the freeway, I've got a thousand other maniacs who are in a bad mood or tired or whatever that I have to worry about! I don't know that it entirely makes sense, but that is how I feel. ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #18 June 10, 2003 Quoteit would be because I f***ed up God I'm full of other people's quotes these days: You can do every thing right, and still end up dead.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
txblondie 0 #19 June 10, 2003 You can do every thing right, and still end up dead. ******************************** God knows that's the truth!!! ***************************************** Blondes do have more fun! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #20 June 10, 2003 I have lost a soccer coach, brother, wife, and recently 2 skydiving friends (both DZOs)...after the hurt is gone, i tell people that the older you get, the more people you know will die. sounds a bit morbid, but mathematically its true. it just hurts more when they go "before thier time" as in, before "we" expect them to go. i miss them all, all the time. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #21 June 11, 2003 To quote The Flaming Lips... "Do you realize... that everyone you know someday will die, That instead of saying all your goodbyes, let them know you realize life goes fast, its hard to make the good things last..." The way I've explained it to those willing to listen is that its better to die doing something that you love rather then dieing when you slip down some stairs.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #22 June 11, 2003 i agree fully. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #23 June 11, 2003 Tragedy is not dying, its not living life to it's fullest. Everyone I know will die. So treat your loved ones as if they could die the next day. They could die any number of ways. It's a dangerous world out there. I skydive to enjoy life. It does add to the risk in my life, but I accept that. We can't be afraid to live our dreams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiverRick 0 #24 June 11, 2003 If you skydive you are going to die. If you don't skydive you are going to die. Have a nice day Rick never pull low......unless you are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpy 0 #25 June 11, 2003 If someone asks me seriously then i'll explain to them that yes it is a risky sport and you could die but then you could die doing anything. If someone asks me thinking its a humourous matter then I don't even bother trying to educate them.. its not worth it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
